GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #10

[Mrs. Gladden]

We all know that affairs are a thing of the heart. They're thrilling. They're emotional. They're fulfilling. Even the danger is another level of excitement. I've known too many couples that have gone through the highs and then the turmoil that comes when it ends. Yes, a 19 year old is susceptible.

I can understand how it happened. I can even understand the little lies, the leading on, the we'll-be-together-forever. With all that said, what I do not understand is how an affair and a pregnancy led to murder. What happened that made him feel his only out was her death?

And, something else that has bothered me all along is how much time they were together that day. He met her at 10:30. She had no idea these were her last few hours. He did. They drove an hour and a half and probably talked along the way. Maybe they argued. Maybe he just let her be happy. They arrived at the mine area around noon. Did they have a picnic lunch? He knew he was going to kill her...the plan was set in place. How long did he wait? He had to leave the area around 2:30 or so to be back on base by 4:00 pm. That leaves a 2 - 2 1/2 hr period. We know the murder happened then, but what else? Was there small talk while he was waiting for the opportunity? Why did he go through with it?

I don't think I would understand even if I knew the truth.

 

[DocBrew]

BBM

<snipped by me>



^ That doesn't sound, even a little, like victim blaming?

There's a theory in law and other disciplines that refers to 'proximate causation', which essentially can be stated as 'but for' a preceding event occurring, the latter - and damaging - event would not have occurred. That's what I got out of that passage. Not victim blaming. 'But for' the affair with (who would ultimately be) a madman, she would not have been murdered. That's a valid statement.

JMO

 

[necco]

I don't understand why so many think NL is the mastermind behind this, that she wears the pants. CL is a marine. He had an affair. The man clearly has a mind of his own. Is NL involved? Maybe. I tend to lean towards probably even. But it almost seems like some folks are almost absolving CL of some of the blame because they think NL is controlling. If he did this because NL wanted him to, that almost makes him worse in my opinion because that means he killed Erin when he didn't even necessarily think he "needed to" or "should" do so.

 

[shadetree44]

Has someone figured out how far it is from where EC's car was parked to the mine site? Is it possible that CL picked up EC at 7 am in the JEEP, met NL (who was in the red car), took her to EC's car to gather stuff at 10:30, and what MB saw was NL getting back into the red car after gathering things??

Thanks RSC, check my post on sheet 5 on this thread. This exactly how I have it figured. There are other possibilities, but this is the MOST logical.

 

[Jambri]

We all know that affairs are a thing of the heart. They're thrilling. They're emotional. They're fulfilling. Even the danger is another level of excitement. I've known too many couples that have gone through the highs and then the turmoil that comes when it ends. Yes, a 19 year old is susceptible.

I can understand how it happened. I can even understand the little lies, the leading on, the we'll-be-together-forever. With all that said, what I do not understand is how an affair and a pregnancy led to murder. What happened that made him feel his only out was her death?

And, something else that has bothered me all along is how much time they were together that day. He met her at 10:30. She had no idea these were her last few hours. He did. They drove an hour and a half and probably talked along the way. Maybe they argued. Maybe he just let her be happy. They arrived at the mine area around noon. Did they have a picnic lunch? He knew he was going to kill her...the plan was set in place. How long did he wait? He had to leave the area around 2:30 or so to be back on base by 4:00 pm. That leaves a 2 - 2 1/2 hr period. We know the murder happened then, but what else? Was there small talk while he was waiting for the opportunity? Why did he go through with it?

I don't think I would understand even if I knew the truth.

Exactly. How do you converse with someone knowing you are going to kill them? How do you get up in the morning with the thought that this is the day? I just cannot fathom that. I don't even want to think about how he did it because it quite frankly makes me physically ill.

 

[BRRI]

There's a theory in law and other disciplines that refers to 'proximate causation', which essentially can be stated as 'but for' a preceding event occurring, the latter - and damaging - event would not have occurred. That's what I got out of that passage. Not victim blaming. 'But for' the affair with (who would ultimately be) a madman, she would not have been murdered. That's a valid statement.

JMO

Yes, I understand that. But, it serves no purpose here. Let's not forget her friends and family likely read here, as do Jon's. I can't see either side needing to have the obvious pointed out in such a way, especially after getting the news this weekend. Yes, she had an affair. Yes, that was not nice to do to Jon. Yes, it probably wasn't the best of judgement, and ultimately she paid the price for it. We know the end state. We don't really need to keep repeating that she was wrong. It does not have anything to do with motive, and all it looks like to me is that an innocent girl who made a mistake is getting shamed for it, even after she had the worst possible thing happen to her. We need to keep the blame on CL, and stop pointing out what Erin should have or could have done differently. We don't need to refer to her actions as "despicable" or any other derogatory term. JMO.

 

[la2cabo]

If my husband had done what NL's husband did, I would get as far away from him as fast as I could as soon as I found out about it, not help him. I'd be afraid I'd be next on the list. Even if he never had gotten arrested and tried for it, how do you turn your back or fall asleep on a man you know is capable of something like that?

He should have been toast with her as soon as she found out about the affair and pregnancy, let alone the murder. IMO.

Personally, I would have been done with him as well. However, I'm an extremely independent person and I know I can take care of myself and my child if I need to. We need to remember he is the father of their child and from what we know, the primary bread winner. Maybe she really isn't the strong one that she kind of portrays. She may wear the pants in the family but is not a very secure, independent person. Maybe she was worried about raising their child on her own and being able to financially support them. Or maybe she loooooves him. Eeew - I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Sorry.

 

[Fairy1]

I don't think any disparaging remarks are being taken out of context. I think they're being interpreted exactly as they are intended.

I also don't believe Jon's "dirty laundry" is being aired. If anything, Erin's alleged transgressions have been aired nearly since the beginning when the media reported on her "lover" and the possibility the baby she was carrying MAY have been his. I never did see how that was really important to the search for her.

We have no idea whether JC knew about the "affair" before Erin went missing. And, personally, I have no idea whether he is a "saint." I feel pretty confident he's probably a good guy, but I really don't know.

Regardless of anyone's opinions on extra-marital affairs, countless men and women engage in them daily and do not become victims of cold-blooded murder as a result. No one has the right to take the life of another human being. Or beings, as may be the case here.

JMOHO

 

[cluciano63]

There's a theory in law and other disciplines that refers to 'proximate causation', which essentially can be stated as 'but for' a preceding event occurring, the latter - and damaging - event would not have occurred. That's what I got out of that passage. Not victim blaming. 'But for' the affair with (who would ultimately be) a madman, she would not have been murdered. That's a valid statement.



JMO

Also true in Heather's case, sadly.

 

[cluciano63]

Yes, I understand that. But, it serves no purpose here. Let's not forget her friends and family likely read here, as do Jon's. I can't see either side needing to have the obvious pointed out in such a way, especially after getting the news this weekend. Yes, she had an affair. Yes, that was not nice to do to Jon. Yes, it probably wasn't the best of judgement, and ultimately she paid the price for it. We know the end state. We don't really need to keep repeating that she was wrong. It does not have anything to do with motive, and all it looks like to me is that an innocent girl who made a mistake is getting shamed for it, even after she had the worst possible thing happen to her. We need to keep the blame on CL, and stop pointing out what Erin should have or could have done differently. We don't need to refer to her actions as "despicable" or any other derogatory term. JMO.

It DOES have to do with motive, Imo. CL killed her because he did not want affair/pregnancy to be become known. No other reason possible, Imo. It is impossible for me to think that without an affair, Erin would still be deceased. As far as the reasons for an affair, morals, etc...no. But motive? Yes.

Jmo

 

[Meemaw12]

I don't understand why so many think NL is the mastermind behind this, that she wears the pants. CL is a marine. He had an affair. The man clearly has a mind of his own. Is NL involved? Maybe. I tend to lean towards probably even. But it almost seems like some folks are almost absolving CL of some of the blame because they think NL is controlling. If he did this because NL wanted him to, that almost makes him worse in my opinion because that means he killed Erin when he didn't even necessarily think he "needed to" or "should" do so.

Honestly don't know what to think, I do think about NL and JC finding out about the affair living on the same floor in the same building. How would I react to learning my husband was having an affair with not only our friend but our next door neighbor and having to live next to her for 3 to 5 months, depending on when NL found out.
(I do believe the next door neighbor rumor that she caught CL and EC together and told NL and JC.) Emotionally hurt, then mad as heck. Maybe even Cast Iron Skillet mad if I chose to stay with him.

I know nothing about any of these folks, I can't imagine why a young guy would even think to kill someone, let alone someone he had an affair with. It makes no sense, there has to be something missing we don't know about. I mean either EC wanted CL and he didn't want her, He wanted her and she didn't want him. He was afraid of NL like EC told her friend in TN, but why would he kill her? I just don't understand.

The facts are he planned it and carried it out. I don't know why. He alone is responsible for his actions. He had choices, made poor ones and will pay the price.

Lots of things go through my mind about this case. I will never know the truth most likely, but it's sad and senseless. That's all I know.

All my opinion only.

 

[Sulamith]

What's the general feeling among everyone as to why this guy did this? What's the motivation ? Bizarre.

IMO, EC was not discreet about their affair. I wonder if she was threatening to go to his superior and try to get him in trouble? Possibly causing him trouble right before he got out of the Marine Corps. However, this article states that adultery is hard to prove : http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/Ne...40/Article/94587/adultery-tough-to-prove.aspx OTOH, CL was not making a career out of the Marines so maybe he did not care all that much who she told about the affair.

I wonder if consensual oral and anal sodomy is still against the law in the military? I hope not but I only bring that up because when my husband was in the Army way back in the '80s it was and a few guys were doing a bit of time in military jail because their wives got mad at them after giving them a BJ and reported them. Maybe some people were pulling my leg! When we were in the Army, there was a lot of drug use and affairs. Cheap beer on base. One time, the troops were entertained by strippers. On the government dime. Thank goodness that all changed. It was a wild time over in Germany.

I wonder if CL was on some type of illegal drugs (steroids?) that skewed his thinking. If she was pg, there was a chance that it was her husband's. CL did not even know for certain it was his. You are right, the whole thing is bizarre. Sometimes I wonder if NL killed her in a jealous rage. MOO

 

[Fairy1]

MB was very certain it was a red sedan. He stated that more than once asked. There was one in a video outside the apartments. I'm not up on the newer vehicles as they all appear the same to me. If anyone can ID the model in that video, please post. Thanks. The red car and time line will give us a good idea who was there @ 10:30. I have always thought EC was not there during the exchange. Judging by what we know now, I think she was already gone (in the mine) by then. Opinions??

I agree - Erin was already gone by the time of the sighting. But it should help to establish the timeline and possibly determine whether others were involved - knowingly or otherwise. We know the red car doesn't belong to the Lee's, so who does it belong to? And if Erin's car was moved between 7 AM and 10:30 AM - someone else had her car keys.

IMO

 

[BRRI]

It DOES have to do with motive, Imo. CL killed her because he did not want affair/pregnancy to be become known. No other reason possible, Imo. It is impossible for me to think that without an affair, Erin would still be deceased. As far as the reasons for an affair, morals, etc...no. But motive? Yes.

Jmo

Looks like the original post was removed, so I guess it was considered victim blaming. Again, I don't have an issue discussing motive. I do have an issue when I see the victim being passed off in a negative light, having her actions called despicable, etc. But, I will lay off this topic now. It just really rubbed me wrong, that's all.

 

[necco]

Proximate causation is a slippery slope and can be manipulated to serve many needs, for hyperbolic example:

If Jon hadn't enlisted
If the Marines hadn't transferred him to 29 Palms
If the housing staff hadn't put them next door to CL
If EC's car hadn't worked
If EC's and JC's parents hadn't moved to Oak Ridge
If Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor
If CL's parents had just played pinochle instead the night he was conceived
If NL's grandparents had argued the night her mother was conceived

I've just managed to use proximate causation to blame JC, the Marine Corps, a housing clerk, EC's mechanic, EC and JC's parents, Emperor Hirohito, CL's parents and NL's grandparents.

It goes to motive, sure, but nothing Erin did caused her death, proximately or otherwise. CL caused her death. Plain and simple.

 

[Advocate4]

Why would CL have been afraid that NL would take his child away if she found out about an affair (with/without a resulting pregnancy)? Having an affair is not a reason for a court to refuse a parent liberal visitation rights with children after a divorce.

 

[cluciano63]

I could totally see telling my best friend I was not happy in my new marriage and had met someone new, and may be celebrating a pregnancy with him (the new man), and thinking about scrapping my unhappy marriage, especially when I was 19 years old and newly on my own and dealing with feelings from a recent miscarriage with my current partner that caused a rift between us (just speculating, of course, but rumors abounded Erin told people she wasn't happy in her marriage, and she had an affair with CL supposedly, for a reason (there were problems between her and JC)). It's a bit of a stretch for me with all the evidence and affidavits, etc. to assume she wasn't really pregnant, but I guess time will tell...

As I said, I may have too much faith in forensic science, but I am having trouble believing pregnancy could not be confirmed fairly quickly when murder is involved, but JMO.

But I still would not have told anyone at that stage about an affair, that is just me, but very glad Erin had someone close enough to her to confide in, as it likely will help convict her killer to a very large extent. And at times like this, I am happy texting, etc exists.

Jmo

 

[phantomthought]

So what's up with the shell casing.Did EC pick in up as a souvenir of her "special day or because she saw what was coming.Did CL throw it down there in some sick marking of his kill or is he simply the stupidest man to walk the surface of the earth.

 

[BRRI]

IMO, EC was not discreet about their affair. I wonder if she was threatening to go to his superior and try to get him in trouble? Possibly causing him trouble right before he got out of the Marine Corps. However, this article states that adultery is hard to prove : http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/Ne...40/Article/94587/adultery-tough-to-prove.aspx OTOH, CL was not making a career out of the Marines so maybe he did not care all that much who she told about the affair.

I wonder if consensual oral and anal sodomy is still against the law in the military? I hope not but I only bring that up because when my husband was in the Army way back in the '80s it was and a few guys were doing a bit of time in military jail because their wives got mad at them after giving them a BJ and reported them. Maybe some people were pulling my leg! When we were in the Army, there was a lot of drug use and affairs. Cheap beer on base. One time, the troops were entertained by strippers. On the government dime. Thank goodness that all changed. It was a wild time over in Germany.

I wonder if CL was on some type of illegal drugs (steroids?) that skewed his thinking. If she was pg, there was a chance that it was her husband's. CL did not even know for certain it was his. You are right, the whole thing is bizarre. Sometimes I wonder if NL killed her in a jealous rage. MOO

BBM

You would be surprised at what still goes on! But to answer your question, sodomy is not still banned:

As for the U.S. Armed Forces, the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces has ruled that the Lawrence v. Texas decision applies to Article 125, severely narrowing the previous ban on sodomy. In both United States v. Stirewalt and United States v. Marcum, the court ruled that the "conduct [consensual sodomy] falls within the liberty interest identified by the Supreme Court,"[26] but went on to say that despite the application of Lawrence to the military, Article 125 can still be upheld in cases where there are "factors unique to the military environment" that would place the conduct "outside any protected liberty interest recognized in Lawrence."[27] Examples of such factors include rape, fraternization, public sexual behavior, or any other factors that would adversely affect good order and discipline. Convictions for consensual sodomy have been overturned in military courts under Lawrence in both United States v. Meno[28] and United States v. Bullock.[29]

The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014 enacted in December 2013 repealed the ban on consensual sodomy found in Article 125.[30]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States#Military

 

[rosesfromangels]

So what's up with the shell casing.Did EC pick in up as a souvenir of her "special day or because she saw what was coming.Did CL throw it down there in some sick marking of his kill or is he simply the stupidest man to walk the surface of the earth.

Any way you position it, it is ill fated and horrific at so many levels.