Found Deceased CA - Erin Valenti, 33, from Utah, en-route from Palo Alto to San Jose, 7 Oct 2019 #2

[katydid23]

I am not leaning towards natural causes at this time, compared to an ingestion of drugs, possibly accidental.

I think that if she was at the disoriented portion of sepsis, she would have had some physical symptoms in the previous hours. In many cases, sepsis is a bodily reaction to an infection or an illness. In some cases it is not, but then it is usually found in infants or the elderly, with weak immune systems and prexisting illnesses.

I think if she had been feeling ill, she would have stopped into one of the zillions of urgent care clinics in the Bay Area. Or mentioned it to her husband or family or one of her friends she met with.

I think it is more likely that she voluntarily, or forcibly or accidentally ingested a strong edible or a psychotropic--- Or a 'high tech' supplement that she had a bad reaction to. And that created a perfect storm , of mania and disorientation/confusion leading to total exhaustion, and she passed out ---but then was dehydrated and became overheated in the vehicle?

 

[MsFacetious]

I will be in town on the 26th and was considering going to the memorial. It sounds like an event that might be quite uplifting to attend. I'm uncertain if I will be available though as a few things have come up this week.

I do hope there are answers. No answers is the hardest.

 

[kittythehare]

Her reported nonsensical behavior doesn't signal that drugs are possible here to you?

Yes of course they are possible.
Against that , however is her husband and family's statement that she was a non drug user.
also against that is her hobby of mountain climbing , antithetical to drug abusing.
But I have already explored all that in lots of posts and i have too explored drugs, pathological and illicit.

There are multitudes of physical reasons for decreasing and progressive states of consciousness and I'm giving those precedence in my final analysis because that in my judgement is both reasonable and sensible. I have already explored these in depth and posted my findings.

Suicide is also a possibility. @Seattle1 has made a strong case for that rationale and did it with compassion empathy and kindness. That includes all methodologies including overdose. of course it is a strong possibility too.

EV has died and that's a tragedy.
Her autopsy may be inconclusive due to the delay and conditions in which she died before being discovered.
Many young adults tragically die from un diagnosed pathological conditions and many of those conditions present with sudden onset confusion ad disorientation.

 

[UKslueth2018]

I am not leaning towards natural causes at this time, compared to an ingestion of drugs, possibly accidental.

I think that if she was at the disoriented portion of sepsis, she would have had some physical symptoms in the previous hours. In many cases, sepsis is a bodily reaction to an infection or an illness. In some cases it is not, but then it is usually found in infants or the elderly, with weak immune systems and prexisting illnesses.

I think if she had been feeling ill, she would have stopped into one of the zillions of urgent care clinics in the Bay Area. Or mentioned it to her husband or family or one of her friends she met with.

I think it is more likely that she voluntarily, or forcibly or accidentally ingested a strong edible or a psychotropic--- Or a 'high tech' supplement that she had a bad reaction to. And that created a perfect storm , of mania and disorientation/confusion leading to total exhaustion, and she passed out ---but then was dehydrated and became overheated in the vehicle?

As someone who has had sepsis, I find it hard to see how she would have been able to drive and hold conversations. The confusion and physical shakes were something I would never wish on anyone xx

 

[10ofRods]

So septicaemia, meningitis hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, aneurysmal ruptues coronary artery disease and a million known vascular or infectious causes of disease either environmental or congenital undiagnosed abnormalities tells one nothing?

I think my post was understood by most, because I have repeated it a million times, most likely..
Pedantics much?

Even if there were forensic evidence of any of these (and remember, you argued that the body would be too decomposed for standard forensic tests), then...there would still be reason to send tissue to toxicology (because the same processes that end up in any of the causes of death you mention can also parallel processes related to toxins of various kinds).

Aneurysms can be caused by solvents, for example. Surely, one would want to rule out such an event?

If congenital abnormalities are found, a medical examiner would still run toxicology tests, because toxins affect the rate at which any previously unpresented medical condition would present. Not sure why any of us should second guess the professionals (medical examiner and team). The family would surely want to know whether the congenital defect was de novo or inherited (and how it manifests - as the same chemicals produced by disease processes can turn up in general toxicology runs). There might be a need to test secondary tissues (which is done behind the scenes for obvious reasons).

 

[kittythehare]

Even if there were forensic evidence of any of these (and remember, you argued that the body would be too decomposed for standard forensic tests), then...there would still be reason to send tissue to toxicology (because the same processes that end up in any of the causes of death you mention can also parallel processes related to toxins of various kinds).

Aneurysms can be caused by solvents, for example. Surely, one would want to rule out such an event?

If congenital abnormalities are found, a medical examiner would still run toxicology tests, because toxins affect the rate at which any previously unpresented medical condition would present. Not sure why any of us should second guess the professionals (medical examiner and team). The family would surely want to know whether the congenital defect was de novo or inherited (and how it manifests - as the same chemicals produced by disease processes can turn up in general toxicology runs). There might be a need to test secondary tissues (which is done behind the scenes for obvious reasons).

If you go back a few pages you will find the links I posted from authentic sources regarding the challenges posed by bodies in various states of decomposition.
In the post above my reference to natural meant pathological organic states not arising from artificial stimuli such as drugs or suicide/ self induced.
I hope that is clear now.

 

[10ofRods]

If you go back a few pages you will find the links I posted from authentic sources regarding the challenges posed by bodies in various states of decomposition.
In the post above my reference to natural meant pathological organic states not arising from artificial stimuli such as drugs or suicide/ self induced.
I hope that is clear now.

Of course there are challenges. But the body was in one place, there will be fluids in the car, all of it is analyzable and forensics are better and better. Your article on post-mortem pharmacology is from 2008. The field is developing at a rate that requires new studies every 6-12 months.

One thing Santa Clara County does have is exceedingly capable medical examiners (plural) and access to consultants to be even more granular. I've seen cases where tissue samples were sent round for months after the initial toxicology reports (resulting in further data about what was going on). These cases are not all potential suicides (or homicides) but suspicious deaths.

The very latest techniques are sometimes quite arcane and it takes a while for journals to catch up (journals are usually in publication a year before they are issued).

Here's an article from 2018 on a promising new technique for detecting insulin levels:

Evaluation of the usefulness of the immunoradiometric method for post-mortem measurement of insulin concentration in the intraocular fluid: preliminary results

Intraocular fluid may still be available, due to the fact that the body wasn't in water or moved around. It doesn't have to be in a hyperfluid state, it's my understanding that a very small swab of the available intraocular area is enough. However, I'm no expert on this technique. I'm just pointing out that the field is rapidly changing and in this case note that in cases of potential suicide, ruling out an insulin disturbance is considered important. Regular techniques of insulin detection have not been sensitive enough.

I should also mention that extensive lab panels are not limited to detection of pharmaceuticals. Much else can be learned these days (if the investigator wants to get a pinpoint on cause of death):

This technique:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.analchem.9b01443

(still not widely used but certainly available) is believed to be accurate for time of death for up to 15 days. Erin's death was well within that.

Being able to do more with persons who didn't die in the hospital is a big frontier in medical and anthropological forensics. This last technique, just above, is novel but not all that complicated. Again, researchers posit that 15 days is still possible for this technique.

That article is from May, 2019. My experience of medical examiners in Santa Clara County is that they are very much up-to-date on the literature.

 

[Trebor5591]

There might be a need to test secondary tissues (which is done behind the scenes for obvious reasons).

What does this sentence mean in plain English? What are secondary tissues in human beings (internet says they relate to plants)? Why is it obvious that testing is done "behind the scenes"? Thanks for clarifying.

 

[10ofRods]

What does this sentence mean in plain English? What are secondary tissues in human beings (internet says they relate to plants)? Why is it obvious that testing is done "behind the scenes"? Thanks for clarifying.

I'm sorry. Should have said secondary and tertiary tests to tissues. Typing too fast in between classes. I was trying to include tissues that have been processed (such as to extract DNA or GABA or another agonist or even a part of a cell like a specific receptor).

Tissues include cells or cellular parts, as well. There's lots of stuff to send out for further analysis, but only if the local ME has the budget and deems it important. This seems like the kind of case where they'd want to be sure. It's also possible (I guess) that some of the tests of this type would aid in establishing possible suicide.

They should secondary-test tissues, IMO. And to do that, they sometimes need to use processes to transform human tissue into tiny, non-naturally occurring bits.

I said "behind the scenes" because ME's will usually say "Yep, we're waiting for toxicology reports." They will not say, "We're also waiting on "receptor mediated G1 site testing in brain tissue" (Don't quote me, I might have the G tag wrong, and I doubt they'd go for that type of test in this case - although the results would be interesting; sometimes the results never get used in the final report, but the ME will still run the test, wait for the test, and then publish the results of the tests that were actually used).

A negative test is a disappointment, but sometimes tests turn out to be positive for results that weren't anticipated. We don't know Erin's brain chemistry at her time of death - it's possible that receptor tests would show something. I doubt the ME's more practical viewpoint would agree with my more academic one, but if this were a different kind of case, I bet they would do that type of testing.

 

[kittythehare]

Of course there are challenges. But the body was in one place, there will be fluids in the car, all of it is analyzable and forensics are better and better. Your article on post-mortem pharmacology is from 2008. The field is developing at a rate that requires new studies every 6-12 months.

One thing Santa Clara County does have is exceedingly capable medical examiners (plural) and access to consultants to be even more granular. I've seen cases where tissue samples were sent round for months after the initial toxicology reports (resulting in further data about what was going on). These cases are not all potential suicides (or homicides) but suspicious deaths.

The very latest techniques are sometimes quite arcane and it takes a while for journals to catch up (journals are usually in publication a year before they are issued).

Here's an article from 2018 on a promising new technique for detecting insulin levels:

Evaluation of the usefulness of the immunoradiometric method for post-mortem measurement of insulin concentration in the intraocular fluid: preliminary results

Intraocular fluid may still be available, due to the fact that the body wasn't in water or moved around. It doesn't have to be in a hyperfluid state, it's my understanding that a very small swab of the available intraocular area is enough. However, I'm no expert on this technique. I'm just pointing out that the field is rapidly changing and in this case note that in cases of potential suicide, ruling out an insulin disturbance is considered important. Regular techniques of insulin detection have not been sensitive enough.

I should also mention that extensive lab panels are not limited to detection of pharmaceuticals. Much else can be learned these days (if the investigator wants to get a pinpoint on cause of death):

This technique:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.analchem.9b01443

(still not widely used but certainly available) is believed to be accurate for time of death for up to 15 days. Erin's death was well within that.

Being able to do more with persons who didn't die in the hospital is a big frontier in medical and anthropological forensics. This last technique, just above, is novel but not all that complicated. Again, researchers posit that 15 days is still possible for this technique.

That article is from May, 2019. My experience of medical examiners in Santa Clara County is that they are very much up-to-date on the literature.

I knew my article was dated but I chose to share it anyway because it was so comprehensive. I specifically, and mistakenly searched for challenges in a 7 day old corpse found in a closed environment... Thanks for finding it and reading it.
Good links you present in this post... do you reckon the outlook is somewhat brighter for a clearer analysis than that already presented in the 2008 analysis?
Do you think cause of death can actually be determined based upon all available info?
Are we likely to receive answers?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I am not leaning towards natural causes at this time, compared to an ingestion of drugs, possibly accidental.

I think that if she was at the disoriented portion of sepsis, she would have had some physical symptoms in the previous hours. In many cases, sepsis is a bodily reaction to an infection or an illness. In some cases it is not, but then it is usually found in infants or the elderly, with weak immune systems and prexisting illnesses.

I think if she had been feeling ill, she would have stopped into one of the zillions of urgent care clinics in the Bay Area. Or mentioned it to her husband or family or one of her friends she met with.

I think it is more likely that she voluntarily, or forcibly or accidentally ingested a strong edible or a psychotropic--- Or a 'high tech' supplement that she had a bad reaction to. And that created a perfect storm , of mania and disorientation/confusion leading to total exhaustion, and she passed out ---but then was dehydrated and became overheated in the vehicle?

I kind of agree with you re: sepsis. I apparently had pnuemonia (unbeknownst to me, I just thought I had a cold). That turned into sepsis and I ultimately went into septic shock and ended up being in a coma for a month as well as having my heart stop a few times. Anyway, I remember speaking to the nurse at the ER while still conscious and she was asking me what month it was. I was SUPER adamant it was May. I swore that to her up and down, but in actuality, it was November. So confusion is certainly possible.

 

[10ofRods]

I knew my article was dated but I chose to share it anyway because it was so comprehensive. I specifically, and mistakenly searched for challenges in a 7 day old corpse found in a closed environment... Thanks for finding it and reading it.
Good links you present in this post... do you reckon the outlook is somewhat brighter for a clearer analysis than that already presented in the 2008 analysis?
Do you think cause of death can actually be determined based upon all available info?
Are we likely to receive answers?

I think they may be able to establish a time of death. If no drugs are found in her car, they will definitely search for unusual drugs in her system (and I think that it’s possible there still may be evidence/metabolites). I don’t know the threshold for this particular ME to call something (for example) “drug overdose,” because they really would need evidence from certain tissues.

The autopsy will have more data than the death certificate and I’m sure the family will have a copy of that (I do not know what the current law is for obtaining autopsy reports, but I do know that not too long ago, Santa Clara county would provide it for a fee (And the press routinely would get them in cases like this).

If they do send out for more testing, the autopsy might then be appended without public notice, so...someone here would have to be diligent in ordering another copy say, six months out, because journalists aren’t going to follow it that long. Heck, it’s possible that only the family will see the actual autopsy (and various officials in LE).

 

[kittythehare]

I think they may be able to establish a time of death. If no drugs are found in her car, they will definitely search for unusual drugs in her system (and I think that it’s possible there still may be evidence/metabolites). I don’t know the threshold for this particular ME to call something (for example) “drug overdose,” because they really would need evidence from certain tissues.

The autopsy will have more data than the death certificate and I’m sure the family will have a copy of that (I do not know what the current law is for obtaining autopsy reports, but I do know that not too long ago, Santa Clara county would provide it for a fee (And the press routinely would get them in cases like this).

If they do send out for more testing, the autopsy might then be appended without public notice, so...someone here would have to be diligent in ordering another copy say, six months out, because journalists aren’t going to follow it that long. Heck, it’s possible that only the family will see the actual autopsy (and various officials in LE).

what are the chances of isolating a bacterial cause 5-7 days post mortem? If she died Monday night, discovered Saturday, autopsy immediately or fridge until Monday? 5 days out of fridge closed container, similar to coffin?

 

[10ofRods]

I think they could definitely locate a bacterial cause at 5-7 post mortem. It's interesting you're thinking that way, because I'm reviewing a case involving a death via sepsis (and the person's demise was really rapid onset and it involved psychosis-like statements and hardly any complaints about pain, even though in theory, it should have been more painful). It's a case that a friend (who is both a psychiatrist and a pathologist) just wants to discuss. He's got theories about Substance P and he also wants to be able to figure out ways of detecting certain specific biochemical states in the brain without the person having to be dead (he thinks there are ways of using saliva, tears and also...oddly, smell tests...)

I bet they did the autopsy immediately, but of course it's possible there was refrigeration involved.

Temps up there were pretty warm (but not at night). She might have died during Tuesday, to my way of thinking.

 

[10ofRods]

If you go back a few pages you will find the links I posted from authentic sources regarding the challenges posed by bodies in various states of decomposition.
In the post above my reference to natural meant pathological organic states not arising from artificial stimuli such as drugs or suicide/ self induced.
I hope that is clear now.

Of course there are challenges. But the body was in one place, there will be fluids in the car, all of it is analyzable and forensics are better and better.

Although CA has some very liberal public record laws, I don't see the autopsy being shared in media unless family seek action against SJPD. (Not that media wouldn't have access). MOO

Media (and others) have access. Media doesn't usually publish the whole report. Like WS, most newspapers have (fairly restrictive) codes regarding what can be said (lawsuits, maybe?) However, depending on the editor, a lot of details can make their way into a story (if in fact, in this case, the paper follows up later - we shall see, I'm assuming they will, but in SoCal, it's not always the case that newspapers follow up on such stories).

 

[10ofRods]

Agree. I also believe many meds today are often viewed as normal as taking a daily vitamin. For example, if somebody has been taking birth control and anti-depressant since before you met 15 years ago, I don't think they are thinking of this when they say person is "not taking any medication."

I dunno. I think it's impossible for her psychologist husband to be aware of the fact that she's taking an SSRI or similar and for him to simultaneously claim she's not on medications. He knows why he's being asked (and he'd know that the police will eventually know from medical records, which will almost certainly be brought into the hands of the ME). That would be a very strange statement from the husband, who is apparently highly trained and well respected in a clinical environment.

 

[MJPeony]

I dunno. I think it's impossible for her psychologist husband to be aware of the fact that she's taking an SSRI or similar and for him to simultaneously claim she's not on medications. He knows why he's being asked (and he'd know that the police will eventually know from medical records, which will almost certainly be brought into the hands of the ME). That would be a very strange statement from the husband, who is apparently highly trained and well respected in a clinical environment.

I agree it would be unlikely for her husband to say “she’s not on meds” to LE if she were on something regular such as SSRI’s.

However, I do think it would be understandable for him to say “she’s not on meds” if she had an rx for something occasional- like valium etc. If I were in his shoes I probably would have said no meds as well, because the rx would not be something she needed. It could have even slipped his mind because it was a rare occasion she took it. It is however this type of drug, when taken in too high a quantity or mixed with something else, that can have potentially lethal complications. All MOO of course as we have no COD given at this point.

 

[kittythehare]

I think they could definitely locate a bacterial cause at 5-7 post mortem. It's interesting you're thinking that way, because I'm reviewing a case involving a death via sepsis (and the person's demise was really rapid onset and it involved psychosis-like statements and hardly any complaints about pain, even though in theory, it should have been more painful). It's a case that a friend (who is both a psychiatrist and a pathologist) just wants to discuss. He's got theories about Substance P and he also wants to be able to figure out ways of detecting certain specific biochemical states in the brain without the person having to be dead (he thinks there are ways of using saliva, tears and also...oddly, smell tests...)

I bet they did the autopsy immediately, but of course it's possible there was refrigeration involved.

Temps up there were pretty warm (but not at night). She might have died during Tuesday, to my way of thinking.

Tuesday makes sense.. otherwise healthy woman enters coma ... does not die immediately... yeah.

 

[10ofRods]

If you go back a few pages you will find the links I posted from authentic sources regarding the challenges posed by bodies in various states of decomposition.
In the post above my reference to natural meant pathological organic states not arising from artificial stimuli such as drugs or suicide/ self induced.
I hope that is clear now.

Of course there are challenges. But the body was in one place, there will be fluids in the car, all of it is analyzable and forensics are better and better.

Good question. She was parked in a very nice neighborhood. I felt a bit uncomfortable running there the other day, as if I was being invasive to the neighborhood because it wasn’t my neck of the woods. I am very surprised neighbors didn’t check on it sooner or found it suspicious. Plus San Jose has the most expensive housing market in the United States, for what people pay for these houses do you think the home owners would get a bit annoyed with a car parked in front of their house for a week? A bit baffling

She parked sometime in the wee hours of Tuesday. I don't know about your neighborhood, but I wouldn't be out looking inside of a stranger's car to see if they were asleep there, if the car just showed up in front of my house in the morning. At any given time in my neighborhood, about 1 in 5 houses have people who are retired and traveling or well off and traveling or traveling for business. Everyone else is pretty much up at the crack of dawn to commute.

Now, that being said, if it were right in front of my house, I'd snap a picture of the license plate if it were there all day. Both my husband and I do this. Most of our neighbors think we are nuts. And I'd probably be reading websleuths - but people go missing in my city all the time and my co-workers and neighbors have never heard about it.

I don't think we heard about Erin's being missing on Tuesday. In previous years, when crime was low and there were a lot of teenagers still coming and going on our street, I would have just called parking enforcement after 48 hours. They'd come in a day or two. Now I'd call police after 24 hours, but I don't know that I'd approach the car, these days. Not by myself, anyway.

So, within one neighborhood, lots of different approaches. One of the bigger/nicer houses in our neighborhood now has two adult daughters, both of whom moved out, had kids, but are now back at home. Both of those women have occasional boyfriends (who park overnight on the street occasionally). The kids' dads are there at various hours, I don't pay attention. I would assume it was one of those guys, at least initially.

Anyway, I'm not sure in the anonymous California lifestyle, with so many variables on one street, that anyone would call in a car that's parked, unless they had reason to associate it with a missing person. Hardly anyone listens to local news or reads papers any more.

Many have been obsessed with weather since July. We do check weather and talk about forecasts 2 weeks out. Most newspapers have almost daily stories of missing persons, people a lot of it out, sadly.

 

[cluciano63]

If she was not assaulted in any way, or robbed, I can’t see why anyone would slip her drugs. People are unlikely to drug someone and then just go away, imo.