Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[L'Eau_d'Hiver]

More remains found near site of missing man’s truck

Is this a recent article ? I don't have access to it.

 

[masquerading]

More remains found near site of missing man’s truck

Is this a recent article ? I don't have access to it.

It’s from November 8 and doesn’t have any info that isn’t already posted here

 

[L'Eau_d'Hiver]

It’s from November 8 and doesn’t have any info that isn’t already posted here

Thanks!

 

[Moonstrawbs]

My heart goes out to Fang Jin’s family and friends, but especially her daughters. She was a beautiful, adventurous soul. I hope more answers are to come for them and I wish them so much healing.

Please don’t take my next statement as argumentative (I know WS is for speculating and looking further, and I’m not here to police what you post!), however can I just remind everyone that as it stands BOTH JF and JRF are victims here? I had to catch up in this thread maybe 16-17 pages and I’m a bit bothered by the way some seem to keep placing blame and casting doubt on JRF (he should’ve been more prepared/known better as a SEAL, he has a history of driving infractions??, etc etc) when there’s really nothing to suggest that he harmed JF or himself on purpose. And as many have shared in the posts before this one, it’s entirely possible to be well prepared and still face tragedy in the desert. Placing blame just seems kind of… off. Because he’s a victim here too. Am I making sense? They both deserve the same dignity as victims here, IMO. I think the difference in attitudes might be that we’ve been able to humanize Fang Jin more, especially with the help of our VI, mark. We haven’t heard from anyone on JRF’s side. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t also a person who also died a tragic death alongside his new friend.

Hopefully I articulated that well (edited to insert the smiley instead of “:/“)

Very well put and my thoughts exactly. So sad for both of them and their loved ones.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

My heart goes out to Fang Jin’s family and friends, but especially her daughters. She was a beautiful, adventurous soul. I hope more answers are to come for them and I wish them so much healing.

Please don’t take my next statement as argumentative (I know WS is for speculating and looking further, and I’m not here to police what you post!), however can I just remind everyone that as it stands BOTH JF and JRF are victims here? I had to catch up in this thread maybe 16-17 pages and I’m a bit bothered by the way some seem to keep placing blame and casting doubt on JRF (he should’ve been more prepared/known better as a SEAL, he has a history of driving infractions??, etc etc) when there’s really nothing to suggest that he harmed JF or himself on purpose. And as many have shared in the posts before this one, it’s entirely possible to be well prepared and still face tragedy in the desert. Placing blame just seems kind of… off. Because he’s a victim here too. Am I making sense? They both deserve the same dignity as victims here, IMO. I think the difference in attitudes might be that we’ve been able to humanize Fang Jin more, especially with the help of our VI, mark. We haven’t heard from anyone on JRF’s side. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t also a person who also died a tragic death alongside his new friend.

Hopefully I articulated that well (edited to insert the smiley instead of “:/“)

I fear some of my posts have come across as unduly harsh towards John, which isn't my intention. When the news about the smell of decomp. in John's trailer was released, I was very upset by the assumption that he might have done something to Fang. I defended him, and I'm glad that I did because it does appear that whatever happened was a tragic accident.

I'm just struggling to reconcile what we know about John with what seems to have happened. He appears to have believed--and his friend DH appears to have believed--that he would be safe in this kind of environment. Yet for whatever reason, that turned out not to be the case.

People who have had survival training are taught to balance risk vs. reward. Even if everything had gone perfectly for Fang and John, it feels like going out to the middle of Anza-Borrego at the height of the summer heat, when the temperature alone can kill you in a matter of minutes, was always going to be unnecessarily risky.

It was their risk to take, and I don't judge or blame either one for doing so.

This is going to sound like semantics, but I think it's important to differentiate between placing blame, and trying to figure out who or what was responsible for what went wrong. Only by doing that can we hope to save others from a similar tragedy.

 

[whatsnext]

It's mentioned, but LE apparently thinks that there was no human body stored in the mobile home, or they'd not have concluded that this is an accident. People here who said it could be garbage or results of electrical outage/freezer/refrigerator related are probably right.

IMO

Where does LE say its an accident ?
Eta can't access the link you posted later

 

[atomicsciencegal]

I fear some of my posts have come across as unduly harsh towards John, which isn't my intention. When the news about the smell of decomp. in John's trailer was released, I was very upset by the assumption that he might have done something to Fang. I defended him, and I'm glad that I did because it does appear that whatever happened was a tragic accident.

I'm just struggling to reconcile what we know about John with what seems to have happened. He appears to have believed--and his friend DH appears to have believed--that he would be safe in this kind of environment. Yet for whatever reason, that turned out not to be the case.

People who have had survival training are taught to balance risk vs. reward. Even if everything had gone perfectly for Fang and John, it feels like going out to the middle of Anza-Borrego at the height of the summer heat, when the temperature alone can kill you in a matter of minutes, was always going to be unnecessarily risky.

It was their risk to take, and I don't judge or blame either one for doing so.

This is going to sound like semantics, but I think it's important to differentiate between placing blame, and trying to figure out who or what was responsible for what went wrong. Only by doing that can we hope to save others from a similar tragedy.

Well said, friend. There is no blame to be had, only answers to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar situation.

 

[iamshadow21]

Well said, friend. There is no blame to be had, only answers to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar situation.

Yeah, I don't think anyone here blames John, as in, thinks he deserved to die for what was probably a combination of overconfidence and ignorance. We all of us make mistakes, and it's a hard, sad day when one of us dies of it. We can talk about what may have been the errors made without feeling anything for him personally but a combination of grief and compassion. They should have had a fun adventure with lots of photographs and stories to take home, and they didn't, and that's a tragedy. That it might have been avoided is even more of one.

MOO

 

[atomicsciencegal]

So I just wanted to touch on a few points that have been going through my mind.

The first is that JRF apparently grew up in the area or spent some of his early youth there. If he was relying on childhood memories or knowledge, could that have impacted where they ended up? By this I mean - did he have previous knowledge of a particular path or route that had substantially changed since he was familiar with it? Did that force them into a different route or get them into trouble? We know gates have been put in at various location to prevent driving directly onto Harper Flat. Did he?

Second thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that it has been confirmed by the CBS 8 article that the truck was not in Harper Flats. I’m thinking also of the video clip of the reporter (?) on the bike on the path asking if any one had seen the truck. I wonder if they were FAR more south of Harper Flats than we realized, south of the road running along the bottom (Hapaha Flats) or even further - Whale Peak or maybe Pictogram trail (although one would think then they would head to highway 53). I know @10ofRods has also had similar thoughts, about potentially being much further away. Did they manage to become incapacitated so far away from Pinyon Canyon or Harper Canyon that walking out was a 2 day trip?

 

[iamshadow21]

<modsnip - quoted post was deleted>
Then where on earth is John? Fang didn't drive herself out into the desert.

This article says his family had been notified!

Family notified ex Navy SEAL found dead in desert, female companion still missing

Bones found in the Harper Canyon area of Anza-Borrego on September 17.

www.cbs8.com

John was found in SEPTEMBER, not November.

 

[10ofRods]

Popping back in to say I did think of one source for DNA - the gray t-shirt.

That would have had tons of his DNA on it, and the main degrading factor for it would be rain and floodwater - but DNA has survived in cloth after being in washing machines, especially with knitted fabrics like t-shirts or underwear (some kinds of underwear). It's okay if it's fragmentary, because they can probably still make an identifying match.

That is something that SDCSO should be able to study.

IMO. If the wallet was found, that would be another source. And there's always the possibility that some collagen survived (seems unlikely to me, but still possible).

If there's ID nearby and the bones are still with clothing known to be the victim's clothing <modsnip - no link corroborating this statement> not sure they need to do DNA - but they sure could go for a match if they found some. I'm guessing it would take about a month for the military to respond with its files.

IMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Popping back in to say I did think of one source for DNA - the gray t-shirt.

That would have had tons of his DNA on it, and the main degrading factor for it would be rain and floodwater - but DNA has survived in cloth after being in washing machines, especially with knitted fabrics like t-shirts or underwear (some kinds of underwear). It's okay if it's fragmentary, because they can probably still make an identifying match.

That is something that SDCSO should be able to study.

IMO. If the wallet was found, that would be another source. And there's always the possibility that some collagen survived (seems unlikely to me, but still possible).

If there's ID nearby and the bones are still with clothing known to be the victim's clothing modsnip - no link corroborating this statement>, not sure they need to do DNA - but they sure could go for a match if they found some. I'm guessing it would take about a month for the military to respond with its files.

IMO

I thought of the shirt! But then I thought, oh, if they could have used that, @10ofRods would have said so, so I didn't post!

 

[Sundog]

Popping back in to say I did think of one source for DNA - the gray t-shirt.

That would have had tons of his DNA on it, and the main degrading factor for it would be rain and floodwater - but DNA has survived in cloth after being in washing machines, especially with knitted fabrics like t-shirts or underwear (some kinds of underwear). It's okay if it's fragmentary, because they can probably still make an identifying match.

That is something that SDCSO should be able to study.

IMO. If the wallet was found, that would be another source. And there's always the possibility that some collagen survived (seems unlikely to me, but still possible).

If there's ID nearby and the bones are still with clothing known to be the victim's clothing <modsnip - no link corroborating this statement>, not sure they need to do DNA - but they sure could go for a match if they found some. I'm guessing it would take about a month for the military to respond with its files.

IMO

If they found his ID, was it in a wallet? If they have his wallet, perhaps some DNA on the wallet?

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Did I miss something or why is the smell of decomposition mentioned in the warrant discounted?

Moo:
The location of the truck and the autopsies for the 2 bodies are under seal, as the investigation is ongoing- that's what the reporter was told when he filed a freedom of information request for the location of the truck in Anza-Borrego.

However, family says they're told it's death by heat exposure (?)- so clearly there's more investigation going on and it's a matter of time. Silence by LE doesn't always point to inaction or incompetence.

People here have explained away the smell of decomposition that it's due to lack of sanitation in the trailer, lack of electricity in 120f heat causing refrigerator smell, rats or other critters in the trailer home, as well as LE being untrained to distinguish between human decomposition vs just rotting matter. (All of which I don't believe are reasonable but I could be wrong. We're ALL just surmising here.)

 

[patternsfinder]

Then where on earth is John? Fang didn't drive herself out into the desert.

This article says his family had been notified!

Family notified ex Navy SEAL found dead in desert, female companion still missing

Bones found in the Harper Canyon area of Anza-Borrego on September 17.

www.cbs8.com

John was found in SEPTEMBER, not November.

To be clear, what that article specifically says is: "A friend of John Fitzpatrick, who asked not to be identified, told CBS 8 that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were, in fact, those of John Fitzpatrick."

We know from this article that the "friend of JRF" is likely DH, although interesting to note he did not want his name used in the CBS8 article. No one from JRF's family, or LE, is on record, or even confirmed on background, as saying that JRF's family was notified about the remains.

("On record" = name can be used, "off record" = nothing you say can be used or cited to you, "on background" = things you say can be cited, but not tied to you. As a general FYI for folks who don't interact with reporters a ton.)

I'm not saying that the family was not told the first remains were JRF. I'm just pointing out that the only person we have saying so is DH, who later asked to have his name removed from press about this situation.

 

[Dhighsmith]

To be clear, what that article specifically says is: "A friend of John Fitzpatrick, who asked not to be identified, told CBS 8 that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were, in fact, those of John Fitzpatrick."

We know from this article that the "friend of JRF" is likely DH, although interesting to note he did not want his name used in the CBS8 article. No one from JRF's family, or LE, is on record, or even confirmed on background, as saying that JRF's family was notified about the remains.

("On record" = name can be used, "off record" = nothing you say can be used or cited to you, "on background" = things you say can be cited, but not tied to you. As a general FYI for folks who don't interact with reporters a ton.)

I'm not saying that the family was not told the first remains were JRF. I'm just pointing out that the only person we have saying so is DH, who later asked to have his name removed from press about this situation.

There’s always the possibility that the family and friends of JRF who appear silent are actively online here chatting on a regular with us- I’m just saying it’s happened in prior cases, personally experienced myself in 2 different cases thus the reason I deactivated my FB account.

 

[Kittenn11]

Ever since John's remains were found I've been very curious as to the terrain they were in. I can think of so many scenarios in several parts of this case so I don't usually like to speculate but I found this video and it is probably one of the best I've seen on how the floods could have impacted them both while still alive and after they sadly passed. This video is longer in length and the author is a bit ..idk what word to use, maybe quirky... Even so, I've watched the entire video twice and it's helped to at least highlight a little bit of how the flooding can and does affect the area as well as other interesting tid bits as he explores all the way through what is possibly at least some of the terrain John and Fang Jin also traversed. It also includes one of the hills/drops that are supposed to be one way, and from what I've read and seen watching a lot of videos of this area including this one, that rule is often not followed here, which imo and in my experience most people in the off roading community will tell you is definitely not unheard-of. ( as far as not following rules like this particular one way road) Though, in a dire type emergency I don't think most would care to follow such rule if they thought it meant saving a life either.
I also found what appears to be some sorta fencing in some areas that are not functioning well, or at all.. (ie: stakes/posts but no connection fencing) possibly from flooding? Or just meant to be markers in these particular areas, I am not certain.
Anyway, if you pay close attention to what's being said by the man and also his surroundings in the background, you may find there are also other little details there that might be useful. Including but not limited to the beautiful night sky in the area when the man in this video starts to leave the park. (I've read about and have seen photos of its beautiful nature so it was just one of many little bits I caught).
I have a shorter video I'll share with some more thoughts when I get a chance that i believe also contains some good insight as it pertains to this area. ( which seems to be somewhat popular for this region of this park) For now, I wanted to share this video, as I found it particularly helpful to myself.
Side note: this video starts off slow and the very end doesn't really have much, if any useful info so for those that may want to skip through some of it you could start at 3:50 then at the end you could skip the last 15-20 mins.

 

[mark1969]

Ever since John's remains were found I've been very curious as to the terrain they were in. I can think of so many scenarios in several parts of this case so I don't usually like to speculate but I found this video and it is probably one of the best I've seen on how the floods could have impacted them both while still alive and after they sadly passed. This video is longer in length and the author is a bit ..idk what word to use, maybe quirky... Even so, I've watched the entire video twice and it's helped to at least highlight a little bit of how the flooding can and does affect the area as well as other interesting tid bits as he explores all the way through what is possibly at least some of the terrain John and Fang Jin also traversed. It also includes one of the hills/drops that are supposed to be one way, and from what I've read and seen watching a lot of videos of this area including this one, that rule is often not followed here, which imo and in my experience most people in the off roading community will tell you is definitely not unheard-of. ( as far as not following rules like this particular one way road) Though, in a dire type emergency I don't think most would care to follow such rule if they thought it meant saving a life either.
I also found what appears to be some sorta fencing in some areas that are not functioning well, or at all.. (ie: stakes/posts but no connection fencing) possibly from flooding? Or just meant to be markers in these particular areas, I am not certain.
Anyway, if you pay close attention to what's being said by the man and also his surroundings in the background, you may find there are also other little details there that might be useful. Including but not limited to the beautiful night sky in the area when the man in this video starts to leave the park. (I've read about and have seen photos of its beautiful nature so it was just one of many little bits I caught).
I have a shorter video I'll share with some more thoughts when I get a chance that i believe also contains some good insight as it pertains to this area. ( which seems to be somewhat popular for this region of this park) For now, I wanted to share this video, as I found it particularly helpful to myself.
Side note: this video starts off slow and the very end doesn't really have much, if any useful info so for those that may want to skip through some of it you could start at 3:50 then at the end you could skip the last 15-20 mins.

Can somebody send a privat message with usable watchable link ?

 

[megs1477]

One thing to consider...
Bones found with a wallet and Identification = Enough evidence to tell family, we think we found him, but still need to run DNA to confirm. It is not enough evidence to write a report and close a file. Some LE agencies are comfortable making an announcement without official confirmation, other are not. I believe there is also a bit of an issue with the two different counties involved. SB appears to be trying to push things off on SD. SD isn't confirming anything, it seems until it is official. Right now, reports are taking approximately 4-6 months per the SDC ME's office, per their website. That is a normal report. Add to that a difficult DNA extraction and you are looking at a lengthy timeframe, unless there is a rush.
That being said, I don't believe there is any reason to discount the quote from JRF's "friend" that his family was information. I also don't believe we will have answers anytime soon, although I hope I am wrong.
JMOO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

If it was possible to conclusively identify Fang and only to give a probable identification of John, it suggests there might have been differences in the condition of their remains.

I don't know what those differences were or would be likely to be. But given that both likely died at the same time, in the same place, and were subjected to the same conditions, it would be interesting to know the reason for the potential differences.