Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ JohnRoot Fitzpatrick, 55, missing, 30 Jul ‘23

[Herat]

Not fishy at all, these kinds of things happen frequently with the internet now paying such a major role in our lives. Female meets male on social media. They develop a relationship on social media over a six month period. The female doesn't know anyone in the U.S. and would like to visit. By now she trusts him and asks him if he would be willing to show her around, and offers to pay him for his time. Or he suggests she visit the U.S. and offers to be her tour guide and show him around. She takes him up on his offer, but insists on paying him or at least hte costs. I suspect she also planned to visit San Francisco and New York City before she returned home. Those are two places where most of our family and friends from the PRC want to see before returning home while they are here visiting the U.S. The younger people prefer New York City, in my experience.

I think this is an important point, re NYC or San Francisco.

She entered the US in LAX on July 14. Her allowable180 day stay on a B1/2 tourism visa would expire on January 10, 2024, so she will not be missing according to US DHS until January 11, 2024.

That is 6 months in the US. I can't imagine she was going to spend 180 days in the deserts of Southern California. Or was her trip only to see the California desert. We don't actually know when her return was planned for, do we?

If she really only had $3000, she would not have enough money on hand to stay 6 months. DHS would have likely checked this at LAX on arrival and it suggests, to me, that she was planning less than a 6 month stay, and it was likely only in California or maybe Las Vegas, too.

Edited to correct spelling

It would really help put some of the pieces together if a family member or friend knew more about her agenda in regards to how much time she was planning in the area and the other places she was expecting to see. For example, If there were confirmed reservations in a San Francisco hotel a month after her arrival, then a month in NYC on the east coast and no hotel cancellations or communications had been made, it makes a better case to get LE to get ahold of her cell phone records, if possible.

Otherwise, we will have to wait until January 11, 2024 for LE to be able to officially consider her missing, rather than just not currently accounted for.

 

[Sundog]

Two months in a few days ... I'm guessing LE is monitoring their banking activities but nothing said about those so far?

I don't think LE would be able to monitor her banking activities, but maybe her daughter had access to her accounts in Portugal and the PRC.

 

[10ofRods]

Do we actually know how long her visa was for? B1/B2 are UP TO 180 days, but can be for shorter times.

I thought we heard she was planning to go back in 90 days - did I dream that??

 

[Herat]

The amount of time the visa is valid for is determined at arrival in the US, by DHS.

To get a B1/2 US VISA, the applicant has to have some fairly concrete plans, so the time allowed usually corresponds to the original plans made and the date of the departure flight.

I, too, seem to recall 90 days being stated as how long she was planning on staying because I was thinking her return flight was in October.

Still, 90 days is a long time to be spending in the southern California deserts, especially with someone you've only met over the internet.

 

[slowpoke]

Do we actually know how long her visa was for? B1/B2 are UP TO 180 days, but can be for shorter times.

I thought we heard she was planning to go back in 90 days - did I dream that??

Her return is scheduled for some time in October.

Bcbay article in Chinese

“据世界日报报道，针对网上一些传言，金芳的林姓女儿(以下称林女士)近日联系了该报，她强调母亲金芳是有备而来，也订好了10月间回程机票，并非传言中的有意滞留美国不归.”

translated:
”According to the World Daily, in response to some rumors on the Internet, Jin Fang's daughter surnamed Lin (hereinafter referred to as Ms. Lin) recently contacted the newspaper. She stressed that her mother, Jin Fang, was prepared and had also booked a return ticket for October. It was not the rumor that she intended to stay in the United States.”

 

[Herat]

Does Ms Lin give any information on where else her mother was visiting in the 90 days she was in the US?

 

[Megnut]

$3000 is plenty if she doesn't have to pay for room and board and a rental car. We really don't know the nature or terms of their arrangement.

He may have offered, genuinely and voluntarily, to be her personal tour guide. Free of charge.

For the adventure of it. Only to be overcome by the adventure itself.

JMO

 

[Herat]

True, if she does not have to independently pay for accommodation and a rental car.

But still, that's only $33 a day for the two of them. That's not enough for gas and two McDonald's meals. We've already seen two possible hotels she stayed in, one in Los Angeles, and one I think in Palm Springs area.

I think she would want to stay in a motel for some other nights for the A/C, to get showered and to do some laundry. Get groceries or restaurant meals. Other such stuff.

I don't think she intended to be desert camping for 90 days. I think she has to be using a credit card or some form of bank or electronic payment for expenses. There must be a financial trail on some account in China that can be found and checked.

 

[Herat]

I also wondered, too, if they were headed perhaps to Arizona, or Nevada, or even Mexico. Maybe cooler parts of California.

Maybe he knows inconspicuous ways to cross the border. But that border region south of Calexico is dangerous and gang-laden. There are mountains, but you would really have to know where to go and where NOT to go. Someone would always be noticing and they would stand out, perhaps attracting the wrong kind of attention. If something happened to them in Mexico, chances would be slim to ever find them, I think.

Personally, I think they never got very far from the desert regions of the Coachella Valley, Salton Sea, Cleveland National Forest, Anza-Borrego or Imperial Valley area.

The last contact her daughter can confirm is only a week after she arrived. I don't think they are very far from where they started together.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Trying to think of an alternative explanation for not only the disappearance of both JRF and FJ but also the missing truck. With the limited info for detailed evidence of what actually occurred anything is still possible- ignoring my hinky meter.

Is anyone familiar or experienced with the possibilities for sand storm implications, specifically for the reported areas they traveled? I’m not local and don’t trust my memory for specific details from my visits to area.

I’m aware of issues from sand storms starting back in July, which has even caused temporary halt of train services for LA to Palm Springs. It seems the risk of visibility complications connected to sand storm conditions is potentially a concern as a news article today reported three individuals were killed in Palm Springs by injuries sustained in car crash that’s suspected to be related to sand storm- - it was a random article from News App that popped up immediately grabbing my attention and started me thinking of possibilities.

So, is anyone aware if there is a history of missing persons that are ultimately revealed to be victims of car crash incidents involving the specific areas of their travels? Is there a regular occurrence or a higher risk during the sand storms for fatal car accident in which the vehicle is located in an area hidden from public view?

It’s common in mountainous areas that a vehicle is at risk of weather conditions for a fatal car accident that’s easily hidden from view due to elevation along with trees and ground coverage of brush concealing view of the vehicle from highway traffic and overhead aircraft. It’s possible in flat terrain, my Cousin’s daughter, a high school senior disappeared driving to school during heavy rainstorm. The entire community of Thomasville searched, continuously retracing her route, 4 days later she was located deceased by utility crews trimming back tree limbs along the highway.

Is similar scenario to these a possibility in this case for the local environment during sand storm conditions- ability to disappear from public for at least 2 months?

 

[Dhighsmith]

SEE 10ofRods' post on our temps above. He gives you the numbers. My remarks below are based more on my personal experience (as someone who really hates the heat).

I was raised in South Florida and now live in Palm Springs, CA.

The southwest of the US is basically one, enormous desert. Our humidity is usually much less than yours.

On the other hand--and who knows what the new "normal" is for weather nowadays--our highs may be 20 degrees or more higher than yours in the summer. Personally, I find that when the thermometer tops 110, it really doesn't matter how "dry" it is. (10ofRods confirms this above.) We lose hikers every year because they get lost or fail to take enough water with them.

People who say "but it's a dry heat" are relatively accurate, though they are usually referring to the American tourist season (roughly Halloween to Mother's Day). (10ofRods is correct that the trend for the past 20 years is that our hotels fill up with foreign nationals during the traditional European holiday "month" of August. Germans are very common then.)

We also have a "monsoon season" in the summer, when our humidity goes up, and is sometimes accompanied by thunder storms (and, this year, Hurricane Hillary). I lived in Tallahassee for a few years, so I know how ugly it can get along the Gulf Coast. It's rarely THAT humid here, but it's bad enough our evaporative coolers stop working and life is impossible without AC.

Most of the time, fortunately, the humidity blocks some of the sunlight, so a VERY humid day may keep the high under 100. However, the high on July 22 was 120 degrees Fahrenheit. For most of July it was 115-120 during the afternoon, cooling down only to about 90 at dawn--when the temperature started rising again!

You’re so right, it’s dangerous at those temps especially for anyone inexperienced. I live outside of Thomasville so we were sort of neighbors when you lived in Tallahassee, this Summer has been miserable. Last week’s Hurricane was horrible, tracking over Monticello and on up to me- power and water restored Tuesday.

 

[Nova]

You’re so right, it’s dangerous at those temps especially for anyone inexperienced. I live outside of Thomasville so we were sort of neighbors when you lived in Tallahassee, this Summer has been miserable. Last week’s Hurricane was horrible, tracking over Monticello and on up to me- power and water restored Tuesday.

I'm glad you are okay.

I still have cousins in Gainesville. They lost a good-sized chunk of their roof and ceiling during the hurricane! (No injuries, thank goodness.)

 

[Dhighsmith]

I'm glad you are okay.

I still have cousins in Gainesville. They lost a good-sized chunk of their roof and ceiling during the hurricane! (No injuries, thank goodness.)

I’m glad they’re all safe, just minor damage to my house too. I’ve got a large pond in front of house that overflowed so some flooding due to tremendous amount of rain. We were definitely fortunate, there was one death in Valdosta from a tree falling on car.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

This is a listing for lodging/hotel called Happy Home Obidos in Portugal- this woman in the scarf appears to be JF, and the pillow is embroidered with "welcome" in Chinese lettering.

This is public info from TripAdvisor. The hotel does not take bookings at this time.

HAPPY HOME OBIDOS - Prices & Guest house Reviews (Portugal)

Book Happy Home Obidos, Obidos on Tripadvisor: See traveler reviews, 52 candid photos, and great deals for Happy Home Obidos at Tripadvisor.

www.tripadvisor.com

If this isn't allowed, please delete and apologies in advance.

 

[10ofRods]

Trying to think of an alternative explanation for not only the disappearance of both JRF and FJ but also the missing truck. With the limited info for detailed evidence of what actually occurred anything is still possible- ignoring my hinky meter.

Is anyone familiar or experienced with the possibilities for sand storm implications, specifically for the reported areas they traveled? I’m not local and don’t trust my memory for specific details from my visits to area.

I’m aware of issues from sand storms starting back in July, which has even caused temporary halt of train services for LA to Palm Springs. It seems the risk of visibility complications connected to sand storm conditions is potentially a concern as a news article today reported three individuals were killed in Palm Springs by injuries sustained in car crash that’s suspected to be related to sand storm- - it was a random article from News App that popped up immediately grabbing my attention and started me thinking of possibilities.

So, is anyone aware if there is a history of missing persons that are ultimately revealed to be victims of car crash incidents involving the specific areas of their travels? Is there a regular occurrence or a higher risk during the sand storms for fatal car accident in which the vehicle is located in an area hidden from public view?

It’s common in mountainous areas that a vehicle is at risk of weather conditions for a fatal car accident that’s easily hidden from view due to elevation along with trees and ground coverage of brush concealing view of the vehicle from highway traffic and overhead aircraft. It’s possible in flat terrain, my Cousin’s daughter, a high school senior disappeared driving to school during heavy rainstorm. The entire community of Thomasville searched, continuously retracing her route, 4 days later she was located deceased by utility crews trimming back tree limbs along the highway.

Is similar scenario to these a possibility in this case for the local environment during sand storm conditions- ability to disappear from public for at least 2 months?

I think the sandstorm covering up the truck is an unlikely scenario (especially given the places we know they were and the weather conditions at the time). But some other mishap (ending up in a ditch or a gully and not being noticed) have happened many times here in SoCal. The truck *is* a highly visible color, but if it is lodged under chaparral in some ravine, it will be invisible. This type of landscape would be more likely around Julian, which is higher in the mountains.

As far as I can tell, there's no evidence of them actually camping. I agree it appears that FJ stayed in hostels/hotels for two nights and then we don't know where she was, but I assume staying at the mobile home park in JRF's mobile home. They appear to have taken day trips to Joshua Tree and to some general location in the Mojave, where FJ took snapshots (although very few snapshots of JT that we've seen - it's a bit peculiar to me; I only remember one picture of a single Joshua Tree - and those are visible throughout the region; no pictures of the amazing rock formations inside JT, that I can recall).

The general trajectory of travel appears to be southward - so not to the cooler parts of California and inland - the hottest part of California.

I agree that $2000 is not enough for 90 days, given that the hostel alone costs $52. However, she surely had a way of using an ATM? Many of us travel with enough cash for the immediate period after landing at an airport (train tickets, flyaway bus to DTLA, hostel, modest meal would be $100 at least on the first day).

Other local tourist sights that do not show up in FJ's camera roll would include Palm Springs and its amazing architecture, the Palm Springs tram ride, any of the hot springs near Thermal, campgrounds themselves, Salton Sea itself.

Odd, IMO.

 

[Herat]

I think the sandstorm covering up the truck is an unlikely scenario (especially given the places we know they were and the weather conditions at the time). But some other mishap (ending up in a ditch or a gully and not being noticed) have happened many times here in SoCal. The truck *is* a highly visible color, but if it is lodged under chaparral in some ravine, it will be invisible. This type of landscape would be more likely around Julian, which is higher in the mountains.

As far as I can tell, there's no evidence of them actually camping. I agree it appears that FJ stayed in hostels/hotels for two nights and then we don't know where she was, but I assume staying at the mobile home park in JRF's mobile home. They appear to have taken day trips to Joshua Tree and to some general location in the Mojave, where FJ took snapshots (although very few snapshots of JT that we've seen - it's a bit peculiar to me; I only remember one picture of a single Joshua Tree - and those are visible throughout the region; no pictures of the amazing rock formations inside JT, that I can recall).

The general trajectory of travel appears to be southward - so not to the cooler parts of California and inland - the hottest part of California.

I agree that $2000 is not enough for 90 days, given that the hostel alone costs $52. However, she surely had a way of using an ATM? Many of us travel with enough cash for the immediate period after landing at an airport (train tickets, flyaway bus to DTLA, hostel, modest meal would be $100 at least on the first day).

Other local tourist sights that do not show up in FJ's camera roll would include Palm Springs and its amazing architecture, the Palm Springs tram ride, any of the hot springs near Thermal, campgrounds themselves, Salton Sea itself.

Odd, IMO.

I am sure she took many photos of interesting Joshua Trees and the rock formations in the park.

All we can see are the few photos she sent to her daughter. There are some rather bland and not interesting photos of what appears to be a casino or hotel in the Palm Springs or Morongo Valley area, the one Joshua Tree - truck- JF photo, and the two or three that seem to be daily check-in photos taken inside the vehicle.

I'd venture those check-in photos were taken early in the day, when they are both clean and fresh. At then end of the day, they'd be sweaty, tired, and dirty from the heat and dust. She's wanting to present a good image to her daughter.

And then after a week, there is no communication from either of them.

I really don't think they made it much farther south together.

The purported truck sighting near Thermal and the reported pining of his phone near Julian are extremely concerning. He doesn't seem like a guy who would harm her for only $3000.

Right now, it all depends on what the daughter and supportive friends can keep posting or details they can recollect about her trip that might be more specific.

'

 

[Dhighsmith]

I think the sandstorm covering up the truck is an unlikely scenario (especially given the places we know they were and the weather conditions at the time). But some other mishap (ending up in a ditch or a gully and not being noticed) have happened many times here in SoCal. The truck *is* a highly visible color, but if it is lodged under chaparral in some ravine, it will be invisible. This type of landscape would be more likely around Julian, which is higher in the mountains.

As far as I can tell, there's no evidence of them actually camping. I agree it appears that FJ stayed in hostels/hotels for two nights and then we don't know where she was, but I assume staying at the mobile home park in JRF's mobile home. They appear to have taken day trips to Joshua Tree and to some general location in the Mojave, where FJ took snapshots (although very few snapshots of JT that we've seen - it's a bit peculiar to me; I only remember one picture of a single Joshua Tree - and those are visible throughout the region; no pictures of the amazing rock formations inside JT, that I can recall).

The general trajectory of travel appears to be southward - so not to the cooler parts of California and inland - the hottest part of California.

I agree that $2000 is not enough for 90 days, given that the hostel alone costs $52. However, she surely had a way of using an ATM? Many of us travel with enough cash for the immediate period after landing at an airport (train tickets, flyaway bus to DTLA, hostel, modest meal would be $100 at least on the first day).

Other local tourist sights that do not show up in FJ's camera roll would include Palm Springs and its amazing architecture, the Palm Springs tram ride, any of the hot springs near Thermal, campgrounds themselves, Salton Sea itself.

Odd, IMO.

Thanks for the valuable insight. I’m also wondering what the impact of flooding from Hurricane might have had on any potential accident crash site in the storm damage and damage assessment personnel- revealing a concealed vehicle or further hiding from public view?
I definitely agree with this being an odd case, the lack of details and the misinformation (conflicting info initially reported) no doubt has influenced LE actions making any investigation difficult. Thanks again for explaining terrain.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I am sure she took many photos of interesting Joshua Trees and the rock formations in the park.

All we can see are the few photos she sent to her daughter. There are some rather bland and not interesting photos of what appears to be a casino or hotel in the Palm Springs or Morongo Valley area, the one Joshua Tree - truck- JF photo, and the two or three that seem to be daily check-in photos taken inside the vehicle.

I'd venture those check-in photos were taken early in the day, when they are both clean and fresh. At then end of the day, they'd be sweaty, tired, and dirty from the heat and dust. She's wanting to present a good image to her daughter.

And then after a week, there is no communication from either of them.

I really don't think they made it much farther south together.

The purported truck sighting near Thermal and the reported pining of his phone near Julian are extremely concerning. He doesn't seem like a guy who would harm her for only $3000.

Right now, it all depends on what the daughter and supportive friends can keep posting or details they can recollect about her trip that might be more specific.

'

I agree that $3,000 doesn’t seem to me to be a strong financial motive. If he had no criminal history of violence or mental health concerns we obviously would have very different opinions of what might have occurred.

 

[Sundog]

If she stayed at the trailer park home at some point, then it's possible that a neighbor would have seen her there and can give some information to LE. Or to the media if LE are not investigating at this point.

 

[10ofRods]

If she stayed at the trailer park home at some point, then it's possible that a neighbor would have seen her there and can give some information to LE. Or to the media if LE are not investigating at this point.

I'm guessing that LE has been out to the mobile home park. And I would think that what the neighbors saw probably corresponds to what we already know (the two left in his truck and went somewhere). I do wonder if the "friend" that contacted Ms. L in China was a neighbor.

I'm not sure that most people would think to contact the media (such as it is) in a case like this. The High Desert News should be known to everyone - but it is thinly staffed. I'm thinking that the reporter who has been so gracious as to write stories about FJ might want to go out to the mobile home park.

IMO.