CA CA - Farren Stanberry, 18, San Francisco, 24 Apr 1980

[Odyssey]

I just noticed something else kind of odd.

From the Doe Network:
Just after Stanberry's 18th birthday, in 1979, Farren told his grandmother and his aunt that he wanted to see the world. He jumped on a Greyhound with his backpack and took it to the East Coast. Every week he would call his grandmother to check in with her.
After about nine months in 1980 he called from San Francisco saying he like it there, he was living with a group of young men at the "International Hotel" in San Francisco. At the time he had lost his job and needed money. That was the last time the family heard from him.

BBM

We already know that the International Hotel is wrong... but the timeline is odd too.

Farren left Oregon just after his 18th birthday - which, assuming he left IMMEDIATELY after his birthday, he left at the end of August 1979.

After about nine months he calls from San Francisco - that would be the end of May. (Yet Doe Network has him missing April 26?)

Assuming that he contacted his grandmother weekly, and it sounds like they only received the one call from him in SF (he liked it there and was staying with a group of young men, etc) which would mean he had just gotten there at the end of May and never called again. That leaves a 2 week window from his previous call (not yet in SF) to when he would have made his next one. So maybe he was only in SF for two weeks tops before going missing?

But at the same time, he'd been there long enough to get a job and lose his job. And to have the manager notice/remember he'd befriended a gay man. He had a bank account.

If the timeline from his family is correct, that would put his disappearance either the last few days of May or the first few days of June. This could make UID#1 more promising, found on May 30.

Just thinking out loud here, something just isn't adding up and I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Satch]

I just noticed something else kind of odd.

From the Doe Network:
Just after Stanberry's 18th birthday, in 1979, Farren told his grandmother and his aunt that he wanted to see the world. He jumped on a Greyhound with his backpack and took it to the East Coast. Every week he would call his grandmother to check in with her.
After about nine months in 1980 he called from San Francisco saying he like it there, he was living with a group of young men at the "International Hotel" in San Francisco. At the time he had lost his job and needed money. That was the last time the family heard from him.

BBM

We already know that the International Hotel is wrong... but the timeline is odd too.

Farren left Oregon just after his 18th birthday - which, assuming he left IMMEDIATELY after his birthday, he left at the end of August 1979.

After about nine months he calls from San Francisco - that would be the end of May. (Yet Doe Network has him missing April 26?)

Assuming that he contacted his grandmother weekly, and it sounds like they only received the one call from him in SF (he liked it there and was staying with a group of young men, etc) which would mean he had just gotten there at the end of May and never called again. That leaves a 2 week window from his previous call (not yet in SF) to when he would have made his next one. So maybe he was only in SF for two weeks tops before going missing?

But at the same time, he'd been there long enough to get a job and lose his job. And to have the manager notice/remember he'd befriended a gay man. He had a bank account.

If the timeline from his family is correct, that would put his disappearance either the last few days of May or the first few days of June. This could make UID#1 more promising, found on May 30.

Just thinking out loud here, something just isn't adding up and I can't quite put my finger on it.

I agree,

The timelines seem to indicate Farren did a lot in only two weeks. Even the dates are strange. It does say, "About nine months." Doe Network is not always as accurate or detailed as Charlie Project, and this is a good example of that. I am going to review the information about UID #1 now.

Satch

 

[Satch]

I just noticed something else kind of odd.

From the Doe Network:
Just after Stanberry's 18th birthday, in 1979, Farren told his grandmother and his aunt that he wanted to see the world. He jumped on a Greyhound with his backpack and took it to the East Coast. Every week he would call his grandmother to check in with her.
After about nine months in 1980 he called from San Francisco saying he like it there, he was living with a group of young men at the "International Hotel" in San Francisco. At the time he had lost his job and needed money. That was the last time the family heard from him.

BBM

We already know that the International Hotel is wrong... but the timeline is odd too.

Farren left Oregon just after his 18th birthday - which, assuming he left IMMEDIATELY after his birthday, he left at the end of August 1979.

After about nine months he calls from San Francisco - that would be the end of May. (Yet Doe Network has him missing April 26?)

Assuming that he contacted his grandmother weekly, and it sounds like they only received the one call from him in SF (he liked it there and was staying with a group of young men, etc) which would mean he had just gotten there at the end of May and never called again. That leaves a 2 week window from his previous call (not yet in SF) to when he would have made his next one. So maybe he was only in SF for two weeks tops before going missing?

But at the same time, he'd been there long enough to get a job and lose his job. And to have the manager notice/remember he'd befriended a gay man. He had a bank account.

If the timeline from his family is correct, that would put his disappearance either the last few days of May or the first few days of June. This could make UID#1 more promising, found on May 30.

Just thinking out loud here, something just isn't adding up and I can't quite put my finger on it.

It is said that UID #1 was found in San Fransisco Bay in 1980. How far is the Bay area from Farren's reported address that he had listed on his bank account at Market Street? The main UID that still jumps out at me is UID #3.

Satch

 

[Odyssey]

It is said that UID #1 was found in San Fransisco Bay in 1980. How far is the Bay area from Farren's reported address that he had listed on his bank account at Market Street? The main UID that still jumps out at me is UID #3.

Satch

I don't know exactly how far it is, but I remember someone else who was more familiar with SF said earlier in the thread that it was a straight shot down Market Street to the pier.

I'm also not sure when he was reported missing - that would be useful to know too. Maybe I can find that out when I talk to LE. If it was reported soon after, the information is probably more reliable than if it was years later. I'm also thinking that the MP sites probably got their info from those news articles since they also repeated International Hotel.

The news article information came from his family in 1998, I believe, so yeah memories would be much more vague of exactly what happened when.

ETA: If we did start seriously looking at UID #1, it would raise more hard questions - was he using needles, did he shave his head, did he have all that dental work... but I suppose those would be easier to answer than "How was a body found in a building that didn't exist?"

 

[alllads]

Just noticed now that, on NamUs, it says that there are dental records for Farren, but that they haven't been entered yet. Is that accurate? There are dentals for the UIDs, so that would be a much easier check than DNA.

 

[Odyssey]

Just noticed now that, on NamUs, it says that there are dental records for Farren, but that they haven't been entered yet. Is that accurate? There are dentals for the UIDs, so that would be a much easier check than DNA.

I think that is accurate. Last I knew, JD police had the dentals in their possession and had sent a copy to SF ME for comparison with UID #3. I'm not aware that they ever heard back from SF.

 

[Satch]

I think that is accurate. Last I knew, JD police had the dentals in their possession and had sent a copy to SF ME for comparison with UID #3. I'm not aware that they ever heard back from SF.

Is it know what office(s) have the UID remains in their possession at this time? All these tests seem to take FOREVER! Hopefully the new LE officials will be able to help!

Satch

 

[Odyssey]

Is it know what office(s) have the UID remains in their possession at this time? All these tests seem to take FOREVER! Hopefully the new LE officials will be able to help!

Satch

Possibly the SF ME's office or they might have been buried in a cemetery as a John Doe, with just photos in the ME's office? Not sure what their process is.

There are a few other UID's that *could* be Farren, they were all found in water near San Francisco, but there was nothing to suggest they would or wouldn't be him. Some of them do have DNA though, so it would be nice to get his DNA into the system.

Based on what we know, I feel that Farren is deceased and is somewhere in San Francisco. I don't think he traveled anywhere else without taking his belongings or letting anyone know where he was. JMO.

 

[Odyssey]

Ok, a couple more little things - I went back through the 2 articles from the newspaper. One of them says:

About nine months after he left John Day, Farren called from San Francisco. He liked it there, he said. He was living with a group of young men in a hotel. But he'd lost his job and needed money.
"His mother had some money of his," Sandy says. "He called her and asked for it and she told him no." That same day Farren called his grandmother and told her he loved her. "That last phone call, he acted like he was all right," says Beulah, Farren's grandmother. "I just couldn't believe it when I didn't hear from him."

BBM

So it looks like he actually called his grandmother twice. Not sure if all calls happened the same day, but if that second call to his grandmother was the same day as the first, it's kind of a depressing thought.

Also, it says

The last time Farren called Beulah, he told her he was living in a hotel in San Francisco. When he didn't call again for several weeks, family members called the hotel and discovered Farren had disappeared without paying his bill, leaving all his belongings behind. It wasn't like Farren, says his aunt Sandy Colbeth, who helped raise him in Beulah's home.
So the family went to the police in John Day and filed a missing persons report.

So it looks like the report was filed pretty close to the time they last heard from him, and not years later. This means the police may have a better timeline.

 

[Odyssey]

I found a great blog about this area of San Francisco, written by someone who was there. I left a comment and he responded - he was aware of the remains that had been found and says it was on the south side of Market, the building that was replaced by Trinity Plaza. That would be 1145 Market, so not across the street from the hotel, but a couple buildings down on the same side of the street!!

I haven't done too much research on this building, I have some other things I need to get done around here first, but I did quickly check the 1980 directory - the building contained a few businesses:

Mary's Snack Bar
Union Super Market
Biergarden
Hof's Donuts
and one vacant unit

The blogger said he would try to see if he could find any more information. From his response, I wasn't sure if he'd heard anything about Farren or just about the remains so I messaged him to clarify.

http://upfromthedeep.com/preface/

(scroll down to comments)

 

[Odyssey]

Now I think we are getting somewhere. Thank you, blogger, if you're reading this!

1145 Market makes sense. I could find very little about its history because it is now a big high-rise with lots of tenants, so tons of 'current' stuff on Google about that address.

In addition to the stuff I mentioned in the previous post from the 1980 directory, I found an enormous environmental report pertaining to the construction of the new building. It was written in 1985 and mentions that the project at that time was currently under construction with an estimated completion in 1987. It looks like they first starting seeking approvals for the project in 1983. Scanning through it, I didn't see anything about what was there before other than it mentions that the 'site had been cleared and construction started'.

So the old 1145 was still there in 1980-1981. Nothing in 1982. Construction in process on new building in 1985.

 

[Odyssey]

Just parking this here for future reference in case we need it. This is an environmental report written 5/23/83 before 1145 was demolished.

The proposed project would require demolition of the four-story, 43,560-square-foot Civic
Center Market building on the project site that is vacant (Figure 9, page 17). The
structure previously contained a delicatessen, grocery store and restaurant on the ground
floor, occupying about 14,500 gross square feet of space. The remainder of the structure
was devoted to office space, about 29,000 gross square feet. The proposed project would
therefore introduce approximately 108,200 net new square feet of office space on the
site. Estimated project construction costs are about $10,000,000. Construction would be
expected to begin in early 1984 and initial occupancies could take place in mid-1985.

The 95-foot-high Mardikian Building, 1 170 Market Street, is currently under construction
directly east of the Orpheum Theater. Adjacent to the proposed project's west property
line is the I I -story, 150-foot-high 1155 Market Street building currently under
construction, which would be devoted to office use with ground floor retail space.
Buildings east of the site are devoted to office use including ground-floor retail and
restaurants; the Embassy and Strand Theaters; and the National Hotel, which offers daily,
monthly and weekly rates. To the south is the Greyhound Bus Terminal and the Odeon, a
residential hotel. The Trinity Apartments and Greyhound Bus Terminal occupy most of
the project block. Most terminal activities occur in the building on Seventh Street while
bus parking is provided in the area bordering the south portion of the project site.

The project site currently contains the ^-story Civic Center Market building. The ground
floor of the structure was destroyed by fire about one year ago. In previous years, upper
floors of the building, devoted to general office use, were vacated when tenant leases
were not renewed.

https://archive.org/stream/1145marketstreet2019sanf/1145marketstreet2019sanf_djvu.txt

 

[Odyssey]

Based on the address of 1145 Market, in relation to the hotel at 1139 Market, I had figured they were a couple buildings apart. It turns out they are adjacent to each other.

Here is a pair of photos of 1145 Market, where I believe the remains were found. Photos were taken anywhere between 1981-1983. The large 4 story building with the Civic Center Market sign on the right is the old 1145 Market. The shorter building right next to it (with an awning that says Pioneer?) is the National Hotel building.

These aren't the greatest photos but they were the only ones I could find.

At the time that Farren disappeared in 1980, it looks like there were still some retail businesses - a convenience store, a cafeteria, a donut shop, etc. on the ground floor but the upper floors were vacant. The upper floors were offices at some point.

Apparently there was a fire on the ground floor some time in 1982 and since then, the entire building had been vacant.

It seems like Farren would have been very familiar with this building. He probably ate there and bought things from the store. That may very well be where he'd go to use a pay phone to call his family.

I'm still not sure how easy the attic was to access. I can't tell if there were any windows on the side of the building, but I think it's possible that someone could have gotten onto the hotel roof and simply walked across and climbed in a window.

It also appears that the Greyhound station was adjacent to 1145 Market on the opposite side - their parking lot, anyway. Since we know Farren was traveling by Greyhound, his ending up at that hotel may have just been because of its proximity to the Greyhound station, and maybe not an indication that he was gay.

 

[Satch]

Based on the address of 1145 Market, in relation to the hotel at 1139 Market, I had figured they were a couple buildings apart. It turns out they are adjacent to each other.

Here is a pair of photos of 1145 Market, where I believe the remains were found. Photos were taken anywhere between 1981-1983. The large 4 story building with the Civic Center Market sign on the right is the old 1145 Market. The shorter building right next to it (with an awning that says Pioneer?) is the National Hotel building.

These aren't the greatest photos but they were the only ones I could find.

At the time that Farren disappeared in 1980, it looks like there were still some retail businesses - a convenience store, a cafeteria, a donut shop, etc. on the ground floor but the upper floors were vacant. The upper floors were offices at some point.

Apparently there was a fire on the ground floor some time in 1982 and since then, the entire building had been vacant.

It seems like Farren would have been very familiar with this building. He probably ate there and bought things from the store. That may very well be where he'd go to use a pay phone to call his family.

I'm still not sure how easy the attic was to access. I can't tell if there were any windows on the side of the building, but I think it's possible that someone could have gotten onto the hotel roof and simply walked across and climbed in a window.

It also appears that the Greyhound station was adjacent to 1145 Market on the opposite side - their parking lot, anyway. Since we know Farren was traveling by Greyhound, his ending up at that hotel may have just been because of its proximity to the Greyhound station, and maybe not an indication that he was gay.

Thank you Odyessy for the finding of these rare pictures, and for that great blogger guy that helped you!

It tells us that if those few businesses were so close to each other at 1145 Market Street, that Farren would have very easy access to just about everything in that little plaza shopping center. Like you said, he could eat, go shopping, and make calls, while doing very little walking.

Remember that bank where Farren had that $40 (approximate) and change? How far was that from 1145 Market Street? It seemed that many businesses and various opportunities were nearby. Farren could chosen to either blend in or even hide in this small area, if we have narrowed the location down, and I think we have. These are amazing finds for an old case like this! Thanks again!

Now where is the attic area where UID #3 was found? Like you said, we might be able to begin to study Farren's routes to that attic and how easily he could or could not have been seen.

Satch

 

[Satch]

I found a great blog about this area of San Francisco, written by someone who was there. I left a comment and he responded - he was aware of the remains that had been found and says it was on the south side of Market, the building that was replaced by Trinity Plaza. That would be 1145 Market, so not across the street from the hotel, but a couple buildings down on the same side of the street!!

I haven't done too much research on this building, I have some other things I need to get done around here first, but I did quickly check the 1980 directory - the building contained a few businesses:

Mary's Snack Bar
Union Super Market
Biergarden
Hof's Donuts
and one vacant unit

The blogger said he would try to see if he could find any more information. From his response, I wasn't sure if he'd heard anything about Farren or just about the remains so I messaged him to clarify.

http://upfromthedeep.com/preface/

(scroll down to comments)

I'm using Firefox,

I right-clicked and Google Searched one of the businesses in the area, Hof's Donuts. This page came up called Past Mapper, and than I clicked on something else that showed some businesses at 1145 Market Street in San Fransisco from an old 1966 city directorty. This is what I found:

http://pastmapper.com/db/1145_Market_Street,_San_Francisco,_California,_USA

If that directory is accurate, that doughnut shop was around from 1966 til approximately 1981 or 1982. The link shows other businesses that were in the area at that time.

Satch

 

[Odyssey]

Thank you Odyessy for the finding of these rare pictures, and for that great blogger guy that helped you!

It tells us that if those few businesses were so close to each other at 1145 Market Street, that Farren would have very easy access to just about everything in that little plaza shopping center. Like you said, he could eat, go shopping, and make calls, while doing very little walking.

Remember that bank where Farren had that $40 (approximate) and change? How far was that from 1145 Market Street? It seemed that many businesses and various opportunities were nearby. Farren could chosen to either blend in or even hide in this small area, if we have narrowed the location down, and I think we have. These are amazing finds for an old case like this! Thanks again!

Now where is the attic area where UID #3 was found? Like you said, we might be able to begin to study Farren's routes to that attic and how easily he could or could not have been seen.

Satch

As far as the bank, I don't know where it was, only that it was a Wells Fargo. There was no address for the bank on the unclaimed property site.

The UID 'circumstances' tab said that the UID was found in the northeast corner of the attic - I *think* that would be closest to the street and on the side that is attached to the hotel.

When I try to think why he might have ended up in the attic, my mind gets really jumbled. If he called his grandmother, then his mother, then his grandmother again to say "I love you", it almost sounds like it could be a suicide, but we don't know if both calls to the grandmother were the same day.

If he was staying with a group of young men like he told his family, he might have gone there for privacy with a partner, but we don't know if the group of men existed either.

Or it could be that he didn't have money to pay his rent so he slept in the attic next door.. but he probably wouldn't have left his ID & stuff behind if that was the case.

Was he only there a couple weeks, and would that be long enough for him to find the attic on his own, or would someone have lured him there or shown it to him previously? Was it a regular spot that hotel guests frequented?

We also don't know the cause of death, could it have been someone who died of smoke inhalation during the fire? If that were the case, it wouldn't be Farren unless he was alive 2 years after he went missing, which I doubt.

The fact that the blogger knew about the UID and said there had been stories over the years makes me think it was likely publicized. Maybe there are articles with more details, cause of death, better clothing description, etc. I am not comfortable asking a librarian to look up info on a dead body, but next time I am in the Bay Area I can try to look for it myself. That probably won't be until the holidays, though. Maybe the PD request will have some additional details.

Every answer seems to bring more questions, doesn't it?

 

[Odyssey]

I'm using Firefox,

I right-clicked and Google Searched one of the businesses in the area, Hof's Donuts. This page came up called Past Mapper, and than I clicked on something else that showed some businesses at 1145 Market Street in San Fransisco from an old 1966 city directorty. This is what I found:

http://pastmapper.com/db/1145_Market_Street,_San_Francisco,_California,_USA

If that directory is accurate, that doughnut shop was around from 1966 til approximately 1981 or 1982. The link shows other businesses that were in the area at that time. If the directory is accurate.

Satch

Wow, it looks like Hof's Donuts was the only one that is the same from 1966 - 1980.

All the directories are here if there's anything you want to look up. There's a little slide bar thing at the bottom to move through the directory, I found it after spending quite awhile clicking one page at a time. The 'by address' listings are in the back of the directories.

http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000540401

It would be nice to find someone who could tell us about the attic!

 

[Satch]

Here is a view of a current Google Search for 1145 Market Street in San Francisco. Click on the small map, and you will see an enlarged area of locations. (I had trouble getting a good image size that would be easy to see on the forum.) Therefore, I will just give the link:

https://www.google.com/search?site=...18.0....0...1c.1.49.hp..0.18.1155.mQMEw3DpX4M

Also, today there are two Wells Fargo Banks in the San Francisco area. I Googled, "Wells Fargo Bank", San Fransisco:

What comes up are:

1266 Market Street
2020 Market Street.

If you Google 1145 Market Street in San Francisco to 1266 Market Street in San Fransisco, it is only about a one minute drive time. Now, we don't know if that Well's Fargo address is the same one that stood for that bank in 1980. But if the bank WAS at that location at that time, easy walking distance for Farren as well.

These close locations seem to indicate that Farren didn't need to have a lot of time to do many things quickly. The pain of that UID #3 is really troubling and if those calls that Farren made were in the same day, or even close to the same day, my sad prediction if UID #3 is Farren is the following:

While we don't know how long Farren was in San Francisco, I think that the bad things that happened to him, probably occurred within a months' time. It may have been longer, but I think at the time Farren could have been working at any of those close businesses in the era. Perhaps living a Bohemian life-style, for about a year. We don't know what other cities Farren visited from August of 1979 to May or June of 1980, nor the people he met or the specifics of the relationships he formed. (Except for his visiting the gay friend at the National Hotel.)

Is it known when the young man whom Farren was visiting died of AIDS? In any case, I think he bonded with the gay community. The specifics of this man need further clarification in terms of how do they relate, if at all to his disappearance. I think Farren was very depressed owing debts that he could not pay because of the job loss. Did this man die when Farren was in San Fransisco and because they were so close, the man's death, and Farren's debts rapidly destroyed his will to live? Was Farren discriminated against, assuming he was gay, in the community that he thought would support him? Was the call to his Mother, and her refusal to send him money, his last effort to reach out for help, and she rejected him?

If the "I love you Grandma" and any other consoling conversation that Farren had with her was his last call, it may have tragically been him saying "Goodbye."

Satch

 

[Odyssey]

One more thought - if there was a fire at the building in 1982, would the fire department have gone through the building and seen the UID if he was already there at that time?

Do you guys think it's possible that they might have gone to the 2nd or 3rd floor, saw no damage, and not felt the need to go to any higher floors? The environmental report did specifically state that the fire was on the ground floor.

 

[Satch]

Also, today there are two Wells Fargo Banks in the San Francisco area. I Googled, "Wells Fargo Bank", San Fransisco:

What comes up are:

1266 Market Street
2020 Market Street.

I wonder if it would be possible to find out if the banks are still there, did Farren had that account with the approximately $40 at one of those locations? My guess is yes, most likely at the first address.

A small correction from above. There were actually three Wells Fargo Banks in San Fransisco from Google Search, but two of them are on Market Street.

Satch