CA CA - Farren Stanberry, 18, San Francisco, 24 Apr 1980

[Ciriii57]

the Terderloin Station is the only one without any archival station logs.

Wow I didn't even know there were archives! Frustrating about the Tenderloin, I take it theyre not online records? Stil...maybe something can be found.

Even if someone did hurt Farren on a quiet street I would still expect a body. And even if the police weren't ..."thorough" let's say, they weren't just leaving bodiesin the street. No, the lack of a body has always led me to believe that someone hid it, which makes me think premeditation. JMO

 

[Ciriii57]

It does make sense that Farren would have been regarded as an independent contractor. They are required to pay into Social Security themselves as well as pay taxes themselves so if over a certain amount SS will have record of it , but if this was his new job it was past tax season so it would definitely make sense for Social Security to have no record of him working at this job.

I don't think Marriott was required to report anything to Social Security as it would have been Farren's responsibility to pay into SS during the next tax season. I don't know that for sure. I do know the rest about independent contractors in the US for sure though as I know someone who works as an independent contractor for a flyer delivery company and he always has complicated taxes and he has to pay into Social Security himself. Farren wouldn't have had to pay SS if it was under a certain amount, that is true, I'd assume ( as with taxes). I did read online that companies have to report on a form to the IRS if someone is an independent contractor, but I don't think it's the same for Social Security. So all this would explain why if LE looked at his SS record from before he vanished, that this presumed job wouldn't have been on it. Maybe the Marriot archivist would know if Marriot was required to report independent contractors to SS. They would have had to do that for the IRS, but probably not Social Security.

Thank you for the excellent explanation! So basically as @Odyssey said, he wouldn't have had to worry about it!

Well ok this certainly could explain why he didn't appear in any searches by LE or RC.
Oh yes @Satch to answer your question, no his social security number was never used after he disappeared. The information came from RC but I can't believe LE didn't also check.

 

[Maat99]

I emailed her with some of our questions and she has gotten straight back to me!



So what does this mean in terms of Farren? Does it mean that he never made any social security contributions so in that case they would have no record of him? That does make sense of the fact that neither LE nor RC could seem to find out anything about his job? Or would he still be on record just because he had a job?
Does that mean that Farren, and others like him, were expected to work out and pay his own taxes? I can't imagine me at 18 having any clue about how to do that!! Or could it be that they just didn't bother? I just can't imagine me being able to plan in advance to save up for a big tax bill?!

I really can’t understand how this ticket selling was supposed to work. She says:
“The ticketbooks, maps and other material would have been sent to persons who then distributed them between the sales team.”

This part makes a little bit of sense in that I can’t imagine Marriott sending ticketbooks and all of these materials to a bunch of random individuals who sign up to sell tickets. Couldn’t you just sell the tickets to tourists and pocket all the money?

It would make more sense to send the materials to an established partner OR have the ticket seller prepay for tickets at a reduced cost and then they keep the money they make when they make a sale - like an MLM type deal.
But would Farren really do all of that or be able to afford it?

Maybe that person distributing the tickets was a Marriott employee (Isomeone like our Marriott sales person Peter Hume)
He would assemble his sales team of contractors and maybe even manage the actual exchange of money for tickets as the contractors made sales. Lastly, he would report back to Marriott what was sold so they could cut commission checks for the contractors.
Idk it is very confusing.

 

[Ciriii57]

I really can’t understand how this ticket selling was supposed to work. She says:
“The ticketbooks, maps and other material would have been sent to persons who then distributed them between the sales team.”

This part makes a little bit of sense in that I can’t imagine Marriott sending ticketbooks and all of these materials to a bunch of random individuals who sign up to sell tickets. Couldn’t you just sell the tickets to tourists and pocket all the money?

It would make more sense to send the materials to an established partner OR have the ticket seller prepay for tickets at a reduced cost and then they keep the money they make when they make a sale - like an MLM type deal.
But would Farren really do all of that or be able to afford it?

Maybe that person distributing the tickets was a Marriott employee (Isomeone like our Marriott sales person Peter Hume)
He would assemble his sales team of contractors and maybe even manage the actual exchange of money for tickets as the contractors made sales. Lastly, he would report back to Marriott what was sold so they could cut commission checks for the contractors.
Idk it is very confusing.

I live in a very touristy area in Malta. How this works here is that the ticket seller is given the tickets etc and then approaches tourists. The tickets are all numbered and have duplicates. You put your initials on the one you give to the buyer and the duplicate remains with you. The ticketbook goes back to your supervisor at the end of each day and he verifies sales and collects the money. Then you only get commission once the ticket with your initials has been used.

I can't say whether this is the same system that was used but it may have been something similar. I am sure there would have been a tally by someone at the end of the day.
I suppose it's possible the person could take the money from the ticket sales but that would only work one day and I'd guess it's better to be honest and actually get a wage?

 

[Maat99]

I live in a very touristy area in Malta. How this works here is that the ticket seller is given the tickets etc and then approaches tourists. The tickets are all numbered and have duplicates. You put your initials on the one you give to the buyer and the duplicate remains with you. The ticketbook goes back to your supervisor at the end of each day and he verifies sales and collects the money. Then you only get commission once the ticket with your initials has been used.

I can't say whether this is the same system that was used but it may have been something similar. I am sure there would have been a tally by someone at the end of the day.
I suppose it's possible the person could take the money from the ticket sales but that would only work one day and I'd guess it's better to be honest and actually get a wage?

I absolutely agree it works if you have someone in the supervisor role on site. That is exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Ciriii57]

It never rains but it pours! Ok so,

Sgt Rand emailed me, he never received my first email asking the questions about Social security checks by LE and if he knows why Farren's mum refused to send his money etc so I have asked the questions again.
Most importantly he has given me the contact details of Richard Tirico who was the officer from John Day Police who was originally handling Farren's case. He is retired now but is happy to answer any questions and I will of course be messaging him!
He gave me his contact details because I asked him if he knew the details about the "gay man". Sgt Rand has no idea but thinks Tirico might know. This actually concerns me because ...why is this information not in Farren's case file?

Well we'll see and if course I will update you all!

 

[Odyssey]

It never rains but it pours! Ok so,

Sgt Rand emailed me, he never received my first email asking the questions about Social security checks by LE and if he knows why Farren's mum refused to send his money etc so I have asked the questions again.
Most importantly he has given me the contact details of Richard Tirico who was the officer from John Day Police who was originally handling Farren's case. He is retired now but is happy to answer any questions and I will of course be messaging him!
He gave me his contact details because I asked him if he knew the details about the "gay man". Sgt Rand has no idea but thinks Tirico might know. This actually concerns me because ...why is this information not in Farren's case file?

Well we'll see and if course I will update you all!

Tirico was great too, he got the ball rolling on finding or getting a new DNA sample and also seemed to really want to find Farren.

 

[summergirl1]

I had wondered why you hadn't heard back from Sgt Rand. I'm glad you finally heard from him. I wonder what he will think of the possibility that Farren was likely an independent contractor at his new job and thus, given the circumstances, Social Security would have no record of it. I can see something happening to Farren as a ticket seller, but it could have been something else that happened on the way to or from work or after work before he started to go back to the hotel, too. The John Doe mentioned found near that bridge is interesting. It sounds like someone else most likely, but having that John Doe ruled out would be good.

 

[Maat99]

It never rains but it pours! Ok so,

Sgt Rand emailed me, he never received my first email asking the questions about Social security checks by LE and if he knows why Farren's mum refused to send his money etc so I have asked the questions again.
Most importantly he has given me the contact details of Richard Tirico who was the officer from John Day Police who was originally handling Farren's case. He is retired now but is happy to answer any questions and I will of course be messaging him!
He gave me his contact details because I asked him if he knew the details about the "gay man". Sgt Rand has no idea but thinks Tirico might know. This actually concerns me because ...why is this information not in Farren's case file?

Well we'll see and if course I will update you all!

That’s fantastic! If you think it is appropriate, I would also like see if he can answer some of our other questions:
1. if any explanation was give for why Farren was dropped of at a remote campsite + was he meeting someone?
2. if any concrete information was ever provided about stops made before SF
3. What happened to the items Farren left at the hotel after he went missing?
You are amazing for doing all of this legwork.

 

[Ciriii57]

I had wondered why you hadn't heard back from Sgt Rand. I'm glad you finally heard from him. I wonder what he will think of the possibility that Farren was likely an independent contractor at his new job and thus, given the circumstances, Social Security would have no record of it. I can see something happening to Farren as a ticket seller, but it could have been something else that happened on the way to or from work or after work before he started to go back to the hotel, too. The John Doe mentioned found near that bridge is interesting. It sounds like someone else most likely, but having that John Doe ruled out would be good.

Well I have also told Sgt Rand about the John Doe and also about the "possibility" of what we think Farren's job might have been from the unclaimed check and the comments from Marriott. I have made sure he knows it's still speculation at this stage but also our reasons for strongly thinking it is Farren so I wonder what he'll say.
I have no idea why my first email didn't reach him. I checked my sent folder and its there ...I hope my emails aren't being blocked that's all I need!

 

[Ciriii57]

Thanks @Maat99 ! I don't mind at all I just hope it gets us closer to the truth!

Yes it is appropriate to ask any questions and I'm happy to forward them on

1. if any explanation was give for why Farren was dropped of at a remote campsite + was he meeting someone?

I asked this before and was told that he was dropped at that campsite but this was prior to him going to San Francisco originally. The use of the word "originally" here bothers me because it implies he went to SF at least Twice.
This information came from a letter Farren's Aunt wrote to a local paper praising the work Sgt Rand did. I don't want to ask him again but I can ask Tirico if he knows something more. Especially if he was meeting someone.

2. if any concrete information was ever provided about stops made before SF

I just asked him this now actually! Great minds...

3. What happened to the items Farren left at the hotel after he went missing?

I have asked this before but never received a response beyond "what few possessions he had were left in his room". But I will definitely ask Tirico because I think it's important.

Regarding this, I'm wondering what ID Farren would have had at the time? I don't believe he could drive so do you carry ID cards in The US? Birth certificate? What ID would he need to get a job and open a bank account?
And depending what it was, would someone just throw it out? Or do you have to return it somewhere? If his things were never returned to the family, then I can understand clothes being thrown out but not important personal papers??

 

[Ciriii57]

Could anyone let me know the average time it gets dark in SF in late April, May and June?
And does anyone have any idea when ticket sellers are most active? I'm guessing they might start at 9 but do they work til late? I'm guessing you would target mostly families with teens for a theme park so when would the tourists be off the streets. Here they sometimes work until 10pm.

I'm thinking logically if something happened to Farren before or after work then it was probably when it was dark when people would be less likely to see. Although...was SF a 24 HR city back then? Would it be light and full of people on Market and Union Square at all times? If so, would Farren most likely have been in a less busy street?
If course he may well have gone willingly with someone bad.

I'm also curious about the street behind the National Hotel, Stevenson, today it looks really dodgy and I wonder what it was like back then before the civic centre was built. If it was as dark and creepy as it is today then I wonder who would linger there. The hotel has a back door into this street and most of the buildings look like they would have back then I think. Have a look on Google maps if your interested.

 

[summergirl1]

Farren could have gotten an ID card if he didn't drive. I'd assume he had one. And he must have had a copy of his Social Security card. He probably had a copy of his birth certificate, but if he had ID and an SS card those would have been most important. They don't have to be returned anywhere, and possibly they were thrown out. I do wonder what happened to his possessions too. A Social Security card and ID card would have been fine to and I'd assume required to open a bank account
back then as well as today. 1980 was before my time..I wonder also what happened to any mail that might have shown up for him at the hotel after he vanished. Did anyone at the hotel ( assuming all they knew was he left for work and never came back) suspect anything was amiss at first or did they just think maybe he'd come back after awhile or that he had moved on?

 

[Satch]

Thanks @Maat99 ! I don't mind at all I just hope it gets us closer to the truth!

Yes it is appropriate to ask any questions and I'm happy to forward them on

I asked this before and was told that he was dropped at that campsite but this was prior to him going to San Francisco originally. The use of the word "originally" here bothers me because it implies he went to SF at least Twice.
This information came from a letter Farren's Aunt wrote to a local paper praising the work Sgt Rand did. I don't want to ask him again but I can ask Tirico if he knows something more. Especially if he was meeting someone.

I just asked him this now actually! Great minds...

I have asked this before but never received a response beyond "what few possessions he had were left in his room". But I will definitely ask Tirico because I think it's important.

Regarding this, I'm wondering what ID Farren would have had at the time? I don't believe he could drive so do you carry ID cards in The US? Birth certificate? What ID would he need to get a job and open a bank account?
And depending what it was, would someone just throw it out? Or do you have to return it somewhere? If his things were never returned to the family, then I can understand clothes being thrown out but not important personal papers??

Great work!

In the USA you can get your temporary driver's license at 15 and a half years. (Requires an adult who is a responsible driver in the car.) At 16 years, you have to take your written exam and road test. If you pass both, you can get a driver's license.

Satch

 

[Satch]

If Farren was killed, what do you think?

1.) He was taken by force unknowingly moving to a place. For example attacked on the street?

2.) He was lured away through "false trust?" (This would include looking for new work after losing his job through an ad in that gay San Francisco paper.) They got him inside. Than the force occurred when Farren resisted. In this example Farren CHOOSES a bad destiny.

3.) He committed suicide? Farren here also chooses a bad destiny.

4.) Not enough evidence to make a conclusion.

#2 is still my choice.

Satch

 

[Ciriii57]

Good Morning Guys,
So these were the questions I had asked Sgt Rand:
1)I know it was established that Farren's social security number hadn't been used since his disappearance but was it ever checked for his employment history while in San Francisco? And similarly his Wells Fargo account to see where his money came from?
2) Do you know why Farren's mum refused to send him his money when he asked? Did she just want him to come home or was there a concern about how he would spend it?
3)Is there any indication at all about how long he'd been in San Francisco prior to April 26th? And also do we know where he visited when he went East?

and below is the response I received over night:

I wish I had an answer for those questions, there’s just not a lot of information in the case file. Rich would probably be your best bet for someone to remember what had transpired.

Ok so I think we have to accept at this point that that Farren's case file is pretty slim and doesn't contain the answers we seek. I would guess we know as much as the official file. So hopefully Rich Tirico will have the answers we seek, I get the impression that he may know some of the family history and certain facts that never made it into the official file (I don't know why, maybe they wouldn't record anything not relevant to the actual disappearance itself, though personally I think it's all relevant) Plus he is in John Day itself and may know the family.

I plan to email him next week when I've got it straight in my head what to write and the questions we should ask- so everyone please let me know if there's something relevant you want to ask. I had figured I would start from the beginning (Farren leaving for the East and the campsite oddity) and work my way through to his disappearance asking our questions in chronological order of the events. I also am going to tell him we have an interest in Farren's story and background -i know I do- to both get an idea of what he was feeling at the time an also to keep his memory alive (Medford, mother and father etc) I also want him to let the Colbeths know that people from all over the world are still looking for him!
Hmmm I guess I should probably send an email introducing myself first and asking if he wouldn't mind before I launch all this at him!

I had also asked Sgt Rand if he knew whether Farren's best friend was still around. He has never heard of him! Perhaps Tirico may know because oddly, he also seemed to drop off the face of the planet right after his Sophomore year....!

 

[Ciriii57]

Did anyone at the hotel ( assuming all they knew was he left for work and never came back) suspect anything was amiss at first or did they just think maybe he'd come back after awhile or that he had moved on?

Good question!
It's a bit odd that his roommates never reported him missing, especially if they were also his friends? They knew he went to work that day so presumably knew he never returned, I wonder how long it had been? If he was despondent/unhappy or said he was leaving you'd think they'd mention it.
As for the hotel, well they knew he'd disappeared by the time his grandma called, but they probably only realised as he owed them money. And I do wonder if that was all that unusual at this hotel, it's likely that a hotel catering to homeless and transients often had stuff left in rooms that was just thrown away as crap left behind. Since there was no missing persons report in SF, so no LE would have stopped by, and perhaps no contact from family members they probably had no reason to keep Farren's stuff- unfortunately it probably went to landfill.
But I will ask Tirico- there's a chance his family got it back.
Since RC later knew Farren's Social Security Number to be able to get it checked that might suggest he has his SS card? Or would this be available on other documents Farren may have left at home?

 

[Odyssey]

I plan to email him next week when I've got it straight in my head what to write and the questions we should ask- so everyone please let me know if there's something relevant you want to ask.

i think the most important question would be whether he knows the name of anyone who knew Farren in SF. (Roommates, etc)

And does he have any idea whether he disappeared from the hotel closer to when Farren called his grandmother or closer to when his grandmother called the hotel? When his grandmother called, did they specify "yesterday", "a couple weeks ago", etc.

Did the belongings left behind include his wallet, things he would normally have taken with him to work?

 

[Ciriii57]

i think the most important question would be whether he knows the name of anyone who knew Farren in SF. (Roommates, etc)

And does he have any idea whether he disappeared from the hotel closer to when Farren called his grandmother or closer to when his grandmother called the hotel? When his grandmother called, did they specify "yesterday", "a couple weeks ago", etc.

Did the belongings left behind include his wallet, things he would normally have taken with him to work?

Oh definitely that's a given the questions regarding his actual disappearance are the first and most important.

I would add to this the name or location of the gay man and if the family ever learned where Farren was working? Maybe even called them?

 

[Ciriii57]

Ok I emailed Tirico, I couldn't wait until Monday!
For now I have asked him the pertinent questions regarding his disappearance and time in SF. (Known names of anyone in SF; roommate info, the gay man, hotel staff, if he knows about Farrens job, if he can narrow down the timeframe of his disappearance, what happened to his possessions and what they were and why his mother refused to send his money)
I didn't want to overload him with a thousand questions but asked if he wouldn't mind answering other questions in the future relating to Farren's travels and family etc. It's best to see how he responds before I ask more I think. It was already quite a long email.