GUILTY CA - Gavin Smith, 57, Oak Park, 1 May 2012

[JodyMT]

I have been looking at a map of the Sylmar area again. The Smith family started their canvas immediately east of the #5 Golden Gate Freeway at Encinitas and Roxford. At that location directly across that highway (on the west) is a large body of water (unnamed on the map). It appears to have a man made boundary entirely around it. And then to the north west there is about 6 water segments that are labelled VanNorman Lake. Are there any locals on here that could clarify more about these water spots ? I am wondering if there would be access to dump a car there ??? That could explain the disappearance of Gavin's Mercedes and I wonder if LE has searched these areas ? When the cell phone hit the water, it would have stopped working ... thus explaining the last ping area.

I don't know, it looks like there is a fence around it, and a canal as well. It looks like a water treatment plant to me. There is definitely a guard shack at the entrance. There also looks like there is a boat ramp, or at least a road that leads into the water that could be used as a boat ramp, even though I doubt it is used for that.

I am thinking it probably isn't easy to get in there.

 

[2rose]

I don't know, it looks like there is a fence around it, and a canal as well. It looks like a water treatment plant to me. There is definitely a guard shack at the entrance. There also looks like there is a boat ramp, or at least a road that leads into the water that could be used as a boat ramp, even though I doubt it is used for that. I am thinking it probably isn't easy to get in there.

I have googled it and saw it referenced as the VanNorman Reservoir ... the large spot is a called a "drainage basin"; and also mention of fishing at the northern sections ... so that part at least sounds accessible!

http://www.fishingworks.com/lakes/california/los-angeles/san-fernando/upper-van-norman-lake/

 

[2rose]

If someone wanted a quick getaway, there is the Whiteman Airport at southeast Sylmar.

 

[Seek&Find]

Uh oh. I just looked at that area on Google. There's a large reservoir right there. Wonder if they've done searches there. Retaining ponds, some industrial and/or construction area. SAR should have a look around there. A grassy, treed area...

It's also near the LAPD training facility. Restaurants, hotels, a gas station, residential areas.

Bumping my prev post.

Hoping these areas have been searched, or will be, if there is significance to Sylmar regarding Gavin's disappearance.

 

[JodyMT]

I do hope the border crossings and airports have been checked. I don't think if Gavin wanted to leave and not be found that he would go by plane…too many records are kept. I can see him going across the mexican border. That would definitely explain why he and the car haven't been found and would explain why Evan seems detached.

That is just one opinion of many that bounce around with me.

 

[Seek&Find]

The cover pages of a sealed search warrant affidavit that referenced the address of the home, signed by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge on May 21, said detectives had probable cause that an unspecified felony had been committed at the residence.

link

BBM. Hadn't noticed that wording before. Makes sense given the judge issued the warrant, but it's good to remember there must be probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

Also noticed in a previously posted article that the Smith fam & friends distributed 550 flyers. That's a lot of flyers! Glad MSM covered the canvass too. Good to keep his face & info out there, and let people know he's still missing. Hopefully, not for much longer.

 

[JodyMT]

link

BBM. Hadn't noticed that wording before. Makes sense given the judge issued the warrant, but it's good to remember there must be probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

Also noticed in a previously posted article that the Smith fam & friends distributed 550 flyers. That's a lot of flyers! Glad MSM covered the canvass too. Good to keep his face & info out there, and let people know he's still missing. Hopefully, not for much longer.

Yes, and don't you just love the wording they used. "unspecified felony" is pretty broad, and I am sure that was done on purpose. If the cops didn't have enough evidence to get a warrant about Gavin, they could always use John being a drug dealer as a reason to gain access.

 

[Seek&Find]

Yes, and don't you just love the wording they used. "unspecified felony" is pretty broad, and I am sure that was done on purpose. If the cops didn't have enough evidence to get a warrant about Gavin, they could always use John being a drug dealer as a reason to gain access.

The warrant and the information contained in it has been ordered sealed by a judge. There are very specific, limited criteria that must be met for a warrant to be sealed. See Superior Court of CA Search Warrant Sealing Order here.

CA Evidence Code 1040, 1041 as referenced in sealing order

Since it's sealed, it seems reasonable that the specific felony suspected is not listed on its cover. Probable cause, per online law resources, goes beyond just a suspicion but does not have to be equal to "beyond a reasonable doubt". Officers must present evidence, information, and/or affidavits to support their request for a warrant and a judge evaluates that info to determine whether it rises to probable cause in support of issuing a warrant, or does not. It can't be obtained simply because someone was convicted for a crime previously. So, no fishing expeditions.

CA Penal Code re: search warrants

So, as LE stated, this warrant was served in relation to Gavin's disappearance, not because of Creech's convictions. It will be interesting reading if it's ever released.

 

[nothingnew]

I also would like to know why Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said the area canvassed had "no significance" to the investigation.

What does that mean? If that was where his cell phone was last pinged, why wouldn't that be significant? If it isn't important to the investigation, why tell the family that would be a good place to put up flyers?

He said he was giving the family general directions, but then says the area is of no significance. If I was Lisa, I would be having a very long chat with this guy.

I understood that to mean that there is not an established connection between the Smith family and Sylmar. THAT would make it significant, if Gavin had been known to frequent that area. With pings it is just that, the phone pinged there so that is why they are canvassing. jmo

 

[2rose]

I understood that to mean that there is not an established connection between the Smith family and Sylmar. THAT would make it significant, if Gavin had been known to frequent that area. With pings it is just that, the phone pinged there so that is why they are canvassing. jmo

Thanks for your explanation because I also thought that statement sounded "bad" and would have hurt the family's feelings. It is unfortunate that the statement can be misinterpreted ... more "vague" or unclear LE statements, I guess.

 

[Libralove]

There were pings all over the valley one media source said that night and on the original Find Gavin Smith page, and also pings in Simi Valley where one of Gavin's friends wrote he never went there and had no connections there.

The fact that the new Sylmar poster has no picture of Gavin (only the car) speaks volumes and this is where LE told the family to put the posters up -- the place of last ping and likely end point for car w/o Gavin.

It's possible LE has everything they need to proceed with charges except the car and body. With enough other evidence, they can charge someone without a body. But finding out exactly who disposed of that car and where, (presumably in Sylmar) would be another important thing to fill in the details for the impending charges.

 

[Seek&Find]

There were pings all over the valley one media source said that night and on the original Find Gavin Smith page, and also pings in Simi Valley where one of Gavin's friends wrote he never went there and had no connections there.

The fact that the new Sylmar poster has no picture of Gavin (only the car) speaks volumes and this is where LE told the family to put the posters up -- the place of last ping and likely end point for car w/o Gavin.

It's possible LE has everything they need to proceed with charges except the car and body. With enough other evidence, they can charge someone without a body. But finding out exactly who disposed of that car and where, (presumably in Sylmar) would be another important thing to fill in the details for the impending charges.

Good catch regarding the focus on the car! Just saw the video here. "Detectives would like us to focus on the car. It's just something that is so evident in the investigation." Statement at :58 in video. (Yes, it's HuffPo, but a video of the canvass is hard to get wrong.) Looks like there were some of the posters with Gavin's face posted and handed out, but most were of the car.

There's a flyer marked "Special Bulletin" with only the car with roof rack on it in the video that looks to be from LASD. Has anyone seen an image of it? It'd be good to post here. I couldn't find it on a quick perusal of nixie or the LASD website, but will search more thoroughly later. I can try a screen grab from the vid later when I'm on my computer (hard on a mobile device) if it hasn't been posted here by then.

I agree. Sounds like LE thinks the car and cell were likely in Sylmar last. Could've been taken to a chop shop there, or stored somewhere in Sylmar, or ditched. It's also possible this was where the phone lost power or was powered down, but that it's not the final place the car and/or cell ended up, ie speculation that the car was passing through this area is also valid, IMO. But, if there were multiple pings in that area/from one tower for an extended period of time, in addition to being the last ping location, that may lead LE to focus here even more.

Again, hoping those bodies of water nearby (near the LAPD training facility) have been searched.

Seems LE is building their case. With the sealing of the warrant, they're keeping evidence back intentionally with good merit. Leaning towards LE releasing bits of info through the family to garner Sylmar leads without LE directly stating things, which might get the warrant unsealed and compromise the investigation.

We may know more by July 26, John Creech's new sentencing date.

Moo

 

[2rose]

There were pings all over the valley one media source said that night and on the original Find Gavin Smith page, and also pings in Simi Valley where one of Gavin's friends wrote he never went there and had no connections there

Since leaving his family home, Gavin stayed in Oak Park which is in SIMI HILLS (per wikipedia with map)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_California

Being unfamiliar with the Los Angeles area, I at first took note of the name "Simi" and did not pay close attention to the the following descriptive words of "hills / valley" till you pointed it out. Apparently the Santa Susana Mountains to the north separate Simi Valley from the the Simi Hills to the south.

The fact that the new Sylmar poster has no picture of Gavin (only the car) speaks volumes and this is where LE told the family to put the posters up -- the place of last ping and likely end point for car w/o Gavin

The video "I" saw showed that the family made postings that includeded TWO pages - one with photo of Gavin and the other one with photo of his car.

I noticed right away that the video started with the reporter standing in front of a pole the family had posted with BOTH pages. There were further poles shown also with 2 pages posted.

The original video has since been replaced with a new video ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/gavin-smith-search-contin_n_1660069.html

and you can see even more clearly that there were 2 different pages ... you can even actually read what the pages say.

This new video also shows one quick shot of a pole being posted with THREE
different pages about Gavin's missing status.

In this forum Seek&Find gave his OPINION that 550 was a lot of fliers to leave ...
but just for ACCURACY IN READING MEDIA STATEMENTS ...

With 2 separate pages given out or posted at a time,
550 fliers left means
225 UNIQUE handouts or postings
by at least 6 people (sister, wife, 3 sons & possibly a son's girlfriend? ... as shown in video) ...
but probably more people were involved because the articles say the family was helped by volunteers from their church (the video shows at least one young woman with long dark hair).

So the average MAXIMUM for those 6 people was 37 unique handouts or postings by each.

 

[2rose]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/gavin-smith-search-contin_n_1660069.html

"Friends and family of missing Fox executive Gavin Smith canvassed Sylmar, Calif. Sunday, plastering posters of his face and the black Mercedes he was last seen driving on storefronts and restaurants around town"

This is what I was talking about when I made my previous statement ...

Recently on the Headline News channel, I saw how LE caught the murderer of a young woman who went missing while bicycling home. He was traced because LE collected LOCAL SURVELLANCE FOOTAGE of the vehicle (and license plate) that followed her. So I hope they are using that strategy for Gavin.

I was NOT talking about the license plate readers that Seek&Find followed up with.

So apparently Gavin was indeed in the town of Sylmar ... presumably some time before @4:30am
... but of course law enforcement would have the exact time.

So glad we finally found out that LE did use that tool !
It certainly clarifies that some unknown 3rd person was NOT the one who took the car to Sylmar.

-----

NOTE: I couldn't find the delete, so I am making a corection.
My first read of that statement assumed that Gavin was caught ON CAMERA by storefront video surveillance ...
but later readings revealed the statement could be read another way ...
that it was the paper pages that were placed on storefronts.

 

[2rose]

i knew smith way back when and know the valley really well. mr smith was periodically mia of his own free will several times in the past

WELCOME NoSherlock !
It is good to have a local here to clarify things ...
it is great that you knew his personally and can shed some character insights !

 

[nosherlock]

sorry if my mention of a reward (included with irony) misled anyone. i don't have any personal interest in that and am in fact now living 600 miles away from the focus point of the search. my post was only a recap of the known info anyway so "twas hardly a 'casebreaker'. let's not jump to conclusions here re: motivations to post. still, cases are solved by all sorts of odd means and if websleuth awareness leads to something, so be it. i'd really like to see resolution and closure for the sake of the family and chums of gavin's...old and current. still, if a websleuther did 'solve' the thing and got the reward i'd have the same feeling i did when a kid from my little league team made the big leagues. if my post helps open lines of thought and provides food for thought for my fellow wannabe detectives that would be my intention....pure and simple.

 

[Seek&Find]

Since leaving his family home, Gavin stayed in Oak Park which is in SIMI HILLS (per wikipedia with map)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_California

Being unfamiliar with the Los Angeles area, I at first took note of the name "Simi" and did not pay close attention to the the following descriptive words of "hills / valley" till you pointed it out. Apparently the Santa Susana Mountains to the north separate Simi Valley from the the Simi Hills to the south.
<snipped>.

SBM

We need a local to translate all the locations and relationship between them, lol.

Looks like there is a valley named Simi Valley and a city within the valley, also called Simi Valley. Link

Simi Hills is the name of "low rocky mountain range". Simi Hills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Simi Hills is also the name of a community within the Simi Valley. Link

I haven't seen the friend's comment re: Simi Valley pings LL mentioned..?? It does look like people on findgavinsmith.com have mentioned many places though, like Topanga Canyon, Kanan (a road, I think), Malibu, so perhaps Simi Valley was discussed there too??

LE's comment re: "bouncing around the valley" seems vague, but given that West Hills (where Gavin's home is), Canoga Park (Creeches' home), and Sylmar (alleged last ping location) are all in the San Fernando Valley, I think there referring to SFV in referencing "the valley". I'm guessing it's easier for locals to decipher the location lingo. It's hard to find a good map for all these areas by name, IMO.

 

[shefner]

Oh my gosh! Is that why some people come here ... for the reward ???
I just came out of interest in the case.

I had just recently been wondering what the point was in bumping old messages again ...
so now I can understand why a poster might place importance on being the first to specify an idea
- in order to get credited with any reward. I guess it takes all kinds of people and I am naive.

Rest assured that most members at WS are here simply to help find the missing because we care. I don't know of any member who has collected a reward....and I have never seen it spoken of as if a member might be here for that purpose.

 

[Seek&Find]

<snipped>
The video "I" saw showed that the family made postings that includeded TWO pages - one with photo of Gavin and the other one with photo of his car.

I noticed right away that the video started with the reporter standing in front of a pole the family had posted with BOTH pages. There were further poles shown also with 2 pages posted.

The original video has since been replaced with a new video ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/gavin-smith-search-contin_n_1660069.html

and you can see even more clearly that there were 2 different pages ... you can even actually read what the pages say.

This new video also shows one quick shot of a pole being posted with THREE
different pages about Gavin's missing status.

SBM Yes, this is the same video I linked and referenced above showing canvassers posting several different styles of posters (a good idea to draw people's eyes to all of them, IMO).

The one that caught my eye (and I think LL's, but not speaking for her) was the one with only the car marked "Special Bulletin", and it does appear to be new, as LL stated, at least in relation to the posters we have here.

"Special Bulletins" appear to be issued by LASD.

according to a special bulletin distributed Friday by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department

Previous Special Bulletin for Gavin with his pic only here.

It'd be interesting to see/find the new one.

Moo

 

[Seek&Find]

<snipped>
In this forum Seek&Find gave his OPINION that 550 was a lot of fliers to leave ...
but just for ACCURACY IN READING MEDIA STATEMENTS ...

With 2 separate pages given out or posted at a time,
550 fliers left means
225 UNIQUE handouts or postings
by at least 6 people (sister, wife, 3 sons & possibly a son's girlfriend? ... as shown in video) ...
but probably more people were involved because the articles say the family was helped by volunteers from their church (the video shows at least one young woman with long dark hair).

So the average MAXIMUM for those 6 people was 37 unique handouts or postings by each.

SBM

Yes, whether that's a lot of flyers is subjective...:waitasec:

That's my opinion based on following cases at WS. Not sure what trying to average them out per person does...

And I'm a woman.

For new posters, this would be considered a thread (for Gavin) within the Missing Forum Discussion sub forum. To decode WS lingo.