GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[SDHELPS]

Just caught up on this case. Very strange!

Re Ilana's 911 call - I haven't heard any of it, but I will say that head injuries (including gun shot) can sometimes involve an isolated segment of the brain that may impact on the person's abilities (particularly emotional/cognitive/physical) without affecting other functions. TravelingBug, I'd love to know what her emotional levels were like in the call - did she sound flat, non-emotive? Confusion is common, so even if she seemed calm, she may have been struggling with comprehension, memory issues, etc. Then as the brain bleed progressed, she would have deteriorated and more functions would have been affected.

I keep jumping between potential scenarios - I do hope Gianni isn't responsible, but the flipside of that is maybe it was a professional hit and he was taken and hurt somewhere else. After reading the last few pages of posts, I can't help but wonder if there is something bigger going on, and this is some sort of payback, warning.

Here are two more way out (!!) possibilities - seems like everything's worth considering right now with such little reporting.

-could there have been a ransom, and only certain family members are aware (not the ones speaking out)?
-could Gianni be caught up in something, and the FBI, etc have him somewhere safe, but they are keeping this quiet to try to apprehend the shooter/s?

Both these scenarios could explain the lack of new info, the withdrawal of info, and confusion amongst family members.

I warned you they were way out!!!

BBM I like it! Both of these possibilities make as much sense as the obvious, which IMO the obvious is not what happened. Hope that all made sense???

Welcome Strangeworld!!!!!!:seeya:

 

[Curious Me]

BBM This view intrigues me the most. Going back to how often did Sal borrow his fathers car. And yes, why would GB carry on such a brazen act in a public place when I'm sure there were more secluded opportunities. Of course if it was done in a fit of jealous rage that would change that theory but IMO that was not the case.

This case will get quite fast if nothing else comes up (as TravelingBug mentioned). I did not see anything this morning on the news and very little last night. Here is an article out of Utah that is most recent.

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...cle_1eee2fc3-5cbf-5762-82ea-b765ac30b400.html

The crimes happened in San Diego, and yet we aren't hearing much about Gianni still being missing here.

Apparently, the family, or Uncle Otto, is convinced Gianni could've headed to Utah. LE is not disputing this, or so it seems. You'd think we'd be hearing more about searching for Gianni here in San Diego. Recent local news reports just seem to go with the Uncle's theory and the Utah story because they don't have anything else released by LE.

What am I suppose to think as a news viewer of this case?

His brother and beloved fiancé are gunned down in the mall, and he is innocent of any involvement, but he takes off to Utah supposedly too scared to contact his family or come forward. I think it sounds hinky.

 

[jash]

BBM It was Uncle Otto who stated that Sal borrowed his brother's (being Sal's father) car. It was both in print and video but dang if I can find it :blushing:

“Sal picked up Ilona in my brother’s car,” his uncle said. “Gianni was driving the other car. For what reason, I have no clue.”

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/02/tp-family-of-slain-man-plead-for-brothers-return/

 

[Advocate1]

I think we're missing like 80% of the pieces :scared:

And the above does give me some pause (though again, we see that in most cases, so...?) BUT then that also makes them being targeted seem very unlikely, b/c unless it was a hit because of something family related, then they shouldn't have been into anything that would have placed them in danger (at least as consequences of something) -assuming family depiction is accurate.

But then how in the world could it be random and get ALL of them, even though they clearly couldn't (IMO) all have been together when it happened (b/c then how did Gianni's car disappear or how did an unclaimed car not arise if he ditched his car and took Gianni's.

I seriously hope they have a TON of info we don't know, assuming they ever do find Gianni one way or the other, because unless there's something really damning that has absolutely not been insinuated, it sure doesn't seem likely they'd have enough to arrest someone for murder, let alone get someone convicted for it. With really no scenario seeming to not have some pretty substantial possible holes to be filled to probably sway people away from all the things that could seem to make everything a cause for doubt.

Assuming we don't really get much more than this for awhile, I think it'll be interesting to see if they ever end up changing Gianni's status (based on whatever they know) either to suspect or clearing him altogether as a presumed victim. That would pick things up again if they decided to strategically release it.

Yeah we are missing a lot of info. If LE knows Gianni was there and believe he saw everything then they know if he was a victim or a perpetrator. For some reason LE doesn't want to release that info. Hmmmm puzzles me.

 

[TravelingBug]

As for Gianni, “He was there. They know he was there,” Belvedere told the TV station. “They have an idea that he saw everything and he was there.”

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jan/02/tp-family-of-slain-man-plead-for-brothers-return/

How do they know that Gianni was there and believe he saw everything? Was he ID's by someone or what evidence leads them to believe this? We are not getting that part piece of information and it seems LE doesnt want that info out there. Why? If Gianni is a suspect and say LE has him ID'd as the shooter. What would be the benefit to LE withholding that info and playing down stuff? What is the benefit in not naming him as a suspect if LE knows he was involved? In having trouble understanding how LE could know for a fact Gianni was there and believe he saw everything but not know if he is a suspect or a victim. That doesn't make sense to me.

I think some of the articles didn't include the part he said after that:

"It is said he was there, he was there, they know he was there," Otto said.

Gianni's uncle clarified with CBS News 8 on the phone Thursday what police have told the family.

"After checking with them (my nieces), evidently it's not what they said," Otto said.

I think he either sort of fabricated what he believed they were told initially or it was wishful thinking or...?

I'm honestly not sure LE would necessarily confirm that either way to the family at this point since the person missing is also family, despite that they're the family of one of the crime victims as well.

And I'm also not sure if his 'oh oops' statement even means that they have confirmation either way or if it's really just that he didn't understand that they may not given confirmation either way.

The fact that they've not released it, like you said, makes me think there's a strategic reason for that or that they just flat out don't know anything conclusively yet (though I doubt that)

If the family does know, the fact that LE isn't releasing it would surely mean they were told not to either I would think. In which case, then either the uncle had to have made the entire thing up basically, piecing together things along with what he seems to want to be the case. And while IF he knew something he shouldn't have told, since LE didn't, but family shouldn't really have told him either likely.

To be honest, I wonder if they may believe someone somehow connected DOES know something and may be covering up some info to try to protect someone or even maybe someone else being involved as well and that they may slip and spill or do something that would give LE more info.

Now if this totally cools down for quite some time, I could see that being released just to try to flush things/info out.

More importantly, as to the Gianni status part, I think they're not saying he is a suspect because if they have reason to believe he's alive and fled out of fear OR because of involvement, I'm thinking they are expecting he may reach out to his family or someone or even come home altogether if he thinks they only think he is missing and not involved (or even just thinking his family will stand with him regardless)

But like the confirmation one way at the mall, I could see this changing as well if things stay quiet (assuming they need leads) they might release it to try that as a tactic to flush him out, but also just to get it back in in the news could be a possibility.

There was a missing pastor's wife brutally killed in AL (we've got a thread in one of the other threads - crimes in the news I think?) and LE hardly said anything. It really seemed like there wasn't going to be a break. Just this week they arrested her husband as he was getting ready to board a plane out of the country. It had really seemed like we'd never get resolution and her murderer would get away with it since quite a bit of time had passed. It was good encouragement for the 'stick-to-it-tive-ness' pays off mentality when it comes to some of these.

I'd love to see the killer be ID'd in only 5 more days...but I'll take 5 months, or even 5 years at this point!

 

[jash]

Ilona's obituary:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/deseretnews/obituary.aspx?n=ilona-g-flint&pid=168844398

It states she had begun taking classes at a community college in El Cajon in 2012. I wonder if Gianni was as well.

 

[poppygirl]

This seems like a very tight, close-knit family. If Gianni or the victims were involved in something...and Gianni had just witnessed his 2 loved ones gunned down, he could very much be in hiding - not wanting to put anyone else at risk. I wouldn't be surprised to find he has help (and can't blame anyone that would help him).

I hope they find who did this.

 

[Curious Me]

Ilona's obituary:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/deseretnews/obituary.aspx?n=ilona-g-flint&pid=168844398

It states she had begun taking classes at a community college in El Cajon in 2012. I wonder if Gianni was as well.

Thanks jash.

Ilona was such a beautiful young woman. Everything I've heard and read about her has been glowing.
I don't understand why her life was taken. It seems so senseless. My condolences to all her family and friends who have suffered this loss.

 

[Curious Me]

I think some of the articles didn't include the part he said after that:



I think he either sort of fabricated what he believed they were told initially or it was wishful thinking or...?

I'm honestly not sure LE would necessarily confirm that either way to the family at this point since the person missing is also family, despite that they're the family of one of the crime victims as well.

And I'm also not sure if his 'oh oops' statement even means that they have confirmation either way or if it's really just that he didn't understand that they may not given confirmation either way.

The fact that they've not released it, like you said, makes me think there's a strategic reason for that or that they just flat out don't know anything conclusively yet (though I doubt that)

If the family does know, the fact that LE isn't releasing it would surely mean they were told not to either I would think. In which case, then either the uncle had to have made the entire thing up basically, piecing together things along with what he seems to want to be the case. And while IF he knew something he shouldn't have told, since LE didn't, but family shouldn't really have told him either likely.

To be honest, I wonder if they may believe someone somehow connected DOES know something and may be covering up some info to try to protect someone or even maybe someone else being involved as well and that they may slip and spill or do something that would give LE more info.

Now if this totally cools down for quite some time, I could see that being released just to try to flush things/info out.

More importantly, as to the Gianni status part, I think they're not saying he is a suspect because if they have reason to believe he's alive and fled out of fear OR because of involvement, I'm thinking they are expecting he may reach out to his family or someone or even come home altogether if he thinks they only think he is missing and not involved (or even just thinking his family will stand with him regardless)

But like the confirmation one way at the mall, I could see this changing as well if things stay quiet (assuming they need leads) they might release it to try that as a tactic to flush him out, but also just to get it back in in the news could be a possibility.

There was a missing pastor's wife brutally killed in AL (we've got a thread in one of the other threads - crimes in the news I think?) and LE hardly said anything. It really seemed like there wasn't going to be a break. Just this week they arrested her husband as he was getting ready to board a plane out of the country. It had really seemed like we'd never get resolution and her murderer would get away with it since quite a bit of time had passed. It was good encouragement for the 'stick-to-it-tive-ness' pays off mentality when it comes to some of these.

I'd love to see the killer be ID'd in only 5 more days...but I'll take 5 months, or even 5 years at this point!

Everything you said makes sense. Your post gives hope that this will be solved. Thank You. Yes, I saw where that pastor's wife case had an arrest this past week. Wow, good work.

Just because the public, and even the families, aren't privy to all the details, it doesn't mean LE hasn't figured things out. Assuredly, they are working behind the scenes.

I just have sleuther-frustration wanting more info.

What family members are told or say, or what is reported by the news, can be misleading. LE doesn't, and can't, share some of the details of the investigation. There might be reasons certain statements are made to the public.

What family members are trying to piece together is all we have for now, but I doubt they've gotten anything conclusive from LE. The aunt said the family would stand by Gianni 150% or something to that effect. They want him to feel safe enough to come out of hiding. Hard to say whether the family believes there may be an outside threat or they are just saying that.

But oh, how I hope Gianni was not involved. It's very possible there was someone else known to them who was out to get them. I hope he is alive and able to come forward soon.

 

[SDHELPS]

Why is Gianni's name bolded in "red" now? My experience on WS is that happens when the person is confirmed deceased. Thanks guys!!!

ETA: DISREGARD question...it has now changed back to normal black text. Dear Lord lol

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Why is Gianni's name bolded in "red" now? My experience on WS is that happens when the person is confirmed deceased. Thanks guys!!!

ETA: DISREGARD question...it has now changed back to normal black text. Dear Lord lol

Were you searching for Gianni to find the thread?

 

[TravelingBug]

BBM It was Uncle Otto who stated that Sal borrowed his brother's (being Sal's father) car. It was both in print and video but dang if I can find it :blushing:

I probably should have guessed that, huh!? :crazy:

 

[TravelingBug]

I actually read my first forum after a local kidnapping/murder. First trial I was ever able to follow. On reading UT online, followed a link to a discussion about it back in 2002, followed links to various forums and was hooked.

IMHO, it started with Pfingst and all his shenanigans, thought Dumanis would be good, but, alas no improvement. The PD was complaining about losing all the good cops (after being trained by them) said it was because they got paid more elsewhere. But I can't help but believe it was because the "good" cops didn't like having to go against their better judgment when superiors told them to do things "their" way. Their investigations into McStays and claiming suicide for Rebecca were absolutely corrupt imho.

Sorry for the off topic post, but I can't help but wonder if they are doing this investigation the same way.

I love hearing what got people into WS (or following cases in general)

I don't recall which case was first for me, but ultimately I ended up moving from moderating AOL travel boards to moderating the AOL Crime and Trials boards (through all the Andrea Yates incident and then trial, etc.)

At some point some case mentioned WS and I started lurking - took a long time before I finally joined though (partly b/c I only had an AOL address!)

 

[Public_Hysteria]

Six days since Gianni's been missing. The families have lost Ilona and Salvatore, and for six days have had to wait to see if Gianni shows up. What a nightmare.

Yes, I wondered the same thing about the gun shot holes in the window. Is some glass coated so it stays together when it shatters?

I believe that car window glass is made of a different sort of material than normal glass, so it doesn't shatter as badly if the car is in an accident or something. I know it's from Wikipedia, but I found the following -

Modern windshields are generally made of laminated safety glass, a type of treated glass, which consists of two (typically) curved sheets of glass with a plastic layer laminated between them for safety, and are bonded into the window frame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield

SBM
Re Ilana's 911 call - I haven't heard any of it, but I will say that head injuries (including gun shot) can sometimes involve an isolated segment of the brain that may impact on the person's abilities (particularly emotional/cognitive/physical) without affecting other functions. TravelingBug, I'd love to know what her emotional levels were like in the call - did she sound flat, non-emotive? Confusion is common, so even if she seemed calm, she may have been struggling with comprehension, memory issues, etc. Then as the brain bleed progressed, she would have deteriorated and more functions would have been affected.

IMO, I think she was probably in shock and was incredibly confused. I don't believe she saw it coming (not sure why, but I just don't think she knew what was happening at the time), so when she called 911 she wasn't really in the right state of mind to be giving information to LE. She was likely bleeding out too, so she possibly wasn't on the phone for very long and so was not able to give a lot of information at the time. I wish I could find the audio of the call, but I think other poster's are right and it's been pulled.

BBM This view intrigues me the most. Going back to how often did Sal borrow his fathers car. And yes, why would GB carry on such a brazen act in a public place when I'm sure there were more secluded opportunities. Of course if it was done in a fit of jealous rage that would change that theory but IMO that was not the case.

SBM

I think if it were done in a fit of jealous rage, it wouldn't have happened in a car park. Just going by statements his family have made, he doesn't seem to be the gun toting type, so I doubt he would have had a gun on him that night. If it were Gianni, and it were premeditated, I don't understand why he would do it in a parking lot, where there is ample CCTV coverage. Why not do it in a home, where there would be far fewer witnesses?

This is really a strange one, I don't know what to think. I'm leaning towards Gianni not being involved, but then I don't understand why he hasn't shown up by now.

Why is Gianni's name bolded in "red" now? My experience on WS is that happens when the person is confirmed deceased. Thanks guys!!!

ETA: DISREGARD question...it has now changed back to normal black text. Dear Lord lol

That usually happens if you've used the search button to find the thread or any mention of him on the forum. It got me at first too.

 

[TravelingBug]

Just caught up on this case. Very strange!

Re Ilana's 911 call - I haven't heard any of it, but I will say that head injuries (including gun shot) can sometimes involve an isolated segment of the brain that may impact on the person's abilities (particularly emotional/cognitive/physical) without affecting other functions. TravelingBug, I'd love to know what her emotional levels were like in the call - did she sound flat, non-emotive? Confusion is common, so even if she seemed calm, she may have been struggling with comprehension, memory issues, etc. Then as the brain bleed progressed, she would have deteriorated and more functions would have been affected.

I keep jumping between potential scenarios - I do hope Gianni isn't responsible, but the flipside of that is maybe it was a professional hit and he was taken and hurt somewhere else. After reading the last few pages of posts, I can't help but wonder if there is something bigger going on, and this is some sort of payback, warning.

Here are two more way out (!!) possibilities - seems like everything's worth considering right now with such little reporting.

-could there have been a ransom, and only certain family members are aware (not the ones speaking out)?
-could Gianni be caught up in something, and the FBI, etc have him somewhere safe, but they are keeping this quiet to try to apprehend the shooter/s?

Both these scenarios could explain the lack of new info, the withdrawal of info, and confusion amongst family members.

I warned you they were way out!!!

Although it's been awhile since I've put on my therapist 'hat,' and obviously now over a week since the 911 call was last where I was able to hear it, I don't at all think I'd have characterized it as her having a flat sounding vocal affect.

It really was more what you'd expect from someone almost blase about something, so to speak. Like if she'd been hit by a paintball gun shot or something. Or for a non-major injury from a self-inflicted or accidental gunshot (which we had had several of in the days prior).

I think it was sort of the mix of those (several non or minor gunshot injury calls - a few inadvertently self-inflected) plus a significant number of stabbing/non-stabbing calls in the 36 or so hours prior (like someone saying someone was stabbed and it was really like a paper cut type thing with a kitchen knife) - in other words an uncharacteristically high number of mostly overblown calls - and her lack of urgency or severity of any of it, that really made them shocked at what they found.

Plus, throw in the fact that it made little sense that someone knew they were at the mall (and knew it was Mission Valley specifically) yet didn't have any other info which also compounded that - the very sort of basically uncooperative caller type things that I had no idea they really got so many of a day until I started listening more regularly.

Again, like I said, it's not like they didn't take it seriously - because that is the very last thing I'd have said about how things played out based on listening to it all (sending ABLE, for one thing, is a perfect illustration of that - they'd never have done that if they didn't think air support might be necessary or helpful) but I don't think it's at all what anyone thought they'd find when they got there.

Not only HER really being shot - and then not even survivably so - let alone there being a second victim as well.

 

[Public_Hysteria]

I love hearing what got people into WS (or following cases in general)

I don't recall which case was first for me, but ultimately I ended up moving from moderating AOL travel boards to moderating the AOL Crime and Trials boards (through all the Andrea Yates incident and then trial, etc.)

At some point some case mentioned WS and I started lurking - took a long time before I finally joined though (partly b/c I only had an AOL address!)

O/T - It was the Allison Baden Clay case that got me here. I never posted at first (just lurked) so I wasn't an active participant in her thread, but after seeing how wonderful everyone is here I had to sign up. Websleuths is such a great community of like minded people, I love being able to discuss cases like this - no one I know in real life follows cases as intently as I do.

And even if people disagree on their theories, everyone takes on board others opinions and are *usually* very respectful of what others have to say. The mods keep on top of us too, so we're all mostly well behaved.

 

[TravelingBug]

Trying to reply to a bunch of posts - and then just write one b/c of something I thought about based on posts to get thoughts on it - and my stupid browser keeps crashing if I try to write more than about 4 sentences (or lines, maybe is more accurate).

Boo hiss! Two or three days of this. I'll try later (again) - thought it was better b/c I got one or two off...

 

[TravelingBug]

Why is Gianni's name bolded in "red" now? My experience on WS is that happens when the person is confirmed deceased. Thanks guys!!!

ETA: DISREGARD question...it has now changed back to normal black text. Dear Lord lol

Just be glad it was only Gianni and not like..."the" and "killer" or something :floorlaugh:

I don't remember what I searched (obviously wouldn't have been that but it was something far more used than I thought!) and I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me because I couldn't figure out why different words were coloured or bolded or whatever it was (until I realized I had search for multiple things) :blushing:

But whatever I had done wasn't the same way I had done it before b/c I hadn't had whatever happened show up before!

 

[TravelingBug]

Everything you said makes sense. Your post gives hope that this will be solved. Thank You. Yes, I saw where that pastor's wife case had an arrest this past week. Wow, good work.

Just because the public, and even the families, aren't privy to all the details, it doesn't mean LE hasn't figured things out. Assuredly, they are working behind the scenes.

I just have sleuther-frustration wanting more info.

What family members are told or say, or what is reported by the news, can be misleading. LE doesn't, and can't, share some of the details of the investigation. There might be reasons certain statements are made to the public.

What family members are trying to piece together is all we have for now, but I doubt they've gotten anything conclusive from LE. The aunt said the family would stand by Gianni 150% or something to that effect. They want him to feel safe enough to come out of hiding. Hard to say whether the family believes there may be an outside threat or they are just saying that.

But oh, how I hope Gianni was not involved. It's very possible there was someone else known to them who was out to get them. I hope he is alive and able to come forward soon.

Can we get the former as an official diagnosis?! Love that!

And I'm glad you brought up the aunt's comment. I'd love to have heard if she was questioned further as to whether that is a blanket, they'll support him 150% even if he was involved or...? I guess really if it was more that they're saying it hoping it'll flush him out (which I guess they'd really not admit to or it'd not make sense to say...)

But I am curious if they'd still standby him if involved.

Wish for one more chatty-Andre interview to hint at how the two families seem to be interacting at this point.

 

[Curious Me]

Found the news video with the aunt, Rosary Donato, speaking.
She says the two boys, Salvatore and Gianni were 100% inseparable.

She also says, if Gianni is out there, he should know that the family will back him 150%.


Family Mourns Son, Seeks Answers in Brother's Disappearance
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/on-air/as-seen-on/VIGILAC-11PM-News_112014_1_San-Diego-238443511.html

Can we get the former as an official diagnosis?! Love that!

And I'm glad you brought up the aunt's comment. I'd love to have heard if she was questioned further as to whether that is a blanket, they'll support him 150% even if he was involved or...? I guess really if it was more that they're saying it hoping it'll flush him out (which I guess they'd really not admit to or it'd not make sense to say...)

But I am curious if they'd still standby him if involved.

Wish for one more chatty-Andre interview to hint at how the two families seem to be interacting at this point.

:bump: Bumping the vigil video with the aunt.

She said the family would back Gianni 150%, and also included something about "No Matter What". I hope that doesn't mean any of them would help him flee or hide, and maybe they're forced to say soothing things in hopes he'll show up.

BTW, at the time on Jan. 1st, she said she was wanting to search all of San Diego, so that must've been before they started considering he maybe fled to Utah.

Correction to my previous post - the boys were also 150% inseparable.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/on-air/as-seen-on/VIGILAC-11PM-News_112014_1_San-Diego-238443511.html