GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[SDHELPS]

From the San Diego Union Tribune. Where are you Gianni???

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/01/belvedere-flint-mall-shooting-vigil/

The family of a man fatally shot at a Mission Valley mall held a candlelight vigil in his honor Wednesday where they announced a $10,000 reward for information about his missing brother.

“Gianni, if you are listening, we know you have a broken heart. Come home to us. We love you,” said his sister Laura Belvedere. “If anyone has seen Gianni, or is holding him against his will, please return him to us.”

San Diego police homicide investigators have not named Gianni Belvedere as a suspect in the double homicide.

:scared:

 

[Curious Me]

Found the news video with the aunt, Rosary Donato, speaking.
She says the two boys, Salvatore and Gianni were 100% inseparable.

She also says, if Gianni is out there, he should know that the family will back him 150%.


Family Mourns Son, Seeks Answers in Brother's Disappearance
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/on-air/as-seen-on/VIGILAC-11PM-News_112014_1_San-Diego-238443511.html

From the San Diego Union Tribune. Where are you Gianni???

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/01/belvedere-flint-mall-shooting-vigil/

:scared:

Where is he? How awful this waiting must be for the family. BBM


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/01/belvedere-flint-mall-shooting-vigil/

“It makes no sense. These (brothers) were just the greatest pair of kids you’d want to meet,”
said Domenic Donato, an older cousin of the two Belvedere boys. “They were thick as thieves and always together. They were just great kids.”

 

[jash]

"Upon the premise that he fled the scene in fear, family members say they want Utah authorities also to search for his dark green 2004 Toyota Camry XLE with Utah license plate B154VZ."


“All three of them were inseparable,” he said. “They were all best friends, and they all did everything together.”

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/01/belvedere-flint-mall-shooting-vigil/

 

[SDHELPS]

I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of the LE not naming Gianni a POI. I believe they have CCTV/Evidence/Alibi that he was not at the Mall when the shooting occurred. Perhaps LE has video of him elsewhere? What is sometimes obvious to us (the outsiders) is not the case.

Here is the latest report with the Uncle in Utah tonight. I would love to hear more from LE on this case...

We spoke to Gianni Belvedere's uncle Otto from his home in Provo, Utah. He says on Thursday morning he got a call from a San Diego police detective asking for information on where Gianni could be, but told him nothing about the investigation. Since Gianni is from Utah, his uncle is adamant he's alive and hiding out there, but he doesn't know where.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24351376/relative-missing-man-may-be-hiding-out-in-utah

 

[WestCoastLady]

I think that the family wants to believe that he's hiding out in Utah because that would at least mean he's alive....

I'm curious about the cell phone pings, mostly. Very strange case.

 

[Curious Me]

I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of the LE not naming Gianni a POI. I believe they have CCTV/Evidence/Alibi that he was not at the Mall when the shooting occurred. Perhaps LE has video of him elsewhere? What is sometimes obvious to us (the outsiders) is not the case.

Here is the latest report with the Uncle in Utah tonight. I would love to hear more from LE on this case...

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24351376/relative-missing-man-may-be-hiding-out-in-utah

I heard the bolded part tonight on the news, and realized that the uncle , and probably the whole family, doesn't have any idea what LE has or knows.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24351376/relative-missing-man-may-be-hiding-out-in-utah

"We spoke to Gianni Belvedere's uncle Otto from his home in Provo, Utah. He says on Thursday morning he got a call from a San Diego police detective asking for information on where Gianni could be, but told him nothing about the investigation."

I think that the family wants to believe that he's hiding out in Utah because that would at least mean he's alive....

I'm curious about the cell phone pings, mostly. Very strange case.

Yes, I agree, the family wants to believe he's alive. It is possible he headed for Utah, but what about being prepared to travel undetected. He'd have to be pretty slick to go undetected this long.

Do you mean you're curious about the phone pings to determine if he was at the mall, or now?

 

[Curious Me]

"The uncle says Salvatore had just come back from working in Oregon at a relative's restaurant and doesn't believe Gianni would be in Oregon."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24351376/relative-missing-man-may-be-hiding-out-in-utah

also


"We don't know if he was kidnapped. We have no clue what happened," Otto said."

"But no one can say why Gianni would be kidnapped, and Otto doesn't believe
Ilona and Salvatore had a secret relationship, like some suspect."

"Love triangle? No," he said."

BBM

 

[madamehdivision]

I've been cruising in and out of this thread but has Ilona as the primary target been considered? ie Ilona as primary target for reasons unknown, Salvatore in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Gianni on the run in fear of his life? Maybe Gianni got some sort of a "heads up" to get the hell outta there, couldnt get word to Ilona in time, and Salvatore just collateral damage?

 

[Curious Me]

I've been cruising in and out of this thread but has Ilona as the primary target been considered? ie Ilona as primary target for reasons unknown, Salvatore in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Gianni on the run in fear of his life? Maybe Gianni got some sort of a "heads up" to get the hell outta there, couldnt get word to Ilona in time, and Salvatore just collateral damage?

You offered a unique slant to look at it from another angle. Thanks, madam.
Please share some more of your creativity. How can you see this theory coming about?

Who would make Ilona a primary target? Why?
Some other lover who wanted revenge because he/she couldn't have her/him?
Or she knew or saw something big and had to be silenced?
A professional hit?

Help me out, my head is about to explode. Any ideas? How and why this happened is a true mystery to me.

The strange location of the mall late night holiday season is a strange choice for a crime. Someone somehow knew how to find them and the car. We don't actually know yet where they were just before this happened as it could've been Macy's or not.

 

[madamehdivision]

You offered a unique slant to look at it from another angle. Thanks, madam.
Please share some more of your creativity. How can you see this theory coming about?

Who would make Ilona a primary target? Why?
Some other lover who wanted revenge because he/she couldn't have her/him?
Or she knew or saw something big and had to be silenced?
A professional hit?

Help me out, my head is about to explode. Any ideas? How and why this happened is a true mystery to me.

The strange location of the mall late night holiday season is a strange choice for a crime. Someone somehow knew how to find them and the car. We don't actually know yet where they were just before this happened as it could've been Macy's or not.

Personally, and IMO, this absolutely reeks of a professional hit. I dont think it was personal. If it was personal, like a stalker or an ex, I cant really fathom why Gianni would be running. I don't think Gianni was with Ilona and Sal at the time of the shooting.

This is all my opinion. But I think Ilona was under surveillance. The perp knew her routine. Was it ever established that Ilona worked at the shopping centre? If it has been definitely established, then I believe the perp would've known she'd be working that night. Sal used to collect her occasionally, yes? Then I believe the perp knew what car he drove and knew whereabouts he usually parked. In any event, the perp was prepared. The surveillance would've been constant, and I believe the perp just picked his moment.

Gianni was tipped off. He ran for his life and couldn't get the word to Ilona.

As to why Ilona was the primary target - I dont know. And I'm not sure its within the TOS to sleuth her. I have not yet looked into her background.

ETA - I'm camping atm. I'm on my phone. Power and service is minimal. I have tried to explain myself properly, given my lack of resources. No service and battery dying.

 

[Sharyne]

Sorry, not quite sure what you're asking about with the bolded? Is that in reference to the tweet w/ the picture I posted from one of the news stations? Or the 911 call now not public? Or...? (Sorry, sleep deprived and probably just being thick headed at the moment! :blushing

As for his cell phone, that IS one thing I've not heard ANY talk of whatsoever - on the scanner, in the media, or really even comments on articles (though I've not read every one of them)

They are often CRAZY quick to track cell phones here.

I'm not sure how they manage that in most cases since we often hear them needing warrants for that in other cases, but seems not to be the case in San Diego.

In fact, as I posted in some other thread on another case, several times they've gotten reports that are credible suicide threats (typically about jumpers) and pinged the phone and even manage to get there in time to essentially yank one back down off the bridge - literally seconds before it'd have been too late!

They do it with stolen phones (dispatch often mentions that she'll use her iPad to track an iDevice) they do it with at risk people who haven't been missing long, etc.

So I can't imagine they haven't done so in this case, but I'm surprised it's apparently not led anywhere.

At this point, who knows if his phone would even ping, since we don't know if he's truly with his car (and if so if he has a charger in it) or even with the phone.

I don't imagine there's a chance in the world that all three did NOT have phones on them - especially since they possibly were trying to meet up at the mall - so besides just pinging Gianni's phone, I'd hope they had pinged phones Salvatore and Ilona had, even though they didn't need to locate them (to see if they had been in the mall area for awhile, to see if they pinged where Gianni's phone was prior)

Actually, I'd suspect they would try to get cell tower records to see everyone who had a phone that pinged during the relevant window around the mall (assuming that's where the entire thing took place). That I'd suspect would require a search warrant.

Based on just knowing how quickly (and frequently) LE is able to trace phones here (probably have heard about a dozen instances in a one or two hour window earlier tonight - and that was just in one area of San Diego) I'd assume that at least the records on Gianni's phone once they realized he was missing would be accessed.

But perhaps the "back pings" (prior to Ilona's 911 call) would need a warrant?

I've not heard anything about them sitting on a house or location that appeared to be related to this case, and often undercover, stakeouts, or plain clothes stuff is all still heard on the scanner here (some divisions and agencies more than others) - though it's not like I can hear all of it obviously - so I'm guessing that while they may have tried or continue to, it's not led to anything especially helpful at this point.

from my post that you quoted:

I very much appreciated all your posts about what you learned from the scanner. However, I am mystified why it is not available to read.

There is nothing in the Scanner threads about this case that you posted about. Where do I find them?
As for your sleep deprivation, LOL, even sleepy, you have a wonderful mind. I love your analyses and questions.
One would think that LE would have tried to ping his cell once they knew the situation. And surely they would check Ilona's and Salvatore's cell phones for their last calls, don't you think?, without needing a warrant, since they were immediately needing to evaluate the circumstances?

Also, I never saw anything on the news about an apparent siting of Gianni, where did you find that?
TIA

 

[Sharyne]

You offered a unique slant to look at it from another angle. Thanks, madam.
Please share some more of your creativity. How can you see this theory coming about?

Who would make Ilona a primary target? Why?
Some other lover who wanted revenge because he/she couldn't have her/him?
Or she knew or saw something big and had to be silenced?
A professional hit?

Help me out, my head is about to explode. Any ideas? How and why this happened is a true mystery to me.

The strange location of the mall late night holiday season is a strange choice for a crime. Someone somehow knew how to find them and the car. We don't actually know yet where they were just before this happened as it could've been Macy's or not.

Ok, this is probably going to sound strange, and even TravelingBug mentioned how much Andre was being interviewed. I wonder if he was so infatuated with Ilona (one of his interviews he said he wished he would have told her he loved her more), that I was getting vibes that maybe if he couldn't have her nobody could, maybe he even thought she was also in love with Salvatore....or he thought that was Gianni in the car with her.

 

[TravelingBug]

I think this is interesting...

"It is said he was there, he was there, they know he was there," Otto said.

Gianni's uncle clarified with CBS News 8 on the phone Thursday what police have told the family.

"After checking with them (my nieces), evidently it's not what they said," Otto said.

That seems to say that they were NOT told Gianni was there.

And I get the feeling we have a number of people talking out of turn (Uncle and Andre, both, IMO) and more saying what they THINK they know or what they would like to THINK is the case or just what they are interpreting.

Also interesting, as Curious said, that the police have NOT told him (at least) anything about the case/investigation.

But then here (above) he seems to be telling the rest of the family something. Which, frankly, I'm not sure they'd confirm at this point (like if they were told definitively if Gianni had or had not been seen at the mall) since that could be key to the investigation and yet also would probably only add to the family's concern, etc. - almost whether he was or wasn't there.

 

[TravelingBug]

Personally, and IMO, this absolutely reeks of a professional hit. I dont think it was personal. If it was personal, like a stalker or an ex, I cant really fathom why Gianni would be running. I don't think Gianni was with Ilona and Sal at the time of the shooting.

This is all my opinion. But I think Ilona was under surveillance. The perp knew her routine. Was it ever established that Ilona worked at the shopping centre? If it has been definitely established, then I believe the perp would've known she'd be working that night. Sal used to collect her occasionally, yes? Then I believe the perp knew what car he drove and knew whereabouts he usually parked. In any event, the perp was prepared. The surveillance would've been constant, and I believe the perp just picked his moment.

Gianni was tipped off. He ran for his life and couldn't get the word to Ilona.

As to why Ilona was the primary target - I dont know. And I'm not sure its within the TOS to sleuth her. I have not yet looked into her background.

ETA - I'm camping atm. I'm on my phone. Power and service is minimal. I have tried to explain myself properly, given my lack of resources. No service and battery dying.

The reference to both guys picking Ilona up from work was about the job in La Jolla when she worked for Andre at the vintage shop.

And no, no confirmation that she worked at the mall (that also came from Andre)

In fact, everything that's coming from the family is saying that they were there shopping or that they don't know why they were there together. Nothing from them is saying he was picking her up from work.

Here:

Relatives say they are mystified about what happened that night when the trio was believed to be out last-minute shopping.

And here:

Otto says the three were doing some last-minute Christmas shopping at Westfield Mission Valley Mall. Stores like Macy's were open late for extended holiday hours.

And here (which, if she worked there and he picked her up that'd be something they would have known - or at least if he might have been there doing that, meaning not saying that was something he could even possibly be doing)

The Belvedere family has said they’re not sure why Salvatore was with Gianni’s girlfriend at the mall at the time of the shooting. The family has said Gianni may have also been at the mall.

It's only the rumors stemming from Andre that are contradicting that at this point, thus this:

There are conflicting stories if Salvator was picking up Ilona Flint from work or if the three were shopping at Westfield's Mission Valley mall.

In addition, nothing else was open at the mall. It closed at 11 pm.

So unless Ilona worked at Macy's (which I absolutely believe they would have definitively said at some point) there's no reason to have been picking her up 2 hours later.

In addition, I am fully confident that she did not work at Macy's b/c if she did (or even if they had just walked out of there from shopping) she would have KNOWN where they were at when she called 911. They were quite close to the store, the Macy's sign is unavoidable - very, very visible, I mean. And if it had been her workplace or their shopping destination I am confident she'd have at least said, "we just left Macy's" or "I was being picked up from work at Macy's" or something along those lines.

Having listened to it all play out, it is VERY apparent she did NOT give them any indication of where she was other than somewhere near the Mission Valley mall (which also technically includes some outlying areas that are NOT more in the mall proper part itself).

Also, not sure why representatives aren't confirming it (they may not be allowed to be confirming anything - including if surveillance was pulled or if Gianni was seen there) Their own material gave holiday hours and said that everything closed at 11.

The only store CBS News 8 is aware that was open during the time of the shooting was Macy's.

Representatives with the mall have not confirmed if there were other stores open past 1:00 a.m. on Christmas Eve.

 

[Curious Me]

Thanks for your thoughts, madamehdivison.

Wow, if this was possibly a professional hit being done at that mall, I can't understand why choose such a public place. It's worth considering, of course, especially if Gianni is scared and on the run. His car is missing, so it seems to me it's less likely he was abducted, but we still know so little.

There's several considerations I'll mention.

Ilona may not have worked at the mall, or had a regular schedule. I don't think it's been confirmed she was working at one of the stores on a steady basis.

It seemed like a last minute shopping trip the way the family described it. I think it was Salvatore who borrowed his father's car. I'm not sure if he owned his own car, but he borrowed his Dad's that night. Sure, it's possible someone watched the house that they and the family lived in, and maybe someone was following them.

It doesn't seem like the shots were fired from much of a distance. Seems the shooter must've gone right up to the car window to shoot, almost like a personal thing more than a professional hit. A silencer on the gun seems likely though, which supports excuting a plan in a more public place and needing to get away undetected.

I'm staying up here on the fence confused until more facts come out. :fence:

 

[Advocate1]

I did a screen grab from a previous newscast. It's hard to tell in this pic but you can actually see two bullet holes in the passenger window. I assume Ilona was sitting there. Are the windshield wipers up? Maybe accidentally switched on in the chaos.

http://www.10news.com/news/2-people-found-shot-in-car-near-westfield-mission-valley-mall12242013

It appears they were driving when they were shot at from outside the vehicle. The bullets came through the windows. If this is true then IMO it would be very possible if Gianni was withthem that he was in the backseat and could of been a witness to the shootings and not shot. The car had dark Windows and they were rolled up clearly as you see bullet holes in the upper part of the door window. I wonder if the brothers dabbled in drugs either selling or a habit of buying them. Also I wonder about mistaken identity. I can understand Gianni being in fear if he was in the backseat and witnessed everything.

 

[TravelingBug]

from my post that you quoted:

There is nothing in the Scanner threads about this case that you posted about. Where do I find them?
As for your sleep deprivation, LOL, even sleepy, you have a wonderful mind. I love your analyses and questions.
One would think that LE would have tried to ping his cell once they knew the situation. And surely they would check Ilona's and Salvatore's cell phones for their last calls, don't you think?, without needing a warrant, since they were immediately needing to evaluate the circumstances?

Also, I never saw anything on the news about an apparent siting of Gianni, where did you find that?
TIA

Man, just lost my (long) reply to you!

It's not in the scanner thread.

I didn't post it here, though had elsewhere, because at that point there was nothing indicating it would be something that would wind up on WS. Far too many shootings for it to seem even really relevant enough to put in like the 'crimes in the news' thread.

There was no indication at the time that we'd also end up with a missing person somehow connected to it.

I haven't seen anything in print about the possible sighting since it didn't turn out to be him. That was another thing from the scanner, though. An RP was remarkably confident that Gianni was in the 24 Hour Fitness where he was working out (I think it was the El Cajon one, but would have to go look at my notes to be sure...but was out that way, El Cajon or Lemon Grove area) They kept the RP on the phone to watch him (he had gone further away in the room to call) and deputies rolled code. They got there extremely quickly and even went to emergency traffic only as they went in to approach the guy. After about 10 minutes they determined that it wasn't him. With it not going anywhere I don't think there'd have been any reason media would have covered it.

As far as the phones, I agree that they surely got info from Ilona and Salvatore's without a warrant, or at least the very initial stuff (texts or calls - and incoming or outgoing) To be honest, I suspect they had even done that at the scene, especially since they likely used their phones to get next of kin contact info. (Obviously I'm assuming that either or both phones were there w/ them)

It's more the cell tower info as far as other phones that may have pinged nearby, etc. that I'd think they'd need a warrant for (and maybe for more dated info from their phones)

Regarding Gianni's phone, yeah, I'd suspect they did something with that as soon as they learned of a possible third person, let alone realizing he was missing. But since there was a decent time delay on that, it may have been too late.

If he had been taken somewhere by someone he could easily have had his phone taken, or it could have been lost in a possible scuffle or something, or (and maybe even most likely - to me) the battery could have been dead by then or even turned off. And if he was voluntarily missing, I'd think he would have ditched the phone, turned it off, or something...If not, surely they'd have found him by now I would think?

Oh, and thanks! :blushing:

 

[TravelingBug]

I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of the LE not naming Gianni a POI. I believe they have CCTV/Evidence/Alibi that he was not at the Mall when the shooting occurred. Perhaps LE has video of him elsewhere? What is sometimes obvious to us (the outsiders) is not the case.

Here is the latest report with the Uncle in Utah tonight. I would love to hear more from LE on this case...

http://www.cbs8.com/story/24351376/relative-missing-man-may-be-hiding-out-in-utah

The one thing about video of him elsewhere would be where that could possibly be (as in where to even start). If his last location was supposedly Tierrasanta at home.

I wonder if they're not just saying that the have an 'updated' last location? Like someone else has come forward saying they saw him somewhere? Or?

With the uncle now apparently saying the family has NOT been told he was there at the mall (though I'm not sure if he/they mean he may have been and they just haven't confirmed it, or if they have somehow confirmed he truly wasn't actually there) it just seems so hard to imagine where they would start :-/

LE is definitely being really quiet on this one! If they hadn't done the vigils, I don't think even as much would be even mentioned in the news at this point as it is (which obviously isn't a lot!)

 

[Sharyne]

Man, just lost my (long) reply to you!

It's not in the scanner thread.

I didn't post it here, though had elsewhere, because at that point there was nothing indicating it would be something that would wind up on WS. Far too many shootings for it to seem even really relevant enough to put in like the 'crimes in the news' thread.

There was no indication at the time that we'd also end up with a missing person somehow connected to it.

I haven't seen anything in print about the possible sighting since it didn't turn out to be him. That was another thing from the scanner, though. An RP was remarkably confident that Gianni was in the 24 Hour Fitness where he was working out (I think it was the El Cajon one, but would have to go look at my notes to be sure...but was out that way, El Cajon or Lemon Grove area) They kept the RP on the phone to watch him (he had gone further away in the room to call) and deputies rolled code. They got there extremely quickly and even went to emergency traffic only as they went in to approach the guy. After about 10 minutes they determined that it wasn't him. With it not going anywhere I don't think there'd have been any reason media would have covered it.

As far as the phones, I agree that they surely got info from Ilona and Salvatore's without a warrant, or at least the very initial stuff (texts or calls - and incoming or outgoing) To be honest, I suspect they had even done that at the scene, especially since they likely used their phones to get next of kin contact info. (Obviously I'm assuming that either or both phones were there w/ them)

It's more the cell tower info as far as other phones that may have pinged nearby, etc. that I'd think they'd need a warrant for (and maybe for more dated info from their phones)

Regarding Gianni's phone, yeah, I'd suspect they did something with that as soon as they learned of a possible third person, let alone realizing he was missing. But since there was a decent time delay on that, it may have been too late.

If he had been taken somewhere by someone he could easily have had his phone taken, or it could have been lost in a possible scuffle or something, or (and maybe even most likely - to me) the battery could have been dead by then or even turned off. And if he was voluntarily missing, I'd think he would have ditched the phone, turned it off, or something...If not, surely they'd have found him by now I would think?

Oh, and thanks! :blushing:

Ah, bummer. After the last time I lost a long post, I now make sure to copy before submitting LOL.

What does RP mean? Yes, not much reason for media to report it.
Sometimes it's easier to hide in plain sight. If he was running because of fear, he could use a car charger, but then, maybe he's seen/heard enough shows/stories about how easy it is to trace a ping. So, if he is running because of fear from knowing who did it, wouldn't you think he'd go to the police? Do you think he was carjacked/kidnapped, or possibly killed also somewhere else?

I'm sure his uncle Otto means well, but I can see why LE wouldn't tell him anything, he seemed to want to talk freely about what he 'knows' or thinks.

Thank you for explaining. One time I was on the scanner forum and there was a thread that listed local SD scanner no.'s but lost my bookmark when my computer burned out on me. Can I get the link to SD that you listen to?
TIA
ETA, I found the link to SD dispatch.

 

[TravelingBug]

It appears they were driving when they were shot at from outside the vehicle. The bullets came through the windows. If this is true then IMO it would be very possible if Gianni was withthem that he was in the backseat and could of been a witness to the shootings and not shot. The car had dark Windows and they were rolled up clearly as you see bullet holes in the upper part of the door window. I wonder if the brothers dabbled in drugs either selling or a habit of buying them. Also I wonder about mistaken identity. I can understand Gianni being in fear if he was in the backseat and witnessed everything.

But where would he be now? And why would he not have come forward by now?

If he HAD witnessed it, surely he'd have had at least a few details on the suspect(s) and would have shared that. Because even if he was in fear, if he had info that would help LE could probably have gotten further in finding the suspect, and also even putting him somewhere safe until they did catch them.

And if he had witnessed it, why would he leave his girlfriend and brother for dead? Why would he not also have called 911 himself? Even if he was in fear, surely he'd have tried to get them help so they would live? By all accounts they are the two people he is closest to!

And he would have had to have gotten out and away awfully quickly since he obviously wasn't still hiding in the car when officers got there. And ABLE was there quite quickly and didn't mention someone on foot leaving nor have any other vehicles been mentioned leaving the area, so they seem to think they have at least some relevant witness information that doesn't seem to include anyone else in/leaving the area at the time, aside from ABLE being overhead quite quickly.

Unless they were taking him to his car parked elsewhere, I also can't see why he would be in the backseat.

If they were taking him to his car, then it'd have to have been awfully close, since his car wasn't found in the lot. And if he were really getting a ride to it, the timing seems almost impossible.

After all, if he'd truly just witnessed a shooting and was in fear, I can't imagine he wouldn't have waited a bit before leaving the car (and before doing that, trying to peer around outside to be sure he was safe - especially given that HE didn't call 911) and then, after some time elapsed, he'd have to have made it to his car before ABLE got there (which seems nearly impossible based on the timing from hearing it play out) and without any other witnesses who apparently were able to see the likely suspect NOT also somehow seeing him - on foot or leaving in the missing car.

In addition, that means Ilona then didn't say that Sal was also shot (or that there was even a second person just with her) OR say that her BF was hiding in the car also. And that just doesn't seem likely to me.

Unless somehow the shootings happened a pretty substantial amount of time before Ilona called 911, that just seems like too much of a reach to be very plausible. But obviously that (the entire shooting event happening earlier and quite some time before Ilona called) also seems far-fetched. After all, it'd have had to have been a pretty substantial amount of blood loss at least sustained. Plus meaning that as hard as it is to understand how it was possible for her to call even if she had just been shot, yet died by the time officers got there, then that would mean her having to have somehow survived multiple gunshots AND substantial blood loss for an even lengthier time before calling. And I just don't see that either.

Though obviously anything is possible!

But like you, I do wonder about drugs or some other activity (gambling issue and a lot of money owed or something) being a factor, though that seems to run contrary to what family has said about the character of the three. Of course we've all seen tons of cases where the family is surprised by things that they end up finding out about someone - and few ever think a loved one would do something wrong.