GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[Advocate1]

99.999999% they have his picture from one of the mall's camera why aren't they showing it. Lets face it he is no longer wearing the same thing - LOL - so what do they want the population to look for!!! Cant arrest everyone between 5-10 and 6 feet tall.

From an earlier poster it seems that at that time very few people were at the mall. You can also tell by the number of cars in the lot and possibly only a handful of stores were still open.

Yeah they are definetly withholding some descriptive details regarding the suspect IMO.
The video could be analyzed and they likely would be able to tell if the person was black or white at the very least. We gotta remember this is still out there and so any info they give us they give him. Wonder how much the jerk is sweating now knowing they got him on camera not once but twice!!! See what I mean, he dont know if the image was crystal clear or if they couldnt even tell his race. For what its worth I hope he enjoys his last days of freedom cause he is gonna fry!

 

[Advocate1]

If you're going to kill two people and kidnap and kill another, do you work that night? I say no, but then it'd make a good alibi why you were seen at the mall and even on camera, but I can't see this was a employee working that night. Wow.

I have a friend that wouldn't take a stadium job because of the tan pants making her look too big. So, we discussed tan pants a lot. Is it an unspoken truth - Tan pants, people don't wear them unless they have to?

Is khaki the same as tan? I wear khaki pants, and shorts all the time and I dont have too.

 

[Advocate1]

My guess is it had to do with a loan between friends. I'm guessing the loan was at least $5000, and when the lender got impatient about being repaid, the borrower said something insulting like, "I'm not going to pay you any of it back now, since you're being such a jerk about it," having had no intention of paying it back when he took out the loan.

I've seen the above scenario happen a few times during my adult life and the lenders are always seething and sometimes talking about heinous revenge.

I don't think it was a professional hit due to the lack of planning and a total disregard for cameras. It seems like the killer was operating on anger, vindictiveness, and adrenaline.

I dont think the killer was that close to these people. Someone they knew through someone else they knew probably. You dont loan 5k to someone you dont trust but you can run a 5k credit if you buy drugs. Planning can be last minute and still be premeditated. I think it was something along those lines. Planned but not like plotted days in advance. Definently premeditated murder IMO.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Is khaki the same as tan? I wear khaki pants, and shorts all the time and I dont have too.

Yes it is the same

 

[elmomom]

As for the race description. I have seen LE describe race as unknown in other cases, even though it was known at the time. It is usually done to cast a wider net for witnesses - if a witness saw someone who they believed was a dark skinned Italian, and LE described a suspect as Hispanic, then the witness may not come forward. Substitute light skinned black, or any other race... LE doesn't want to limit the description to discourage any tips. They could know, based on prior witnesses, that the race of the suspect is not readily apparent as a characteristic.

 

[MLE]

One theory that makes sense to me as far as all 3 being killed would be if all 3 were aware of say one of them buying some drugs and all 3 were aware of WHO the drugs were coming from. Say Gianni was making the buy but the other 2 knew about it. Well if they decided to say rob and kill or try some ransom deal with Gianni then the other 2 would tell all. They would tell the cops exactly who Gianni was making the deal with and send the cops right to the suspects door persay. So they had to kill them all. Just a theory but it makes sense to me.

This is one of the very best theories in the thread, IMO.

You dont loan 5k to someone you dont trust.

That's one reason why I think it could be a close friend. I know it sounds counterintuitive to think a good friend could be the killer, but that's the person most likely to have his guard down to be taken advantage of. I think the loan was at least 5k, and there was 0% interest on the loan, but the lender just wanted it paid back at some point. If it took a year, fine. If it took ten years, ok. But I think he had gone months without seeing a penny while seeing these guys blow money on BS. And the thing is, when people owe money between friends, a deadbeat borrower never says, "I'm a deadbeat. I have no morals, no scruples." That never happens. There's something psychological that makes them project it onto the lender and actually believe it, as some sort of coping mechanism that helps them to justify being a deadbeat. "You're a jerk. You're (insert insult here)." And so on. Look at how many foreclosures have happened in the USA since 2008. Nobody ever says, "I was greedy to borrow so much money. I was stupid. I have only myself to blame." No. It's always someone else's fault. "Greedy f--king Jews" and so on. You hear it all the time, or at least I do. If they verbally abused the lender to his face and the girl chuckled at the insult, that could've been how she got mixed into all of this.

Another possibility:

Whether it's drugs or just straight up money, I wouldn't be surprised if the pair was killed first and the killer took a photo or two so he could torment Gianni with it. I can easily imagine the killer showing Gianni photos and saying, "I pulled the trigger, but YOU did this. They died because of YOU. All you had to do was pay 6530 dollars and 52 cents, but your brother and your girlfriend are dead because you're a jerk and their lives weren't worth 6530 dollars and 52 f-ing cents even to you, and these pictures prove it." I'm guessing Gianni got smacked around for a while before being murdered. Geez, it's untelling and scary to think about, considering how it seems like they can't even determine the cause of death.

One thing that makes me think it wasn't an experienced killer and certainly not a career hitman is the fact that the two victims at the mall survived as long as they did. The girl made a phone call and the guy died in the hospital, not in the car. I think this is the first time the killer had killed anyone.

 

[thebestinthewest]

Also whoever killed them probably wasn't killing for the first time.

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[thebestinthewest]

And if anyone wonders why I'm so brutally honest or thinks I'm snitching it's nothing like that there are 3 dead people if you want to sell drugs and kill people you deserve to go to jail and if you get caught selling drugs look at it as a blessing in disguise and make something of yourself no more parents should have to bury any kids due wannabe business deals with all the effort a drug dealer spends selling drugs half that effort applied towards something legit could make for a very successful person who is proud of themselves at the end of the day. OK I'm done ranting

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[SDHELPS]

What ever happened to the news report that they were going to talk about "the ominous Facebook post". Did the person who saw the preview for it see the actual newscast?

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That was Travelingbug who posted but I don't believe she mentioned there would be a news report regarding it. Just to help clarify for you AmandaFast, Sal's sister LB had posted on his FB at the beginning of 2013 (Feb.) something to the affect that he was going to die. I am paraphrasing that! She then deleted it once this happened. It was innocent enough in it's content and was stated that the police had seen it prior to it being deleted. IMO it was meant as a joke towards her brother and I'm sure she felt just horrible that it was on his page after he was shot. Nothing more...nothing less. :moo:

 

[dical99]

One theory that makes sense to me as far as all 3 being killed would be if all 3 were aware of say one of them buying some drugs and all 3 were aware of WHO the drugs were coming from. Say Gianni was making the buy but the other 2 knew about it. Well if they decided to say rob and kill or try some ransom deal with Gianni then the other 2 would tell all. They would tell the cops exactly who Gianni was making the deal with and send the cops right to the suspects door persay. So they had to kill them all. Just a theory but it makes sense to me.

Sorry if this link was already posted, but the former cop interviewed here also says the same thing being likely (that all 3 were killed to keep the perps identity unknown, even if the issue was only with 1 of them, indicating that all 3 knew the perp ahead of time)

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Belvedere-Triple-Murder-Mission-Valley-241930551.html

 

[Sandyggo]

That was Travelingbug who posted but I don't believe she mentioned there would be a news report regarding it. Just to help clarify for you AmandaFast, Sal's sister LB had posted on his FB at the beginning of 2013 (Feb.) something to the affect that he was going to die. I am paraphrasing that! She then deleted it once this happened. It was innocent enough in it's content and was stated that the police had seen it prior to it being deleted. IMO it was meant as a joke towards her brother and I'm sure she felt just horrible that it was on his page after he was shot. Nothing more...nothing less. :moo:

Just to clarify, the post that LB posted on SB facebook was on October 18, 2012. <modsnip>and it was "liked" by "Mario Donato" (manager of Mario's in Lakeside).

This was posted a couple of days before Lenny B's 60th birthday party. It may have had something to do with their birthday planning. I see it as a joke and, being so far back in time, having nothing to do with the murders.

Also, that post was not "removed" it's still on Sal's page. In fact I just looked at it 5 minutes ago.

KGTV made an pre-news hours update that the "ominous facebook post.... " I don't recall the rest, but it was just a pitch to stay tuned to the upcoming news. I watched it and I don't real the post being mentioned. So it was dropped during the development of the story (I guess) The media uses things like that on the TV news to get people to tune it. They ran a story yesterday with the "former FBI agent opinions'" in which nothing new was added.

Nothing new has been shared in the media, of any relevance, on this case since the 10:00 am Friday 10/24 SDPD media statements.

 

[perrymason]

the info thus far is that
1. gianni last seen at 10 am in tierrasanta
2. brother and girlfriend shot at 1am and poi seen leaving in a car similar to gianni's .

it is possible that gianni met up with brother and girlfriend at parking lot. a drug purchase was going down. went south. brother / girlfriend shot. gianni's car driven away by poi and he was killed later by poi and car dumped in riverside.

 

[Sandyggo]

the info thus far is that
1. gianni last seen at 10 am in tierrasanta
2. brother and girlfriend shot at 1am and poi seen leaving in a car similar to gianni's .

it is possible that gianni met up with brother and girlfriend at parking lot. a drug purchase was going down. went south. brother / girlfriend shot. gianni's car driven away by poi and he was killed later by poi and car dumped in riverside.

"Belvedere was last known to be in Mission Valley on Dec. 23 about 10 p.m. in the area of Friars Road, not far from the Westfield Mission Valley mall..." is a statement in recent news.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/23/riverside-body-identified-gianni-belvedere/

I don't know where they get that information from, but it probably was from the police because that "Friars Road" citing was mentioned a couple days after the murders. Was it from cell phone records? Was his cell phone cut off at that point in time?

Also, Friars Road is a road that would not be the most convenient to use to get to Mission Valley Mall from Tierrasanta. But it would be a much more convenient road to use to get to I-15 (North).

 

[SDHELPS]

Just to clarify, the post that LB posted on SB facebook was on October 18, 2012. <modsnip> and it was "liked" by "Mario Donato" (manager of Mario's in Lakeside).

This was posted a couple of days before Lenny B's 60th birthday party. It may have had something to do with their birthday planning. I see it as a joke and, being so far back in time, having nothing to do with the murders.

Also, that post was not "removed" it's still on Sal's page. In fact I just looked at it 5 minutes ago.

KGTV made an pre-news hours update that the "ominous facebook post.... " I don't recall the rest, but it was just a pitch to stay tuned to the upcoming news. I watched it and I don't real the post being mentioned. So it was dropped during the development of the story (I guess) The media uses things like that on the TV news to get people to tune it. They ran a story yesterday with the "former FBI agent opinions'" in which nothing new was added.

Nothing new has been shared in the media, of any relevance, on this case since the 10:00 am Friday 10/24 SDPD media statements.

Thank you Sandyggo!!!

I knew I was going to muck that up :blushing: This is what happens when you don't keep tabs on us for a couple of days!

:loveyou:

 

[perrymason]

familiar with area. whether gianni was in tierrasanta or on friars road at 10pm, both are relatively close to mission valley mall and within reason that he could meet up with brother/ girlfriend by 1am or sooner. believe that all 3 were together when this went down. and his car was used by poi as getaway car.

 

[Sandyggo]

the info thus far is that
1. gianni last seen at 10 am in tierrasanta
2. brother and girlfriend shot at 1am and poi seen leaving in a car similar to gianni's .

it is possible that gianni met up with brother and girlfriend at parking lot. a drug purchase was going down. went south. brother / girlfriend shot. gianni's car driven away by poi and he was killed later by poi and car dumped in riverside.

Could be something like that.

But IMO, I disagree on these thoughts...

1. Why have a drug deal in a mall parking lot, out in the open? There are cameras, security guards and a cop can drive up any moment.

2. Mission Valley Mall has covered parking. Why not do the deal inside the parking lot? See #1.

3. Having your girlfriend at a drug deal is not a good idea. Why risk danger or a bust. I think these guys had more class than that.

 

[perrymason]

since all 3 lived with parents, drug purchase would not occur at their home. neutral grounds is key. why not a parking lot with few cars at nite? and suspect girlfriend was a participant user.

how else can you explain all 3 being targeted? they had to be together at the crucial time.

 

[perrymason]

keep in mind, we are not dealing with einsteins.
underground parking is better lit. and the east end of macys can tahe you to the 8 and 15 with only a couple of lights in the way.

 

[Sandyggo]

since all 3 lived with parents, drug purchase would not occur at their home. neutral grounds is key. why not a parking lot with few cars at nite? and suspect girlfriend was a participant user.

how else can you explain all 3 being targeted? they had to be together at the crucial time.

I have to admit, I know nothing about how drug deals go down. I assumed only small deals went down on the streets and in the open. If the speculation is this could have been a high dollar figure transaction, I would think more discretion would be exercised.

Anyway, I'm sure the case will be solved with a lot of help from cell phone records. LE is probably pouring over mounds of cell phone data and matching things up. The can subpoena the phone numbers of every phone that connected to text/calls at towers near the mall for a specific time frame.

They just have to follow to trail of crumbs from those smartphones.

 

[necco]

Would we be talking about organized crime at all if their last names were Smith, O'Donnnel, Rubenstein, or Kowalski? Or is it just because they have an Italian last name? I get that we'd probably still be discussing "drug dealers" but I'm not sure the whole mob element would come in like this if they weren't Italian. (I hope that makes sense, as drug dealers are certainly organized crime, but I feel like since they are in so. Cal, it makes sense we'd for example, discuss cartels. But I wonder if we'd bring the Italian mafia into the fray if they had different last names.)

Respectfully snipped.

YES. THIS.

Not to mention the Albanian groups, the Chinese groups, the Russian groups etc.

If Gianni was spelled Johnny, would we be ranting about the mafia?

They are victims. Until some evidence of wrongdoing on their part comes to light, I think all of this talk of complicated drug deals and organized crime connections is horrible.

Just my opinion.