GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[Mouse]

necco and ktgirl have raised some good points. I'd like to see the discussion maybe not veer so much into Coppola-esque Hollywood stereotyping. I do think there's some validity to considering the entire spectrum of scenarios that could have occurred here, and certain behaviors are statistically more likely among certain age groups than others. (Nobody was speculating a couple of weeks ago that Gianni had disappeared because of a mid-life crisis, for example. Whereas, if I disappear, "mid-life crisis" would be a far more likely scenario than, "Middle-aged midwestern woman in mom jeans ran into trouble while buying E in the parking lot of the local Farm-n-Fleet." ) But there's a difference between considering possible scenarios based on circumstances of a particular crime, and assuming certain behaviors probably occurred because of belonging to a larger demographic group. If heaven forbid something happened to me, it would be completely valid for all of you to speculate: "Well, Mouse was a professor...were there any students who were angry that they failed her class? Angry enough to hurt her, maybe? And all her colleagues say that she did have a habit of staying in her office really late, so it might be easy for someone to snatch her after everyone else in the department had gone home for the night. Someone should talk to the security guard." But it wouldn't be particularly helpful for you guys to speculate, "Well, that picture they keep showing on the news shows that Mouse was a redhead, and you know that redheads are pretty temperamental and quick to anger. Also, they like to drink a lot, because all redheads are Irish, and you know how the Irish love their booze. So we should probably check at all the local bars for anyone who saw a fiery-tempered redhead starting a drunken brawl that maybe escalated to murder, even though nobody has said anything about her ever going to the local bars or even drinking very much, and her husband says she has the patience of a saint."

Having said that...of course it happens all the time that family and friends will swear up and down on camera that of course Mouse doesn't drink, and of course she'd never start a fight in a local bar, because all she does is stay late at work to grade papers. And then it comes out that I lost my teaching job two years ago, and I've been spending my days pubcrawling and brawling my way through the local bar scene, breaking chairs over heads and slamming tequila like there's no tomorrow, and my family was none the wiser. But that would be because people in general lie, and people in general think the best of their loved ones...not because redheads, or professors, or women who name themselves after rodents, are any more likely to live a double-life than anyone else. So consider all the possibilities of what could have happened here. But consider them because any time spent at WS will quickly show you that people from all walks of life will do all kinds of crazy ***** you never could have imagined, not because they are "shady Italians."

For what it's worth, my money is on resentment over business dealings gone awry. Because no matter the age or the heritage, Business + Family = Volatile Situation.

 

[Mouse]

PS: Just in case any of you maybe failed one of my classes, and are thinking about hanging around campus late at night to maybe get revenge: I am a fiery-tempered, tequila-slamming, bar-brawling redhead, and I will take you down. So don't even go there. Just re-take the course with a different prof next time.

 

[Sandyggo]

For what it's worth, my money is on resentment over business dealings gone awry. Because no matter the age or the heritage, Business + Family = Volatile Situation.

I agree.

For one thing, these families have long ties in these Italian food ventures and several of the businesses have multiple owners (like 8 and more). Also, there are these facts: Mario's in Lakeside posted that it was changing hands in December, 2013. Ottavio's in Provo was closed in 2009. Ottavio's in El Cajon closed in 2012. Mangia Bene Ristorante Italino in El Cajon, closed in 2013. All of these business are inter-rated by the families. When businesses close, investments are lost.

 

[SDguy]

And if anyone wonders why I'm so brutally honest or thinks I'm snitching it's nothing like that there are 3 dead people if you want to sell drugs and kill people you deserve to go to jail and if you get caught selling drugs look at it as a blessing in disguise and make something of yourself no more parents should have to bury any kids due wannabe business deals with all the effort a drug dealer spends selling drugs half that effort applied towards something legit could make for a very successful person who is proud of themselves at the end of the day. OK I'm done ranting

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I appreciate all the insight you've brought to this thread....but I hate that word with a passion.

When it comes to trivial things, yeah snitching can be unnecessary and annoying.

But when we're trying to find answers for the families of three young people, there's no such thing as snitching.

 

[Sandyggo]

I haven't asked around to any of my x connections in City Heights or the ones who live in those apartments you can see from the 15 freeway on Aero by Tierra Santa but I think the answer lays there. I don't have Google access right now to look up the name of the apartments but they're huge and up a hill they actually might even be on Friars east?

@ thebestinthewest, Are you referring to "La Mirage?" It's the huge apartment community that is above I-15 at Friars. The community that is one the east side of I-15 near Aero Drive is "Canyon View - Murphy Canyon" military housing.

 

[nikb]

necco and ktgirl have raised some good points. I'd like to see the discussion maybe not veer so much into Coppola-esque Hollywood stereotyping.
<snipped for space and focus>

So consider all the possibilities of what could have happened here. But consider them because any time spent at WS will quickly show you that people from all walks of life will do all kinds of crazy ***** you never could have imagined, not because they are "shady Italians."

For what it's worth, my money is on resentment over business dealings gone awry. Because no matter the age or the heritage, Business + Family = Volatile Situation.

Totally agree with you here. I'm pretty willing to bet none of us have spotless pasts. I also think business deal + family makes the most sense, although I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's something else. I also think if his last name was say "Garcia" we'd be reading different theories involving cartels from Mexico.

Also, just jumping off your post, I happen to be married to a Sicilian, and his family has a crazy background. If you go back a generation or two they're probably 50/50 on having mafia involvement - those involved were pretty heavily involved, those who weren't HATE the actions of those who were (for the record husband's on the non-mafia side). Among the younger generation no one talks about it much, but among the older generation it comes up once in awhile and OMG the stories. However, I also know of people from many other backgrounds that have shady stories among their friends and family. It kind of bothers me to think that a name might lead to blindness in solving cases (I hope I'm wrong, it just makes me wonder).

 

[MsFacetious]

Could be something like that.

But IMO, I disagree on these thoughts...

1. Why have a drug deal in a mall parking lot, out in the open? There are cameras, security guards and a cop can drive up any moment.

2. Mission Valley Mall has covered parking. Why not do the deal inside the parking lot? See #1.

3. Having your girlfriend at a drug deal is not a good idea. Why risk danger or a bust. I think these guys had more class than that.

I would agree the mall is a bad idea. However, I think the covered parking would be an even worse idea.
I went to visit my cousin once while she was pregnant, I was like 9 years old.
Her boyfriend took BOTH of us to buy drugs. She was not happy with that. :facepalm:

familiar with area. whether gianni was in tierrasanta or on friars road at 10pm, both are relatively close to mission valley mall and within reason that he could meet up with brother/ girlfriend by 1am or sooner. believe that all 3 were together when this went down. and his car was used by poi as getaway car.

Why not kill Gianni and TAKE his car? Why take him as well?
Either way they would be looking for a potential killer in that car.
I just don't see the motive in taking one of them along.

 

[necco]

Why not kill Gianni and TAKE his car? Why take him as well?
Either way they would be looking for a potential killer in that car.
I just don't see the motive in taking one of them along.

Respectfully snipped.

My only guess for why Gianni's body was taken is that he was killed first and the killer did not want his body to be found and possibly warn Sal and Ilona. Whether he was killed first by design or the killer was really after Gianni, I don't know.

 

[nikb]

And if anyone wonders why I'm so brutally honest or thinks I'm snitching it's nothing like that there are 3 dead people if you want to sell drugs and kill people you deserve to go to jail and if you get caught selling drugs look at it as a blessing in disguise and make something of yourself no more parents should have to bury any kids due wannabe business deals with all the effort a drug dealer spends selling drugs half that effort applied towards something legit could make for a very successful person who is proud of themselves at the end of the day. OK I'm done ranting

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I really hope you're calling in whatever info you have. Totally agree with you, no more parents should have to bury kids over this stuff.

 

[thebestinthewest]

I have to admit, I know nothing about how drug deals go down. I assumed only small deals went down on the streets and in the open. If the speculation is this could have been a high dollar figure transaction, I would think more discretion would be exercised.

Anyway, I'm sure the case will be solved with a lot of help from cell phone records. LE is probably pouring over mounds of cell phone data and matching things up. The can subpoena the phone numbers of every phone that connected to text/calls at towers near the mall for a specific time frame.

They just have to follow to trail of crumbs from those smartphones.

Sandy - it's fine I'll pick you up and we can go buy some drugs lol jk be happy you don't know how drug deals work



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[kimmypie1]

I think there is a different meaning to the Facebook post referenced above. IMO it may be possible that Sal had a genuine problem with addition at some point. His family became concerned. Perhaps no one could get a hold of him for a few days and that post was made out of concern and sort of a way to make him feel guilty and get in touch with them.

He had been in Oregon working and had recently returned. If that post was in October 2012 and he had just returned in December 2013 or around that time it is possible. Did anyone read anything about where he worked up there? I don't recall hearing about any family restaurants up there.

These are just my opinions. Not trying to speak ill of the dead. Just trying to put pieces of this puzzle together.

 

[Sandyggo]

I think there is a different meaning to the Facebook post referenced above. IMO it may be possible that Sal had a genuine problem with addition at some point. His family became concerned. Perhaps no one could get a hold of him for a few days and that post was made out of concern and sort of a way to make him feel guilty and get in touch with them.

He had been in Oregon working and had recently returned. If that post was in October 2012 and he had just returned in December 2013 or around that time it is possible. Did anyone read anything about where he worked up there? I don't recall hearing about any family restaurants up there.

These are just my opinions. Not trying to speak ill of the dead. Just trying to put pieces of this puzzle together.

They have businesses everywhere. They may be related to family businesses in Camarillo, California.

My feeling about Facebook is that it is used for light subjects, and I doubt the family is going to discuss topics like addiction.

And, Laura Belvedere has had ample opportunity to remove that post and has not done so. She need not explain to us why, but it is probably so irrelevant the family is probably laughing at such speculation.

IMO The post is an inside joke and amount to nothing. These kids showed up to work and did their jobs. Sal was not a bad kid, he may have run into a bad crowd.

 

[kimmypie1]

They have businesses everywhere. They may be related to family businesses in Camarillo, California.

My feeling about Facebook is that it is used for light subjects, and I doubt the family is going to discuss topics like addiction.

And, Laura Belvedere has had ample opportunity to remove that post and has not done so. She need not explain to us why, but it is probably so irrelevant the family is probably laughing at such speculation.

IMO The post is an inside joke and amount to nothing. These kids showed up to work and did their jobs. Sal was not a bad kid, he may have run into a bad crowd.

They said he was in Oregon, not Camarillo. And she didn't mention anything about addiction, I never said she did. She may have been desperate to reach him and after trying every other avenue, she posted that on Facebook as a last resort.

I have seen that exact scenario play out with an old neighbor of mine who went on a bender and no one could reach him and they eventually got him to come home because they posted on facebook and one of his friends saw it and convinced him to go home. And I never said he was a bad kid. Addiction can happen to ANYONE good or bad. I am not saying he was addicted either this is all just MOO.

Personally I don't know anyone who would joke about planning someone's funeral. Death isn't really something to make an inside joke about, but that's just me.

 

[necco]

Personally I don't know anyone who would joke about planning someone's funeral. Death isn't really something to make an inside joke about, but that's just me.

Respectfully snipped.

Inside jokes about death are common among people I know. This may have something to do with cultural heritage. Some ethnic groups include children from a very young age in funerals and other death festivities. Yes, I said festivities, because often for those of Italian descent (and Irish to name two) the funeral itself is followed by a large family party: food, drink and reminiscing. I can recall one funeral home with a mini golf course in the basement for the kids to play during the wake.

Maybe my friends are morbid, but we do joke about what we want done with our bodies when we die: some want to be made into a tree, others a diamond and there is one rather odd fellow who wants to be stuffed and brought out at parties.

I don't see a Facebook post from nearly 2 years ago to be a real credible threat, especially when she has had ample opportunity to remove it. It just seems like a casual sibling expression of either annoyance or revenge for something silly.

 

[kimmypie1]

Respectfully snipped.

Inside jokes about death are common among people I know. This may have something to do with cultural heritage. Some ethnic groups include children from a very young age in funerals and other death festivities. Yes, I said festivities, because often for those of Italian descent (and Irish to name two) the funeral itself is followed by a large family party: food, drink and reminiscing. I can recall one funeral home with a mini golf course in the basement for the kids to play during the wake.

Maybe my friends are morbid, but we do joke about what we want done with our bodies when we die: some want to be made into a tree, others a diamond and there is one rather odd fellow who wants to be stuffed and brought out at parties.

I don't see a Facebook post from nearly 2 years ago to be a real credible threat, especially when she has had ample opportunity to remove it. It just seems like a casual sibling expression of either annoyance or revenge for something silly.

Good point about the cultural differences. I do want to point out that I wasn't saying his sister was threatening him, I was saying she could have been saying something like "ok we haven't hear from you and think you are dead" sort of thing. Just don't want my thoughts to be misunderstood

 

[Curious Me]

January 27th
Today's news article is just going over the timeline.

Timeline: Triple Homicide Mystery
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/54179886/ns/local_news-san_diego_ca/#.UuatbGfTn9E

 

[thebestinthewest]

I joke on my facebook all the time about dying usually because of a hangover or a misadventure in Vegas but I always say Avenge my Death...He was probably going to Vegas haha <modsnip>

 

[thebestinthewest]

@ thebestinthewest, Are you referring to "La Mirage?" It's the huge apartment community that is above I-15 at Friars. The community that is one the east side of I-15 near Aero Drive is "Canyon View - Murphy Canyon" military housing.

Sandy-Exactly the place! It has more designer drug dealers than Charlie Sheen's house. If someone had the time to drive through the place and get the license plates on on all the Honda's 2008-2010 it might be a good start.

 

[bessie]

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[Curious Me]

There is no news on this case today. Are you all still looking for someone wearing tan pants and a striped bicep sweater? Good, keeping looking. The investigation does not seem to require the public's help in finding the person of interest. LE has not shared any videos from the mall of this person of interest who may be responsible for killing three people.

OT, but look at how clear of a video they have of this woman who was using stolen credit cards Christmas Eve Day in big stores and malls in San Diego. It's a very clear video, and she might look familiar to someone. She got those cards from breaking into a car in the Sea World parking lot. It makes me wonder why we aren't seeing even a grainy photo of the POI possibly connected to the actual murders of Ilona, Sal, and Gianni. LE must be working the case behind the scenes. Hope this case doesn't go cold.

Reward offered for break-in bandit accused of stealing $50k
http://www.sandiego6.com/story/reward-offered-for-break-in-bandit-accused-of-stealing-50k-20140128