CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[Stunned]

Friend of family in cliff crash: ‘I think Jen and Sarah should be idolized’

A close friend of the Hart family believes their SUV may have misjudged the California highway at night, instead of intentionally driving off the cliff.

PORTLAND, Ore. – A friend of the family killed after their SUV went off a cliff on the California coast said speculation about ongoing abuse makes “a tragedy even worse.”

“I think Jen and Sarah [Hart] should be idolized,” said Erica Rosser, who first met the married couple and their six adopted children when they were living in West Linn.

But close friend Rosser, who met the family through their shared passion for live music, said those details omit the family’s real story: That they were loving, active and full of love.

“I don’t think you could find anybody that they’ve met that could say a negative thing about them,” she said.

“Their parenting and their partnership was beautiful,” Rosser said. “These children came from scary, scary home situations [before the adoption]. Not only neglectful but scary – drugs and guns. And to have them turn out this way, everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah. It’s because of their love. You can’t have a happy, smiling, abused child that doesn’t get love. There’s absolutely no abuse.”

The Hart family, according to Rosser, “celebrated everything.” She shared a video she took of the family sharing sushi with their dog, Mowgli, for the dog’s birthday.
http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...nk-jen-and-sarah-should-be-idolized/533689360

the bolded portion above really bothers me.

"...everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah."


These kids deserve love BECAUSE OF JEN AND SARA? That is condescending and rude, in my opinion. Those children would have been unlovable if it weren't for the two women who were caring for them? How does that work?

Someone should check on her kids, if she has any.

 

[gitana1]

Friend of family in cliff crash: ‘I think Jen and Sarah should be idolized’

A close friend of the Hart family believes their SUV may have misjudged the California highway at night, instead of intentionally driving off the cliff.

PORTLAND, Ore. – A friend of the family killed after their SUV went off a cliff on the California coast said speculation about ongoing abuse makes “a tragedy even worse.”

“I think Jen and Sarah [Hart] should be idolized,” said Erica Rosser, who first met the married couple and their six adopted children when they were living in West Linn.

But close friend Rosser, who met the family through their shared passion for live music, said those details omit the family’s real story: That they were loving, active and full of love.

“I don’t think you could find anybody that they’ve met that could say a negative thing about them,” she said.

“Their parenting and their partnership was beautiful,” Rosser said. “These children came from scary, scary home situations [before the adoption]. Not only neglectful but scary – drugs and guns. And to have them turn out this way, everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah. It’s because of their love. You can’t have a happy, smiling, abused child that doesn’t get love. There’s absolutely no abuse.”

The Hart family, according to Rosser, “celebrated everything.” She shared a video she took of the family sharing sushi with their dog, Mowgli, for the dog’s birthday.
http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...nk-jen-and-sarah-should-be-idolized/533689360

the bolded portion above really bothers me.

"...everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah."

These kids deserve love BECAUSE OF JEN AND SARA? That is condescending and rude, in my opinion. Those children would have been unlovable if it weren't for the two women who were caring for them? How does that work?

Idolized, huh lady? So we idolize people who bend their six year olds over bathtubs and spank them so hard they have bruises all over their stomach and back? We idolize people convicted of child abuse? We idolize people who parade their vulnerable children around at highly politically or emotionally charged events yet isolate them socially from their own peers?

Should we idolize people who flee from CPS? Who have children trained not to speak to their neighbors? Whose kids run from the home and beg for help?

Nice.

Oh and anyone who has ever ever worked with abused kids or knows how children of abusive and narcissistic parents act know they often appear super engaging, affectionate, loving and sweet. Even as babies.

The Turpin kids were and are absolutely the most charming and lovely kids. They didn't get that way because their parents showered them with love.

A close friend of the Hart family believes their SUV may have misjudged the California highway at night, instead of intentionally driving off the cliff.


[From the link above]



I do not see any possibility that she 'misjudged the highway at night.'

I am very familiar with Highway 1. I grew up in Northern Cali and we drove that highway all the time.

When you are going South on Highway One, you are HIGHLY AWARE of the ocean, right alongside the road. You are hyper aware of the cliffs and the danger, which is often just a few feet away from the edge of your lane.

There is no way that a driver on that road, would not be aware that making a hard right turn would take you over a cliff. It is OBVIOUS at all times that the ocean is right there, on your right.

And from photos it's a distance from the road. 75 feet?

I feel everyone we've heard from who knew the family are misjudging them. I don't know that when they went around friends or even family that they portrayed themselves as the perfect family. That doesn't mean that in secret Sarah and Jen weren't abusive tho. I mean all the major red flags are there the kids begged neighbors for help and said they were abused more than once, one of the children went to school bruised and her mother Sarah was charged for it (I think there was more to this story as well that we don't know) and after this they switched states and home schooled the kids the biggest red flag, the children tell similar stories of being starved and abused as a form of punishment, the children were kept in a house that according to people who have seen the house was spotless to the point you couldn't tell one let alone 6 teenagers lived there, the children were always either dancing, singing or acting for the amusement of the adults around them just look up Jen harts YouTube it's sick to have a child that is about 13 or 14 years old dancing around in his underwear, child service had been involved multiple times, the family only left after the last battle with cps. I think it's also been made clear the family were more about Jen and Sarah than the Kids. If you look at their fbs or anything it's the devonte show. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but when you have 6 children it's probably fair and best especially these children with abusive backgrounds and troubled past that these parents show each child equal love. I wonder if the biological families know about this tragedy yet. This whole thing sickens me and how anyone can over look the things I've pointed out and say it was accidental is insane. Too many red flags whatever this family were doing when they crashed they were running from cps.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Well Devonte knew how to perform. He had it down. So he was featured.

I do disagree about the underwear comment. What he was wearing is not much different from any bathing suit. I find us Americans much too puritan when it comes to this kind of thing. And I notice that the stricter a culture is when it comes to things like that, the more actual perversion - i.e. sex abuse/assault, child molestation, etc.- there is, present in that culture.

In general though I think no kids should be posted on public social media. Keep it set to private/unlisted. They should have the choice as adults to determine if their images when they were children are made public.

 

[travelbug]

All six of them looked malnourished, just like the Turpin children. They've had custody of the kids for 10 years. They should have been putting on a bit of weight by now.

This just reinforces my belief, that not only should we have free universal healthcare for everyone, but it should be mandatory especially for children.

The problem, in situations such as these, isn't just the financial burden. Abusive parents will frequently allow their children to suffer, and occasionally pass away, without taking them for medical care. They can't risk a "mandated reporter", discovering their abuse. That's also why they are isolated from others such as teachers, clergy and friends. These disgusting and heartbreaking cases depend upon controlling and isolating the poor victims. :banghead:

 

[ilovepierre]

[bbm]

bizarre ... is it O/T to ask why?

It's the law.

 

[cady]

A close friend of the Hart family believes their SUV may have misjudged the California highway at night, instead of intentionally driving off the cliff.


[From the link above]



I do not see any possibility that she 'misjudged the highway at night.'

I am very familiar with Highway 1. I grew up in Northern Cali and we drove that highway all the time.

When you are going South on Highway One, you are HIGHLY AWARE of the ocean, right alongside the road. You are hyper aware of the cliffs and the danger, which is often just a few feet away from the edge of your lane.

There is no way that a driver on that road, would not be aware that making a hard right turn would take you over a cliff. It is OBVIOUS at all times that the ocean is right there, on your right.

YUP gotta watch out for the "misjudgment" of those darned SUVs.....after all, they get confused and sleepy, too.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I believe if you choose to put your children at risk in a vehicle not belted in its NO accident. Perhaps the women thought they would survive since belted in and children would die therefore making it look like an accident so they couldn’t talk to CPS. That tells me whose lives were more important. My kids are grown but I make sure anyone in my car when Im driving is seat belted. There is no excuse for it. The woman not driving could have checked but they DID NOT CARE about the kids.

 

[beatrixpotter]

I strongly suspect all 6 children had a mix of significant cognitive, mental health, and physical disabilities. I would guess that their functional ages were much lower than their chronological ages. If so, that could account for some of the stranger things we have observed (a lack of age appropriate activities or possessions, for instance). It could also account for the effusive praise by those who knew them, as well as the convenient overlooking of the prior abuse charge. "You don't know what they have to deal with, those poor women, they're doing the best they can, those children wouldn't have had a chance otherwise," etc.

I think the women had a certain idea in their heads when they adopted those children that was proven wrong with each passing year (as the extent of early childhood damage became more and more apparent). They needed to be saviors but their kids weren't magically healing from their perfect, loving home. My tentative feeling is that dealing with a bunch of cute children is much more rewarding than dealing with a bunch of disabled and belligerent teenagers. I'm wondering if increasing realism about the life-long needs of the children was too much for their savior complex or narcissism. Knowing another battle with CPS was coming might have pushed them over the edge, so to speak.

MOO

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this. I have long suspected that they might have been critically overwhelmed by the difficulty of 6 children with special needs, especially children who dealt with significant early childhood abuse and are likely dealing with things like reactive attachment disorder.

To be clear, I have no experience with this. But I've seen enough large families personally who adopted children with this and it can just be practically crippling. I greatly greatly admire people who can do this. But I know despite having a large family myself I would not be up to this task right now in my life, maybe never. And I doubt that many people are really up to the task. It is not the same as just the ordinary already hard job of raising children who are mentally and physically healthy. I have one friend who has basically had to spend a part time job's worth of her life just jumping through hoops to get her children the services they need and the state and insurance were obligated to provide.

I keep wondering of the dynamics of that home. Wondering how potentially overwhelmed they might have been with what the children needed. But then I wonder...but what services and help were they getting? Any? We've heard nothing of that. You can not just LOVE away reactive attachment disorder for example.

Being 19 yo does not mean a child that age is capable of holding down any sort of job or living away from home though. That's for children are who are developmentally on target and not dealing with significant trauma. And Sarah and Jen are the ones who have repeatedly said their kids came from horrific abuse. I read where she said DH had handled weapons and used drugs and alcohol by the time he was adopted at 4 yo.

I have some doubts about the history they portray. It just doesn't add up to me. I read the article linked of what DH supposedly said to someone in the grocery checkout a few years back. It just does NOT sound like something a child would say. It doesn't sound like something that would be said by a kid who she claimed could barely speak at the age of 4 yo. It sounds like something a child who was very advanced and fairly erudite for their age might say...or something a mother with a social and or political agenda might claim their child said.

But I find it very very hard to believe that their children were BOTH horrifically abused and neglected and behind when they were adopted. And then are now incredibly advanced and wise beyond their years now as teens. The teen years are rough for kids without a history of abuse and trauma.

I just find so much of what they projected online fake and phony. And ordinarily 6 kids with the kind of history they claimed to have had would be developmentally and socially behind and requiring a lot of therapy and help even now. It's not something they'd just necessarily magically grow out of with a lot of love. At least that's what I've seen personally with other families. The kids needs are overwhelming and long term. So I find it odd to hear of a family with 6 kids who are presented as being far and away better off than the typical child from a late adoption who also just so happened to have even worse and more violent childhoods than might be typical. How likely is that?!

 

[human]

Idolized, huh lady? So we idolize people who bend their six year olds over bathtubs and spank them so hard they have bruises all over their stomach and back? We idolize people convicted of child abuse? We idolize people who parade their vulnerable children around at highly politically or emotionally charged events yet isolate them socially from their own peers?

Should we idolize people who flee from CPS? Who have children trained not to speak to their neighbors? Whose kids run from the home and beg for help?

Nice.

Oh and anyone who has ever ever worked with abused kids or knows how children of abusive and narcissistic parents act know they often appear super engaging, affectionate, loving and sweet. Even as babies.

The Turpin kids were and are absolutely the most charming and lovely kids. They didn't get that way because their parents showered them with love.



And from photos it's a distance from the road. 75 feet?



Well Devonte knew how to perform. He had it down. So he was featured.

I do disagree about the underwear comment. What he was wearing is not much different from any bathing suit. I find us Americans much too puritan when it comes to this kind of thing. And I notice that the stricter a culture is when it comes to things like that, the more actual perversion - i.e. sex abuse/assault, child molestation, etc.- there is, present in that culture.

In general though I think no kids should be posted on public social media. Keep it set to private/unlisted. They should have the choice as adults to determine if their images when they were children are made public.

Actually, the perversion is not true,. There is a lot of child made in Scandinavia. Kids are regularly sold in Thailand

 

[whitelilac]

Makes this awful tragedy even more horrific.
Those poor children....

intentional...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...d-by-authorities-to-be-intentional/ar-AAvlO6W

http://bestynews.com/fatal-hart-family-crash-appears-intentional-chp-confirms/

 

[beatrixpotter]

The first article I read on this mentioned the mothers having their seat belts on and that none of the children had their seat belts on. This immediately struck me as so off and it is just always there in the back of mind when reading about this. We don't leave our driveway or a parking lot etc without making sure every kid has their seat belt on. Now I don't need to even ask that of my teens. It's just automatic at that age.

So why would they all have theirs off? How would you even tell all your kids to unbuckle or why? I can't even imagine a scenario in the car in which I would suggest my kids all take off their seat belts. If they tried subtly or otherwise the kids HAD to have found that very odd. It would be like telling your kids to pick up their dinner plates off the table and set them on the floor to finish their meal.

I'd really prefer to think those children had absolutely no idea what was coming before being driven off a cliff. But even if my kids were asleep on a trip they'd have their seat belts on. Could one of the women have unbuckled them all while they slept in the middle of the night or something? (That would not be easy to do) And if so why? To help ensure death in a car accident? Then why keep theirs on?

 

[beatrixpotter]

Makes this awful tragedy even more horrific.
Those poor children....

intentional...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...d-by-authorities-to-be-intentional/ar-AAvlO6W

http://bestynews.com/fatal-hart-family-crash-appears-intentional-chp-confirms/

[FONT=&quot]Devonte, 15, and his two sisters, Hannah, 16, and Sierra, 12, who were also riding in the car during the incident, remain missing. CHP Acting Assistant Chief Greg Baarts said they could not determine which woman was driving the car at the time of the crash.[/FONT]

IF they both had their seat belts on how is it not possible to identify who was driving? Even if badly damaged it would be more appropriate to say they can't identify who "at this time". But since they know exactly who the two women were and said they wore seat belts they should be able to figure this out eventually.

 

[katydid23]

The problem, in situations such as these, isn't just the financial burden. Abusive parents will frequently allow their children to suffer, and occasionally pass away, without taking them for medical care. They can't risk a "mandated reporter", discovering their abuse. That's also why they are isolated from others such as teachers, clergy and friends. These disgusting and heartbreaking cases depend upon controlling and isolating the poor victims. :banghead:

Yes, so true.

Which is why I am wondering about the homeschooling thing. Someone upthread posted that the family had not enrolled with the state as homeschooling their family yet.

I know that in California, the students are assessed periodically to make sure they are actually learning to read and do math and are hitting educational benchmarks. I assume Oregon has a similar process to make sure kids are actually learning something while being home schooled.

I guess it is no surprise that they failed to register. I wonder if the kids were really getting any valid instruction and education?

 

[Zelda1010]

Now they are taking back that Jen was driving!?! If they were belted in....I'm so confused.

Editor's note: This story initially said Jennifer Hart was driving the SUV. Greg Baarts, Acting Assistant Chief for CHP, Northern Division, said he could not speculate as to which woman was driving the vehicle.

http://www.king5.com/mobile/article...ppears-intentional-chp-confirms/283-533859540

 

[Marah]

Do we have a basic timeline? Any idea what day the police think they went over the edge?

 

[Starkville]

IF they both had their seat belts on how is it not possible to identify who was driving? Even if badly damaged it would be more appropriate to say they can't identify who "at this time". But since they know exactly who the two women were and said they wore seat belts they should be able to figure this out eventually.

Right? I could have sworn they had already determined which woman was driving. How could they not have? That’s odd.

 

[enelram]

Do we have a basic timeline? Any idea what day the police think they went over the edge?

No idea, police said engine was cool when car was found and water in wheelwells was warmer than ocean indicating
the car had been there during warmth of daytime.

I'm wondering if the car interior was so badly mangled, maybe seats detached (?), early reports said 2 adults could
not be extricated or cut out of car before towing car up the cliff, so they just left the 2 bodies inside while towing.

 

[JanetElaine]

I do have concerns about them being able to determine if the 3 missing were ever in the ocean or not.

There was a very similar incident, with missing couple from Los Angeles, in Christmas of 2016. A young couple and their 2 dogs, ended up going off a cliff, onto the ocean rocks, in San Luis Obispo.

It is still not determined if it was accidental or not, and only one body was found.


A COUPLE WENT MISSING ON AN IDYLLIC ROAD TRIP—BUT ONLY ONE BODY WAS FOUND

“There’s not closure because we don’t really know what’s going on,” a relative said.


In early January, police found the remains of Gonzalez and the one of the dogs near her wrecked vehicle 325 below the coast highway, near the ocean, reportedThe Los Angeles Times. The body of a second dog was found a few days later, according to the Los Angeles Daily News.

But Fernandez, who wasn’t in the wrecked vehicle, is still missing. “It’s possible he was ejected into the water,” said Tony Cipolla, a spokesman for the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff’s Department, to the LA Times. Authorities announced they had finished the search for Fernandez on Jan. 20, without locating his body.

http://www.oxygen.com/blogs/a-coupl...idyllic-road-trip-but-only-one-body-was-found


Divers searched for his body for nearly a month, and never found a trace of him.

Thank you! I couldn't remember their names and couldn't find it. But I'd been thinking of this exact case since the start of this.

 

[chihuahua]

Just beginning on page one...so sad I had posted this on my FB days ago.
Marking my spot,

 

[Talulah]

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this. I have long suspected that they might have been critically overwhelmed by the difficulty of 6 children with special needs, especially children who dealt with significant early childhood abuse and are likely dealing with things like reactive attachment disorder.

To be clear, I have no experience with this. But I've seen enough large families personally who adopted children with this and it can just be practically crippling. I greatly greatly admire people who can do this. But I know despite having a large family myself I would not be up to this task right now in my life, maybe never. And I doubt that many people are really up to the task. It is not the same as just the ordinary already hard job of raising children who are mentally and physically healthy. I have one friend who has basically had to spend a part time job's worth of her life just jumping through hoops to get her children the services they need and the state and insurance were obligated to provide.

I keep wondering of the dynamics of that home. Wondering how potentially overwhelmed they might have been with what the children needed. But then I wonder...but what services and help were they getting? Any? We've heard nothing of that. You can not just LOVE away reactive attachment disorder for example.

Being 19 yo does not mean a child that age is capable of holding down any sort of job or living away from home though. That's for children are who are developmentally on target and not dealing with significant trauma. And Sarah and Jen are the ones who have repeatedly said their kids came from horrific abuse. I read where she said DH had handled weapons and used drugs and alcohol by the time he was adopted at 4 yo.

I have some doubts about the history they portray. It just doesn't add up to me. I read the article linked of what DH supposedly said to someone in the grocery checkout a few years back. It just does NOT sound like something a child would say. It doesn't sound like something that would be said by a kid who she claimed could barely speak at the age of 4 yo. It sounds like something a child who was very advanced and fairly erudite for their age might say...or something a mother with a social and or political agenda might claim their child said.

But I find it very very hard to believe that their children were BOTH horrifically abused and neglected and behind when they were adopted. And then are now incredibly advanced and wise beyond their years now as teens. The teen years are rough for kids without a history of abuse and trauma.

I just find so much of what they projected online fake and phony. And ordinarily 6 kids with the kind of history they claimed to have had would be developmentally and socially behind and requiring a lot of therapy and help even now. It's not something they'd just necessarily magically grow out of with a lot of love. At least that's what I've seen personally with other families. The kids needs are overwhelming and long term. So I find it odd to hear of a family with 6 kids who are presented as being far and away better off than the typical child from a late adoption who also just so happened to have even worse and more violent childhoods than might be typical. How likely is that?!

This echos many of my thoughts. The grocery store scene seemed made up to me, or at the very least, blown way out of proportion. It was too *convenient* a story to share, in light of their activism. And yes, it doesn't make sense to me that a child with the level of delays Devonte had at 4 would be that advanced a few years later, though I suppose his delays could have been addressed with therapy and other supports. Still, that is an awfully lot for a child to overcome to end up as exceptional as he is described.

A lot of what the DeKalb's describe could be indicative of either previously traumatized *or* currently abused children. Or both. I do believe the women were abusive, but I wonder how they would have coped with fewer children who were more typical in their development, with less of a trauma history. I'm also curious how much help they sought out for their children and themselves. I hope people that matter are following this case to determine if these were simply a pair of narcissistic liars who turned out to be family annihilators when their props refused to behave, or if there is anything else that can be learned from this.

 

[everybodhi]

I think they have read the black box from the Tahoe.
I think the reason they keep saying they believe the kids were in the car is because the black box showed all 6 kids in seatbelts when they pulled onto the turnout off of US1.
Maybe they walked the dogs and everyone peed.
I think it was late night/early morning, dark. Maybe they told the kids they were going to nap on the side of the road.
I think they were asleep. I hope they were asleep.
But, I think they kept the kids calm, they had no idea what was being planned, or some of them would have run, they were old enough.
At some point, the driver drove slowly over the edge, leaving no sign of excellerating or breaking. But, when the car traversed the cliff edge, she put her foot on the gas out of fear, causing the wheels to spin at 90mph as they fell, her foot pinned down the accelerator in death.
The doors flew open, the kids fell out, 3 went out with the tide and are deep under the cold Pacific Ocean.
It could have been one mom, deciding on her own, while the other mom slept, or they could have made some sick pact. I don’t know.
This is all speculation on my part, based on what we know.