CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

[MzOpinion8d]

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Some of you are so good at this kind of thing. Now that we know or think they would have been traveling N before entering, what changes? Is it possible to enter the area at a higher rate of speed? Do we see tracks up top or make more sense of the crash site with a different angle of entry off the road?

That graphic from this article assumes Hart's were traveling South. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/hart_children_immediately_pull.html

Since the data box said the vehicle was at a stop prior to accelerating and going over the edge, it doesn't change anything.

 

[keeleydoll]

Holy moly. I’ve battled an eating disorder a long time and the ribs showing on these kids are indicative of very low BMI. Very probably protein deficient malnutrition.

***changed my mind about the link with photos, search #hartfamily on Instagram


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[Sleuth99]

I find it interesting to say the least that Devante was begging for food for a week and the last day the DeKalb neighbors saw him was on THursday at 1130 pm and he he was claiming parents weren't feeding them and asked if Mr DeKalb had called CPS.....according to the DeKalb live interview....then by Friday night they were packing up and leaving........then this............not to mention past abuse and lies they told people......very suspicious. But accident or intentional it's very very tragic...praying they find the other 3 kids and dogs alive

According to the neighbors it went from 1 tortilla and some peanut butter to a request for 6!packs of tortillas, a CASE of peanut butter, appleS and cured meatS. I think he could have been doing one of the following
- getting more to share
- getting more in advance to avoid trips
- preparing to go a long time without food support on his own
- anticipating something

If he asked about if a call was made, and witnessed the women up and relocate he could have been anticipating that and planning something.

If he asked about if the dekalbs called, I think he found that information extremely important for him to know in advance.

Also if he took out the trash that provided him with an excuse to leave the house. If he told the Dekalb neighbors to leave food by the fence so he can pick it up he might have become more concerned with being seen, being gone for too long taking trash out, getting caught. So it's possible that the women were starting to take notice or suspect something.


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[Zelda1010]

Thank you for elaborating. That might be the case. What surprised me is the fact that, at least to me, her facial features look super different. She does resemble the other pictures but I would never be able to identify her if I saw her.

I think she's wearing those crazy leggings. Are they still super popular or has that died down. That would stick out in my mind even if I didn't see the rest of the clan or the vehicle.

 

[gcharlie]

I was thinking about the crash dynamics the other night. If the three children who were found were all seated on the middle seat, then they could easily have fallen through the open door as they didn't have seatbelts on.

The rear seat seems a lot harder to find a good exit during the actual crash. The windows don't look large enough for three bodies to get thrust out of them. It might be possible for one smaller child on the rear seat to go through the back window, but there would be limbs all over the place and I think that would impede three of them going out the windows.

I was thinking that anyone who survived the initial impact might crawl out of the car into the surf and expire in the waves and wash up on the rocks. I suppose with strong rip tides they might also end up washed out to sea?

And I could be totally wrong about the crash dynamics. It's not something I've ever really considered before other than the person in the middle of the rear seat getting thrust through the windshield in a forward-facing collision, especially if that's a small child.

The vehicle fell approximately 100 feet down a cliff. That's the equivalent of a 10 story building. Ejection from the vehicle was practically guaranteed for anyone not belted in.

Crash dynamics in such an accident are incredibly violent. My brother was killed in a rollover accident- pickup truck that went end over end four times. He was ejected on the first flip and went out a window, not the windshield.

The bodies from this crash suffered massive trauma from being thrown inside the vehicle prior to any ejection. There would have been additional trauma after ejection. Most likely they were dead or near death when they hit the rocks and water.

 

[Zelda1010]

I just feel like she may as well have just walked over and thrown herself off the cliff if she was going to suddenly have absolute determination to end the relationship right then and there.

If you live with an abusive partner, you know it's not wise to argue with them when there are weapons nearby. And a 70 foot drop off into the ocean is definitely a weapon in a scenario like that.

You avoid stairs and/or get to the lowest floor of the house, too, if you are surviving with an abusive person. If you can, you keep yourself safe, but sometimes you don't realize your mistaken calculations until it is too late. Jmo

 

[keeleydoll]

I was thinking about the crash dynamics the other night. If the three children who were found were all seated on the middle seat, then they could easily have fallen through the open door as they didn't have seatbelts on.

The rear seat seems a lot harder to find a good exit during the actual crash. The windows don't look large enough for three bodies to get thrust out of them. It might be possible for one smaller child on the rear seat to go through the back window, but there would be limbs all over the place and I think that would impede three of them going out the windows.

I was thinking that anyone who survived the initial impact might crawl out of the car into the surf and expire in the waves and wash up on the rocks. I suppose with strong rip tides they might also end up washed out to sea?

And I could be totally wrong about the crash dynamics. It's not something I've ever really considered before other than the person in the middle of the rear seat getting thrust through the windshield in a forward-facing collision, especially if that's a small child.

The rear windows are definitely large enough for a person to come out of. I can measure and update after my kids are done snacking.


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[MomGN2BMD]

The vehicle fell approximately 100 feet down a cliff. That's the equivalent of a 10 story building. Ejection from the vehicle was practically guaranteed for anyone not belted in.

Crash dynamics in such an accident are incredibly violent. My brother was killed in a rollover accident- pickup truck that went end over end four times. He was ejected on the first flip and went out a window, not the windshield.

The bodies from this crash suffered massive trauma from being thrown inside the vehicle prior to any ejection. There would have been additional trauma after ejection. Most likely they were dead or near death when they hit the rocks and water.

Yes, I concur, at least in terms of probability of ejection . As an EMT I saw people ejected from even "slow" speed collisions with no rolling - I've also been bewildered by people who had all the physics variables work in their favor and somehow survive and not be ejected when everything would indicate they should have been. The latter is extremely rare however.

 

[keeleydoll]

The rear windows are definitely large enough for a person to come out of. I can measure and update after my kids are done snacking.


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34” at bottom 32” at top and 19.5” tall. Larger by a good bit than the front and middle windows.


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[Eloise]

How come?

Because lots of people look different in photos where they're not controlling what they look like in them/aren't thinking they're being photographed.

Also stress can age you quickly. I've aged about 10 years in 2 for stress-related reasons.

 

[Zelda1010]

The photo here says car found Mon. Morning. Everything I've seen says car was reported at 3:45 pm Monday.
Has this changed? I know there was a LONG delay in CH
P showing up at scene.

Good question, I don't know. Since it was a very early graphic, it is hard to say if that Monday morning bit is still accurate. The image does appear to be credited to the sherrif's office though.

Since the data box said the vehicle was at a stop prior to accelerating and going over the edge, it doesn't change anything.

Valid point. It still might change the angle we might imagine them being stopped at before the "pure acceleration" going 70ft across the gravel to leave the cliff, no? Which makes me wonder where 70 ft measurement comes from. Is that measured from the shoulder of the roadway to the edge of cliff or is that coming from this black box info?

Of course crash reconstruction experts are doing this and we can just wait for their expert opinions.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Anyone else think Jen may have thrown a hissy fit in her rage and floored the accelerator facing the wrong direction?

Maybe The kids in the car driving her crazy. Hours on the road. Sarah on her nerves. CPS issues. She just snapped and floored it, not planned or premeditated. Maybe the kids were misbehaving in the rear, she stops to warn them and loses her $#!¥.

I don’t see someone planning something like THIS.

 

[DatelineFan]

Anyone else think Jen may have thrown a hissy fit in her rage and floored the accelerator facing the wrong direction?

Maybe The kids in the car driving her crazy. Hours on the road. Sarah on her nerves. CPS issues. She just snapped and floored it, not planned or premeditated. Maybe the kids were misbehaving in the rear, she stops to warn them and loses her $#!¥.

I don’t see someone planning something like THIS.

Unfortunately, I do. I think with cps closing in, and their history of running, this was planned.

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[DatelineFan]

"To the best of my knowledge, there was not a suicide note found at the residence," said Baarts, who added that authorities have been interviewing friends and family members of the Harts.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/0...s-on-unaccounted-for-hart-tribe-children.html

Well, yeah, no note would be consistent with the way these women would want to manage their public images.

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[SATA]

Anyone else think Jen may have thrown a hissy fit in her rage and floored the accelerator facing the wrong direction?

Maybe The kids in the car driving her crazy. Hours on the road. Sarah on her nerves. CPS issues. She just snapped and floored it, not planned or premeditated. Maybe the kids were misbehaving in the rear, she stops to warn them and loses her $#!¥.

I don’t see someone planning something like THIS.

I agree, I also have a hard time imagining someone planning this.

But if I imagine Jen being totally worked up, like you describe, I CAN see her making a snap decision and plunging the car over the edge on purpose - out of rage, frustration, exhaustion.
I think that woman had a short temper. Everything points to it.

 

[enelram]

Good question, I don't know. Since it was a very early graphic, it is hard to say if that Monday morning bit is still accurate. The image does appear to be credited to the sherrif's office though.



Valid point. It still might change the angle we might imagine them being stopped at before the "pure acceleration" going 70ft across the gravel to leave the cliff, no? Which makes me wonder where 70 ft measurement comes from. Is that measured from the shoulder of the roadway to the edge of cliff or is that coming from this black box info?

Of course crash reconstruction experts are doing this and we can just wait for their expert opinions.

Early on, before black box was used for info, LE said the gravel pulloff was 75 Ft. wide from road to cliff.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The rear windows are definitely large enough for a person to come out of. I can measure and update after my kids are done snacking.


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IIRC from photos of children standing in car, also consider the sunroof being open?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Couple of views - south to north.

 

[keeleydoll]

Well, yeah, no note would be consistent with the way these women would want to manage their public images.

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I think that even if it was only planned by one of them that their wouldn’t have been a note because she still wanted to basically be a martyr for their causes and was so wrapped up in that the idea of their past (and current) issues coming out wasn’t even a consideration.


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[georgiajean]

It looks like she’s wearing PJ bottoms. It’s around 8:30 the morning so maybe a quick store run bananas for cereal.

IMO it looks like the same white/black leggings from some other photos, and a shoulder bag with celestial theme that she has her hand in??