CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

[LietKynes]

Raw interview with neighbors in Woodland, Washington . Hard to listen to without crying.

http://www.kgw.com/mobile/video/new...wash-neighbors-of-the-hart-family/283-8064154

RSBM

Holy crapola.
And he thought she was maybe 7 years old when she was 15 ? :cry:
I'd like to know why the explanation was given (by the Hart women) that this child 'didn't want her teeth repaired' (paraphrased by me) ....... and how she lost her front teeth in the first place.

This case is very much like the Turpins' crimes.
Years of torture.
There is no excuse for these women.

 

[Zelda1010]

I found this blog post, from psych central so I hope it ok, during the Turpin case. This woman's thoughts on how one would handle a situation like Hannah showing up on your doorstep IRL have stuck with me....it seems relevant here too. What COULD you do? Even the DeKalb's father called LE months later about the Hannah situation and was reassured it didn't sound like LE would have been able to get involved.

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/narc...stages-are-they-to-blame-for-not-speaking-up/
What would you do if a ghostly, starving, filthy, stinky child approached you in a store and whispered something so unbelievable that your stomach churned. What would you do when their parent rushed over, grabbed them by the wrist and dragged them away with either a smile or a snarl of rage, quickly exiting the store for a fast getaway? Oh, I don’t mean what your courageous inner Legolas would do. Not the hero you imagine yourself in the dark watches of the night. But in real life. What would you have done? What could you have done against a well organized familial concentration camp?

 

[human]

Some reasons why I think Jen is more the perp of the final act...

She was the one accused of the beating of the six-year old. Jen's the one in the driving seat when it goes over the cliff. Jen's the one I'm seeing mostly talking about the family in articles. Jen's the one I'm seeing following SM and YouTube things about the family and adding her comments. Jen's the stay at home mom, which makes it most likely that she does most of the actual homeschooling (not that education is limited to school hours, but a lot of the schoolwork probably happened during her hours with the kids). Jen's the one who wrote that thing in 2017 listing all the stressors.

We seem to be finding out a lot more about Jen. I guess she seems to be mostly the one pushing the family forward in the sense of "here's our family, look at us"

Someone said if there was a cancer diagnosis why no "poor us", etc? Where have they ever asked for help? Where have they ever asked for money for themselves? They seem to be about causes and getting support for causes, always being seen helping others. I'm not seeing examples of them begging for any kind of help. During the period where Jen says they're going through all those stressors in 2017, she cut herself off from FB, cut herself off from a lot of the people in the 'hippy' circles, it even sounds like the whole family was shut off, shut away, during this period.

I'm not seeing very much about Sarah, other than her presence in some of the photos, to really draw any conclusions about her. She pled guilty even though the abuse allegation was against Jen. I find that questionable and confusing. It was suggested by someone here that it might have been a decision based on Jen being the SAHM and them deciding the kids needed her at home? Sarah could be protecting Jen. Sarah might feel she has the stronger personality to handle going to jail. Maybe Sarah feels slightly responsible for not supporting Jen more in the child-rearing and allowing these stresses to build to the point of the beating? Maybe Sarah did the beating, but why would the child lie about who did it when she was the only one of the children to say it happened the way it did and all the others seem to be supplying coached answers (though they seem too young to keep the stories straight).

I think Jen and Sarah 'could' have agreed on what happened at the cliff, but they might not have done. But I don't feel I can ask that question for Jen as she was in the driving seat, the one with best access to the pedals.

people can be very clever as to how they ask for money.

 

[Emb72]

I live in CA and grew veggies year-round. Can't speak for WA state but I bet there are ways.

ETA: In the photo I saw, there were many beds...8 or more? I wish I'd saved that pix so I could review w/o having to search.

~jmo~

I'm in Washington and most areas, unless you have a greenhouse, growing stuff year round does not pan out.

 

[Stunned]

They must feel horrible. What a position to be in. I can't imagine. Heartbreaking.

More victims..

 

[Gooddeeds]

Someone very early on posted what was paid out for adoptions of foster kids. Im sure they got subsidies based on Sarah’s Kohl’s salary for a family size of eight I’m sure they qualified for poverty level assistance. SSI or SSDI if any of the kids had disabilities also.

I remember it being posted as $847 per child but don’t know if it was fact. A little shy of 6K monthly.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

 

[flourish]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

I remember some of my baby teeth still having a stringy thing attached. When they were very loose my dad would actually use the "tooth pliers" to pull them. It was pretty scary.

 

[gitana1]

Sarah has a conviction for misdemeanor domestic assault



Hart children may have been abused before deadly California crash, authorities say

Yeah. She's super lucky. And privileged. Doesn't mean she didn't commit atrocious abuse against her child, causing bruises from sternum to navel:

Even in the unlikely case that it wasn’t, the Hart’s story is a tragic case study in racial disparity. The ways in which Sarah and Jennifer managed to continually evade the notice (or action) of officials is a luxury that is by and large only provided to white parents. All three of the states that the family lived in received reports of child welfare concerns, and yet apparently the children were never removed from the Harts’ care. The disparity in ramifications for suspected—and confirmed—child abuse is particularly striking when compared with the jail time black mothers receive for something like leaving their kids at a food court while they were doing an interview less than 30 feet away. Or for testing positive for marijuana after giving birth. Or for only being able to afford an apartment where your landlord won’t fix a rat problem.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/04/devonte-hart-and-siblings-death-shows-racial-disparity-in-child-abuse-investigations.html

 

[Poppyflower]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

What do they think happened? Do they think it was an accident? Genuinely curious, not fishing or trying to offend.

 

[Hidinginthelimetree]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

Honestly, this was my thought as well. That just looks more like an extraction to me. Teeth often break when they get knocked out from what I have read. And for the love of all things WHY share that graphic photo with the world? Why do that? Comes off as a trophy with the way she explained it to her fans in the caption. She could have at the very least cleaned off the childs blood first.

 

[Lilibet]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

The tooth can still have its root if it’s knocked out. If taken immediately to a dental specialist they can often be reimplanted successfully. My retired teacher husband more than once searched for knocked out teeth on the playground for just this reason. Why this poor child wasn’t taken to a dentist with the tooth is beyond me and more proof of abuse.
JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

On one of the previous pages, someone posted an updated clarification from LE with a link. The initial report of both women being buckled was incorrect and it is now known that neither woman was buckled in the vehicle.

this is not directed at you...

I am just jumping off your post...

I have been trying to visualize the scene of the car and it's inhabitants directly after the crash...

The van was smashed quite dramatically...

therefore anything/body inside the van would have been smashed dramatically as well...

I feel there would be much confusion about the conditions of the bodies...
When looking for specifics....

I wish to give the investigators some slack here for trying to make sense of the damage...

I would imagine any one in their shoes would be hard pressed to make observations one hundred percent....

all... JMO...

 

[spiritseeker31]

Ashleigh Banfield has the sheriff on again this evening.
They are still waiting on news about the cell phone found nearby.
The SUV tumbled several times - most likely hitting the front end first. Sheriff said there's a large V shape in the bumper. A door was torn off and is laying part way down the cliff.
Ummm......I'm trying to remember. He verified again that NO ONE was wearing a seat belt. The SUV was smashed down like an accordion. Sarah was found inside rear between the seats and roof.
I'm gonna rewatch to get more info.

 

[gcharlie]

I've seen SS of Jen talking about Hannah losing her two teeth (very graphic shot of a bloody tooth being held up by presumably Jen's hand - god, who posts that about your own kid?). I've also seen another SS of Jen talking about another later incident involving Hannah, needing stitches to her mouth. Both times it was claimed she fell while running inside the house.

I don't think I can post/link to those because they were SS posted on FB by a friend of the family (who ironically is a defender). But they are Jen's own posts/words, if that makes sense.

(TMI Side note, the picture of the tooth was very graphic, when someone has their teeth accidentally knocked out, would they have the whole long internal bit still attached normally? Because I confess, that it looked more like a plier tooth extraction, but I am not a nurse or doctor, so maybe I'm disturbed by something that's not actually that disturbing.)

Zoriah, I understand you might not be able to post a screenshot, but could you give us an idea of the dates on these posts? It would help to understand how old Hannah was when she lost her teeth.

 

[human]

Supporting Bernie does not make someone a socialist. You can say they attended his rally and wore his shirt, but anything more than that (like saying they were socialists) is speculation. Unless someone has found their voting records they could have been registered Republicans for all we know.

I am a socialist. I like my Medicare and SOCIAL SECURITY.

If they are socialists, that is a bad thing? I am confused

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

IMO I disagree with this based on personal experience. When I worked in retail management for a clothing retailers I was able to move up in positions due to two things, my performance obviously, and my willingness to relocate. Two such promotions I was granted relocation allowances as well.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

but it sounds like you were moving up...
Or had the opportunity to move up...
Within the company...

Does this apply to if a person is switching to another company?

:thinking:

 

[Sleuth99]

On Jen's YouTube there is the one fish hat/undies video of Devonte and in the description it says something like they were all up dancing for hours until 1 AM, but the other kids didn't want video of them shaking their booties in their undies. And a second one titled Avoiding Bedtime with Cat Stevens...also Devonte dancing, presumably in the late night, wee hours of the AM. Dance till you drop?

Ok so what about dancing will make a child run?


IMO

 

[turanna25]

Honestly, this was my thought as well. That just looks more like an extraction to me. Teeth often break when they get knocked out from what I have read. And for the love of all things WHY share that graphic photo with the world? Why do that? Comes off as a trophy with the way she explained it to her fans in the caption. She could have at the very least cleaned off the childs blood first.

When I was 10 or 11, I was hit by a car while on my bicycle and the only thing that happened was that my front tooth broke and was missing half of it. I remember that the root of the tooth was still there and initially when I was brought to the dentist in the following days, they were able to bond it. I haven't seen the SS post on FB but if it appears that the whole root is there.. I would wonder if it was an extraction.. again... I haven't seen it though. so JMO

 

[gitana1]

You cannot simply make that assumption because of earlier speculation. Saying “I’m sure...” because someone else did the math. “I’m sure” is not fact. They may have qualified for assistance but it does not mean they applied for it or received it even if they applied.

Clearly from photos none of the children appear physically disabled. It can take a lot longer for parents to recognize or acknowledge cognitive/social disabilities that may impact a child’s ability to lead an independent life. Parents hope the child may outgrow their “awkwardness” only to realize it is actually a developmental disability. Some parents recognize this sooner than others; sometimes it is more obvious. We’ve read of the Hart children’s behavioral challenges due to early childhood trauma but not certainty that any of the children were deemed disabled yet.

My adopted brother is such a case. He is 35, mildly autistic, smart in a few areas but incapable of living independently - a diagnosis my mother failed to recognize early on or accept until recently - old school hopes her kid was perfect like a lot of parents. It has been overwhelming for her at times. Yet qualifying him for disability has been a 5 year+ struggle and he still hasn’t been approved. They don’t hand it out like candy. You can’t be “sure” just because it fits your narrative of this family and their real struggles, monsters or not.

To be fair, "I'm sure" indicates an opinion. Not fact. And that's allowed. We can make assumptions.

Also, the 16 year old daughter with missing teeth looks prepubescent and thus it is not at all clear form photographs that none of the kids are physically disabled. And the parents themselves went nuts publicizing all the "difficulties" these kids supposedly had when adopted which seem more than enough to qualify them as disabled, whether physically or otherwise.

Yea well that may be the case for an average teenager, but we don't know what was going on there because an article said that neighbors reported that the whole family came looking for her... so they all were up. 路*♀️


IMO

It makes me think they were using peer pressure to get the daughter back home. Either that or they were afraid to leave any of the kids alone while they retrieved Hannah.

I get a seriously, desperately dysfunctional vibe from this family.