CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[katydid23]

Sometimes traffic surveillance cameras can be viewed on-line. Not being savvy with what cameras might on-line in California, maybe someone more aware of what publicly available surveillance cameras might be something a web-sleuther might go through. (?)

The last time I looked for something like this was 2012. I'm sure someone has more recent awareness -- it is an assumption.

We have lots of traffic surveillance cams in Los Angeles area. But I doubt there were any such cams in Mendocino area.

One of the most amazing things about moving there, many years ago, was the realization that there were no traffic lights in the town or near the town. 30 years later I am sure that has changed---a little.

But there is not that much traffic, so no need for traffic cams, unless things have changed radically.

 

[otto]

I wondered about her teaching as well. Someone brought up that perhaps her manager job paid more than teaching. I think her retail job probably paid more than $20,000 a year than a beginning teaching job would.

With her special ed degree, she would have be able to,get a job because many people start in special ed to get in the door and then they switch to their other degree such as elementary ed.

Where I live, until a couple of years ago, a sub teacher got $80 a day. No benefits. And no guarantee of a job each day. A teacher got tenure after three years where I lived in MN. There was no guarantee one would get tenure as you can be let go for any reason in those three years.

I agree with the person who said teaching would not pay enough.

Teaching salary depends very much on State. Since this family was very mobile and willing to move for various reason, they could have gone to a State where teaching salaries pay more than store employee salaries. For example, salaries in Colorado are reasonable, and the real benefit is that the teaching holidays align with the children's holidays. As a family decision, if she could get a teaching job, it would have benefited the family more than getting a store manager job.

 

[emma.laurens]

From the crime online article, as well.

I suspect that the cell phones are mostly significant with respect to the location of the three kids who are still missing. If Devonte, Hannah, and Sierra were left somewhere else, and the adult who left them there had a cell phone on them, the cell pings would have created a trail to where they were left.

My immediate assumption was that all the family's phones were with them in the car when it went over, and so the last "ping" for each of them would have been at the lookout. That one phone was found on the side of the road near that spot is unusual. Still assuming the family's other phones were in the car, it is unlikely that the remaining phones would be found at this point, and (strictly IMO) it stands out to me that LE is talking about the possibility of finding the remaining phones at all.

If, however, there was a cellphone left or dropped somewhere else, and that stopped pinging on the 26th as well, that might be more significant as to locating the missing three than any phones found near the site of the crash.

 

[Sleuth99]

I find it so strange that a teenage girl would flee in terror from two lesbian woman, so something was happening to that girl that was not normal. I don't think inappropriate sexual behavior is out of the question.

I do think the education degree gave people, and perhaps the adoption agencies, the impression that she was a teacher, but a teaching degree does not a teacher make. Anyone can take the degree, but only a percentage of those with degrees can get the job. The rest end up working at places like Kohls because their behavior during the practicums is inappropriate.

Yes, whatever was going on was horrific for her and I'm not ruling out sexual abuse either.

Great points again about the teaching degrees. I think the system reps didn't do their due diligence. It's disgusting


IMO

 

[Sleuth99]

IIRC, the term was “covered in weeds”.

Personally I was imagining those little burrs. You know the ones that are like little Velcro balls (they actually inspired the invention of Velcro). Not sure what they’re called officially, and not sure if the West Coast has them.

Edited to add: The plants are at most waist-high and usually on the periphery of woods.

JMO

Thank you for that... I don't know where I got berries from.


IMO

 

[gcharlie]

Thanks.

Ft Bragg is surrounded by state parks and camp grounds and remote dirt roads and redwoods and beaches. I think the family probably just found a quiet place to park, off the beaten path, and slept in the vehicle.

There are a zillion hiking trails and they could have just let the kids walk and explore the area. Then they could go to various beaches and look for shells and glass....and go see the light house at Point Arena. Time passes quickly when there are things to see.

Low temps that night was just about 40 degrees.

Coming from my own frame of reference, I know that I could not get a good night's sleep in a vehicle. Hard to imagine 6 or 8 people sleeping in one, but that's me. I'm sure it can be done.

 

[bluesneakers]

Thank you for that... I don't know where I got berries from.


IMO

Someone said blackberries - I think it was the neighbors. Blackberry bushes are wild and out of control in the PNW.

 

[Zelda1010]

I suspect that the cell phones are mostly significant with respect to the location of the three kids who are still missing. If Devonte, Hannah, and Sierra were left somewhere else, and the adult who left them there had a cell phone on them, the cell pings would have created a trail to where they were left.

My immediate assumption would be that all the family's phones were with them in the car when it went over, and so the last "ping" for each of them would have been at the lookout. In that case, it would be unlikely that the remaining phones would be found, and it seems (strictly IMO) that LE wouldn't be talking about the possibility of finding the remaining phones.

If there was a cellphone left or dropped somewhere else, though, and that stopped pinging on the 26th as well, that might be more significant as to locating the missing three than any phones found near the site of the crash.

Hmm. Well, if it were that clear cut, they would know when the crash happened, too?

Phone used vs phone ping?

I need to review the travel timeline. I don't think they've released any 26th location info at all.

ETA. http://katu.com/news/local/jennifer...t-bragg-large-search-for-missing-kids-planned

Below is a timeline of events leading up to the crash from CHP investigators:

Family in the Newport, Oregon area around 8:15 a.m. on Saturday, March 24
Travels south along Highway 101 to State Route 1 in Legget, California
SUV continues south on SR-1 until they reach Fort Bragg about 8 p.m. Saturday, March 24
Family stays in the Fort Bragg and Cleone areas until about 9 p.m. Sunday, March 25


If you have any helpful information in the case, or think you may have seen the family in the days leading up to the crash, contact the California Highway Patrol – Ukiah Area office at (707) 467-4000 or the Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office at (707) 463-4086.

 

[human]

I find it so strange that a teenage girl would flee in terror from two lesbian woman, so something was happening to that girl that was not normal. I don't think inappropriate sexual behavior is out of the question.

I do think the education degree gave people, and perhaps the adoption agencies, the impression that she was a teacher, but a teaching degree does not a teacher make. Anyone can take the degree, but only a percentage of those with degrees can get the job. The rest end up working at places like Kohls because their behavior during the practicums is inappropriate.

As a retired teacher, I can tell you if someone is inappropriate during a practicum, they are reported.

Things have changed since I retired as I looked up getting a special ed degree at my university . They have a whole new degree I never heard.

Anywah, I had all kinds of students from the University doing different assignments. The one where the student is on their own is student teaching.

Sarah would have to do several practicums. And if it is like I where I lived, she would have to student teach in two,levels of elementary— upper and lower grades as well as student teaching in special ed.

Being a teacher is different than the student experience because much more goes into teaching than a student teacher gers. One is the relarionship with parents.

And kids love a student teacher. Usually as a teacher we have set the stage for discipline so that is covered. A student teacher does not start at the beginning of school so that will be different in the real world.

But, I think her salary in retail was at least $20,000 more than a beginning teacher. So silly to go for a big paycut as well as having to do do evenings and weekends with schoolwork.

 

[LindsayAnne]

We were not given any psychological tests. But we were given lots of questionnaires, which were pretty detailed and invasive.

And they asked us pretty intense questions during our home interviews. Hypotheticals, like if your child refuses to go to bed, when asked, what do you do in response? When they ask you why they do not look like you, how do you respond? So they were getting into our psyche pretty deeply in that way.


And they interviewed our neighbors, employers and some family members. So they had a pretty good idea of our mental/emotional stability, or lack there of. :wink:

Wow, that’s a bit scary IMO. No psychological evaluations to adopt a HUMAN. But if you want to donate an organ to help a stranger or loved one, you go through a weeks worth of psych evals. *speaking from experience (and working in the medical field I understand why it’s done). I’m just having a hard time understanding why it’s not done to people who are adopting.



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[human]

Teaching salary depends very much on State. Since this family was very mobile and willing to move for various reason, they could have gone to a State where teaching salaries pay more than store employee salaries. For example, salaries in Colorado are reasonable, and the real benefit is that the teaching holidays align with the children's holidays. As a family decision, if she could get a teaching job, it would have benefited the family more than getting a store manager job.

They chose to go to MN for some reason. Alexandria is beautiful. I think her beginning teacher’s salary would be around $30,000 . With the retail in the $50000 amount, it’s a no brainer.

Are there places people can live on a teacher’s begiining salary?

 

[human]

I do not see how they all could sleep in that car. How woud it be possible?

 

[mrtnira]

Low temps that night was just about 40 degrees.
.

If the three missing children/young adults actually escaped but were not properly clothed and not ready to camp in rainy 40 degree weather, exposure would certainly hazard them if they escaped and are hiding. Hypothermia is a factor in sustained low (even non-freezing) temperatures and even more so when people are wet. (Coastal fog, and then the storm that blew in later in the week.)

 

[emma.laurens]

Thank you for that... I don't know where I got berries from.


IMO

The DeKalbs mentioned that Hannah went through blackberry bushes to get to their house, but it actually sounds like the blackberry bushes were in the neighbor's yard. Hannah went to another neighbor's house first, but they were not home. I got the impression that she was caught in the bushes while walking to the DeKalb's from the other house. Unbelievably sad. Especially for someone her size.

 

[Sleuth99]

The DeKalbs mentioned that Hannah went through blackberry bushes to get to their house, but it actually sounds like the blackberry bushes were in the neighbor's yard. Hannah went to another neighbor's house first, but they were not home. I got the impression that she was caught in the bushes while walking to the DeKalb's from the other house. Unbelievably sad. Especially for someone her size.

Ok thanks, wish the other neighbors could come forward. I wonder if Devonte talked to them too. They must have saw something


IMO

 

[TxMother67]

Body Pulled From Surf in Westport is Possibly One of the Three Missing Hart Children

https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2018/apr/7/body-pulled-surf-westport-possibly-one-three-missi/

 

[emma.laurens]

Deleted. Sorry, had inaccurate information in this.

 

[Mira_Eg]

"#BREAKING: Mendocino Sheriff says body pulled from Pacific Ocean in Westport, CA, in 'immediate vicinity' of Hart family crash; was spotted by vacationers. Body appears to be that of African American female." Source:KATU News‏

 

[Mira_Eg]

From Mendocino Sheriff: We've recovered a body that appears to be an African American Female but age and ID could not be determined. Autopsy is scheduled Tues. Cause of death is unknown. MCSO is investigating the possibility this may be 1 of the 2 missing Hart girls. More: Post on FB Page

 

[theirmommy]

Body Pulled From Surf in Westport is Possibly One of the Three Missing Hart Children

https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2018/apr/7/body-pulled-surf-westport-possibly-one-three-missi/

Heartbreaking, but if it is her, at least there is some closure as to what happened to her.


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