CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[NicG0110]

Hi everyone. I'm a long time lurker and this is one of my first posts. Regarding Hannah's front teeth, I think it's possible that her teeth would be more easily dislodged if she was suffering from malnutrition. It seems that withholding food as punishment was witnessed by or told to more than one person over the years. Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. I feel so sorry for those kids they deserved a better life.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I keep thinking about the fact she is six years old. That is tiny.

Who thinks about bringing a child into the bathroom and having her lean over on the tub!

Yep...tiny, AND she was small for her age. Heck, she practically still looked 7 or 8 even in recent pics.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Hi everyone. I'm a long time lurker and this is one of my first posts. Regarding Hannah's front teeth, I think it's possible that her teeth would be more easily dislodged if she was suffering from malnutrition. It seems that withholding food as punishment was witnessed by or told to more than one person over the years. Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. I feel so sorry for those kids they deserved a better life.

That's a really good point.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

My daughter tripped over a step stool and slammed her mouth into the hardwood floor. Her front tooth broke in half on a diagonal.

I don’t understand how a trip and fall over shoes leads to a tugging out of two front teeth. Two different forces in action.

I felt such guilt—I had just walked past the step stool while carrying a basket of laundry and told myself, “You should move that before someone trips over it.” I was going to move it after I returned from the laundry room. My daughter tripped over it before I made it back.

The horror of the trip and fall haunted me—and still does. I still have mouth-injury nightmares, eight years later.

We brought our daughter to the dentist right away. He left the snaggle tooth in place since it was a baby tooth and would fall out on its own, and he didn’t want to induce more trauma on my daughter by extracting it.

When my son’s knee bonked my daughter’s snaggle tooth a few months later, then the dentist had to pull it. (Shield your eyes if you’re weak of stomach.) The amount of tugging it took for the dentist to pull that front baby tooth made this mama pass out.

Jennifer’s “can you believe this child [emoji849]” tooth post with the tooth displayed like a trophy is unsettling.


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[Piglet612]

Not to mention, a quick google search "knocked out permanent tooth" indicates that the root should not be touch and it should be rinsed with saline. Too busy to take a pic to post vs. caring for the tooth!

 

[Amonet]

I've just caught up to the end of the last thread.

The tooth picture caption sounds very passive aggressive to me.

The first thing that's important for Jen to note is that the family has house rules. Everyone has to have constant reminders to be kind? Or does she need those reminders?

Then it's a rough day for daughter and mamas. It can be tough on a parent seeing their child in pain, so I don't have too much of an issue with that being pointed out, but the rough day for daughter is in the secondary position after the house rules...I think that might be a little flag. And we still don't know why it's been a rough day.

Then we go back to the importance of the house rules. Still don't know why these rules are important to note or why it's been a rough day.

Two permanent teeth out! So this is why it's been a rough day. No explanation for how it happened (which suggests to me that the girl actually was running in the house) but after the blood bath is the life lesson gained from breaking the rules. The end.

I would theorize the reason why it sounds like there's deception is that there's very little about the poor crying hurting child in there...apparently that isn't as important to Jen as that the child broke the house rules and now the child's learning a hard lesson in what happens when a child in this house breaks the rules.

But if there was deception about how it happened, then I would expect the story of how it happened to be up front in that picture caption, and not tacked on underneath in the comments as if it's not too important compared to breaking the house rules and learning a hard lesson.

In the video of Devonte with the fish on his head ...did you notice the position of the dog mat? When I saw that I immediately thought "how can you put the dog mat right in the main path between lounge and dining room, especially in a home with six boisterous teens running through the house?"

Maybe the dog dragged his bed into that neat position between the rooms and the bed just hadn't been put back in place?

Or maybe the kids are supposed to know not to run in the house so that we can put dog mats in stupid places?

ETA it was only after someone in the comments asked which child it was that was hurt that we even found out that it was Hannah! So even telling us which child was hurting wasn't very important compared to all those things in the caption about house rules and the hard lesson learned when one breaks the house rules!

 

[Starkville]

Do teeth usually come out whole like that? Shortly after I got my permanent front teeth in, I tripped over a loose brick in the sidewalk at the Eisenhower home. I slammed face first into the brick. Busted lip, nosebleed, and chipped tooth. I'm trying to figure out how you get one whole like that.

Thats what I thought, and mentioned it on another site: it looked like an extraction, not an impact injury.

Quite a few people said that they’d had experience with the whole tooth (root and all) coming out, so I guess it does happen.

Neighbor is a dentist. When I see him I’m going to ask.

 

[CocoChanel]

I've just caught up to the end of the last thread.

The tooth picture caption sounds very passive aggressive to me.

The first thing that's important for Jen to note is that the family has house rules. Everyone has to have constant reminders to be kind? Or does she need those reminders?

Then it's a rough day for daughter and mamas. It can be tough on a parent seeing their child in pain, so I don't have too much of an issue with that being pointed out, but the rough day for daughter is in the secondary position after the house rules...I think that might be a little flag. And we still don't know why it's been a rough day.

Then we go back to the importance of the house rules. Still don't know why these rules are important to note or why it's been a rough day.

Two permanent teeth out! So this is why it's been a rough day. No explanation for how it happened (which suggests to me that the girl actually was running in the house) but after the blood bath is the life lesson gained from breaking the rules. The end.

I would theorize the reason why it sounds like there's deception is that there's very little about the poor crying hurting child in there...apparently that isn't as important to Jen as that the child broke the house rules and now the child's learning a hard lesson in what happens when a child in this house breaks the rules.

But if there was deception about how it happened, then I would expect the story of how it happened to be up front in that picture caption, and not tacked on underneath in the comments as if it's not too important compared to breaking the house rules and learning a hard lesson.

In the video of Devonte with the fish on his head ...did you notice the position of the dog mat? When I saw that I immediately thought "how can you put the dog mat right in the main path between lounge and dining room, especially in a home with six boisterous teens running through the house?"

Maybe the dog dragged his bed into that neat position between the rooms and the bed just hadn't been put back in place?

Or maybe the kids are supposed to know not to run in the house so that we can put dog mats in stupid places?

ETA it was only after someone in the comments asked which child it was that was hurt that we even found out that it was Hannah! So even telling us which child was hurting wasn't very important compared to all those things in the caption about house rules and the hard lesson learned when one breaks the house rules!

Such a great post with many things to ponder. Thank you Amonet!!

 

[Zelda1010]

I have found myself wondering at times if Hannah may have been the "scapegoat". It is not uncommon in families with abuse for one person or child to take the brunt of the abusers malice.

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I'm still catching up, but I am thinking this too. Especially once I saw it reported that the 2008 incident came from Hannah. She, and M too, the two older kids from the first trio adopted. And Hannah is small for her age. She appears to have been small compared to her older sister in every picture. If she fell down the stairs in '08, why tell LE/CPS about her food insecurities as if there is something wrong.

I wonder what Hannah's statement looks like in the 2010 incident. It seems she already had her lip busted incident by then.

I wonder if Devonte and/or the others who downplay the abuse to officials...did they not experience the same treatment so they believed that HH and AH were deserving the punishments or just exaggerating/mistaken?

So, what changes Devonte's mind? Did something happen to Hannah a week before they left for their fatal trip? Did she pass away or nearly from abuse or an "accident" or illness (mental, genetic disorder) so now D knows that impending death will not even stop his monsters?

I don't think that is 8 bananas on the conveyor belt.

Sorry, this is all over the place a bit, lots of thoughts rolling around overnight, back to reading.

 

[pinklilies]

How did Jen say here tooth was knocked out whole line that? We had kids coming in with broken and chipped teeth but I have never seen a child’s adult tooth knocked out of the socket like that in the practices I worked in.

I found the entire tooth story strange too. I'm thinking Hannah may have had some other problem that weakened her teeth in the socket, gum disease or some other gum infection/condition maybe. She would still be young to have that but it must be rare for a whole tooth to fall out from tripping over shoes in a hallway. I just feel that there is some other medical reason for her entire tooth to leave it's socket. She seems very small for her age so maybe it's a possibility.


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[Zelda1010]

Same for me


IMO

It looks like a glitch where the thing is putting your post's text into the reason for editing field when you go to edit. If I were you, in the future, if they don't fix it right away, is cut the text from that field and continue through that screen (with or without your reason for editing) and paste the text into the correct spot if it isn't automatically there already too.

That probably makes very little sense and is a lot of messing around....I hope they fix it. I have had problems with it deleting posts instead of letting me edit when I'm in the "mobile" version. But dang it eats data and battery to be in the full version!

 

[Poppyflower]

Here are my theories from the last thread:

After reading Jenn's facebook post from summer 2017, where she lists all the things that have gone wrong in their lives, I think so much happened in a short amount of time that it could lead to a downward spiral of feeling completely overwhelmed. Which can effect humans most basic needs and that leads to a lot of horrible states of mind (like lack of sleep- sleep deprivation is a form of torture), a spanking going out of control (public humiliation, major guilt, embarrassment from it happening and then more out of control spankings = double those feelings) and a depression that led to severe depression.

Maybe somewhere in the middle of all that stress, then starts the suicidal ideation. Those thoughts build and become more frequent and plans start playing out. The thought becomes more comfortable and comforting. The song about driving into the ocean (that their friend wrote) becomes a symbol and almost a goal. It is familiar and almost sacred and peaceful. I think after thinking about it for awhile now and the peak of CPS coming, neighbors calling, the thought of the kids being taken away (or possible arrests?) was the straw that broke the camel's back. She is already in an altered state of mind due to the years of major stress and trauma. They could have found prescriptions for Jenn that could be the red flags they referred to.

Suicidal people are often the most at peace just prior. I remember the mom in Oregon who stopped and got the sleeping pills and trail mix on her way to commit suicide and if I remember correctly, Leanne Bearden in TX had a power bar in her backpack. Jenn stopped at Safeway because until you actually drive off that cliff, you still need to feed the family.

I think it was the middle of the night and everyone was sleeping when Jenn made her move.

1. Everyone was sleeping so she could get away with it.
2. She could rationalize further in her head that none of them would know what was going on- their lives would just end.
3. No people, parked cars or traffic- or a very reduced amount.

I don't think being belted in or not matters. No one would survive that crash either way.

Unfortunately, I think the 3 kids and any pets who are missing were washed out to sea. I don't think Jenn would have done this without everyone being there.

moo imo

 

[Zelda1010]

Yep...tiny, AND she was small for her age. Heck, she practically still looked 7 or 8 even in recent pics.

Actually, it is Hannah who had a bruise on her arm at age 6 in 2008 and is so small for her age. Abigail had bruising on front and back at 6 years old in 2010.

Abigail appears to always have looked older than Hannah, her biological sister, for some unknown reason or the ages/names are swapped/confused/wrong in the reporting. Jmo.

 

[enelram]

^^^^^^^ Poppyflower, Good Post-

I think the CPS visit was the straw that broke the came's back. One more problem she could not face.

 

[Kas80]

It was the 3 larger/older kids that were found on the rocks- right? Just by weight it would make sense that the other 3 and the dogs would be thrown further and thus go into the ocean. Just thinking out loud... I wanted to think they weren't in the car but too much time has passed now.

 

[SATA]

How did Jen say here tooth was knocked out whole line that? We had kids coming in with broken and chipped teeth but I have never seen a child’s adult tooth knocked out of the socket like that in the practices I worked in.

Interesting.

 

[Zelda1010]

It was the 3 larger/older kids that were found on the rocks- right? Just by weight it would make sense that the other 3 and the dogs would be thrown further and thus go into the ocean. Just thinking out loud... I wanted to think they weren't in the car but too much time has passed now.

Thanks, I wondered that in the first thread when people were talking physics. Not my forte.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thanks, I wondered that in the first thread when people were talking physics. Not my forte.

*If* they were in the car, there are many other factors aside from velocity vector. Where the car hit first, and so forth. There are so many unknowns, it is hard to predict without computer modeling.

 

[SATA]

That is terribly sad. Just so you know, I don't believe in spanking at all. I am passionately against it. But I am very much in the minority among my family and people I grew up with.

I am too!
I grew up in a country where you simply do not spank children - I think from ancient times.
I know it is unusual, but my country is sparsely populated, and everybody needs everybody, so not a good idea to be hitting the people you might have to rely on one day.

I moved to another country when I was a kid, and here there were remnants of hitting/spanking children, I was so shocked!! Had never seen it done.
For me it was like finding myself in the Dark Ages.

There is no good reason to even spank a child, and I know this could spark a long dispute, which I am not going into.
Just felt like sharing.
It works better NOT to spank, show a good example instead and stay calm as far as possible, that is the way to do it.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It was the 3 larger/older kids that were found on the rocks- right? Just by weight it would make sense that the other 3 and the dogs would be thrown further and thus go into the ocean. Just thinking out loud... I wanted to think they weren't in the car but too much time has passed now.

The ones found deceased (on the rocks at the bottom if the cliff) were Markis (oldest and heaviest at age 19), Jeremiah (14), and Abigail (14). The deceased boys were probably the heaviest as Devonte (15) was shorter. If Abigail was heavier than the missing Devonte, Hannah (16), and Sierra (12), that would perfect your theory.