Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[RickshawFan]

Quite true, of course. But many give details that make it clear whether they consider themselves male or female.

I've often been shocked to find I guessed wrong!

 

[drama_farmer]

It would be too early to start planting, but weren't there pictures of seedlings? They would have a jump on their garden planting them instead of starting with seeds. I belong to a community garden where a lot of people use raised beds. As for "We grow our own food" I think it's just something to say instead of "We have a big garden." I have a friend who says she makes her own bread but really she bakes a few loaves a month and buys the rest. It's kind of bragging without exactly being a lie.


As for the Harts considering what they'd need for eight people - like a LOT of beans - it wouldn't be possible on only a few acres. I grew up on a farm and our garden was an acre and it wasn't big enough to get four people through the winter. And yes it was a LOT of work!

Maybe the truth is buried just below the subterfuge, as seems to be the case in many stories about this "family."
Maybe the "kids" grew their own food. . . and that was the ONLY food they were allowed to eat.

 

[gcharlie]

It would be too early to start planting, but weren't there pictures of seedlings? They would have a jump on their garden planting them instead of starting with seeds. I belong to a community garden where a lot of people use raised beds. As for "We grow our own food" I think it's just something to say instead of "We have a big garden." I have a friend who says she makes her own bread but really she bakes a few loaves a month and buys the rest. It's kind of bragging without exactly being a lie.

As for the Harts considering what they'd need for eight people - like a LOT of beans - it wouldn't be possible on only a few acres. I grew up on a farm and our garden was an acre and it wasn't big enough to get four people through the winter. And yes it was a LOT of work!

There were pictures of seedlings in trays started indoors in mid-March. Looks like that part of the country is zone 7 or 8 for planting. Comparable to my zone here in southeast coastal New England, but the March pictures of their yard show them at least 6 weeks ahead in terms of green grass and trees and shrubs starting to leaf.

Rule of thumb here has always been vegetable get planted in the ground Memorial Day weekend. When I started veggies from seed indoors, I would only start tomato and pepper plants in March. Cucumber and squash only need about 6 weeks before they are ready to go in the ground. Herbs could be started any time.

I do think a lot of it was for show and posting pics to their FB page.

Those raised bed frames look like they were built this year- the wood doesn't look weather aged on all but one frame. Given that they moved into the house in May 2017, they may not have planted much of a garden the year before. Or they could have used that cleared area and did not have much success with a plot garden and decided to try raised beds instead for this year.

 

[fridaybaker]

BBM. Now that is "growing your own food."

SORRY. This is a duplicate post and I can't figure out how to "un-duplicate it"!

Such a nice day in this part of the country, which gets less sun and more rain than even Seattle. Yes, Seattle. Too bad that the children weren't out in it, considering that "nice days" are precious and few in Woodland, WA.

And, odd that all windows (except for maybe one on second floor?) are completely shuttered with curtains/shades on this fine day.

 

[fridaybaker]

Such a nice day for this part of the country, which has fewer sunny days and more rain than even Seattle. Yes, Seattle. It's too bad the children weren't out for such a nice day, which are few and far between in Woodland, WA.

Odd, also, that all windows (except maybe one on the second floor?) are covered with shades/drapes.

 

[Starkville]

In my experience (I've worked in the health food industry for a long time), there are farrrrr more unhealthy meat eaters than vegans. Most vegans I know have an understanding of nutrition, nutritional facts and are in tune to what their bodies need to be healthy. I've been vegetarian and on/off vegan for most of my life and eat very well. In fact, too much protein causes me to gain weight. My daughter is a vegan athlete and has tracked her nutrition so she knows what she needs and what she is getting. I wonder how many people have tracked their food intake in https://cronometer.com/ to see what they're getting EVERY DAY. That is my challenge to people when they claim our vegan diet doesn't give us what we need. I've been vegan for awhile now and eat very healthy. Please don't bash vegans and vegetarians. It is NOT the problem here.

Poppyflower, I have a question for a vegan. Maybe you can answer? Would it be usual for vegans to raise chickens or keep pets? I can’t imagine the Harts would use the eggs or meat (if they were vegan), but do you think they might sell the eggs for income? Would that be consistent with vegan philosophy? And what’s the general guideline for having pets? Thanks in advance for any insight you might want to share. And I totally understand if you want to pass on answering. Xoxo

 

[gitana1]

~Does anyone know right offhand where any of the articles or places that had all the comments from the Hart's friends defending them are? I haven't seen any and would like to. Thanks in advance !

Put #defendtheHarts or #protecttheHarts into google.

Also:

“I think Jen and Sarah [Hart] should be idolized,” said Erica Rosser


“Their parenting and their partnership was beautiful,” Rosser said. “These children came from scary, scary home situations [before the adoption]. Not only neglectful but scary – drugs and guns. And to have them turn out this way, everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah. It’s because of their love. You can’t have a happy, smiling, abused child that doesn’t get love. There’s absolutely no abuse.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.statesmanjournal.com/amp/476132002


Records show a trail of child abuse concerns going back to 2008, when the family lived in Minnesota.
And yet, Nusheen Bakhtiar says she still cannot believe that the Hart family home was filled with anything but love and laughter.
"We weren't duped – that love wasn't fake," she said.


Still, Bakhtiar finds it impossible to think that Jennifer or Sarah abused their children – even after learning that Child Protective Services had opened investigations into the family in Minnesota, Oregon, and Washington. Another family friend, Alexandra Argyropoulos, contacted CPS in Oregon in 2013, telling caseworkers there that she believed the children weren't being fed and were being punished inappropriately.
"I want investigators to come out and prove [signs of starvation or abuse] -- they can prove that, right? If a child had years of physical trauma, I want them to come out and say it wasn't true," Bakhtiar said.


As she waits for more information from California investigators, Bakhtiar is struggling to come to terms with the possibility that the crash may have been intentional. Even if that is proven to be the case, she said it doesn't mean the Harts were not great mothers, up to that point.


"They were alone, scared, desperate, in pain. They didn't do it out of malice," Bakhtiar said. "I think they did what they did because there was no other option."
http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

 

[SATA]

Put #defendtheHarts or #protecttheHarts into google.

SNIP


"They were alone, scared, desperate, in pain. They didn't do it out of malice," Bakhtiar said. "I think they did what they did because there was no other option."
http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

That part angers me immensely.
"No other option" than to kill your kids (and possibly your spouse) ?

Oh no, no one has the right to do that, no matter how desperate.

And, "Great mothers" - no they weren´t!

Ms

Bakhtiar​

needs a reality check, I think.

 

[gitana1]

I agree with you 100% on this.

Not sure how big those raised bed frames are, but I'm guessing 4 X 4 and 4 X 6.

My sister has a family of 3 and lives in the Northern Kingdom. Their vegetable garden is at least 70 X 100. They harvest more than 100 lbs of potatoes, 16 lbs of dried beans, quarts and quarts of cabbage that was pickled into sauerkraut and on and on and on.

Hart property is 2.19 acres, but the parcel is cut by the road. Footprint for the house is 72 feet long by 24 feet wide. That garden clearing is maybe 24 X 30. If they wanted a serious garden, they should have planted in the open space closer to the road.

What is the Northern Kingdom!!!

 

[staunchcharacter]

I really don't think them letting people know that "we grown our own food" is in line with what most people do, which is having a little vegetable garden. "We grow our own food", in my mind, bespeaks something substantially more significant. I do what they seemed to do in Woodland, and I'd never consider it "growing my own food". Just my perspective. I think it fits in with all of their posturing and virtue signaling but, again, those are my thoughts on it, that's all.

And: Working (?) on someone else's farm isn't growing one's own food, either, in my book. I can't see most people characterizing it as such. (I'd love to know how they worked. There's something about them that just doesn't look like they know much about farming, which "growing one's own food really is". I'd love to go back in time and ask them about crop rotation, nitrogen fixing, and all the rest.

Well I definitely don't agree that having a vegetable garden or working on a farm is growing your own food but it would fall in line with the image they were looking to put out to tell people they grow their own food which is true if they grow a few things but not true if the person thinks they mean they grow all their food which is probably what they wanted people to think.

Poppyflower, I have a question for a vegan. Maybe you can answer? Would it be usual for vegans to raise chickens or keep pets? I can’t imagine the Harts would use the eggs or meat (if they were vegan), but do you think they might sell the eggs for income? Would that be consistent with vegan philosophy? And what’s the general guideline for having pets? Thanks in advance for any insight you might want to share. And I totally understand if you want to pass on answering. Xoxo

I'm vegan. I want my own small "farm" someday. I don't know a lot about chickens but I would not be comfortable selling their eggs. Maybe donating or giving them away if there isn't a natural need for them to be kept with the chicken. What is your question about other pets? We have the same guidelines as others, I would think. Love and care for your animal. Provide it with shelter, companionship, food, exercise, etc.

I will say again though that I don't believe they were vegan. I believe they were just vegetarian even though both terms have been used. I suppose it is possible they went vegan very recently.

 

[flourish]

What is the Northern Kingdom!!!

I thought northern England but Google says it's a super old school reference to Israel or part of Israel?

 

[gcharlie]

What is the Northern Kingdom!!!

Oops. I should have said the Northeast Kingdom- northeastern Vermont, near the Canadian border.

My bad.

 

[flourish]

Well I was way off!

 

[gitana1]

Oops. I should have said the Northeast Kingdom- northeastern Vermont, near the Canadian border.

My bad.

I've never heard the term before. So cool!

 

[gitana1]

Well I was way off!

Its so cool! I love it. Never heard of it before! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Kingdom

 

[SATA]

I was looking at the website for the Boggs' farm:

"Guess What?!All Meat Buyer's Club members get 30% OFF


all cured meats!"

I guess that may answer the question some had about where Devonte heard the term "cured meats" or where he got the idea of them even though the family was vegetarian.

Good find, that explains Devonte´s wording when asking for food from the DeKalbs.

Not that I would know one way or the other, not being American. I just noticed people were wondering.

 

[janewall]

Great post. I was actually wondering whether the raised beds were just window dressing, and now you've replied to my thought.

Installing raised bed structures would be the easiest way to create the "look" of vegetable gardening without actually having a garden. Besides, the neighbors don't seem to have seen the kids outside much. Vegetable gardens take a lot of work!

On the other hand, if those aerial photos are in early spring, it may be that the raised beds were intended for growing stuff, but they just hadn't been planted yet.

I haven't had my own vegetable garden, but from looking at neighbors', it does seem as though you'd need a lot of room just for basics for an 8-person family. It would be zucchini every night for dinner. For the kids, at least. Maybe enough strawberries for the 2 adults.

In fairness (and why I feel compelled to try to be fair to these 2 posers I really don't know) this would have been their first full gardening season in that house, had they lived to plant, tend and harvest through it. They were busy moving last spring/summer, and likely wouldn't have gotten much if any work done on a new garden aside from digging and raising the beds. The naked beds we see were probably the product of last fall or winter, if not just a few weeks ago, and may or may not reflect food-growing habits they had established in earlier gardens. I'd like to know what the neighbors in MN and OR observed in that regard.

When I kept a garden, our 20'x30' suburban-backyard plot supplied a wide variety of our vegetable needs for the year. Tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, cucumbers and lettuce of course, but also peas, green beans, brussels sprouts, chard, carrots, summer and winter squash (which of course tumbled well outside the established plot), beets, turnips, garlic, ground cherries, a few other experiments, and a separate asparagus bed and a raspberry thicket. That was only for a family of 3, not 8, but I found it valuable to give our suburban kid a sense of where his food came from, and how anyone with access to a dedicated space could produce some of their own food instead of relying on supermarkets and long distance shipping for everything they ate.

 

[SATA]

"The officer found two large dog bowls, two dog beds and two leashes. He said there was no food laid out for the dogs."

I have never had dogs, so I don´t know what is common.
So here is my question:
Two dog leashes left behind.
Is it normal that you have more than one leash per dog?

If Hannah and Devonte had escaped with the dogs, they would have had them on leashes.

If the Hart women had brought the dogs in the car, would they not have brought those leashes.
Or maybe they had extra leashes in the car.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/lo...theres-not-anything-in-disarray/283-533242315
​

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Our family has multiple leashes, so I don't think that would be too uncommon.

 

[janewall]

Gadgie, that's because what your grandparents did was something along the lines of "growing one's own food". There's just nothing in their house or around their yard, in any of their photos, that speak to this. (I think I saw a photo of picking berries once.) (No, picking berries is not "growing your own food"!)

As you said, gardening is extremely time/work intensive. Where are all the photos?

It's also rather difficult to keep a large producing garden while the entire family takes off for weeks at a time to gad about the country touring, protesting, and attending other events. Or even just for "spontaneous weekends".

Especially if you have six family members who you don't allow out in the garden by themselves.