CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr., McStay murders 4 Feb 2010 *Trial Transcripts - NO DISCUSSION*

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**Please note this thread is for transcripts only and is not a discussion thread. Others may also wish to post transcripts of trial testimony here and post a link to it in the trial discussion threads.**

The following transcripts are based on my interpretation and what I could hear and may contain errors.

[x] denotes inaudible.

The video link is posted at the end if anyone wishes to listen while reading the transcript.

Jailhouse Recording

Cathy Jarvis visiting the defendant Charles "Chase" Merritt on Sunday February 3rd 2019

---

Chase: Did you meet with Raj?

Cathy: Not yet, I’m meeting him [x]

Chase: Um, he came, he came and saw me, went over some of the stuff about you, that wanted to know, I wanted him to ask you, maybe you should try and remember, things like that. One of the things is Provecho, the Provecho restaurant in LA you know that big massive waterfall that we did? It was a, it was a trough about…

Cathy: [x]

Chase: We need you to remember it.

Cathy: Oh.

Chase: Because that’s the only way we can get a picture of it to the jury.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: No. Michelle found it finally, um, this is, you’ll, you’ll probably remember this, Provecho was the restaurant in Los Angeles, for our, we did all that, it was like 20 foot long trough, when we picked it up I mean it was just really long and tall and everything, we went and installed it, they were supposed to pay me, they didn’t pay me, they [saw?] payment on Joseph’s credit card you know or they gave him an American Express for the down payment like $32000 and they took it back, after we had already installed all the stainless steel.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: And then because that, the reason we need you to remember that is we now have a picture of it, of the finished waterfall, that I built, and Michelle finally found it online, and beautiful waterfall, I mean it’s the biggest waterfall I ever built, it was huge. That, cos it was like I think it was 18 or 20 feet long…

Cathy: Is that the one that had the water [x] glass or something?

Chase: Exactly and Provecho. [x], do you remember that? Huh?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Ok. You need to, you remember it, because when you get on the stand they’re gonna ask you – ‘do you remember this waterfall? – yes’. And Joseph got stiffed for $32000 and he was doing a lawsuit against them but him and I had decided that if our lawsuit, if he lost or you know if he didn’t get the money back, that him and I would each, we, we would, huh?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Split it. Well I was supposed to, I was supposed to give him back $19000 over a period of time. You remember, you remember I know you gotta remember that!

Cathy: I don’t remember all [x] details but I remember you talking about [x] but I didn’t know anything about [x] credit card [x]

Chase: Um, anyway, now you know, so yes, now you know. When you get on the stand you’re gonna be asked specifically ‘do you rem, do you know about this? – yes’. Um, you know, you don’t have to remember [x] detail, the, the, tell Raj you just need to lead me, and he will. He’s good. Um, do you remember, do you have any clue or any remembrance at all, about how bad the reception was, phone reception, in the clubhouse?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Really bad, huh, ok, that’s going to be an issue, with you, you’re going to be talking about that. Um cos when you called or when I called you, and we’re going to play an excerpt, while you’re on the stand, of you and me talking, because I called you and I said ‘hey um do you remember what I did on the 8th’, I think it was or something like that, one of the days, and you said something ‘was that a Monday?’ you know I mean we had this short discussion, but I lost you, you called back, I called back it was just terrible connection, ‘hello – hello – hello - can you hear me now?’ You know that type of stuff. We’re gonna play that excerpt to prove it’s very bad reception in the clubhouse. And you were at home at the time, and you’re going to be testifying about just that, um that’s very important, because the February 4th call, on February 4th remember they were telling you ‘Chase’s truck was seen in Bonsall, right near Joseph’s’, they said ‘he wasn’t home he was…’, remember that? And ‘you tried to call him 5 times during the evening, he wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be trying to call him if he was home would you? – well, well that’s what you said’. And, but, at that time obviously you were being confronted by two detectives and you’re flustered anyway, um don’t, don’t hesitate to say that on the stand, if that’s the case. Because, I know for a fact, now that I go back over everything, I was home.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: [laugh?] well you gotta testify yeah, you’re going to, and they’re going to try to – ‘that’s not what you said before! You said…’

Cathy: What I said before?

Chase: Well no, what they’re going to say is that ‘you said that he wouldn’t be home and calling you’. ‘Well, I was being jumped upon by two detectives’, tell ‘em, just tell ‘em straight up, ‘I was being, I didn’t know what the hell was going on and I was…’

Cathy: [x] ask me, specifically ask me you wouldn’t be calling him if he was home [x] clubhouse (laughs)

Chase: But well, that’s just it, we have, I [x] my phone records and your phone records, I have them both, and I’ve gone through 9700 phone calls out of which there was about 145 where you and I are both at home calling each other, I mean hitting the same towers. So [x] to show yeah we would be calling each other if we were both at home, because as, if you remember I used to take the kids up to watch a movie I used to go to the, to the uh computer room all the time and do, do , um you used to go to the movie, you used to take the kids to the library, ok, and to the pool, I mean it was just, we were one or the other of us because the kids always wanted to go over there, one or the other of us went over there with them because they couldn’t be there alone.

Cathy: Um I’ve put [x] on the phone, and apparently Taylor put some money on the phone too I don’t know how much.

Chase: Why did you put money on there?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: I didn’t ask you too.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: I didn’t want you to spend your money.

Cathy: [x] pay me back.

Chase: I will, um no I told her to ask Taylor, Taylor has a few, she can probably spare 30-40 bucks, that’s why I asked, you know cos I need phone time, cos I’m down to $2 phone time, and I

Cathy: [x]

Chase: I’ve been using a lot, I’ve been using $40 a week on the phone, because I had to keep in contact with Michelle, and have her running and, phsh, and it’s been…who?

Cathy: [x] stain on the wood? [x]

Chase: Well we may end up having to do, I hate to do it, to Ryan [laughs] but since he works at a wood shop or a wood store we can bring him in as a, as a wood and finish expert.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: We might.

Cathy: But Michelle said that somebody in the family still has that table.

Chase: We can’t, nobody’s, the family’s not going to give it over.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: We can’t, we don’t know who has it, nobody’s going to, that family’s not going to tell us who has it.

Cathy: [x] everything.

Chase: We can’t. They’ll hide it. They’ll trash it. They won’t, they’ll never give that table up. Never.

Cathy: I know, it’s just...

Chase: Wrong.

Cathy: Yeah. [x] get in touch [evidence?]

Chase: Prosecution won’t, doesn’t want it.

Cathy: Of course they don’t – cos it’s not freakin’ on it!

Chase: Right.

Cathy: [x] you know saw a picture of it and didn’t point it out at all, come on.

Chase: No. No. So he’s going to be asking you about Provecho, about the phone, um you know talk to you about the reception, I’m glad you remember the reception was bad, cos every time I was at the, remember when I went to the computer room you could never, you could never reach me, you know.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Yeah, but rare. So that’s important when you get on the stand because you would’ve been calling me half a dozen times trying to reach me and then I, what happened, the way I now visualize that day it happening, now that I look, step back and look at all the events, I came home, I got um [x] probably took the kids over to watch a movie, you got home a little later, I think,

Cathy: I was at work.

Chase: Huh?

Cathy: [working?]

Chase: It was a Friday, Thursday, it was a Thursday, so you would have been at the school, so I probably had one or the other of the kids or I was in the computer room or something, you were trying to reach me, for a time, I came back down to the house, laid my phone on the counter, phone rang and you saw it, obviously, I didn’t, I never remembered that phone call, ever, I still don’t to this day.

Cathy: Who would I [x]? I know we had a discussion about it after.

Chase: I’m sure we did, but I, to this day I still don’t remember it. I don’t remember the call, I don’t remember the discussion.

Cathy: Not even the next day when you discovered that they were missing?

Chase: I don’t remember any of it. I certainly don’t remember that call, all I remember is the 5.48 call. That’s it. So, what they’re, what their main thing is, ‘well look, it’s not on Chase’s bill’. That 8.28 call isn’t on my bill. It’s on Joseph’s bill but not on mine. So I would

Cathy: [x]?

Chase: The DA’s so stupid. Specifically asked, the DA! put the AT&T guy on there, remember? Oh you didn’t see it? He put the AT&T specialist on, not a specialist but to do the records, specifically asked ‘if a phone rings and you don’t answer it and they hang up before it goes to voicemail is it going to be on the recipient’s bill?’ “No”. ‘Will it be on the other bill of the person calling?’ “Yes”. Dumb. The DA did that to himself. And that’s true, that’s what happened, that’s likely what happened, the phone rang, he hung up before it went to voicemail, that’s it.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Well we have 40 minutes.

Cathy: [x] Raj at 8.

Chase: What time is it?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: It’s about 7.20 right now. You can be a few minutes late cos I’m, I’ll call him and say I, that my visit ran late with Chase.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: [x] I just want to, I want to go over some of this stuff with you, real quick. I know but I want to, I need to get…

Cathy: [x] quickly.

Chase: I’m trying. Um the DA’s premise is that I left that evening at 5.48, went into Bonsall and came back, at 9.32 I made a call from they say the 15 freeway going north, but my phone hit two towers near the 60 freeway but definitively show, you know, if, if the towers are correct, I’m going east on Van Buren, not even on the 60.

Cathy: That night?

Chase: Yeah. What would I be doing on Van Buren Boulevard, at 9.32 at night? There’s nothing over there. There’s the 60, Van Buren runs parallel [x].

Cathy: Is that in Riverside?

Chase: It goes to Riverside. At 9.30 at night I wouldn’t be going out there.

Cathy: [x]

Chase: What?

Cathy: Nothing.

Chase: What?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: You were what?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Would you have had my phone?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Would you have taken Van Buren?

Cathy: I don’t know [x].

Chase: But I called you!

Cathy: [x]

Chase: Yeah. Yeah. Never mind, I called you, at 9.32, on your cell. And you were home. You didn’t go anywhere that night. Cos I called you. But I know that I didn’t go anywh…I didn’t go down Van Buren, I had nothing down there to go to. I know that I stayed home, I was just at the, the clubhouse.

Guard enters booth

Chase: Already? I thought you said 40 minutes. Ok say hi to Raj, go over all that stuff. Ok thank you for the money.

Starts at 1.24 in video

 

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Wiretapped Phone Call Chase Merritt to Cathy Jarvis on October 11th 2014 - prior to his arrest, the morning after Cathy's interview with San Bernardino detectives:


(Again, this may contain errors. [x] denotes inaudible. Video is linked at bottom.)


Cathy: Hello.

Chase: Morning.

Cathy: Morning.

Chase: How you doing this morning?

Cathy: Better.

Chase: Good.

Cathy: Are you at work?

Chase: No.

Cathy: What are you doing today?

Chase: Say again?

Cathy: What are you doing today?

Chase: Well I was hoping to come and see the kids [x]

Cathy: Yawns.

Chase: What are you all, what’s your plans?

Cathy: I don’t really have plans. [Jimmy’s?] going to want me to come over, wants me to watch them or something, you know.

Chase: Hm?

Cathy: I’ll have to clean the house.

Chase: I’ll get over there and I can play with them at the park and stuff.

Cathy: And the kids want me to go [see Alexander?] because [x].

Chase: Would you be going alone?

Cathy: [x]

Chase: What time?

Cathy: I don’t know, don’t have anything planned out, [x] soccer game, so sometime after lunch.

Chase: So, yawns, why were you so miserable yesterday?

Cathy: [x] interviewed me for hours.

Chase: [x]

Cathy: Yeah. Making me think I was um, remembering things wrong, um, I was helping you, pretty much telling me that you did the murders and that you know um, I helped you, in some way shape or form, and just bringing evidence in, pictures and things.

Chase: Such as?

Cathy: Such as pictures of your white utility truck, and pictures of the family, pictures of us.

Chase: What did pictures of us have anything to do with it?

Cathy: Pictures of us, pictures of the kids, our kids.

Chase: Well what’s that got to do with anything about Joseph?

Cathy: They’re trying to, they’re saying you know ‘if you don’t tell us everything because of him and the kids’, well you know stuff like that, you know like pictures [x] a picture of my kids, [want them? X] is that? mind games.

Chase: They’re just . Well what kind of questions were they asking you?

Cathy: Sighs, um well what happened the night before Joseph disappeared, and then, and then they brought me phone records and said ‘well that’s not what happened, Chase wasn’t home’, and I was like ‘what? That’s not possible, that’s not what I remember’. And they’re like ‘well here’s the phone records and you’re trying to get hold of him and you know, at the time that you said you saw the phone ring’.

Chase: I was trying to get hold of him?

Cathy: No. I was trying to get a hold of you. They were showing the phone records from the night, well, they have the date of their disappearance on the phone records.

Chase: Mmm.

Cathy: ‘You were trying to get a hold of Chase for several hours, look at the call after call after call, and he’s not answering’, I was like ‘that, that can’t be, that just can’t be because he was home, I remember’, it was crazy, I thought I was going nuts.

Chase: I’m sorry.

Cathy: It’s not your fault. They just kept telling me you had something to do with it, that you’re going to be accused of the murders, and I was just like ‘that’s just not possible, it’s not possible, I know Chase, it’s not possible, he’s got no reason to do that. There’s no reason for him to do that, like one day somebody’s going to come and probably shoot Chase but you know, kill him, but for him to do this to somebody else, laughs, just doesn’t make sense’.

Chase: grunts. What else?

Cathy: What else what?

Chase: What else did they ask you?

Cathy: uh, that’s it, I mean I, I still defended you, I still said that there was just no way, there’s no way that you could have done it, and then they kept saying that there was and that your car was seen, that your truck was seen leaving Joseph’s house on the night they disappeared and, well yeah, we were going back and forth and I was just like ‘am I going crazy, am I remembering things wrong, what the hell is happening?’, and that’s it when they said it, when they couldn’t convince me of getting me to say that it didn’t happen the way I said, because I know, I mean I know it happened and they said ‘maybe it happened on another day?’ and I’m like ‘I suppose it could have happened on another day but I could have sworn it was on a Friday and I could have sworn, you know, this is what happened’ and when they couldn’t get me to change my story I guess that’s when they kind of, I mean it was getting close to the time I had to pick up the kids anyways, and I said you know, ‘I can’t, I don’t know what you want from me, I don’t know if you want me to say that yes’, I don’t know.

Chase: grunts.

Cathy: sighs. I’m .

Chase: hmm?

Cathy: I’m .

Chase: Sorry ‘bout that.

Cathy: Yeah well. If you were a different kind of person probably would have never happened. If you’d have listened to me at some point in time and changed the way you were.

Chase: grunts.

Cathy: But I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if they’re just trying to find evidence to pin this on you, or what.

Chase: Well obviously they’re doing, they’re trying that.

Cathy: Well I don’t know. Look I don’t, I don’t know, I don’t know if this is a made up story for me, you know,

Chase: If it’s what?

Cathy: If, I don’t know if they were telling me like a made up story for my benefit, you know, because I’m involved with you, and you know they’re telling me all these things because it could involve me, and then you know they’re saying you’re gonna, you’re gonna lose everything you have, you’re gonna lose your kids you’re gonna lose this, they’re trying to instil that fear so that you, you say something to cover your butt or you know you say some things that (sighs) infiltrates/implicates? the person they’re looking for, I don’t know, you know, so I don’t know, I don’t know if they’re, they’re seriously um looking at pinning it on you or if they’re just looking to clear you. You know what I mean? they don’t have any evidence against you and they just need for some kind of alibi or some, somebody to go, you know, I don’t know, you know, I don’t know. [x] freakin’ [x] yesterday. I was nuts.

Chase: Yeah, sorry.

Cathy: Sighs.

Chase: They’re spending an awful lot of energy on me.

Cathy: Huh?

Chase: They’re spending an awful lot of energy on me though.

Cathy: Well they’re just trying to find out who did it. And I think they want to cover all their bases, and you don’t know that they’re spending an awful lot of energy on you. It’s just that you made a lot of people angry at you. That’s part of the problem. So if somebody’s going to point fingers they’re going to point them at you because you’ve pissed everybody off at some point in time.

Chase: When did I piss everybody off?

Cathy: Well who haven’t you pissed off?

Chase: Um, I don’t [x] off.

Cathy: Sighs. Think about it.

Chase: Like who?

Cathy: Chase, like everybody! Like everybody I can think that you’ve come into contact with. Customers, business associates, you piss everybody off, because you, you end up walking away, you don’t follow through, you don’t finish, you piss a lot of people off. Sighs. And that’s what I told the detectives, I said that’s what I couldn’t, I couldn’t take that chance with my family because you were, you’re too reckless, you don’t think about the consequences of things and I, I, I thought you were going to piss off the wrong person and they were going to come after you and/or us. I said if anything it would be Chase would be the one that ends up dead. He’s going to piss off the wrong person one day, he’s going to end up dead. But for him to, to take somebody else out that’s just doesn’t make sense. He just doesn’t care that much about anything or anyone…

Chase: Oh thanks.

Cathy: Well, it’s freakin’ the truth.

Chase: No it’s not.

Cathy: You didn’t care enough to keep your family together.

Chase: Sighs.

Cathy: You don’t stop doing the bad things that you do, you don’t think about the repercussions you don’t listen to other people when they’re trying to tell you that you’re not

[juror’s pen runs out!]

Cathy: doing the right thing. I still believe in you, I mean I still care about you, but you, you drove me crazy. [Long silence.] Are you there?

Chase: Yeah.

Cathy: Alright I’ve gotta feed the boy, he’s hungry, he keeps bugging me.

Chase: I’ll see you later today.

Cathy: Huh?

Chase: I’ll see you later today.

Cathy: sighs. Right.


Starts at 7.09 in video

 

[Tortoise]

The following is my transcription of Charles Merritt's interview with detectives on February 17th 2010.

Once again please note this is based on my interpretation of the audio and may contain errors. I've split it into 17 parts for ease of reference and my next post summarizes what is in each part.

[x] denotes inaudible

SF = Detective Suzanne Fiske
TD = Detective Troy DuGal
CM = Charles Merritt
CJ = Catherine Jarvis

YouTube videos for anyone who wishes to listen whilst reading. The first part starts at 43:01. The third video starts at 4:15.

 

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PART 1

Personal info, IDesign

PART 2 – SF (detective Suzanne Fiske) ONLY

CM calls Dave Sequeida, CM’s felony warrant, DNA, Lunch on 4th/going over CM’s notes

PART 3

Felony warrant, Metro Sheet Metal, again going over CM’s notes, Lunch on 4th, Mikey/Summer falling out, QuickBooks Pro, Credit card, CM explains QuickBooks purchase without being asked for reason (Summer)

PART 4

Business profits, Heart attack, Dan’s role, Dan since 4th/emails, Dan’s payoff – part 1, CM’s role in business, CM’s involvement in Joey’s finances, Credit cards

PART 5 – SF ONLY

Credit cards, Joey’s bank, Patrick/Joey’s bank, How they started doing business

PART 6

Phone habits (tendered as proof of friendship), Lunch on the 4th & Mikey, Why they met on 4th, Cheques, Metro not banking cheques

PART 7

Pods, Joey was sick, Soccer/paintball, CM receives call (wrong number), Lunch on 4th, Last phone call (5.47 pm) at desk, Summer/Pizza, Corporal punishment – part 1/CM’s son, Jonah, Heather, Jealousy

PART 8

TD: what does CM think happened to the McStays?, Effects of loss of Joey, Dan/forwarding emails, Hawaii, Dan’s payoff – part 2/Hacker/Joey afraid

PART 9

McStay vehicles, Child car seats, Has CM driven the Trooper?, CM built shed & platform, House move/Pod company, Packing & repacking pods, Summer’s mother, Landlord/eviction, Food & mess

PART 10

After 4th next phone call & visit to house on 9th/10th, Dogs & dog food, Going to Joey’s mum’s house

PART 11

2nd visit to house on 12th?, Water dish, Open window, CM receives call from CJ

PART 12

Meeting Mikey at house, Going through open window, CM receives call from unknown, Who used the downstairs bathroom?

PART 13

CM’s vehicle, CM’s & Joey’s heights & weights, lights at house, bedroom/mattresses, Gianni & Jo. Jr & corporal punishment – part 2, Joey’s Voicemail, Mexico/Viagra

PART 14

Monday 8th, Presidents Day mix up, CM calls CJ x 3 (cuts off x 2 – she’s not at home - CJ tells CM 8th wasn’t Presidents Day), Joey’s parking habits, SF tells CM he talks of Joey in the past tense

PART 15

CM’s injured hand, SF: What does CM think happened to the McStays?, Dislike of Summer, Summer being Columbian, Summer dislikes running tab, CM’s financial problems/medical bills, CM receives call from CJ, drugs/E/freezer/religion/health, CM - drink & drugs, talk to Dan & soccer buddies

PART 16

Back to CM’s notes, Emails from Joey on 3rd, 2nd and 1st, Lunch on 4th, Money for Metro, “Are you ahead or behind right now?”, a returned shipment that Joey organized after lunch?

PART 17

[Incomplete transcription - lots of repetition about warrants and cooperation] Sort out warrant by March 1st, backstory re warrant, cooperation, Buccal swab, story of CM’s heart attack.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 1


TD: February 17th 2010, 16.26 hrs, I’m with detective Suzanne Fiske and we are interviewing…you go by Chase but your name is Charles?

CM: Correct.

TD: Ok we’re going to get all that personal information in just a second. We are in the clubhouse of his condominium complex, is that?

CM: No it’s apartments.

TD: Apartments, of his apartment complex in the Rancho Cucamonga area.

SF: 11660 Church Street.

CM: Apartment 619.

TD: Ok let’s start with your name – Charles?

CM: Charles Ray Merritt.

TD: Date of birth.

CM: 5-2-57

TD: Do you know your driver’s license number?

CM: N3535250

TD: Give me your address again.

CM: I, I don’t know the street address.

SF: When we talked [CM laughing] between 11.54 and 12.18 you told me it was 11660 Church Street No. 619 Rancho Cucamonga 91730.

CM: Correct. You sound almost exactly like your voice, I mean you look almost exactly like your voice.

SF: Oh really, isn’t kind of what you expect [x] [laughter]

TD: What was the zip again?

SF: 91730.

TD: And you’re co-owner or do you work for Joseph?

CM: Neither one. Joseph owns Earth Inspired Products. I own IDesign. Completely different.

TD: So what’s your business? What’s IDesign?

CM: I manufacture custom indoor waterfalls.

TD: Ok, and it’s called IDesign like the letter I?

CM: The letter I...design.

TD: And what do you use for an address – your residence?

CM: Yeah, um, yeah my residence because our shop, what we’re doing now is manufacturing through another manufacturer so or I mean another you know stainless steel shop, I job out everything now instead of…

TD: So you’re middle man?

CM: Pretty much I mean I still do hands on, um I go into the shop and I do all the lighting and they just do all the stainless work and the welding and stuff like that.

TD: Ok. Where is your shop, you said there’s a shop?

CM: Yeah it’s in Azusa.

TD: What’s the address there?

CM: You know, let me call Dave and find out what the address is there, just one minute. I don’t, I don’t remember his address.

TD: Does Joseph ever visit the shop?

CM: He has visited there…

TD: Go ahead and keep calling.

CM: …once I believe. I can ask him right now how many times Joseph has come down.

[TD TAKES A PHONE CALL IN BACKGROUND]

 

[Tortoise]

PART 2

[SF TAKES OVER]


[CM CALL TO DAVE SEQUEIDA:]

Hey Dave, what’s your address there? 525,

SF: 525

CM: Clydebank, C-l-y-d-e

SF: C-l-y-d-e

CM: bank Avenue, um city? is it Rancho, or I mean er Azusa? Yeah the city’s Azusa? USA, 91702.

SF: What’s the phone number?

CM: Er phone number there? 626 812 4455. Yeah I’m, I’m sitting with the detectives right now, so um they’re just getting all the information that they can. Thank you, if I need any other information I’ll give you a call. Thanks bud, bye.

SF: I don’t want these two to scare you, we’re just trying to [x], well we need to explain, I’m gonna explain what we’re doing so you don’t think, I just want to explain [x]

CM: Can you say that again, I’m sorry.

SF: Ok, I wanted first of all to assure you, I want to make this absolutely clear, you are not under arrest, you understand that?

CM: I appreciate it.

SF: And we’re not here to arrest you, because we realise you have a warrant [x], I just want to make sure

CM: I appreciate that. You know what, let me assure you, I decided when I called you back that even if you did make the decision to arrest me, that it was worth getting this done in a timely manner, so I don’t obviously I don’t want to be, but you know

SF: Well I appreciate that, let me just, I want to make it absolutely crystal clear you are not under arrest.

CM: I appreciate it.

SF: You understand that right?

CM: Yes, of course.

SF: Ok and right now what we’re doing I want to explain because we talked about a [x] use that phrase, as we were coming up here we were getting information on Summer’s family and what we’d like to do is start taking some DNA from some of the family members so if we come up with, if we find anything we have that to compare to, we don’t have any of that with us so we just try to get [x] because of that.

CM: DNA?

SF: So if you see somebody in uniform I don’t want you to be…

CM: I, I mean my heart might have skipped a beat and I appreciate you explaining it to me but, like I said, I mean obviously I don’t want to be arrested for that because I’m gonna take care of it tomorrow, but I decided when I called you back, otherwise I would’ve, I would’ve called later on in the afternoon or something and said you know I’m sorry I just can’t get together with you I’ll see you in the morning, that’s what I would have done. But I, my wife and I talked about it, and we decided you know what? this is just too important to put it off, even, even if it screws up my life a little bit, Joseph’s life is, is at stake it’s not like everything, it’s not like it’s, you know, a few days in jail or whatever it is, his life is at stake and that’s a lot more important than my little sh1it.

SF: When I tell someone and you’re right at times we, I always tell people that I do my absolute best to not, if I can be honest to tell the truth I will, I can assure you I’m not going to come all the way to Rancho Cucamonga when I’ve got a missing, whole family missing, to arrest some guy who’s trying to help me find them, I told you what my intention was and I just want to let you know.

CM: I really, trust me, I really appreciate it because I know that you probably even started out [x] and I really do appreciate it. And I will be taking care of that tomorrow, that’s...

SF: We will follow up to make sure that you do this because

CM: I understand.

SF: I have to do that but I believe you

CM: That’s understandable.

[TD STILL ON PHONE]

TD: What’s the name of the complex?

CM: Homecoming, if they’re local they should know where Homecoming is this is the most popular complex around.

[CM INITIATES CONVERSATION]

CM: I wrote down some notes before earlier so that I,

SF: [x]

CM: Well I just wanted, while you were talking to me, I can

SF: [reads from CM’s notes] “Last saw Joseph Thursday around noon…

CM: And that is the 4th

SF: Thursday the 4th

CM: Correct.

SF: “Went over…

CM: I’m sorry I abbreviated it, that’s um Saudi Arabia and Paul Mitchell job. This is one of them, this is the Saudi Arabia

SF: Oh you guys do waterfalls for a company called Saudi Arabia?

CM: No - in Saudi Arabia.

SF: In Saudi Arabia?

CM: Yeah. We’re shipping them to Saudi Arabia.

SF: Oh my gosh. Wow.

CM: And we do all the, all the big water features for the Paul Mitchell studios, all of their offices. So we were going over that and we were going

SF: Where were you guys [x]?

CM: At, er Chick-fil-A.

SF: Ok.

CM: And he bought lunch there,

SF: Which Chick-fil-A?

CM: Six blocks from here.

SF: Were you [near to the] Wendy’s? I mean [x] Starbucks, Wendy’s…

CM: right next, in that complex, yeah.

SF: Complex, ok.

CM: Yeah.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 3


[TD FINISHES CALL AND RE-JOINS INTERVIEW]

SF to TD: Stop answering your phone.

TD: Ok that’s it. [x]

SF: I explained to him what we were doing and I let him know that I was hoping we’d go over it again.

TD: Yeah I need to just for the tape because I’m going to interview you and I want you to know and I’m sure she’s already told you, we are totally aware of your felony warrant,

CM: Ok.

TD: Um, we know that it’s a commercial burglary warrant, our interest in contacting you was this missing persons case, we have a family of four that’s missing, and we need to talk to you, we talked to you on the phone and we said we want to talk to you and you expressed your fear that ‘I’m afraid I don’t want to go to jail’ and the bottom line is you need to take care of your warrants.

CM: I’m doing it tomorrow.

TD: Ok, we’re not, we’re walking out of here and you need to be a good boy and go take care of your warrants, you’re not going to be arrested by us, and so this conversation is as you are a civilian not [protesting?] [x] whatever you want, helping out our missing persons case.

CM: I can tell you just like I told her, I was scared to death and, because as a police officer you have to zero in on, you know, like you have to get this information some day and if you were going to arrest me your job would probably be to lie to me anyway to get me to sit down with you, so I understood that, well you know what I’m talking about, I understood that when I called her back. My wife, and I will tell you what I told her, my wife and I decided that my little, little shiit with this felony warrant is a lot less important than Joseph and his family.

TD: Right.

CM: And that’s why I, I called her back and I said, I gotta, you know, I gotta see you, I can’t, I can’t put this off because if I put it off for a day and then something that I can tell you could have found him and I find out later that it, that extra day screwed it up, then I’ve got to live with it, and I’m, I’m not prepared for that, so, he’s, Joseph, Joseph, Joseph was one of my best friends and you know obviously, and my business associate, and that’s not something I want to live with, so.

TD: Good, well/while we’re on the same page. You got IDesign?

SF: Um, yes I’ll give that to you, it’s right here. 525 Clydebank Avenue

TD: What’s this?

SF: That’s office phone.

CM: I own IDesign, pretty much me entirely, this address is Metro Sheet Metal, that’s the people that I use to do most of my work. Just so you know, um, I mean all the work gets done there, you know, so I can answer your question – yes Joseph has been there a couple of times, to meet with Dave and once to see one of the big waterfalls that was going out just we took pictures and video of it because we take pictures and video before each one ships. So he’s been there twice.

TD: Ok.

SF: So those notes [x].

TD: Oh we talked about this.

CM: Yeah, and that’s why I did it real quick.

TD: Last saw Joseph Thursday around noon, Thursday which date?

CM: Thursday the 4th.

TD: Ok. Went over Saturday…is this Saturday?

CM: No, alright, Saudi Arabia and Paul Mitchell. I abbreviated it because

TD: Oh those are accounts?

CM: That’s two, two projects which we’re in the middle of, we’re in the middle of, we had to go over them and make sure all the specs were right, where the different electricals coming out.

TD: Where did you say you met him?

CM: At Chick-fil-A.

SF: In the same complex we used [x] by the Wendy’s.

TD: Ok (SF laughing)

CM: He met me at Chick-fil-A and he bought lunch there.

TD: Was Mike there?

CM: Mike.

TD: His brother.

CM: No. The only time I met Mike is, um, at the wedding and very briefly at Gianni’s I think it was Gianni’s birthday party, and that was really brief because Summer and him kind of clashed and Summer was, or I mean Joseph’s mum and Mikey left fairly early in that birthday party because they were, uh Summer is, Summer tends to have a, she’s very verbal and uh

SF: No kidding, you’re not the first person who’s talked to us.

CM: Ok and Mikey is also verbal. She said something about Mikey’s wife I think, and you know, so that, me meeting him there was even brief, I talked to him more in the last week than I’ve ever talked to him, I mean,

SF: So Summer said something about Mike’s wife?

CM: Yeah, Mikey, Mikey’s, well you’ve met Mikey, he’s very, very excitable, that’s the way I

SF: How do you know I’ve met Mikey?

CM: Well I’m, well I’m sure that you’re inter… you’re interviewing everybody, yeah Mikey’s extremely excitable, extremely, um Joseph talks about him, talks about him all the time, about the fact that him and Summer couldn’t get along, um and I think the first time Mikey met Summer he called her, starts with an S too, Joseph’s ex-wife, called her by Joseph’s ex-wife’s

TD: Heather.

CM: Heather, Summer, well it sounded like it anyway,

TD: I’ve heard this story.

CM: Ok, and

SF: I think Mike told you that.

TD: Mike told us.

CM: Yeah, ok, so that made my meeting Mike very brief because it was at that birthday party I think that that happened and they, they clashed, mum and Summer, Joseph’s mum and Summer clashed and they left. So I didn’t really get, I didn’t have any conversations with him since then, that’s about it, at the wedding and at the birthday party, and I think it was Gianni’s birthday party but I’m not, it may have been J’s, I don’t know.

TD: Let’s finish THIS thing [refers to CM’s notes again]. Payments to Metro, cheques, then went over [when to bring?]

CM: Went direct to [Jack’s?] [timestamp 1.00.21]

TD: Ok.

CM: And then talked about QuickBooks…

TD: QuickBooks Online, decided to delete and start QuickBooks Pro 2010, credit card for purchasing QuickBooks,

CM: He gave me the credit card number.

TD: What’s the, do you know his credit card number?

CM: I, you know, I did the QuickBooks Pro, and I threw the credit card, that’s all I needed it for.

TD: He just wrote it down?

CM: Yeah he just wrote it down so, you’ll see on one of his, whatever credit card cos I don’t even remember which one it was, I think it was, I don’t think it was Visa, I think it was

TD: [x] a bank?

CM: I have no idea. No, he

TD: When did you do that?

CM: Puffs and blows,

TD: Was it prior to February 4th?

CM: No, no, no it was 2, 3 or 4 days after February 4th that I actually bought the QuickBooks. Joseph and I sat down and talked about the QuickBooks because Summer um Summer didn’t know how much money Joseph actually made, she never did um and one of, one of Summer’s biggest problems is credit cards I mean she, she was, she spent a lot of money um, she goes to Ross all the time, things like that, so it was, it’s a big thing, it was, it had become a big thing um, with Joseph not letting her know exactly how much money he was making because when she…

 

[Tortoise]

PART 4


TD: How much money does he make, do you know?

CM: No I know by what we do, he does very well with the custom, I don’t know what he does with production waterfalls, I have no idea, because I don’t do many production waterfalls,

TD: What do you know he makes?

CM: Um I’ll show you. I’ll make that easy. This is, I do virtually all of Joseph’s custom waterfalls, so there’s a few of them that I don’t do, but it’s, it’s pretty rare. This is Joseph’s and my, sorry for it being so small that’s the way it printed, this, this is our um running tab, of all of our entire business since the beginning of last year, ok, so at the bottom of these, [times?] total 2,297 thousand, um, so 156, about $150,000 between him and I, in

TD: Profit?

CM: No I would say probably over 100,000 of that is profit, more than likely. He buys pumps, um some lights and things like that, he does the shipping, which costs you know it’s a waterfall, between $200-$600, per waterfall, so um, anyway,

TD: So you told me that 100,000 was profit and after that, split between you guys or?

CM: Oh no no no no no that was all him.

TD: That’s his money.

CM: Yeah. I made 65%. If Joseph sells a waterfall for $10,000 he pays me $6,500 he keeps $3,500, he makes $3,500 on every, he makes 35% pretty much across the board. Um that’s just, that’s the way the math comes out, and so

TD: And that’s because he’s the owner of the business, has the website and makes all the contacts for sales.

CM: Contacts for sales and he does all the shipping. So that 35% is, it’s a pretty big number when you’re doing

TD: Because that’s pure profit, 65% is on you and

CM: Yeah, I got a lot of, yeah I often manufacture the waterfall, I buy all the stainless and the glass

TD: So the less your cost the more your profit. Basically.

CM: Say that again.

TD: Well if you have a fixed fee of 65% whatever your manufacturing cost, the residual is your profit.

CM: Yeah, well basically if, if, if I make let’s say I make $6,500 on a $10,000 waterfall, it’ll generally cost me as a matter of fact I just did a bid on one,

TD: You don’t have to show me the details.

CM: No I just did a bid on this one right here, this one, this is two waterfalls at 9,500-10,000 ok, it’s going to cost me $2,500-2,750 per waterfall to just the basics, to buy, yeah, yeah just the basics, and then I have to pay to have it produced, so by the time it [x] down a $10,000 waterfall gives me, makes me $1,500-1,800, so which is still good for me, because now I don’t do a whole lot of hands on, stuff, I was doing everything I was building every waterfall all myself, and I was dying, you know, that’s what gave me a heart attack, actually, it was, because we got really busy last year, and we were just…

TD: What’s Dan’s role?

CM: Dan is the web guy. He actually, to the best of my knowledge, he owns part of EIP, Joseph was buying him off, um him and Joseph had a, had a, they weren’t real happy or Joseph wasn’t real happy um having paid him so much um

TD: Do you know what he paid?

CM: No clue. I have no clue. Um Joseph didn’t tell me a whole lot about…

TD: And you and Jo and Dan all lived in the same apartment at one time at the beach?

CM: Oh no I’ve never met Dan.

TD: Oh you’ve never met..

CM: No. I’ve never met Dan I, the only time I’ve, the first time I talked to Dan was a week ago or a little less, or when all of this started, Dan called ME and said hey dude what are we going to do, I said, (chuckles) I don’t know, I don’t have any access to you know Joseph’s emails, I don’t have any access to any of his, I can’t help him and so Dan said well I can send you any pertinent emails – if you can, if you can follow up with them, you know, any complaints, any problems with customers, can you try to deal with them so that when Joseph comes back you know, at least we’ve made an effort to you know get this stuff taken care of.

TD: What date was that do you remember?

CM: ……………Ah God, you know all of this is kind of blending in together, um, this is a guess but I think it was somewhere…..9th, or 10th maybe 11th, something, something like that. I’m not sure.

SF: So on the 9th, 10th or 11th Dan called you?

CM: Haahh, or did I call him, yeah I think he called me.

SF: Ok. Or did you call him?

CM: I don’t remember calling him, and I wouldn’t have had his number I don’t think. You know it’s possible that I got his number from, from Joseph’s mum but I don’t think, I don’t think she would have had it, so he probably called me. Um it’s more than likely he called me. It’s kind of a, I’m not positive. We made, we ended up making contact because Dan was concerned and wanted to know…

TD: Sure, it’s your three’s business.

CM: Yeah I mean

TD: [x] [roles…business]

CM: Yeah and

TD: Who else works in that business, anybody, or is it just you three?

CM: Well Joseph owns EIP, Dan runs the website, he owns, Dan I believe owns the website, Joseph was buying the website from him and I know for a fact that Joseph only owed him two more thousand dollars, and it was paid off. And then he was only going to be paying him to run the website instead of paying him a percentage of sales, ok. That’s the extent that I know about Dan, um the, as far as my role, I met Joseph, he actually contacted ME to start building custom waterfalls 2 ½ 3 years ago and I started building his custom waterfalls and I’m still doing that now, today. So I don’t have really anything to do with EIP, I have my own, I manufacture waterfalls, you know, I was, I had my own line of waterfalls, my own everything, Joseph got me more deeply into the custom ones, he does all the sales, basically I mean yeah we’re partners in getting waterfalls done and you know we make money but um he owns EIP I own IDesign, and he buys the waterfalls from me, pays me for them, and you know, that’s, that’s pretty much the extent, um. I do a lot of Joseph’s um you know, a lot of his finances and stuff, because mo…, I probably make 75% of his income, you know, and we were, we were working so damn close together I mean he would, I would buy lights and pumps and things like that with his credit cards and um I would I mean just you know, we were, we were just kind of co-mingling the businesses because you know, as a matter of fact just …

TD: Do you have any of his credit cards here?

CM: I do not.

TD: Or do you have access to them?

CM: Oh God no, no.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 5


SF: Do you know what banks he has credit cards with?

[TD TAKES A PHONE CALL]


CM: You know I really don’t, I mean when I bought him lights and stuff when he said yeah get stuff ordered he’d write his credit card number down, and then you know

SF: Do you have those records of it anymore?

CM: I don’t because once, he always, I know, I know this, he always used different, he ee e,

TD [on phone asks CM]: Is there a separate complex?

CM: Yes, well no, no, no, no, this is right at the front,

TD: Well this is right at the front.

CM: Yeah, there’s no other.

[TD DISAPPEARS ON CALL]

SF to TD: You’ll be right back? I’ll just go over whatever we talked about.

SF to CM: Let me finish this [while he’s not around]. So he would give you credit cards – did he use different banks?

CM: Well he, Joseph had like, I don’t know, I, I would guess he had 10 credit cards, and he used, back, you know different ones for different things like he had his PayPal he used for some things, um he had a Visa that he used for some things, he banked at Union Bank,

SF: Union Bank Visa? You don’t know you just know that he had a Union Bank account?

CM: Well I know he has a Union Bank account there’s no question, no question about that. Because all of his cheques to me were from Union Bank, so yeah.

SF: So you’re definite about his chequing account you’re not sure about the credit card?

CM: I don’t know about credit card, I don’t know where his credit cards came from.

SF: Any other banks you can remember that he used?

CM: He used to bank with… Wells Fargo I think, he switched to Union Bank I think when he split with his dad. Because he had a bunch of accounts with his dad, they were kind of together with his business again because Joseph didn’t have any credit,

SF: Why didn’t he have any credit?

CM: He just like seven years ago when he started this business, or I don’t even think it was that long, um he just didn’t, he didn’t have the credit or you know to get like a PayPal account and you know, to get this stuff a merchant account and stuff like that, and his dad and him, or he went to his dad to put it together and then after a while Joseph’s credit got better and better and better and he eliminated his dad on everything

SF: When did he eliminate his dad on everything?

CM: You know it wasn’t that long ago, I would guess a year, um that’s my guess but I’m not sure because he was talking about it, cos matter of fact he was just talking about his dad calling him about somebody looking to take money from him on Earth Inspired,

SF: Somebody was looking to take money from Joseph?

CM: Joseph’s dad, and Joseph’s dad called Joseph

SF: Someone called Joseph and said your dad…?

CM: No. No Joseph’s dad called him,

SF: Joseph’s dad call Joseph.

CM: Cos I was sitting there I know that, because Joseph talked to me about it afterward, Joseph’s dad called him and said that he had, there was some kind of bad debt, I don’t know what it was he didn’t go into that, and that they’re, they’re taking him to court

SF: The dad has a bad debt?

CM: Right.

SF: The dad.

CM: And he’s going to court and they were going to be putting a lien on his accounts and he was pretty sure of it and so he called Joseph because he was afraid that his name was still on some of the IDes…uh Earth Inspired Products accounts, and he was afraid that they would, because from what I gather Joseph’s dad doesn’t have any money so they can’t you know, you can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip, but he, his dad was afraid that they would um try to get money from his accounts, from Joseph’s accounts, because at one time they were both on the accounts and he was a signer and everything,

SF: So how recent do you think that that all went down?

CM: Well that happen…that was just, 3 or 4 weeks ago that Joseph talked to his dad about that,

SF: Ok

CM: But I think Joseph and his dad separated their business, their business part I think it was about a year, a year and a half ago, maybe, I remember, I remember him talking about it but you know it wasn’t really much of my business so I

SF: So you’ve done business with Joseph for about two and a half to three years?

CM: Yes.

SF: Did you know him before you did business together?

CM: No.

SF: And you met when he called you or? Was it here or?

CM: Yeah um he actually, yeah he called, he called us, and wanted some, he, we were manufacturing the production, we were manufacturing the production waterfall that he was interested in, and then he had a big V-shaped waterfall that he couldn’t find anybody else to do and he heard that I had been pretty good at the custom work and coming up with ways of making things up and so he ended up calling me, the summer before I thought it was, but he called me and from that day on I started doing a lot of his custom work and we just went from there.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 6

SF: And in the last 2 ½ to 3 years I mean obviously you had a business relationship were you also friends or was it…

[TD IS BACK]

CM: Very good friends, um I think I told you, up until the 4th, and you can probably even check my, mine and his phone, up until the 4th I don’t think that, I can’t remember a day, I mean I’m sure there has been days that I haven’t talked to him, but I can’t remember a day that I haven’t talked to him almost every day, almost every day 10-15 times, almost every single day, for the last at least two years, I mean he’s, Joseph talks a lot and I mean we were on the phone, I mean I had thousands of minutes every month, I had to change my phone plan because of, because I talked to him so much, so uh,

TD: And February 4th was the last time you talked?

CM: Absolute the last time I talked to him, the last time I talked to him was, was on that, the last time I talked to him he left here, went home,

TD: Chick-fil-A

SF: And what time was that?

CM: You know I, I can’t remember the exact time but it was middle afternoon.

SF: Did you eat lunch or?

CM: Yeah.

SF: You both ate lunch?

CM: Yeah, he bought lunch there,

SF: Ok.

CM: Um, I think we got, he got there sometime just after noon, ok, he emailed me from home, I got the email that he emailed me from home I think at ten thirty something,

SF: On that night?

CM: No. That after er that morning.

SF: Ok

TD: Did he say whether he had talked to Michael at Chick-fil-A?

CM: No, he didn’t…no… um, as far as I know the only person that Joseph saw Thursday at Chick-fil-A, well I know for a fact the only person he saw at Chick-fil-A is me, there was, there was nobody else.

TD: No one else was there?

SF: Did Michael say he had lunch with him at Chick-fil-A?

TD: Yeah.

SF: On Thursday?

TD: Yeah.

SF: At what time?

TD: Lunch.

SF: Maybe it was before that then. Did he eat with you?

CM: No.

SF: Were you, ok help me out, when you arrived was he there?

CM: No. No,

SF: Did you get there first?

CM: This is down in Rancho Cucamonga.

SF: Correct. When you, who left there first? you were there…

CM: Errrrrr, me.

SF: You got there first?

CM: Yeah. Cos he, he called me and said um ‘what do you want to eat?’ ‘n I said I like Chick-fil-A and just like that he told me where the Starbucks was, told him where it was and I, I got there, I went over and got a Starbucks coffee and then went to Chick-fil-A.

SF: Ok.

CM: Ten minutes later, he, Joseph got there. Mike, there’s, there’s no way Michael or Mikey had lunch with Joseph on, I know that it was the 4th it was Thursday.

TD: Why did Jo, why did Joseph come out there?

CM: To go over, um, Paul Mitchell, Saudi Arabia,

TD: That’s what you put here.

CM: Right, Paul Mitchell

TD: Saudi Arabia and Paul Mitchell, Metro

CM: And the payments to Metro and the payments to me, there was, we just had to go over all kinds of money stuff and matter of fact this is

TD: Why did you need to meet face to face with him? Was it physical cheques or?

CM: Yeah they were physical cheques that I was giving to, matter of fact, um, Dave the guy I just called he is, he is very concerned now because we gave him the cheques back on the 4th or 5th and he was having a problem with his chequing account,

SF: Who was?

CM: Dave.

SF: What’s Dave’s last name?

CM: I don’ know.

SF: Ok.

CM: I just know him as Dave, sorry.

SF: That’s ok.

CM: He owns Metro Sheet Metal, so that’s...

SF: And where’s Metro, is that in Azusa?

CM: That’s in Azusa

TD: [x] is something…?

SF: Well I want to find out if his chequing, cheques involved in this, I’m thinking that he called you if they haven’t gone through that’s important…

CM: No they hadn’t gone through, because he didn’t deposit them.

SF: Show me his deposit.

CM: Dave didn’t deposit, no. Joseph was paying Dave,

SF: Oh, ok,

CM: Yeah there was a $1600

TD: That’s why I was wondering…

SF: I thought, I thought, ok,

CM: No, he just voiced concern to me today cos I was shocked

TD: Cos he has cheques from Joseph…

CM: He has cheques and I, he goes…

SF: That are legitimate?

CM: Yeah, and he goes Oh my god what do I do with these cheques and I said scuse me dude? What are you talking about? And he, he said the cheques that we got you know there was a 1600 and something $ cheque and a $250 cheque and I said you’ve had those like you know the 4th or 5th and he goes oh I haven’t deposited them, he had a stack, a bunch of, a bunch of cheques that he hadn’t deposited because he was having a problem with his credit card whatever his account he was having a problem with it, he goes what do I do now? And I said (laughs) I don’t know, I said I’ll have to talk to, when I talk to Joseph’s mum I’ll have to find out if it’s ok for you to deposit those because it… was my opinion that more than likely they’re gonna put a freeze on, on all of his assets I said you’re not gonna be able to cash those now so I said just hold on to em until I talk to Joseph’s mum, and you guys. So

TD: What was the value of the cheques?

CM: 1600 and something and 250.

TD: And what were they for?

CM: They were for crating, installation of some electrical and lights, um plumbing…

End of video 1.


Start of video 2.

CM: …uh a light bar on one of the waterfalls,

TD: This is one of the guys that helps

CM: This the guy that manufactures

SF: This is the address that he gave us he called this Dave guy to get the address, Metro, Clydebank

CM: Yes, right, so anyway that’s why I met Joseph to get back to where we were and that’s what I met Joseph there for, is to get those cheques, get cheques for me, figure out um how, what we were going to do, when the money was going to be coming in from Paul Mitchell, then the money you know when like cheques are going to clear, when, when, his, his money is going to be available for me to get money, and stuff like that, and to figure out where the electrical boxes and stuff goes, because um Joseph and I sit down often, because I mean we’re talking projects that are pretty expensive, um the Paul Mitchell one is a 24 foot long by 10 foot tall, I mean as big as that wall there, a water wall, and so there’s just enormous amount of stuff and Joseph doesn’t manufacture waterfalls, he makes drawings and stuff but he doesn’t know how to build them, he doesn’t know how to, to put them down on paper so that somebody who is building them which is Metro, can actually make it happen and so we, we get together all the time and go over all of the pictures and all of…

TD: How often did Joseph come up here?

CM: Um once… once or twice a month. Um I went up there more than he came down here.

TD: To Fallbrook?

CM: To Fallbrook.

TD: To his house?

CM: His house yeah.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 7


TD: How long has he been in that house?

CM: 4 months? Something like that. 3 or 4 months, not too long. Um I moved his, from his house in um San Clemente, I’m, I’m the one that actually moved all of his stuff into the big storage units that he, the pods, I moved everything in his house into there because he’s, he was sick, he had pretty serious ear problems, he, he couldn’t stand up without getting dizzy, I mean he was having some pretty serious problems.

SF: Joseph was?

CM: Yeah.

SF: Vertigo?

CM: Vertigo, and he, he, he was getting sick to his stomach if he was on his feet for very long um he

SF: Do you know what he was diagnosed with?

CM: He was going to the doctor like all the time I mean he was going back and forth to the doctor. His mother should, I’m almost positive his mother, his mother knows the…

SF: Did he tell you what was wrong?

CM: He was just very sick.

SF: How long was that?

CM: Since before he moved from San Clemente, so at least a couple of months before he moved from San Clemente, um he, he was always, he was laying in bed most of the time, every time I went to San Clemente to see him he was laying in his bed with his laptop, he wasn’t even getting out of bed, so, but then off and on he would feel great, and he would go play soccer, you know, so.

TD: [x] play soccer?

CM: Yeah. He hadn’t, I don’t think he surfed much lately but he’s played over the last month before the 4th I know that he went and played at least twice, I know for a fact, because I think the weekend before the 4th I’m positive the weekend before the 4th um I’m pretty sure he went, cos we were going to go play paintball and uh paintball pretty much kills him, because you’d think soccer would be worse but paintball is pretty tough, you gotta, you have to squat down a lot, and if he plays paintball he can’t, he can’t walk the next day, because his legs hurt him so bad and stuff. So he decided he was going to play soccer instead,

SF: Did he play soccer after the 4th?

CM: After the 4th? I don’t think we, you know, I haven’t talked to him since the 4th, so I don’t know [x]

[CM’s PHONE RINGS]

CM: Excuse me. Hello. Chase. Yeah, my name’s Chase, um would it be regarding a water feature? A waterfall? Ok, it must be the wrong number sorry, alright.

TD: Going back to your, so we can resolve this matter real quick, so you were at Chick-fil-A till about 2 or 3, so you were there…

CM: We were there a couple of hours, hour and a half, two hours yeah

TD: And was that normal?

CM: Oh yeah. I mean we, with Joseph that’s very short amount of time, he…

TD: Did he usually meet you at Chick-fil-A or did he usually come to your house or here?

CM: We met at Chick-fil-A, my house, um, where, sometimes we met halfway, you know we’d, we’d…

TD: Was his wife with him?

CM: No.

TD: And did he call up on his way home to kill time [x] a problem?

CM: Yeah, no…he, I’m almost positive now I’m, I’m trying to remember I was trying to remember earlier when I wrote that down, I’m almost positive that he paid for Chick-fil-A with his credit card or ATM or whatever, so you’d probably be able to look that up. He, he, cos he bought lunch you know, he always bought lunch [AVOIDS THE QUESTION]

TD: And he ate…

CM: and he ate, yeah, he got food for both of us, so…

SF: So when’s the last time you actually, I knew you had seen him on the 4th but [CM CUTS HER OFF]

CM: The last time I talked to him he was sitting at his desk at home because I needed to talk to, there was, he, after we went over this stuff there was still a question on…the……um…… through box for the electrical, on one of the waterfalls, but he had it at home, he had to, to, the drawings at home, so…when he got there he called me, and we went over that fairly quickly and, but he was sitting, I know that he was sitting at his desk at home and I could hear the kids in the background, just like always they were always screaming, but uh that, that was the last time I talked to him, is probably…if I were to guess 5ish, 5 maybe 5.30ish, I don’t know.

TD: And he never said anything about going anywhere, any stressful situations?

CM: I talked to him at least twice on his way home, so, and he was just going home, he may have been stopping to get food or something like, I don’t remember, but he was just going home, so…Joseph’s mother was, he…

TD: What did he say about his wife? [Does] he love her?

CM: Oh yeah, yeah. He definitely loved her. Um, he….she’s a pain in the butt, um and he was pussy-whipped,

TD: Any domestic violence, did you ever observe?

CM: Never, Joseph was, no, no way, um…

SF: What about her towards him?

CM: She was verbal, but um I don’t know, she’s always verbal, but I was, I was there a couple of months ago and we were, we’d gotten pizza, and uh sitting down eating pizza and I had, I know we had pizza cos I had like mushroom and onion and they like other stuff, and I opened the box and grabbed a piece of pizza, you know ts’just a box of pizza, you know it’s pizza when you get it you’re going to eat it, she went off on me! Because I was teaching her kids bad habits and you know that isn’t the way you eat food, you’re not gonna eat that way in front of my children, and I’m like

TD: What did she want you to do?

CM: To get a plate and use a fork, so I got a plate and used a fork

TD: Did Joseph say anything about it?

CM: Oh, yeah, and that same night she was um, we were talking about corporal punishment, uh I don’t remember how the subject came up but, you saw my little guy, and I told her, I was telling actually I wasn’t even telling her I was telling Joseph, I said yeah I had to finally have a session with him, because he’s just, he’s really hard-headed, you know, he’s, he’s the best little boy in the world but sometimes he gets very stubborn, I had asked him to say he was sorry to his sister, and he wouldn’t do it, so I paddled his butt, set him down, talked to him, told him I loved him, anyway long story short it ended up being like a 2 hour session with him, having to spank his butt every 5 minutes or so, [laughter] and set him back down and say, you have to do this, it’s not like, I’m not, and we’re going to sit here until you do, finally, she, and I told Joseph about this session and the fact that since then he does what I ask, you know, he, you, sometimes you have to be firm, she went off on me and told me that I broke his spirit and that, you know, I don’t even, she just went off! What kind of father are you? and corporal punishment is not something you should ever do, and I’m like well I just smacked his butt with my open hand I knew it didn’t hurt, you know it’s like oh you can’t do, you can’t be doing that, and you know, she, I mean she went off for like 5 minutes, you know just like, so yeah, she’s very verbal, extremely verbal, but I don’t think she’s physical.

TD: Do you know about Joseph’s other son?

CM: Jonah. Yeah, yeah, I’ve met him several times, well, a few times.

TD: Does Joseph pick him up often?

CM: Not lately, that I know of.

TD: Do you know why?

CM: Um, Joseph said that he’s getting to the age now where he’s kind of being more independent.

TD: How old is he, like 12 or 13?

CM: 13.

TD: 13.

CM: Yeah, that’s what Joseph said, so I’m you know my assumption would be Jonah’s getting to the age where he doesn’t you know, he’s looking at girls now and, or you know different things and going into high school stuff and you know,

TD: But you haven’t seen Jonah around lately?

CM: No, Jonah has not been around that much if any lately, that I know of, and…

TD: What does Summer say about Jonah?

CM: From everything that I’ve ever seen she liked him, she loved him to death I mean she would whenever he was there, that you are always you know

TD: What was Summer’s relationship with Heather? The ex-wife?

CM: Don’t think there is one, but, I don’t think there’s one at all

TD: What about Joseph and his ex-wife?

CM: I don’t know. Joseph does not talk about Heather at all so, and because of that I would venture to say that he probably doesn’t have any kind of relationship with her except for Jonah, because if he had anything to do with, with uh his ex he didn’t, [involve me], I probably would know. He would have talked to me about it. Cos Joseph and I we talked sometimes an hour or two you know, I mean we just, cos Joseph never stops talking. Once you get him on the phone you actually have to physically sometimes just hang up and say oops sorry, you know, he talks and talks and talks and talks, so I don’t think…

TD: Is Summer a jealous person?

CM: [no answer]

TD: Or is Joseph a jealous person?

CM: Joseph’s not. Joseph’s not. Summer…again I never saw any kind of jealousy in anything, as far as jealousy, but again if I were to guess she’s a, it’s, it’s in her personality.

TD: laughs

CM: So, I mean, that’s just my, I would, something I would have assumed it’s not something that…

 

[Tortoise]

PART 8


TD: What do you think happened to this family, do you have any...

CM: No.

TD: idea? [x] around at least every hour, what could have possibly happened, you must have been doing the same thing.

CM: We have, well my, my wife and I have been talking about it over and over and over again, I talked to Joseph’s mum about it, over and over, to Mikey about it, to Dan about it, and Joseph’s mum keeps saying well maybe they went to Mexico and caught a plane to you know wherever and I’m like, I honestly, it is my, and I, I would stake my life on it, I don’t think Joseph would take those kids into Mexico, for any reason. Unless, I mean, there is a possibility that he would be in Tijuana maybe, you know like, you know how you just go over and there’s a little square there, he may be there, maybe, but I don’t think Joseph would take them in there, I, I just simply don’t.

TD: So what do you believe, I want to know what you believe happened to them, not what mum thinks.

CM: I don’t believe, I haven’t, I haven’t been able to form any opinion because…

TD: Nothing

CM: No because I, Joseph doesn’t have any enemies, and everybody loves Joseph, everybody, he has no financial problems that I know of, I mean him and I you know, I mean, things were tight over the last few months, because of the economy, but stuff has been, over the last couple of months, things have started picking up and everything was looking really promising, and Joseph didn’t have that much problem financially anyway, his, I know for sure that his bills are paid, and

TD: Do you know of anyone that has anything to gain by the loss of Joseph or Summer?

CM: Nobody.

TD: Does Summer have [any/many] friends? do you know?

CM: I have no idea.

TD: How about Joseph?

CM: It’s us. I don’t know, I, I mean I really don’t know, but

TD: And their loss – there’s something wrong, or they’re not coming back – how does that affect you?

CM: I’m, my business is done, my, my, our entire business

TD: You have nothing to gain by their loss?

CM: No, no (laughs)

TD: You had nothing to do with any, whether it was him going somewhere, you didn’t help participate in…

CM: No. Not… in any way, shape or form,

TD: Nothing to do with the disappearance whether it’s good or bad?

CM: Absolutely not. We have, I mean I don’t know of anybody that has anything to gain by Joseph being gone, I think everybody that I know has everything to lose. Everything. This, this business stems almost solely around Joseph, he does all of the sales, you know, Dan is now, Dan is trying to send me some emails and you know and trying to you know need to try to salvage some of the, the jobs that are, they’re trying to send stuff back, you know because they can’t get hold of Joseph, they’re pissed off, things like that, and, and uh projects that people are calling in for saying you know we’re ready to do them can you get hold of us and I’m trying to call them and trying to you know we’re, but, I can’t do what Joseph can do, there’s just no way, I manufacture, you know I’m a builder, I can’t sell,

TD: So in Joseph’s absence are you going to be able to maintain the business though?

CM: If he’s gone permanently?

TD: No, for the next 6 months.

CM: I don’t know. I don’t know. Dan is coming here, I have my doubts, um because there’s, there’s too much, there’s just too much to do, Joseph, he was, he did all the drawings, he did I mean he was on the phone with customers 10 hours a day, I mean every day all day long, I don’t know of anybody that can step into his shoes, and know what he knows, he, all of the, all of the contacts that he has, for the types of pumps and lights and, and just everything that he knows just isn’t there now, and I can still build the waterfalls and I, you know I’m quite sure that I’ll survive, you know, I mean if I have to go get a job in Home Depot, you know I’ll survive, but I’m not sure that we’ll be able to make the waterfall company continue. It depends a lot on Dan, if, if he can step up and get some stuff done and he says he’s trying, he says he’s working on it, he’s trying to you know get some sales done, I just, matter of fact this one right here I sold this one but this one was one that I’d already been working on so it was easy, there’s another one that Dan sent me that I’m working on right now but,

TD: And Dan’s in Hawaii?

CM: Dan’s flying here today. He’ll be here today.

TD: But you’re sure he was in Hawaii?

CM: Well I…

TD: How long has he been in Hawaii?

CM: As long as I’ve known Joseph, as far as I know.

TD: So 2 ½ years?

CM: I think so, I’ve, I’ve never known him to not be in Hawaii. I mean I, I heard, Joseph talks about..

TD: But you had never met?

CM: I’ve never met Dan.

TD: How do you know him?

CM: I met Mikey.

TD: You’ve only talked to Dan on the phone [x]?

CM: And only over the last week. I’ve never talked, before this, this happened to Joseph, I’d never, never talked to Dan ever. Didn’t even, I mean I knew of his existence, I knew his role in Joseph’s business, I knew um that Joseph was almost, had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part of the business, I think that was the number - I’m not ev.. not even sure about that, but I know that he only had $2,000 left, to pay. And Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website, instead of them being partners. Because up until he paid him off he was his partner, I know that. Um, he would talk about that all the time. Because Joseph was always afraid. 6, 7 months ago Joseph and Dan had a…..a spat, I don’t know exactly what, how, you know, how deep it was or anything so it was 6 or 7 months ago, I think, maybe, I’m sorry I don’t know, but they……decided at that time that Joseph was going to pay him for the, for his part of the business and for what he had done to build the websites and stuff, because apparently Dan is extremely adept at website building and you know he’s, he’s like a big hacker from what I, from what I gather, um, even from him personally when I talked to him over the last week um, I was talking to him the other day and he said, I said something about him knowing the web and he said yeah I’m not a person that you want to piss off on the web…

TD: yeah

CM: …matter of fact like, and I said yeah I know, Joseph told me that you can, there’s a lot you could do, you know, you could shut the, shut the website down because Joseph was afraid that he was just going to push the button and the website would be gone. Because that’s what Dan said. They were, you know, [x]. Dan said look, this is what I want, you know, I, I don’t have to continue working this website and so Joseph made a deal with him to, to buy his part of it because, I don’t, Dan wasn’t making enough money, I don’t even know what the, what it was but I know a while back they decided they were going to buy, Joseph was going to buy him out. And then he was just going to run the website. That’s the, that’s the extent that I know of. Um but Dan is coming here, he’s supposed to be here.

TD: I’ve talked to him, he’s actually willing to be here.

CM: Ah good.

TD: I’ve talked to him on the phone.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 9


TD: Who drove which vehicle in Joseph’s family?

CM: Summer drove the truck most of the time,

TD: Which truck?

CM: The green Dodge.

TD: Ok.

CM: And Joseph most of the time drove the little white car.

SF: The little white car?

CM: Errr, hatchback, I think it’s a Trooper,

TD: Isuzu Trooper

CM: Yeah, he drove that, most of the time, unless they were going someplace together,

TD: What was he driving on the 4th?

CM: The white car.

TD: The white Trooper?

CM: The white Trooper.

TD: Nobody with him?

CM: Nobody with him.

TD: Do you know if the child seats were in there? Did you see it?

CM: Yeah, I no, no, I didn’t see it.

D: Ok.

SF: Does he have a business vehicle?

CM: That’s his two cars, and he had, he used to have a BMW but he sold it to one of his soccer buddies,

TD: What about a van or a truck that’s [x]?

CM: Not that I know of, no, I don’t think he has, the only two cars he has are those two.

SF: And detective DuGal interrupted you, you were about to say when they were together they drove…?

CM: The white car.

SF: The white car, not the truck?

CM: Right. They always, if they were going anyplace, any place, if they were taking the kids, they went in the white car.

SF: Have you ever driven the white vehicle?

CM: No.

SF: Have you ever been in it?

CM: ….umm, de de….yeah. When, the la, the last time I was in it we went to, Camp Pendleton, went to, we played paintball, Camp Pendleton.

SF: How long ago was that?

CM: ………………month and a half, maybe, errrrr,

SF: Could have driven? Front passenger?

CM: Front passenger.

SF: But never driven?

CM: Never driven.

SF: When Summer and Jo were together who drove?

CM: Usually I think Joseph. Um, I don’t, I don’t ever remember seeing Summer driving. I think Joseph.

TD: Have you ever been inside of their house?

CM: Oh I’ve been inside of their house…

TD: Oh no you said you helped them move in.

CM: Besides that I’ve been inside their house, lots, I’m the one that built the, you know the shed where the dogs were,

TD: Yeah.

CM: I built that for him, I built, I made that, the wooden platform, I dug all that out, cos Joseph has been sick, I dug, dug the, dug it all put the platform down, built the, built the shed for him, um, moved most of their stuff in, um,

TD: Did he pay you to do that?

CM: No. He’s, he’s my best friend, you know, he, he, he was, he has been sick for a while, and Summer was on his butt about getting the shed done, she wanted it, because it was all in the garage, and she wanted him to get the garage cleaned out, because she wanted the pods to get there, and then the stuff that was in the pods, a lot of it was going to end up in the garage because they were still working on the…

TD: Where were the pods?

CM: I have no idea, I loaded them at the house, in San Clemente and they had pod people come and get them, and they took them.

SF: Do you know the company?

CM: The white, I think it says pod, yeah it was a big white one and I think it had a world on it, an Earth on it, I think, um there’s two pods, the one 20 feet I think, and one 16 feet or something like that, cos there’s two pods, I filled them both, so, along with, um Summer, Summer’s mum, they packed a lot of the stuff, packed it in there, um but any of the big stuff, all the stuff that came out of Joseph’s house out of his garage, and went into those pods, I did.

TD: Was Mike there when you were packing?

CM: Mike never helped, no.

TD: Did you have to repack the pod?

CM: [laughs] yeah

TD: How come?

CM: Because of Summer.

TD: How did that work out?

CM: Well Summer had left with her mother to go get food,

TD: With her mother?

CM: Summer’s. Yes.

TD: Ok, Summer and Summer’s mother.

CM: Correct, right, Summer and her mother.

TD: Do you know what her name is?

CM: You know I don’t remember her name, I mean I was there for, for 3 days, helping them pack and stuff, when she was there the whole time, but she wasn’t all that memorable you know, I don’t even remember her name.

TD: Do you think their relationship as mother daughter was ok?

CM: Seemed fine, yeah, seemed to be, um, the reason I had to repack the pod is because while they were gone I had a whole bunch of stuff and I, I mean I filled like a third of the pod, at least a third of it, and at the end of it, um, we were just finishing up taking a bunch of stuff out of the garage, Summer comes home and as she’s passing the pod she looks in oh no no no no no, that’s not going to do it, I’m like you know, I’m not, I may not be the best packer in the world but I’d packed pretty darn tight cos they had to fit a lot of stuff in those pods. So she went off on Joseph, about the fact that that’s not gonna work and he needs to take everything out, and I’m like ok, let them argue, I let them argue about it for 3 or 4 minutes, she was pretty adamant that it was coming out and her and her mother was gonna pack it and show us how it was gonna be packed right, so they argued about it for a couple of minutes and finally I was just standing there kind of like ok, so finally I just went over and I took everything out of the pod, and

TD: Did Summer direct you to do that or were you just sitting with Joseph?

CM: I was kind of sitting with Joseph, yeah. Summer didn’t ask, maybe it was, um Summer was always very….…unless she had something like an outburst like the thing about the corporal punishment or the pizza she always had little things like that but for the most part I mean I went over there 3 days straight all day long every I mean from 8 o clock in the morning was the latest I got there till 8 o clock at night and I was working my butt off the whole the whole time, I mean we moved all of the terracotta pots and the plants and stuff over to his mother’s house, I mean it was just he had a, he had a lot of stuff,

TD: [x]

CM: Um landlord gave him notice.

TD: How come?

CM: He told me, um, oh, the next door neighbour was complaining about all the stuff in the driveway, Joseph from half of the driveway to the garage there was a, I think it’s a duplex that he was in, half of his driveway all the way back to the garage was nothing but kids toys, and he put up a fence in the driveway himself and had that shed there, and just I mean it was just strewn with all kinds of stuff it was a mess, it was a pretty big mess, and er the lady I believe, I think it’s a woman out there, she was complaining about all the stuff and everything and they went back and forth with the landlord a little bit I think and then the landlord just gave them notice. At that time Joseph had already been looking for a house anyway so he just said ok fine, the reason I had to go and help him 3 days in a row because they were planning on packing those pods over a week or so, the problem was the landlord had given them notice to move, and they got in this [x] they needed to, they got a notice from the court that they were supposed to respond to and Joseph didn’t respond Summer didn’t respond and nobody responded, so when they finally looked at the paper it was like 3 days before they had to be completely out of there, 3 or 4 days, (laughing), and they couldn’t go back to court and say can I have more time, it was just like, so, they were, Summer was pissed off with Joseph and Joseph was pissed off with Summer about that because they had to now they had to get these pods and get them there and get it, and that’s why I was there, because Joseph couldn’t have done it, it was just, it was impossible.

TD: What would you say the interior of their residence in San Clemente looked like?

CM: Kind of like the interior of my house most of the time, with kids, I mean except a lot hairier with their big dog, I mean they had hair…

TD: Would you call it neat and orderly, or messy, or?

CM: Most of the time it was messy, but most of the time my house is messy,

[x] laughter

CM: It is now, it was before I started but I actually spent a half hour or so cleaning up before you got there because I, you know, I, we have kids toys and stuff and…

SF: It looked pretty clean to me.

CM: …clothes laying around, I picked up most of my stuff before you got there but um, Summer, the best that I can remember every time I went over sometimes it would be almost spotless, and then the rest, the rest of the time it would be strewn, you know, and with kids you know that’s just what it is, you know.

SF: Did they leave food out usually?

CM: No. No she kept the dishes uh, she, her and him, he did the dishes also, they were, it wasn’t unsanitary, I mean, other than dog hair on the floor but you know, I don’t know how unsanitary dog hair is, um it wasn’t, it wasn’t bad I mean I didn’t feel you know, I didn’t feel like I couldn’t sit down or something in their house, it wasn’t any big deal, I mean you had to step over some things every once in a while.

TD: Did you help paint down here?

CM: His apartment?

TD: No the house.

CM: No, no. No.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 10


TD: So let’s go from February 4th and I forgot to ask you these questions, February 4th, [x], telephone calls, when did you next try to contact Jo? What do you call him Joseph?

CM: Joseph. Yeah, I’ve always known him as Joseph.

TD: Ok.

CM: I don’t call him but I know, I just found out that Mike, Mikey and his mum called him Joey. And I know Summer always called him Giuseppe but I always knew him as Joseph.

TD: Ok, when was the next time you tried to contact him?

CM: ……………Oh Friday I’m sure, I mean,

TD: The next day.

CM: Yeah, yeah. I’m sure.

TD: By telephone?

CM: By telephone yeah.

TD: And, did you try again on Saturday?

CM: I’m quite sure that I probably tried almost every day and probably a few times a day. There’s no doubt.

TD: And you, when did you go back down there? And what inspired you to do that?

CM: Um, Monday, Tuesday, I can’t remember whether it was Tuesday or Wednesday, it may have, I, I don’t remember which day it was. Um Joseph’s mum may remember the exact day, I went, I drove over to Joseph’s house, on Tuesday or Wednesday, so it’d be the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th – 9th or 10th? I believe. Um, because I hadn’t been able to get hold of Joseph and we’ve, we’ve got just tons of, you know bids we were working on,

TD: Ok, let’s say the 9th, did you say the 9th or the 10th was the first time? That would be a Tuesday, February 9th was a Tuesday.

CM: Yeah, 9th or 10th then.

TD: You went down to the house…

CM: To Joseph’s house.

TD: And what did you do?

CM: Knocked on the door, rang the doorbell, his white car wasn’t there, um, dogs were barking, I went back and looked at the dogs,

TD: Did you see any notifications on the door?

CM: No, no. No.

TD: Ok.

CM: Um, went back into the backyard, looked at the dogs, the water dish and the, there was a bag of food just left in the, in the thing, in the shed, and there was, their water dish inside the shed was empty. They had no water. So I filled the water dish and put it back into the

TD: Did it look like that bag was left for a long-term feeding? Or was it a bag that the dogs got to and opened it up?

CM: No, he never kept the dog food in the shed, that’s the first I’ve ever seen the dogs in the shed, ever, they, the dogs stayed in the house, at night they slept in the house, she put, she put the puppy up in the laundry room, I think, there’s a

TD: Dogs [x]?

CM: No, they were out most of the day, almost all day, they were outside, they were inside at night, they, they never kept them outside, never.

TD: Where was the dog food kept, do you have any knowledge?

CM: Yeah, I don’t know I, I, I remember Joseph feeding them but I don’t remember where he got that from.

TD: What I’m getting at and help me with this, cos I don’t know them and I don’t know his dog, but this, if I’m his friend and I walk in the backyard and I see this shed open with a bag of dog food and an empty water bowl, is that normal?

CM: No. No. No. That’s, it, it, it, well especially, I did not, I couldn’t get hold of Joseph all the way from you know Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday or whatever day it was I went down finally went down there I was just like you know I’d left a message saying dude you know call me we’ve gotta get this stuff resolved and, and he never called me back, so I drove up there. When I saw the uhh the water dish was empty, so I filled it up and put it back in the shed, from there I went straight down to his mum’s house,

TD: Did you touch the dog food bag?

CM: …………I don’t remember. I don’t remember touching the b, no I don’t think so,

TD: And the reason I ask you this, who put that there if that’s not normal for Joseph, it’s not normal for Summer, who put that out there?

CM: I don’t know. I would not see Joseph leaving his dogs outside. Joseph is the one that always brought them in. Always. He al, when it got this time of night he would open the door and let the dogs in, that’s just, that’s just the way it was. Kids would play with the puppy and then after a while Summer would take the puppy up and put the puppy in the laundry room. That’s, that was their kind of routine.

TD: What else did you see around the house?

CM: Well that’s it, I, I knocked on the door, watered the dogs

TD: Noticed any windows open, any doors unlocked?

CM: Not, not that day, on Tuesday no. Um I know the doors were, were locked because I tried them, I tried them, the back door and the front door.

TD: Ok.

CM: The doors were locked. Um, did not notice any windows or anything open because I wasn’t looking. Um whenever that was, it was either Tuesday or Wednesday. Um, went down, from there I went straight down to his mum’s, and she happened to be home,

TD: Where does she live?

CM: She lives off of Temescal Canyon, um….uh what’s that……?

SF: In Fallbrook?

CM: No, no, no, she lives down…

SF: Anywhere near there?

CM: No she lives down on the way back,

SF: Do you know the city?

CM: I’m trying to, Temescal Canyon you passed it on the way here.

SF: Do you have any idea where that is?

CM: Um what’s the name of it? God.

TD: Lake Elsinore?

CM: No no. Way this side of Lake Elsinore, it’s just above Corona.

TD: Riverside?

CM: No, above Riverside, above Corona, if you’re going up the 15 you pass the 91 and you go up about six more miles.

TD: Norco.

CM: No,

TD: Further

CM: Beyond, beyond Norco, uh 6 or 7, 8 miles, maybe 10, you’ll get to Temescal Canyon. When you get off on Temescal Canyon you know right and there’s a, there’s a big place, Tom’s Farms, do you know where Tom’s Farms is?

TD: I’ve heard of it.

CM: Ok, that’s, that’s the exit you get off on. Tom’s Farms. Um, I knew where she lived because all of Joseph’s pots and a lot of stuff from his house went into her garage and all around her house. He had, he had like, or she had like 40 or 50 plants, I mean just in pots and all kinds of, tons of terracotta pots and all kinds of stuff that we, when they were moving, we took to her house, to Joseph’s mum’s, just had em strewn them all around, next to her plants, until Joseph could um pick them up after he moved into his house. So, I went up to her, er I, I knocked, I knocked on the door and

TD: This is the first visit,

CM: Yeah

TD: the 9th or 10th

CM: Correct. And I said do you have any idea where Joseph is? I can’t, I can’t reach him, I can’t, I can’t find him, you know and she said no and she hadn’t she said she hadn’t er heard from him either but she said that’s not unusual and she goes I’ll try to get hold of him, I said please if you get hold of him let, let him know you know Chase is looking for him. And uh we talked for uh a few minutes, er not long, and uh I said just said can you please let me know if you get hold of him, and she was gonna call Mikey to see if he’d heard from him, and call Summer’s number, um you know,

 

[Tortoise]

PART 11


TD: So then when’s the next time you go down there?

CM: Uhhh, let’s see, Tuesday um Thursday, ……I think it was Friday, and that’s when I talked to Mikey

SF: The 12th?

TD: The 11th.

SF: Isn’t it the 12th?

TD: No it was the 12th. Go ahead.

SF: Yeah it was the 12th.

CM: I think it was Friday, I’m, I, a little bit of a reserve, but I’m almost positive it was Friday, because that’s the day that I talked to Mikey.

TD: Did you meet Mike?

CM: No. I didn’t meet him there then,

TD: Ok, so you went down there and talked to Mike and went down to the house and what’d you do?

CM: Um, went and knocked on the door, um went to a couple of the neighbours to see if they had seen him but all the damn neighbours were, none of them were home, um went into the backyard, and that’s when I called Mikey and J…and Jo’s mum and said somebody’s taking care of the dogs, because the water bowl that I filled I put it in the sh, in the shed, was now in the backyard, underneath the faucet, somebody had put it under the faucet, and, and the water dripped in it, sort of like they were taking care of the dogs, so I told, I told um Mikey that and I told his mum that, and his mum said well if he’s having somebody to take care of the dogs and I said well somebody’s taking care of the dogs, I said but I don’t know whether HE’S having somebody take care of the dogs, I said somebody moved the water dish for sure but I said I don’t think Joseph would put these dogs out there, I don’t think he would leave them outside. I think he would have somebody you know, I said I think he would probably put them in a, one of those little dog hotels, you know, that that’s the type Joseph is,

TD: What was the condition of the house, doors, windows?

CM: Ok, that day um I looked I was looking through the windows trying to see if I could you know see anything because I told Mikey that I would, and the, Joseph’s office window

TD: Mmm?

CM: …was partly open on that day, and I looked

[CM’s phone rings] “Yes dear, you’re going to the bank? Ok, well, I don’t know how long we’re going to be so whenever, yes, alright, bye.”

CM: Um, I, I did notice that, that the rear office window was partway opened, ok

TD: Was the screen on?

CM: Screen was off, it was off, I looked through the, through the slats, um, his desk light was on, and that’s all I could see, and I could barely see through in, in the glass door couldn’t really see much, um, through the window in the front you can see about this much, you know, there’s about, you know the slats were raised about this much but I could see the living room but that’s all, you know I, I really couldn’t see anything so I told Mikey I said you know you guys should probably come and you know call the police and you know have this checked out, you guys need to get down here. They didn’t that day, I went, I went on back home, they didn’t that day, um I don’t remember…

TD: You didn’t go in?

CM: No I did not go in, no, I was kind of, I mean, I, I say I’m not going to but I, I actually considered it, I was like you know,

TD: Sure.

End of Video 2

 

[Tortoise]

PART 12


Start of Video 3


CM: Joseph wouldn’t have really wouldn’t have cared if I had gone in but I, I just decided you know I’ll let, I’ll let Mikey deal with it, because Mikey said he was going to come down, well something I don’t know he got tied up at work or

TD: Where does Mikey live?

CM: San Clemente.

TD: Ok.

CM: He’s half an hour away, somewhere.

TD: Ok.

CM: Yeah, San Clemente, anyway so he said he was going to come down, I went home, um, called him on Saturday I don’t even, don’t even remember what time, I think it was in the morning,

SF: Called Michael?

CM: Mikey, and said are you going to be going down there? I’ll go with you, you know, if you’re going to call the police and you know need, need some moral support I’ll be there, I said you know, because by then everybody was upset, including me, and I said, and matter of fact my wife is still chewing my about me not calling the police before Mikey and, but Mikey and his mum kept saying I know Joseph and you know, he, he probably just wanted to get some, take some, you know, be away for, you know, away from the telephone or whatever and they’re probably on vacation they’re going to be back and then Jo, Mikey said well if they took a 10 day vacation which most vacations are, they’ll get back no later than Sunday and so on, and I was just like just call the police, you know just, just you know, and I told his mother I said it’s not going to hurt anything, it’s not going to cost anything at least they, you know, and that day, on Saturday, I told Mikey, I said you know, what if Joseph did go to the mountains and he drove off a cliff, you know, and he’s down in a ravine, 200ft down in a ravine, and you know nobody sees his car down there for two or three weeks, and you know, I said you know you should call them now, you should call the police now, that’s when he said we’ll wait until tomorrow, tomorrow’s the absolute last day, if he’s not back tomorrow, then

TD: And that’s when you guys met on Sunday the 14th?

CM: I met Mikey at the house

TD: What time?

CM: …………..I can’t remember, it was midday, uh late morning I think, I met him at the house with his, with Mikey’s wife and the kids were there, um, I actually met him at the gas station because Mikey had never been to Joseph’s house, so I met Mikey at the gas station right down the street from it, and he followed me to Joseph’s, he had, he had um a TomTom but um I was already you know, I, I had already gotten to the gas station first cos I had to get gas anyway.

TD: What did you guys do when you got there?

CM: Um first thing we did was walk to all the neighbours um kind of, each one of us took a house, and asked the neighbours the ones that we could find if they had seen anything or

TD: Did anybody tell you they saw anything?

CM: No, no, they, they everybody just kind of said you know, you know um, then Mikey was kind of wandering around talking to himself, you know, he didn’t, he didn’t seem in very good spirits, I mean he was, he was upset, which, I can understand why, and finally I said dude, just go in the house, I said you know at least go in and you know and then you know just go in.

TD: Right.

CM: So he went in the house

TD: Dogs still in the back?

CM: Dogs were still in the back.

TD: Water bowl under the dripping faucet?

CM: Water bowl under the dripping faucet. He, he went through the office window then met me

TD: Do you know if he broke any slats going through the window?

CM: ….I don’t think so. No…

TD: There was a couple of damaged slats but minor damage.

CM: Not that I know of.

TD: Well were they down? Or up?

CM: They were down.

TD: They were down.

CM: They were down.

TD: So he had to move them to get in

CM: Yeah but he didn’t move them very much, there was a chair in the way, he, he moved the chair out of the way, and he just kind of slid one leg over and then the, I don’t think he broke any slats, I don’t think, I mean they’re wooden.

[CM’s phone rings] Excuse me. “Uh, I don’t know you.”

TD: So, did you go in?

CM: Yeah, he, he went to um the sliding glass door, let me in the sliding glass door and then I went to the front door and let his wife and kids in.

TD: Ok.

CM: Because they had to go to the bathroom pretty bad. So they came in and went to the bathroom, uh Mikey went upstairs um…. I just kind of, I was standing at the bottom…

TD: Who went to the bathroom? Did the wife go to the bathroom?

CM: I don’t, actually yes she did because she told the neighbour

TD: Somebody didn’t flush the toilet.

CM: Oh, sorry. Uh but

TD: You know what? I need to know that stuff

CM: Yeah, she did because she had, she’d just told the neighbour that um, because after we left the house when we, when we walked out of the house Mikey locked the door and closed the door and then there was a little girl looked at mum and said I gotta go potty, but the door was already locked, so um Mikey told his wife to go ask the next door neighbours because they were already out and talking to me, and I was just walking away from them but she didn’t want to ask them so Mikey told his little girl to ask, and she didn’t want to so I went and asked and the neighbour said of course, come on in and go, you know, go to the bathroom, and um the reason I noticed she went to the bathroom there is because when the neighbour said um does anybody else need to go she said no I went, well I already went to the bathroom when the house was open, ok, so I know, I know she went to the bathroom in the house, and she was only downstairs, and there’s only one bathroom downstairs, so…

TD: Ok.

CM: Ok. She went down, she went to the bathroom and I believe her other little girl went to the bathroom, but nobody else. I didn’t go, uh Mikey didn’t…

TD: Did you ever return to the house after you left there?

CM: No.

TD: Haven’t been back?

CM: Haven’t been back.

TD: Please don’t go back, don’t go back.

CM: I won’t.

TD: And before we leave I’m gonna ask you, will you volunteer to give DNA, we just want to exclude you since you’ve been to the house, been in their car, no problem?

CM: Of course not.

TD: It’s just that you’re a, you’re a,

 

[Tortoise]

PART 13


SF: What kind of vehicle do you drive?

CM: A Chevy truck.

SF: What colour is it?

CM: White, and grey, with, it’s a Chevy 3500

SF: [x]?

CM: Yeah.

SF: And what year?

CM: 99

SF: How tall are you and how much do you weigh?

CM: 6ft 2. 210.

SF: What about Jo, how tall is he and how much does he weigh?

CM: Shorter than me, I could actually tell you about what he weighed only because, I, the one of these articles here said his weight was 175 but he was 5’8? I would guess, let me see, that’s about 5’8 isn’t it?

SF: No because I’m only 5’6 so, ok so about,

CM: He was, he was definitely shorter than me.

SF: I’m gonna ask some questions if we can go back because we were just talking about you going to the house on the 13th, do you remember what time you went in?

CM: Um 13th which day was that?

SF: That was the day you [x]

TD: Sunday.

CM: Oh Sunday, ok, um, time [x]

SF: Was it Sunday or Saturday?

TD: Sunday.

CM: I think it was Sunday.

TD: That’s the day that Mike calls the police.

SF: That’s the day we went out.

TD: Yeah.

SF: That’s the day you went in right? the 14th, I thought you said you went down…

TD: Friday.

SF: I thought you said you went down on the 13th and met Mike at the house midday.

CM: No I

TD: That was the 14th

SF: That was the 14th?

TD: He said Friday the 12th he talked to Mike then he went to the house then he left the house and he told Mikey he said when you all gonna come down I’ll support you I’ll do whatever wanted to go out on Saturday, he didn’t go till Sunday

SF: Ok that’s I wrote down the 12th, and then the 13th so when you went in do you remember what time it was?

CM: Hmm, you know honestly it’s a little bit of a blur but I believe it was late morning very early afternoon.

SF: So it was still light out?

CM: Oh yeah.

SF: Did you notice

CM: And very light.

SF: Did you notice if any of the lights in the house were on?

CM: …One. The office light.

SF: The office light.

CM: The lamp

SF: Was on.

CM: The lamp on the…desk. But I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt I know for a fact that that light I have never seen it off. Ok, he always leaves, he always left it on because his kids get up in the middle of the night and they go downstairs and get water out of the, out of the refrigerator, and he always left that light on and the door open so that they didn’t fall down the stairs and stuff.

SF: Were any other lights on when you next went there?

CM: Not that I would, not that, I was downstairs so I didn’t see any lights upstairs anyway, but as far as I know there was only the lamp, that was it.

SF: Do you know who sleeps in what room?

CM: Think they all sleep in the same room.

SF: Ok and do you know which room that is?

CM: Theeeeeeeeeee, main the master bedroom, if you go in the master bedroom there’s a kiddie play thing on the right hand side, his, his blow up mattress and the kids’ I think I’m right, right next to each other, I know I went with him to Walmart and to Target and we went shopping for blow up mattresses for em because they didn’t have the um pods there, they didn’t have any mattresses and I was actually with him when we got the mattresses and I helped him blow em up and so

SF: Did they stay anywhere between the time they lived in San Clemente and planned to live in Fallbrook?

CM: Yeah, at Joseph’s mum’s.

SF: Oh at Joseph’s mum’s, ok, [x] buying a house?

CM: No they were already in the process of buying the house.

SF: Oh they were, when they got evicted?

CM: When they got evicted but as for having closed they couldn’t, they couldn’t move in, um I don’t think it was more than two or three weeks.

SF: That they lived there?

CM: Yeah. And yeah his mum wasn’t real happy about it especially because of the dog, because her house, you’ve never been there but absolutely immaculate, and Joseph’s kids are, are, they’re [hard nut house?] they’re, they’re always on, always, like you don’t understand these kids, his boys were, I mean they would get up on the kitchen…

SF: I saw a video on YouTube, they’re on YouTube and stuff,

CM: Ok.

SF: I saw how energetic they are.

CM: Yeah, that’s a good word for it,

SF: laughs

CM: They ever [use] corporal punishment?

CM: No, she didn’t believe in it, she didn’t believe in any kind of corporal, she, I swear she would go stop it, stop it, stop it, and she would do that for half an hour, until they lost interest in whatever they were doing, and go about doing something else, it was, oh God, [laughing]

SF: You talked a little bit about his cell phone and trying to call him,

CM: Yeah.

SF: Do you remember, if this happened and if it did happen whether it went directly to Voicemail or was it ringing and then going to Voicemail?

CM: I have not called him a single time that it didn’t go to Voicemail.

SF: Oh so every time you called him

CM: it went to Voicemail.

SF: It goes right to Voicemail. He doesn’t answer his phone?

CM: He didn’t, no he didn’t answer his phone but then every time, I stopped trying to call him um, I don’t even remember what day, but, err, I, I don’t even remember what day, but I stopped trying to call him because Mikey or his mum or somebody had told me his message box is full. Ok, but the last time I tried to call him I left a message.

SF: What I have to ask you though is – did his phone usually do that? Or is that unusual for his phone to do that?

CM: His never, his message box was never full.

SF: What I’m saying is for his phone to go directly to Voicemail did it usually ring some and then go to Voicemail or did he answer or how…?

CM: His phone would ring and I know this pretty much by heart, his phone would ring at least like 5 or 6 rings and then go to Voicemail.

SF: That’s typical, before the 4th?

CM: Yeah, yeah.

SF: That’s what I’m asking. Ok.

CM: Yeah.

SF: So here’s what I’m asking, when’s the first time you called him it went, it was unusual because it went right to Voicemail?

TD: With no rings.

CM: It never went with no rings, when I was trying to call him.

TD: So it always went ring-ring-ring and then Voicemail?

CM: Yeah.

SF: Even after the 4th?

CM: As far as I remember I, I would have thought that it I, I would have, I think I would have noticed a change. I’m almost positive, every time I tried to call him it rang first.

SF: Even after the 4th?

CM: Yeah, even after the 4th.

SF: Did he have anybody he did business with in Mexico or near the Mexico border? If you may know?

CM: Not that I know of.

SF: Did you have anyone that you did business with?

CM: No. I, yeah, no.

SF: When’s the last time you have been down by the Mexican border?

CM: …………Um……….probably………I want to say a year ago? I went to Tijuana.

SF: About a year ago?

CM: yeah.

SF: Haven’t been down to San Ysidro or [south city?] or Mexico since?

CM: Nah.

SF: Not at all?

CM: Not at all.

SF: Describe your visit to Mexico.

CM: Um, the only, the only time…..the only reason I went into Mexico is specifically I went there specifically to get, get a, some things, specifically.

SF: What kind of things?

CM: Viagra.

SF: Ok

CM: Cos you can get Viagra there over the counter. So about a year ago I went there and

SF: And not since?

CM: No.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 14


SF: This might be hard for you, but I was hoping you could walk me through, because you can remember you talked about talking to him on the 4th and then not talking to him on the 5th, the following let’s see Monday, Monday was the 8th of February?

TD: Yes.

SF: I want to see if you can remember I know this might be kind of hard for you, but if you could walk me through your day, Monday February 8th, do you have a calendar or anything?

TD: It was Presidents Day.

SF: It was a holiday.

TD: Your kid wouldn’t have been in school, probably not.

CM: No he wasn’t in school, Presidents Day,……….I don’t, I don’t remember, I could probably call my wife and she could probably prompt me as to things that transpired and then I can probably recall some of the things that we did.

SF: Does your wife work?

CM: Yes she works but not on Presidents Day.

SF: Ok, so she would have been with you?

CM: Yeah, yeah.

SF: What time do you usually go to bed?

CM: Uhh, it depends, um 11, ish, yeah usually, sometimes watch a movie or

SF: Um it’s up to you whether you want him to call his wife.

CM: She might be able to prompt me.

TD: Can you remember a little of what you did?

CM: Yeah but

TD: It was probably [who you had lunch with?] – oh no, that’s the day that [x]

SF: [x]

TD: Ok, that’s just, try and think of what I did on the 8th to see if, see if I can remember what I did that day. Maybe he should call his wife. [laughter]

CM: Yeah I, I don’t remember, just one second, my eyes are gone, getting old,

TD: It’s difficult.

SF: I told him he needed to try, but he’s tried.

TD: It’s the end of the long weekend,

[CM CALLS CATHY]: ”Hey just prompt me, because I cannot remember at all, what did we do or what do you know that I did on Presidents Day. The 8th. Yeah, Monday.”

CM: Oh just, I lost connection, hang on.

[CM CALLS CATHY]: “Hello? Yeah, you were just, I just lost you, anyway, what went on on Monday? You’re breaking up. You’re still breaking up a lot, can you call me right back? I can’t even understand what are you saying. Ok. I was home, you were home, what did we do? Nothing.

SF: What time did you go to bed?

CM: “What time did we go to bed?

CJ: [x]

CM: “Hey

SF: And just ask if you left this area.

CM: “Ok, I, I, did I go anywhere? Hello? Arghhh, hello? Can you hear me?”

CM: I lost her again. One second.

SF: That’s ok.

CM: Um, she said we were home, but that’s all she said. And I didn’t get a chance to… Ok, try her one more time, hang on, hang on one second. Ok,

[CM CALLS CATHY]:

CJ: [x]

CM: “Now can you hear me?

CJ: [x]

CM: Ok, what exactly did we do on Presidents Day, you said we were at home, right?

CJ: [x]

CM: Ok. What time did we go to bed?

CJ: [x]

CM: Well, if you were to guess.

CJ: I would, that was the night I [x]

CM: Ok, you were gone, oh so you were gone

CJ: I went to [x] I went for [x] I didn’t get home till 10:[x]

CM: 10 what?

CJ: About 10:40 I got home at 10:40 and you were already [x] watching a movie.

CM: Ok. That’s all I needed thank you. Lov…

CJ: [x]

CM: That was what?

CJ: [x] that was the [x] we stayed up

CM: No, Monday the 8th. Presidents Day.

CJ: [x]

SF: What’s today, today would be the 17th

CM: It was Monday, a week, a week ago Monday. Not two days ago.

CJ: Well, this past Monday was Presidents Day.

CM: Oh, ok,

CJ: [x]

CM: Ok, it was another Presidents Day a week ago Monday, do you remember what we did then? Sorry.

CJ: [x]

CM: Are you sure?

CJ: [x] a week ago.

CM: Alright, thank you, love you, bye,

CJ: [x]

CM: Or you could look at a calendar to see if there’s,

CJ: [x] remember.

CM: Ok when you get home do that and call me. Bye”

SF: Did you leave this area at all?

TD: [x]

SF: Ok, do you know where Jo usually parked the car, the white SUV, where that was usually parked?

CM: Directly in front of the house on the street.

SF: On the street directly in front of the house.

CM: She always parked the truck in the driveway. She didn’t like him parking the white car next to it because she couldn’t get the kids in or out. If the cars were too close she wanted to be able to open the door and it not swing closed, they were always, so he always parked on the street I know

TD: [x]

SF: Do you think or have you ever thought that Summer and Joseph [are dead]?

CM: I’ve tried not to think about that actually. Um Mikey and his mum keep saying you know things, things like that but you know I don’t know of anybody that would hurt Joseph, or two little kids for that matter, so

SF: Do you have any knowledge or information which indicates to you that they’re dead?

CM: No.

SF: Ok. The reason I ask is because you have used the past tense about Jo a couple of times, you said Jo was, typically people don’t do that a lot.

CM: Ok.

SF: Any explanation as to why you may have done that?

CM: No, I’m, no not really, I just, no, I

SF: Do you understand what I’m asking?

CM: Oh of course, you know, of course, I completely understand but no I, I’ve never really even thought of him as possibly being, well I can’t say I haven’t thought of him as possibly being dead because I have but I don’t like to think of it that way of course, so no, I

SF: It’s interesting because you know we deal with families and friends of people all the time and often times they will notify them that their loved one is dead but they will still use the present tense because it really hasn’t set in,

CM: Ok

SF: So that’s why I’m asking you, you used the past tense a couple of times which is really unusual.

CM: Yeah. I have no idea, you know I’m not sure what, what I used past tense in…

SF: When we

CM: …in context with but, but I have no idea why.

SF: You said Jo was my best friend.

CM: Oh. I did.

SF: You did.

CM: Mm, I don’t know why. Yeah.

SF: Did you guys have any falling out at all?

CM: Never. Never, no.

SF: Ok, so it wouldn’t be like he was my best friend but now…?

CM: No, absolutely not, Joseph is

SF: Ok, he’s still your best friend.

CM: Oh yeah definitely.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 15


SF: Ok, [x] injuries, how did you injure your hand?

CM: Here?

SF: Yeah.

CM: I just, just did it today on a piece of sheet metal.

SF: Pretty new

CM: Yeah I was walking by a piece of sheet metal, um we deal in stainless steel waterfalls and I was [at the shop x] and I actually bled like a split pig.

SF: It looks pretty, pretty bad.

CM: Well, it’s actually not that bad but it sliced it this way, I walked by and I rubbed my hand just against the edge of the stainless and it just…

SF: Ok.

CM: Yeah.

SF: Do you have injuries anywhere else?

CM: No.

SF: No.

TD: What about your stomach?

CM: No.

SF: And I’m going to put this to you again and I know my partner has already asked you this, but what do you think happened to these guys?

CM: I, I really have, I mean, I, I haven’t been able to form any real explanation as to why Joseph would just disappear. Because as I was just telling him, Joseph has no enemies, whatsoever, that I know of.

SF: What about Summer?

CM: I don’t know that Summer knows enough people to have enemies, I, she’s, she’s

SF: We decided that we were going to [x] associated with or people who are affiliated with Joseph [x] obviously sometimes you can

CM: Yeah, no the people that love Joseph, everybody who loves Joseph, I can’t say everybody but most of the people that love Joseph, dislike Heather, [x] ex Heather, er Summer.

SF: Why is that?

CM: Because she has always treated Joseph, everybody told Joseph don’t marry her, don’t marry her

SF: Why?

CM: Because she’s, she’s a pain in the butt. She’s, she’s very, very difficult. He always said no no it’s, she’s just Columbian you know, he, and he talked all the time about her….being Columbian as if you know it’s something positive you know like my little Columbian girl and I’m like

SF: Speaking of Columbian, does she have friends or family or connections with people who are Columbian?

CM: I have no idea. All I know is she’s Columbian because he always said she was Columbian um I always assumed that she was just Columbian by descent but, and American, but you know, but er he was always very um positive about, positive about her being Columbian but ehhhh, nobody around Joseph, nobody around Joseph likes Summer very much. Because Joseph is just a super nice guy, I mean, I mean he, he’ll give you the shirt off his back, I mean he’ll do anything for you, and Summer is just the opposite, you know, she’s...

TD: Taking the shirt [x]?

CM: Well I don’t know so much about that but she won’t, she won’t give up anything, you know, she, what’s hers is hers and what’s hers is going to stay hers and Joseph is more like you need what? – there you go. I mean I got, you know, mine and Joseph’s running tab is 10,000, he owes me $10,000 I owe him $15,000, he owes me $5,000 I owe him 15,000, you know it just goes, and Summer never, never liked that, because you know, it was, it was never, it was just always a running tab, you know, if I needed money I’d pick up the phone and say hey dude I need a couple of thousand dollars um, if, if he needed something done he picks up the phone hey dude I need, you know, we got it done, whatever it was we got it done.

SF: Are you having any financial problems?

CM: I’m, we’ve been having financial problems for six, seven months, eight months.

SF: Why’s that?

CM: Well it’s just business has been, it dropped, almost dropped right out from under us for, like three months it was almost no sales at all, and that killed us financially, my heart attack didn’t help much, that, that

SF: Didn’t you have medical insurance or did you have to pay for that out of pocket?

CM: Out of pocket, I only pay, I haven’t paid [long?] and we’re right now actually we’re negotiating with the hospital, but this is $107,000

SF: 107? How much debt are you in?

CM: That’s it, I mean I know, I don’t really owe a lot of, um cos all of my bills like when I buy…

TD: You’re in good shape

Laughter

CM: …when I buy stainless steel, stuff like that, pay cash for it, I don’t really owe a lot of money except for the hospital, that’s the big you know, worst comes to the worst I’ll, um you know, won’t be able to pay the hospital I mean I want to of course, it’s my debt, but you know, I, I don’t in the financial situation we’re in now it’s, it’s going to be iffy at least for a while, you know especially if Joseph doesn’t get back really soon you know my rent won’t get paid at the end of this month, so that’s not going to be fun.

SF: I don’t want to [x] about Joseph or Summer in any way but obviously there’s some things that I want to ask you

[CM’s PHONE RINGS]

CM: Think it’s my wife probably looking at the calendar. “Hello, yeah, go ahead, she had what? Ok. Thank you. No. Alright. Thank you. Love you. Bye.”

SF: So are you aware if either one of them associated with anyone who used physical drugs?

CM: No.

SF: Any, did they use physical drugs?

CM: Absolutely none, the only thing that Joseph – Joseph used to, um before I met him.

SF: He used to, what kind of drugs are we talking?

CM: Um, the only one that I know of and, and I only know this because he offered it to me, he had, I think it was called E.

SF: Ecstasy?

CM: I’m not, he, he called it E.

SF: What did he say it would do for him?

CM: Enhanced sexual…

SF: [x]

CM: Yeah, ok. He said that he had some or however it comes, in his freezer, because I guess you’re supposed to keep it cold, and he offered it to me seven or eight months ago maybe, maybe longer than that, and I declined. And er, but he said it was from a friend of his that he used to, um, years before he had gotten it the guy had just given it to him and he said here

SF: So he got it years before or he got it from his friend who he knew years before?

CM: No he, from a friend he knew years before,

SF: So did he have recent contact with that friend?

CM: I don’t know how recent it was, he had it in his freezer that’s all I know, um and it was, it was something he wasn’t ever going to use, I know that because he was offering it to me, so

SF: Why have it?

CM: I don’t know. That’s, that’s why [x]

TD: Did you look in the freezer while you were in the house?

CM: No. No.

TD: Nobody removed anything from the freezer? My concern is what you’re telling me if I was a friend [] police come in here let’s make sure that’s not in there.

CM: No, no, no, no, no, if it was in the freezer we didn’t, we definitely didn’t, if it was in there it’s still in there.

SF: Any other drugs besides this E?

CM: No.

SF: Marijuana, meth, heroin?

CM: No. Absolutely not. Joseph does, he does no drugs, he, he found religion, um

SF: What kind of religion?

CM: Christian, um, he doesn’t go to church or anything but um..

SF: Why did he find it then?

CM: Because [x] in his drug days a while back

SF: So he had drug days

CM: Yeah, he had drug days, back years ago,

SF: So tell me what we’re talking about.

CM: You know, I don’t know, I don’t think it was so bad that it really massively affected his life or anything,

SF: Ok.

CM: But he said he used to take a lot of drugs, that’s all, that’s, that’s pretty much all he told me.

SF: What kind of drugs?

CM: E.

SF: Anything else?

CM: That’s all that’s the only thing he

TD: Did you see him buying them?

CM: No. I saw nothing but I didn’t…

TD: [x]

SF: I’d have to look but I

CM: I’m pretty sure it was, I’m positive it was E,

SF: And you’re positive it was in the freezer?

CM: He told me it was in the freezer. He told

SF: He said it enhanced your sex life if you want to kiss and cuddle before, that’s?

CM: Yeah, something to that effect yeah.

TD: [x] Ecstasy is traditionally used for. You wouldn’t freeze it. That’s unusual.

SF: Any other drugs that …?

CM: He did not do drugs. Not, not since I’ve known him, I, he is, he shops at um Trader Joe’s and

SF: Are you saying people who shop at Trader Joe’s [x]?

CM: No, but he

SF: That’s ok I’m joking [laughing]

CM: He very much thinks, he’s, he’s been taking care of his health very very closely for as long as I’ve known him, he’s, he eats

SF: I remember you saying now that he had health problems

CM: Yeah he had health problems that, his health problems his mum thinks and I’m not sure I disagree, very well could have been stress, because of, cos Summer [x], um

SF: Just marital stress, nothing additional, no financial stress?

CM: I don’t think Joseph had any financial stress. Um he’s, he’s always been fine financially as far as I know, I think, I’ve never seen him not ok. Um.

SF: But no other like wheeling and dealing maybe, helping transport drugs?

CM: Joseph’s not the type. No. Joseph’s not the type. Um I’ve never, personally I’ve never done drugs I’ve never smoked never, I never drank, um

SF: Never drank?

CM: Never drank

SF: You’ve never had a beer?

CM: Well, I never drank to any extent, every once in a you know even now I think once every year or so I might, if somebody offers me a beer, if it’s really super cold I’ll go and drink half of it, or something, but um Joseph and I talked about it A LOT, and health a lot, because

SF: Because of your heart attack?

CM: Because of my heart attack and because of his problems, and he eats extremely well, he, he takes good care of himself, and he wouldn’t have anything, there’s no way, he would not have

TD: Do you believe it was drugs? Religion?

CM: No.

SF: Do you know where his doctor was and where he [x]?

CM: I do not. Uh but I do know he was seeing a holistic doctor, which is part of, you know, his well…

TD: Surfer, Marijuana [x]

SF: [x] Christianity

CM: No, I was referring that to his, he takes care of himself, and holistically I mean he, he always, always went to like holistic doctors and things like that.

TD: Somebody else had told me he lived in Laguna Beach? San Clemente…

CM: San Clemente.

TD: …that the lifestyle is surfing, marijuana,

CM: Yeah and that’s, that’s before me and that’s what I think he was, he was

SF: I think everybody [x] marijuana [x] [laughter]

CM: I tried it when I was 22 years old, that was the first time I tried Marijuana, was with my older brother, and we were out on a lake fishing, I got off the boat, I had to go home, I went to drive home and I drove up onto a kerb, and the next thing I remember I was sitting there on the kerb, I mean I just blacked out, that was the last time I ever, I was like I’m done with this, I mean it just I completely blacked out and it was sitting, my car was sitting up on top of the kerb and I had no idea how it got there, s’like, so I just, that was enough for me.

SF: Is there anyone who is important that you think would be really really I guess probably wise for us to talk to as soon as we can?

CM: Dan, yeah, I would talk to him,

TD: Web Dan?

CM: Web Dan.

SF: Anybody else?

CM: Have you talked to any of his soccer buddies? I don’t know any of their names, I know some of their first names that he’s mentioned, um his soccer buddies were always texting him and you know, always, um, I can’t think of anybody else. He didn’t, his soccer buddies, me, he never even really talked to his brother, except when his brother needed something, you know, the only time Mikey ever really called him was to ask him to borrow some money or

SF: What was their relationship [x]?

CM: It was alright, I mean Joseph got a little, was always a little tired of him, you know, but he was his brother. Um, Summer didn’t like him.

SF: Didn’t like Mikey? Because of the Heather thing…

CM: The Heather thing, and

SF: Do you know her?

CM: No, I never met Heather, I’ve met Jonah, I think I probably saw Heather one time when she dropped off Jonah in San Clemente but other than that no.

[x]

CM: What time do you guys start work?

SF: I start at 7 he starts at 6. We’ve been working non-stop.

[x]

CM: I’ve got some vitamin packs

TD: No I have those? [laughter]

CM: I’ve got some really really good ones.

SF: He’s just kidding. [x] sleep for a few days.

TD: I felt really good this morning but delayed [x].

SF: Yeah you’re going to be better tomorrow.

 

[Tortoise]

PART 16


CM: I actually I haven’t eaten anything I don’t think, I can’t remember I don’t think I’ve even eaten anything today so…

SF: Why? [x]

CM: No, this morning I was busy but then um once I got hold of you, started thinking about everything, kind of you know, put all this together, and I …just forgot.

TD: Speaking of which

CM: Yeah, I almost forgot, speaking of which, this….ok, this is an email that Joseph sent me on the 3rd, and this is one on the 2nd, I just printed the last couple of emails that he actually sent,

[x]

SF: Do I start at the bottom and go up? Or do I stop at the top and go down?

CM: Uh I don’t know.

SF: Ok. That says [A Melissa?] [x]

CM: It’s one of our clients.

SF: [reads email] “Do you have any carrier that can pick up from us tomorrow in order to [x] by next Tuesday or Monday or earlier so that, and then he wrote back I think [x]” And this is what…

CM: He forwarded that to me to let me know that we can get them this waterfall

[x]

CM: And this was only forwarded to me because I’m the one that it’s picked up from, so

SF: This is all before you saw him at Chick-fil-A?

CM: Right. Yeah, and this was an email from him on the 1st, yeah February 1st which was…..three days before the 4th and this is what we were going over at Chick-fil-A, this is one of the things, one of the main things we were going over, because um the Paul Mitchell job um 15% was $4,725, and $3,050 came to a total of 7,775, and then um the Saudi Arabia job with everything came to a total of 18,225, so that was, that was, that’s my part of those two projects, and we were going over these numbers, he had emailed me this on the 1st and we were going over these numbers along with um, …..what we were going to be giving um, oh yes, along with what we were going to be giving uh Metro Sheet Metal, so that was one of the things we were, we were meeting for, and so, but these were the last emails, the last few emails that I got from Joseph, I printed and if you put those with any other emails.

TD: And your overpaid amount is Chase paid 173?

CM: Right.

TD: What is that?

CM: Ok the overpaid amount is errrrr, he had paid me $173,225

TD: Over how long a period?

CM: That’s that whole uh year, ok

TD: Why is that on this email?

CM: We always go o, we, we go over the, our finances every couple of weeks, ok, ‘where are we? – do I owe you money? – do you owe me money?’ Um, and, th, this particular time I owed him money…

TD: Don’t you ever balance that out to a zero point and go – this is from the start of the company you’ve been paid 173,000?

CM: Pretty much, that’s, and you’ll see the, in everything that I gave you, yeah you’ll see in there it’s just a running total of all the, all the cheques he gives me, all of the everything and then it just we total it up every couple of weeks we go ‘how much do I owe you? Are you going to owe me? I owe you [x] thousand, how much do I owe you now? oh I owe you this much’, it goes anywhere from him owing me 15,000 to me owing him 15,000 it’s kind of

TD: Are you ahead or behind right now?

CM: Right now behind, well actually right now we’re pretty much even, because these two, these two projects [x] $173,000 is what he has paid me, $158,000 is what he owed me, before these two projects, came to I owed him $15,000, ok, with these two projects they totalled 26,000, so he was then owing me a little over 10,000. Somewhere almost 11,000. The only thing, we go back and forth that way, I mean it’s been

TD: So is this the topic of your conversation with

CM: that was part of the topic, that was part of the topic, topic, the major part of it was, the uh, designs and how we were actually going to, where we were going to put the electrical boxes, where we were going to put, how we were going to wire the lighting um uh just that was the majority of the meeting on the 4th, this was just um, it was a part of it. So I figured I’d, maybe, see where we, cos I figured you’d wanna know where Joseph and I were financially, and that pretty much shows it. That’s the, that’s the email from Joseph on the 1st. And then the, the running tab um, you can, you can, er matter of fact Dan has a copy of it, I mean you can see it anytime on uh, Joseph’s email, he has a, the same as I do, a link to the, we go to um, you know, it’s an online thing, it’s a link that pulls up that running tab with all of our

[x]

CM: Yeah, that’s my medical, um yeah this is a lot of the waterfalls and stuff, um this is Paul Mitchell, this is the kind of stuff we were going over that day, to the different um projects like Paul Mitchell has a broken uh broken pipe fountain [x] we’re doing for him, and that broken pipe fountain is extremely custom designed it has to look like a broken pipe and it’s running out and we were trying to figure out how to make that happen,

[x]

CM: But the problem with that is we’ve gotta um a lot of stuff, like say people, cos it’s in a public building, yeah it’s a nightmare. Um, [Denison?] is one of the waterfalls we were going over, I mean just this is just a lot of the stuff that we were going over at the time. Uh that’s the [terry counter?] um, we went over this because this particular waterfall got damaged in shipping and we were trying to figure out whether or not we should bring it back because it was only the light that got broken, the customer was saying that the, the um finish was rubbed off on the side. I didn’t see how it could be, but we were talking about that, and we decided to have it shipped back so we could repair it, matter of fact it just got back yesterday, um Joseph had it shipped back, and now, he had that shipped back….I believe from the time that I talked to him at Chick-fil-A…

TD: He arranged for

CM: He arranged this after I talked to him about it because we were

SF: Is there a way to find out when that was?

CM: ………………………….yes. Um, there’s going to be a shipping manifest, with the waterfall at the shop.

SF: [x]

TD: Why don’t you scan it in and email it to me.

CM: Scan it in?

TD: Or copy it? Do you have a…

CM: Yeah, actually there is a scanner thing.

TD: My email address is on the bottom of my business card. Actually anything, here’s what I want you to know, are you done with your questions? [x]. Anything that you think will help us find Joseph, find his family, lead us in the direction, emails, phone numbers, phone records, business contacts, around the 4th or after the 4th call me, email me, fax and whatever you need to do.

CM: Ok, I will.

TD: There’s a fax number on there, my email address is on there so if you scan them in or scan in any document and then just email it.

CM: Email it. Ok. Yeah I’m almost sure I can do that from

TD: [x]

CM: I think, I think the copy machine has a scanner, I’m pretty sure,

TD: And you can usually scan [x] you can scan a document into your own account [x] into that business and then from there you can attach it.

CM: I can just scan it into my documents

TD: Sure and then

CM: Attach. Yeah, yeah, I can do that, I, I’m not real adept at computers but I can do that far.

TD: And don’t be worried about sending me too much. I already have too much. I’ll filter out what’s unnecessary. Send it.

CM: I’ll send anything that I can think of.

TD: Ok.