CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

[JMarsh]

So you are saying somebody who was not Chase wrote out a Cheque to Chase?

Then Chase being set up obviously by a random Person then cashed a cheque he should have no idea about.


How does your logic tie this together?

The check writing has basically been admitted to by the defense. You get that right? The defense has not disputed that Chase wrote checks by way of Joey's QB's account-but only from the Custom account.

For those checks to be of any value, they have to be cashed, and the cashing of one of those checks occurred while Joey was still alive. Joey made no move to change any aspect of either the passwords for QB or alerted anyone at his bank to anything being wrong.

That's all we know.

Do we know if Chase stole money as the state contends, or if Joey gave Chase direction to write those checks? No. We may never know this for certain.

But where is the evidence that the check writing and the murders are related?

And Dan K apparently made much more money, after these murders than Chase did.

So if money is the motive...well then...

If money isn't the motive, where is there any proof that Chase had motive to kill Joey? Where is the proof that Joey was going to fire Chase? Where is the proof that Chase did anything more than make certain he was paid for work he'd done?

I'm talking proof. Not some story made up because the evidence doesn't support the theory we are married to. But PROOF. Evidence. Something that can be objectively verified.

 

[JMarsh]

My thought is that if we really care about the victims, if we really care about justice, we then have to care that objective, verifiable evidence is what leads us to our conclusions. Not some made up story. If speculation veers too far from what can be objectively verified, what use is it in solving a crime?

 

[missy1974]

There's a pretty simple explanation. If Merritt's phone is off or out of reach of a tower and goes to VM, of course there wouldn't be any tower data. It didn't connect to Merritt's phone. The caller's data would be stored in the tower near them and the routed to VM (a different phone number) which is not on Merritt's phone. Theyre stored on the phone company's servers.

His phone almost never recorded a tower for VM. Did you listen to the testimony? McGee took 15 minutes going through calls that rerouted to VM and almost all never had the tower info, and these were calls that had other calls sometimes within minutes of each other where one would but the VM call wouldn't show.

Boles on direct said that no tower info meant it was off/airplane mode/out of range. After cross, he wouldn't even commit to an answer without "conferring with AT&T". He was wrong about the Feb 4th calls.

 

[Tortoise]

did you hear the testimony yesterday? Was she specifically asked about the 6th of February 2010? I really don't recall. I don't know if Rodriquez just sat down at that point.

I wonder if I could recall when specifically my brother came to my house 4 years after the fact... maybe.

ETA: Or even if I saw my brother 4 years ago on a specific day! lol

You don't think it's Maline who has the task of alibiing his client for the 6th? I think if I was Merritt I'd fire him.

 

[Meemaw12]

Hey - it took me from last night & this morning - about 560 plus posts - to catch up with you all. Some of these quotes are from the previous thread.



That is because Day 26 will be on Monday, March 4th.... I believe it is Day 25 that you are looking for.



All of Tortoise's post has convinced me of his guilt....




Okay - made me look this up. Per my Timeline - there were a total of 14 calls between them on 2/4. Joey called/texted CM 10 times; CM to Joey 4 times.

link: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mcstay-family-comprehensive-timeline.285143/



Actually he called Union bank twice at about noon after getting into QB. And then again at 1pm.
At 12:15pm Joey calls Bank/accountant, after that 2 calls to CM (12:28pm 6 min & 12:52pm 1 min). After the calls to CM he calls Union bank at 1pm. At 1:01pm Joey calls or texts CM - 1 min. Then nothing until 3:03pm to CM. See link above for info.

Hi Niner

I got the number of calls from this link

At .50 seconds.

Just wanted to include the link so no one would think I made it up. Sorry I should have checked here first for accuracy.

At any rate, with the lunch meeting and 14 calls that still makes me think a lot was going on between JM and CM on 2/4 a Thursday. Answered or unanswered calls still a lot.

Thanks for the correction.

IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Do we know if Chase stole money as the state contends, or if Joey gave Chase direction to write those checks? No. We may never know this for certain.

You keep incorrectly asserting this but actually we do know it.

The forged signature is prima facie proof that Joey did not consent. That is why we have banking law that signatures are required on cheques as proof to all the world of a legal instruction to pay from the account holders account. If the signature is not present, then the account holder did not consent

If the defence wants to contend otherwise, the person who forged the signature must testify.

 

[missy1974]

Yes

This is one of the issues with passage of time. As I understand it, actual ping data (i.e phone shaking hands with towers) is all lost.

We are only getting tower info when a call actually connected as that is stored.

If police had been able to get warrants sooner, we might have been able to piece together movement as the phone moved between towers - not just from calls.

That is not how I understand it at all. You need to listen to Boles testimony. Different companies kept different records. Boles was wrong on this one.

 

[missy1974]

He's just so down on his luck.

A family murdered on February 4th
A family buried in the desert.
February 6th, only two days later, a day later on the defense's version, over 6 phone pings in about 3 hours off 4 different towers in and around the desert, cancelling out any chance that he could have been over 30 miles away.
He thought he was calling Joey but his memory's so bad he must have just forgotten by Monday that he didn't call his missing best buddy once.
His sister in Oro Grande said he wasn't at her house in five years.

I say this to all fence-sitters and those who don't believe he is guilty, not specifically JMarsh, where is the honesty in making excuses, such as the 'flyer' tower-hits, for this incriminating evidence?

The "flyer" hits had nothing to do with the 6th, it was to do with his 9:32pm call on the 4th, listen to Boles testimony. When his phone didn't record a tower when it went to VM, it is just a call that went to VM, it did not mean his phone was off/in airplane mode/out of range... it was not off the network, or "off the grid".

Again Boles on re-direct:

All of those went to vm's … don't show cell tower information. What does that indicate to you based on your training? As I stated on direct, based on my training, that the phone could be off the network, off, on airplane mode, however, based on cross examination, I would like to confer with AT&T to give a more accurate answer.

 

[Tortoise]

The "flyer" hits had nothing to do with the 6th, it was to do with his 9:32pm call on the 4th, listen to Boles testimony. When his phone didn't record a tower when it went to VM, it is just a call that went to VM, it did not mean his phone was off/in airplane mode/out of range... it was not off the network, or "off the grid".

Again Boles on re-direct:

All of those went to vm's … don't show cell tower information. What does that indicate to you based on your training? As I stated on direct, based on my training, that the phone could be off the network, off, on airplane mode, however, based on cross examination, I would like to confer with AT&T to give a more accurate answer.

You should actually be correcting JMarsh's post because that is what I was replying to. JMarsh's post was about being at the grave site and that is what I was disputing.

 

[mrjitty]

The record I have goes back three months. Joseph never called the bank before that I recall. I will recheck but I'm almost positive this was not a common practice.

Just another strange coincidence

 

[Mony Mony]

Do CM reflect a pattern of incoming calls going straight to VM? If so, that would give more credibility to the "bad reception" explanation.

Or, was the 4th the first time calls went straight to VM? That would give more credibility to the "going off the grid" theory.

IMO, the two timed felon felon purposely went off the grid on that fateful day.

 

[missy1974]

So You admit that Chase wrote a cheque in the home of the Mcstays on the night they were killed and then deleted it and then wrote out the same cheque the following day and cashed that cheque and you don’t find that incriminating at all?


By any chance are you related to the defendant ?

The defense has stated that they believe that both Chase and Joey were doing this in the Custom QB's account, so they are saying it was Joey doing it on the night of the 4th. I believe (found it) it was in Det. Hanke's testimony where they kind of laid that out. Something was done on QB's... Joey called Chase. Something was done on QB's... Chase called Joey, and so on. It's not a theory that JMarsh is pulling out of their a$$, it comes from testimony and what the defense has been saying IMO


Here is from my notes from Hanke's testimony:

Feb 1st

QB cheques edited 12:34 ended at 12:52

Merritt phone records - Joey calling CM 9min 56sec….. 11 minutes after the QB's activity. 1;03pm


Feb 2nd:

11:27am cheque added

11:29am cheque added

both deleted at 11:37


Merritt calling Joey - 10:56am, multiple calls for insignificant amounts of time, seconds.

Then called at 11:46am, Merritt to Joey 3min 24seconds…. 9 minutes after the last cheque was adjusted.

12:04pm another call, merritt to joey over 13 minutes.


Feb 4th

cheque added 7:59, deleted at 8:05

Joey calls Merritt at 8:28pm 23 minutes after cheque was deleted.


Feb 5th

first cheque added at 12:06pm last one deleted 12:39pm sign out at 12:40

Call - 10:59am Chase to Joey. 55 seconds.

Call - 12:49 pm Chase to Joey 53 seconds


Feb 8th

Cheque added at 2:20pm deleted at 2:25pm

Call - Chase to Joey 1:55pm 1 min 12 seconds. 25 minutes before the cheque was added.

Calls to QB's a little after 3pm. 1 hour 47 minute phone call to QB's - after that another call from Merritt to Joey (no time given)

 

[missy1974]

You don't think it's Maline who has the task of alibiing his client for the 6th? I think if I was Merritt I'd fire him.

Huh? what does that have to do with post you replied to? Not following....

 

[Tortoise]

Huh? what does that have to do with post you replied to? Not following....

You said "Was she specifically asked about the 6th of February 2010? I really don't recall. I don't know if Rodriquez just sat down at that point."

 

[mrjitty]

That is not how I understand it at all. You need to listen to Boles testimony. Different companies kept different records. Boles was wrong on this one.

As i understand it, we don't have handshake data.

So for example, customer turns on phone, phone looks to tower and registers on tower. At that time for example, customer then receives notifications of voice mails. Or an inbound call 10 mins later can reach the customer. That handshake is logged. But we don't have them.

The handshake is necessary in order for the network to successfully route your data and voice mails and inbound calls to you.

Otherwise the network can only look for your phone at the last tower you were logged on to

This system is key with travel. So for instance if you drive for an hour on a motorway, you will change towers, Your phone does this automatically, because it can see the stronger tower as you move away from the first tower.

As far as I can see, none of this data is in the records. We only see tower connections relating to calls and messages.

For instance, when Joey's phone was switched off for the last time, it should have said goodbye to the tower it was logged on to.

This would be very important in terms of proving Joey did not turn on his phone on the 5th

I guess it really does not matter why we don't have it.

 

[asyousay]

I would like to add that I find it intriguing that Chase starts to write cheques out and within days the family are Murdered.

It’s funny how they worked together for years and Chase never got to write his own cheques from Joey and when he finally does start to do it the family are killed.

That’s one hell of a coincidence!!!

 

[mrjitty]

Also the fact that it's a death penalty case sets the bar much higher. Many would oppose his conviction even if he were caught red handed.

That is what we observed with the pistorius case.

Even when you get caught with the gun, the body, and the brains on the wall, with no coherent explanation, people still want more evidence

 

[missy1974]

The "flyer" hits had nothing to do with the 6th, it was to do with his 9:32pm call on the 4th, listen to Boles testimony. When his phone didn't record a tower when it went to VM, it is just a call that went to VM, it did not mean his phone was off/in airplane mode/out of range... it was not off the network, or "off the grid".

Again Boles on re-direct:

All of those went to vm's … don't show cell tower information. What does that indicate to you based on your training? As I stated on direct, based on my training, that the phone could be off the network, off, on airplane mode, however, based on cross examination, I would like to confer with AT&T to give a more accurate answer.

I was responding to this particular part of your post:

I say this to all fence-sitters and those who don't believe he is guilty, not specifically JMarsh, where is the honesty in making excuses, such as the 'flyer' tower-hits, for this incriminating evidence?

I personally don't think they are going to say they were "flyers". I *think* this is where Bennett comes in....

I have listened to Boles testimony, very intently because without maps, it was pretty hard to follow, but if we are to believe anything that Boles said, he was not "stationary" during those Victorville area hits, I have notes, maybe I can put something coherent together later. So how is his cell phone moving and burying bodies? I haven't decided yet just how much weight should be put on Boles testimony to be honest because of the errors. JMO

 

[Longtimenoc]

Was it overkill, though? Statistically, per the most recent FBI report, we actually are more likely to be killed by a stranger, than someone we know.

And to me, the blows seemed in keeping with simply making certain someone is dead. The method of killing is not uncommon if the killer doesn't want the weapon to link back to him/her. That hammer in the grave, for all we know, was a red herring.

Of course, I can't know for certain. I wasn't there. But, I think arguments could be made either way. And I just don't see where this remarkable rage in Chase was supposed to have come from.

In addition, we don't have any evidence that Chase had this kind of rage, ever. There are plenty of records of him involved with theft, but not one, where he was involved in a bar brawl, incidence of domestic violence, or that he had a short temper even.

Where is the evidence of Chase being a particularly rageful person, or that he ever used violence to resolve an issue?

The hammer in the grave a red herring? Well then what do you suppose caused those injuries? An industrial machine accident?

 

[mrjitty]

I would like to add that I find it intriguing that Chase starts to write cheques out and within days the family are Murdered.

It’s funny how they worked together for years and Chase never got to write his own cheques from Joey and when he finally does start to do it the family are killed.

That’s one hell of a coincidence!!!

If only he hadn't turned his phone off while they were being murdered!

So much bad luck!