CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

[mrjitty]

You keep saying his pre-trial statements like you have heard/read them all. We have not heard them all .... I do not expect him to testify, I don't think anyone does. But if they play that 8 hour long interview, it will be interesting to see what is said. IF he has said anything in relation to the cheques, I wouldn't expect the prosecution to play or show those statements, would you????

So you agree right now - there is no such evidence before the court?

This is what i meant by 99% websleuths. It is a theory advanced by one poster, that does not exist in evidence at this stage.

So where does this idea come from?

I am quite suspicious I must say.

 

[missy1974]

Where in the trial was this specifically mentioned, that he had permission? I will go back and listen. I haven’t heard it.

It is not in any "specific" testimony, but if you are listening, and you have been watching, you can see where the defense is going with the QB's thing. Like you picking up on the signature thing... piece it all together.

 

[missy1974]

By whom, and when were they deleted?

My voicemails will stay on my phone forever for both cell, and landline unless I delete them.

One of our dear friends passed away in 2015, and I have never deleted her last voicemail. It's still there, and it will be until I delete it...which will be never of course.

I'm not sure if you are asking me who deleted them or when? or if you are asking me for testimony about it lol

Dugal testified about that, I also believe Smith did at some point. No clue by who and/or when, and I don't think LE looked any further to see if they could find that out.

 

[citygirl]

Good question! I wonder if anyone looked for that? I wonder if he had EVER called Summer? Didn't they have a house phone as well? Did Chase EVER call that number? I don't mean in Feb 10, but ever? Did the family?

I think the only people that left VMs were Mrs. McStay and Mikey...on Summer's phone? Could be mis-remembering.

 

[mrjitty]

It is not in any "specific" testimony, but if you are listening, and you have been watching, you can see where the defense is going with the QB's thing. Like you picking up on the signature thing... piece it all together.

So in other words its just speculative stuff Maline and McGee have said in X - but not evidence.

I will buy you a crisp french white if there is ever any direct evidence of this alternative account system.

 

[missy1974]

I guess I am old fashioned about evidential burden

But if the defence wants to claim Joey presigned blanks, gave chase 76 blanks, told him to delete cheques, asked him to delete quickbooks, then the evidential burden is upon the defence to establish an evidential basis for it.

Meanwhile the following has been shown

1. The signatures after 4 feb were different
2. Joey died at the lastest morning 5 feb so never signed any more cheques after that
3. Chase said he was given signed cheques on 4 feb
4. QB evidence proves chase created the same after 4 feb

So quite simply, at this point in the trial, there is no evidence of this strange accounting system

I have to go back to his interview from the 17th to see what specifically he said about those cheques because I have read many versions of what he said, signed cheques, filled out cheques, etc. LOL The last I recall is Smith saying very specifically that he "received cheques".... it was after a question from McGee asking if Merritt admitted to writing those cheques in the Feb 17th interview.

 

[missy1974]

I think the only people that left VMs were Mrs. McStay and Mikey...on Summer's phone? Could be mis-remembering.

I don't know if they were the only one's, but Dugal mentions them specifically... saying that he heard VM's that he would expect to hear from them, or something like that. But knowing that those messages weren't deleted, it would be reasonable to assume that Joey's shouldn't have been either. Dugal concluded that they were 'deleted' IMO.

 

[Bernina]

Bernina... do you know... would Chase have had to have an account there as well? Would he have had to do a background check if it was a business account?

NO. And NO.
In one LLC, we had 2 employees with prior drug convictions. After 2 years of employment, random drug tests, and promoting them to crew bosses, they were added as signers to our "Installation" account. That account had a max of $500 per check. We did our background checks before they were hired. The bank has no reason to do a background check, why would they?
Neither had accounts with our bank, "Stockmans", which at the time was more hands on than the larger banks like Wells Fargo or Bank of America. Stockmans would cash their paycheck and per dium checks with no charges.

 

[Mony Mony]

It is not in any "specific" testimony, but if you are listening, and you have been watching, you can see where the defense is going with the QB's thing. Like you picking up on the signature thing... piece it all together.

I am listening and watching. I guess I am “piecing” something else together.....

 

[missy1974]

So you agree right now - there is no such evidence before the court?

This is what i meant by 99% websleuths. It is a theory advanced by one poster, that does not exist in evidence at this stage.

So where does this idea come from?

I am quite suspicious I must say.

I don't think I have ever said that there is evidence, I have said that I can see where they are going with it, based on the questions/answers in the testimony.

Suspicious of what??? LOL If you go outside of the WS's bubble, there is more than 1 person saying this. I am not sure that I 100% agree with it, and I don't know that there is anything that the defense can do to show this is what was happening, but we have not seen their side of the case yet.

 

[geevee]

Chase only used Joey's desktop computer one time. That was on Feb 4th.

On the 5th, he used another computer, one of his own or Cathy's. But he printed the checks and cashed them himself.
And he BACKDATED the checks, to say Feb 4th.


He only used Joey's computer that one time. [that we know of now]
But he had the password, to the QuickBook program. So he didnt have to use it at Joey's house.

I can't help but wonder why he backdated the checks on the 5th to the 4th - did he expect the bodies would be found shortly and LE would know they had all been killed on the 4th?

Did he not plan to bury them until the 5th, then go out there that night, dig the graves and then take them all there on the 6th? Where oh where did he keep the bodies between the 4th and the 6th?

Decomp smell would have pervaded the house if he'd just left them there so it must have been elsewhere, but why on the 5th did he think there was evidence that the family was killed on the 4th, necessitating him to backdate the checks?

 

[mrjitty]

I have to go back to his interview from the 17th to see what specifically he said about those cheques because I have read many versions of what he said, signed cheques, filled out cheques, etc. LOL The last I recall is Smith saying very specifically that he "received cheques".... it was after a question from McGee asking if Merritt admitted to writing those cheques in the Feb 17th interview.

OK

But you can understand that I am currently comfortable in my position?

There is no evidence at trial, to date, of an alternative accounting system.

Rather Chase himself said he was given the cheques by Joey on the 4th. And we know this was a lie. He printed them on the 5th.

So you guys can speculate any kind of other arrangements here on WS - but personally, I will await actual evidence from the defence.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree - it doesn't make sense to me either! But I don't really see why, even if he had killed the family on the 4th, he would have any reason to backdate a check to the 4th when he printed it the next day. At that point no-one knew they were dead and what difference would it have made if he had left it dated 5th? Who would know if he hadn't backdated it? He could have just said that he picked it up from Joey on 5th.

As soon as police became aware that Joey and his family were missing, however long that took, one week or two, they would get Joey's and Summer's cell phone records and see that their phones went off the network early evening on the 4th and never connected again.

When they would look at Joey's bank records they would see he issued cheques on the 5th and the 8th (if they weren't backdated) but there were no other signs he was alive after the 4th. He wasn't answering or making business calls or emails or personal calls, he hadn't been seen by anyone and neither had his wife and she'd had no interactions with anyone either, but Joey was supposedly still writing cheques that got into Chase's hands.

Chase creating cheques from Joey's bank account on the 5th and the 8th BACKDATED to the 4th is prima facie evidence that he knew already by the 5th that the date would be discovered and that Joey wasn't alive and writing cheques himself on the 5th or the 8th.

At that early stage Chase never said he was writing cheques himself, he made out Joey gave them to him on the 4th, and he didn't say they were blanks. This version that he wrote them himself with Joey's permission was developed later to answer to the evidence, that's what guilty parties do with prior statements that don't fit the evidence, it's called tailoring.

MOO

 

[A lucas]

I don't know if they were the only one's, but Dugal mentions them specifically... saying that he heard VM's that he would expect to hear from them, or something like that. But knowing that those messages weren't deleted, it would be reasonable to assume that Joey's shouldn't have been either. Dugal concluded that they were 'deleted' IMO.

There must have been something incriminating on the VMs for someone (the killer) to manually delete the messages eg plans to meet up that day/arguments? Wonder how they had the password for Joey’s VM. Maybe ...

1) someone had seen Joey enter VM password before
2) Joey had one of those easily guessed passwords like 1234
3) the injuries to Joey’s leg and rib could have been acquired whilst being coerced to provide said password?

JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think I have ever said that there is evidence, I have said that I can see where they are going with it, based on the questions/answers in the testimony.

Suspicious of what??? LOL If you go outside of the WS's bubble, there is more than 1 person saying this. I am not sure that I 100% agree with it, and I don't know that there is anything that the defense can do to show this is what was happening, but we have not seen their side of the case yet.

So why do you possibly agree with it, when there is no evidence for it?

 

[mrjitty]

As soon as police became aware that Joey and his family were missing, however long that took, one week or two, they would get Joey's and Summer's cell phone records and see that their phones went off the network early evening on the 4th and never connected again.

When they would look at Joey's bank records they would see he issued cheques on the 5th and the 8th (if they weren't backdated) but there were no other signs he was alive after the 4th. He wasn't answering or making business calls or emails or personal calls, he hadn't been seen by anyone and neither had his wife and she'd had no interactions with anyone either, but Joey was supposedly still writing cheques that got into Chase's hands.

Chase creating cheques from Joey's bank account on the 5th and the 8th BACKDATED to the 4th is prima facie evidence that he knew already by the 5th that the date would be discovered and that Joey wasn't alive and writing cheques himself on the 5th or the 8th.

At that early stage Chase never said he was writing cheques himself, he made out Joey gave them to him on the 4th, and he didn't say they were blanks. This version that he wrote them himself with Joey's permission was developed later to answer to the evidence, that's what guilty parties do with prior statements that don't fit the evidence, it's called tailoring.

MOO

This is why Chase is guilty of murder in 4 paragraphs.

 

[missy1974]

So in other words its just speculative stuff Maline and McGee have said in X - but not evidence.

I will buy you a crisp french white if there is ever any direct evidence of this alternative account system.

I have no clue what a crisp french white is lmao

Like I have said MANY MANY MANY times @mrjitty , this is what I am observing, I never said they are proving it. I don't know how else to say this to you at this point? We are in a discussion forum... I am choosing to discuss this case, as a whole, not just the prosecutions narrative. There are many things that the prosecution hasn't proved either, it is all circumstantial evidence, right? WHEN the defense gets their turn, I'm assuming they will also present circumstantial evidence. I am anxiously waiting to see what they got, to see if they can back up anything they have been implying in the last 8 weeks, even if circumstantial. All JMO

 

[mrjitty]

As soon as police became aware that Joey and his family were missing, however long that took, one week or two, they would get Joey's and Summer's cell phone records and see that their phones went off the network early evening on the 4th and never connected again.

When they would look at Joey's bank records they would see he issued cheques on the 5th and the 8th (if they weren't backdated) but there were no other signs he was alive after the 4th. He wasn't answering or making business calls or emails or personal calls, he hadn't been seen by anyone and neither had his wife and she'd had no interactions with anyone either, but Joey was supposedly still writing cheques that got into Chase's hands.

Chase creating cheques from Joey's bank account on the 5th and the 8th BACKDATED to the 4th is prima facie evidence that he knew already by the 5th that the date would be discovered and that Joey wasn't alive and writing cheques himself on the 5th or the 8th.

At that early stage Chase never said he was writing cheques himself, he made out Joey gave them to him on the 4th, and he didn't say they were blanks. This version that he wrote them himself with Joey's permission was developed later to answer to the evidence, that's what guilty parties do with prior statements that don't fit the evidence, it's called tailoring.

MOO

Actually I can add one more point to this.

The cheque he wrote on the 2nd, he did not backdate to a day he saw Joey

That is a key change in behaviour vs the 5th

 

[missy1974]

NO. And NO.
In one LLC, we had 2 employees with prior drug convictions. After 2 years of employment, random drug tests, and promoting them to crew bosses, they were added as signers to our "Installation" account. That account had a max of $500 per check. We did our background checks before they were hired. The bank has no reason to do a background check, why would they?
Neither had accounts with our bank, "Stockmans", which at the time was more hands on than the larger banks like Wells Fargo or Bank of America. Stockmans would cash their paycheck and per dium checks with no charges.

Ok, thanks! I only have experience with a non-profit account, where background checks and credit checks are required before being placed on an account as a signee.

 

[missy1974]

I am listening and watching. I guess I am “piecing” something else together.....

I meant piecing together what the defense narrative is going to be.... not piecing together what happened... just be clear