CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Force Ten]

Anyone remember if Mike was subject to recall?

 

[missy1974]

Yes perps will go where they are familiar because they know what to expect. Victorville, San Ysidro, Casinos along the 15 fwy......

Is there evidence that he went down to the border more than in Jan 2009?

 

[missy1974]

Anyone remember if Mike was subject to recall?

I think all the witnesses have been. But yes he was.

 

[InspectorGadget]

BBM: A million and one, actually?

I haven't spent a lot of time here participating in detailed discussion. However, I've been following along pretty assiduously, and have read/watched some of the trial, albeit not all. I always look at the points folks here bring up regarding things seen as problems with the State's case, because I do think there are some fabulous minds at work here.

Unfortunately, in the end I invariably come away thinking that the "defenders of the defense team" are straining at gnats. There are many details which we'll never know and can only speculate about, but if one steps back and goes through the key points of the case, there is a definite pattern, in my estimation. The more we talk and read and discuss and watch, the more the case against CM solidifies for me.

One significant change in my opinion since the start of the trial-phase of this case has been that I initially was of the mind that CM became enraged with Joey at the "Chik-fil-A meeting", and drove out to the house afterward and murdered them all. What fits most of all to me now, though, is that this "thing" had been building in Chase for a while, and was driven by jealousy, greed, financial straits, etc. He knew, I think, by the 1st that he was going to do away with them.

I am also inclined to think he was poisoning Joey. Isn't he the only one who mentioned poisoning? The only way this makes sense is if he thought the bodies might be discovered, and found to have been poisoned, he'd already laid the groundwork for Summer as having done it. Otherwise -bizarro, and totally out of left field.

Of course, I'll keep reading/watching, and am always open to changing my opinion! Just know that all the data analysis, etc. isn't necessarily disregarded by those who don't actively discuss it. Some of us are more oriented to "big pictures" and theory, while others excel at analysis. While we can both appreciate each others' work, we often post in our own dominions, so to speak.

Sorry for the long-winded post. (And I haven't even started the wine yet.)

Good point about possible poisoning . . .

 

[InspectorGadget]

The police state comment was initiated by InspectorGadget, replying to smr. I was addressing the ideology and dissemination of a police state as exemplified by InspectorGadget. Perhaps I should have announced OT. Hopefully, this clarifies the confusion.

Apologies for OT post, which has been deleted by mods.

 

[Alisajo]

Yes perps will go where they are familiar because they know what to expect. Victorville, San Ysidro, Casinos along the 15 fwy......

IIRC, CM lived at Rancho Cucamonga I-15 runs through it.
JM's house was approx. 2 miles from I-15, Avocado Vista Ln, Lake Rancho Viejo.

 

[Alisajo]

Can anyone tell me why it is stated the Mcstay's lived at Fallbrook which is 10 miles from their home at Advocado Vista Ln, Lake Rancho Viejo???, IIRC.

 

[wary]

Can anyone tell me why it is stated the Mcstay's lived at Fallbrook which is 10 miles from their home at Advocado Vista Ln, Lake Rancho Viejo???, IIRC.

Their mailing address was Fallbrook. Fallbrook is not an incorporated city. It’s an unincorporated area of San Diego County with rather sprawling boundaries.

 

[katydid23]

I don't see how the items from the house being found in the graves implicates CM. The check attempt comes from data retrieved from the desktop computer however, not until after it was removed from the house by MM and then latter retrieved from him be LE.

I don't think that MM removed the desktop. I believe it said that he removed the laptop.



CNN.com - Transcripts

KAYE: Mike McStay went in and took the video card out of laptop computer and brought home the laptop computer.

RAMOS: Right.

KAYE: How frustrating is that for you?

RAMOS: If it isn't an obvious murder, murder investigation from the (inaudible) then things like that are going to occur.

KAYE: Things that could make proving Chase Merritt's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt challenging.

And how will they show that Chase, a close family and friend had motive strong enough to kill two little boys in cold blood.

WATSON: I mean just unthinkable that anybody could hurt two children like that and especially being a mom myself.

KAYE: Did it ever into who you suspected?

WATSON: The only thing I could think is that perhaps the two children knew the killer and that's why they have to be killed as well.

 

[katydid23]

The problem with the computer being removed is LE has no idea what was done with it while it was in the possession of others.

The desktop was never removed. Repeat, the desktop was never taken from the home.


KAYE: Mike McStay went in and took the video card out of laptop computer and brought home the laptop computer.


RAMOS: Right.

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[katydid23]

I believe data was retrieved from the computer indicating a check was made online and then deleted but never printed. However the data retrived, IMO, can't be relied upon because the computer had been been in the possession of others and may have been tampered with.

NOPE. That ^^^is incorrect and it is important to get that fact straightened out.

The desktop never left the home, it was there laptop that was taken and then returned.

So does that make you have more confidence in the data that was relieved now?

 

[katydid23]

I believe there's some confusion, perhaps missy can straighten it out, she always seem to know what's going on.

Missy can correct me if this is incorrect...

here is timeline info on the checks created on the 4th and 5th of Feb:

The Case in Chief

Feb 4th, 2010:

-7:59 pm someone from inside the McStay residence creates a check on Joseph’s desktop computer. This check is on the “Custom” account. It is made out to “charles merritt” in the amount of $4,000. Ref. Paul Mitchell.

-8:05 pm the “Paul Mitchell” check is deleted. Never printed. Never cashed.

-8:28 pm a call from Joseph McStay’s cell to Chase Merritt’s is made, but not picked up by Chase.

-9:32 pm Chase’s cell hits a tower in Mira Loma.


Feb 5th:

It has not been made public exactly what Chase Merritt was doing this day, other than at 12:06 pm Joseph McStay’s Online QuickBook Intuit account “Custom” is accessed once again from a computer or device NOT within the McStay residence.




(As of the preliminary hearing it is not proven that Chase initiated these transactions, but it seems reasonable to assume so.)

Numerous checks are generated Feb 5, 2010:

-The first check is generated at 12:06 pm, is made out to “charlesmerritt”. Ref. “paul mitchell”, all lower case. (Though the amount differs from the previous night (an additional $500 is added bringing the final amount to $4,500), it is the same in every other regard.) The preliminary hearing is sketchy in regard to the specifics of this check. At some point, the check is altered and backdated to reflect a February 4, 2010, creation date.(The prelim reads as if this happens after the check was printed, but it seems more logical that the check was backdated prior to being printed.)

-The Paul Mitchell check for $4,500 is later deleted from the QuickBooks ledger, however, it is cashed by Charles Merritt at Union Bank.


-An additional vendor is added this day: “metro sheet metal” –all lower case. (“Metro Sheet Metal” already exists as a vendor in the Contact account, only it is listed in that account with capitalization “Metro Sheet Metal”. )

-Two checks are written to this new vendor: One for $1,650 the other for $250.

-These two checks for Metro Sheet Metal were backdated to February 4, 2010 and printed, it is unclear from the prelim-hearing transcript if they were deleted from the ledger.

-Checks also written on this day and backdated to February 4, and deleted from the ledger from Joseph McStay’s QuickBook Intuit account, are for vendor “charlesmerritt”.

-One check is for $6,505 the other for $2,350.

It is unclear what happens to the check for $6,505, but the check for $2,350 is deposited into Chase Merritt’s brand new Bank of America account.

IN CONCLUSION:

On February 5, 2010 five checks for a total of $15,255 are created, all of which are backdated to February 4, 2010. Of those checks $4,500 was cashed by Chase, $2,350 was deposited into Chase’s Bank of America account. The two checks made out to “metro sheet metal” in the total amount of $1,900 were eventually delivered to that company personally by Chase and later deposited by the company. (It is uncertain what happened to the check for $6,505.)

-Three calls originate from Chase Merritt’s cell made to Joseph McStay’s cell phone on this Friday. No calls are made from the McStay residence, or from either Summer or Joseph McStay’s personal cell phones.

All contact with the McStay family has ceased since the previous night.

 

[katydid23]

"Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted"
If the above is your interpretation of my comment, that was not my intent. My concern is someone, possibly DK, had accesses to the computer after it was taken from JM house and before LE retrieved it. The data retrieved by LE may have been manipulated durning the interval it was missing.

The desktop was never taken so DK did not create these checks from the desktop.

 

[katydid23]

The desktop computer was also taken.

do you have a link for that. I have never seen that in any transcript or interview or article.

 

[katydid23]

I’ll work it backwards perhaps that will help you understand. CM cashes the check, I believe that has been established. Even if it was CM that printed the cashed check from HIS home computer on Feb 5th, how does that put CM in JM home on the night of the 4th? The evidence supporting such a theory came from JM’s desktop computer which has no established chain of custody. DK may have gained access to the home computer along with having access to the QB’s server.

“Or did someone(Mike/DK) produce the one check by pure coincidence not knowing Chase was going to himself print the other check?”

Your comment above suggest to me that you’re fixated on events occurring in a timeline moving sequential forward. With computers that is not necessarily the case.

Why would Mike or DK write a check out to Chase?

 

[katydid23]

"Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted"
If the above is your interpretation of my comment, that was not my intent. My concern is someone, possibly DK, had accesses to the computer after it was taken from JM house and before LE retrieved it. The data retrieved by LE may have been manipulated durning the interval it was missing.

Which scenario is more likely?

Chase Merritt, a career criminal, with a heavy gambling addiction, logs onto that computer on the 4th, deletes it because he realizes it is too incriminating, but then sits down to his own device and creates and cashes those checks on the 5th...?

OR...someone steals the desktop, and then after the murders, they hack into Intuit and create a false entry, somehow, and they create a check to Chase merritt, then delete it. And then coincidentally Chase creates the same checks the next day and cashes some. ?

Which one will the jury believe?

 

[Tortoise]

DK said vendors, including Chase, had access to echecks and credit cards they used for supplies and materials.

Mica do we know if Dan had knowledge of this prior to February 4th?

Because it sounds rather like what Chase told the detectives on Feb 17th, that Joey gave him his credit card number to buy a new version of QuickBooks. Do you think Chase could have said the same thing to Dan so that he would repeat it and it would corroborate his version?

 

[Tortoise]

Anyone remember if Mike was subject to recall?

He was.

44.57 timestamp in video

 

[Tortoise]

Which scenario is more likely?

Chase Merritt, a career criminal, with a heavy gambling addiction, logs onto that computer on the 4th, deletes it because he realizes it is too incriminating, but then sits down to his own device and creates and cashes those checks on the 5th...?

OR...someone steals the desktop, and then after the murders, they hack into Intuit and create a false entry, somehow, and they create a check to Chase merritt, then delete it. And then coincidentally Chase creates the same checks the next day and cashes some. ?

Which one will the jury believe?

BBM And deletes all prior and subsequent cheques too, which Joey had never done.

Some people are overlooking the prior cheques created and deleted on the 1st and the 2nd, and the cashed cheque on the 2nd, which is the blueprint for the post murder cheque writing on the 4th, 5th and 8th.

So now we have -

the desktop being backdated (overlooking that Mikey only took the laptop), to add a cheque created and deleted on the 4th,
in the exact blueprint of the cheque created and deleted on a non-McStay computer and CASHED by Chase on the 2nd,
a failed print job at the house also to backdate,
the compromising of Intuit's servers (leaving no audit trail),
Chase creating cheques in the same blueprint again on the 5th and the 8th on a non-McStay computer
AND Chase being the one who calls to get the QuickBooks deleted from their servers on the 9th because Joey wanted to hide his wealth from....Summer.

Ok then. Pretzel anyone? You'll have to hurry because the bag's nearly empty.

 

[katydid23]

BBM And deletes all prior and subsequent cheques too, which Joey had never done.

Some people are overlooking the prior cheques created and deleted on the 1st and the 2nd, and the cashed cheque on the 2nd, which is the blueprint for the post murder cheque writing on the 4th, 5th and 8th.

So now we have -

the desktop being backdated (overlooking that Mikey only took the laptop), to add a cheque created and deleted on the 4th,
in the exact blueprint of the cheque created and deleted on a non-McStay computer and CASHED by Chase on the 2nd,
a failed print job at the house also to backdate,
the compromising of Intuit's servers (leaving no audit trail),
Chase creating cheques in the same blueprint again on the 5th and the 8th on a non-McStay computer
AND Chase being the one who calls to get the QuickBooks deleted from their servers on the 9th because Joey wanted to hide his wealth from....Summer.

Ok then. Pretzel anyone? You'll have to hurry because the bag's nearly empty.

human pretzel...