CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[itsbrookie]

I guess empathy is also a nonstarter?

Well, by nature I am an empathetic and forgiving person. So if his innocence was 100% proven then, yes, obviously there would be some empathy there. But in comparison to what the McStay family endured, him having to prove his innocence is nothing. So I'd still reserve the majority of my empathy in this situation for them. Empathy for them that I don't feel Chase encompasses.

That being said, I should reiterate that I believe he is guilty.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

How about OJ?

No, not really.

 

[katydid23]

Geez, the poor guy can’t get a break. If he reads the comments here his feelings are going to be hurt.

Have you read any of the comments by clients that his Design company RIPPED OFF? He literally stole from well meaning people who gave him big down payments for his fountains. He is a , in my opinion. Who cares if his feelings are hurt?

 

[itsbrookie]

Have you read any of the comments by clients that his Design company RIPPED OFF? He literally stole from well meaning people who gave him big down payments for his fountains. He is a , in my opinion. Who cares if his feelings are hurt?

Exactly how I feel Katy. Of course I wouldn't want the wrong person to go away for this, but I don't have a lot of love in my heart for Chase.

 

[A lucas]

Just replying to a post in the previous thread. They did test the back of CM’s truck and it showed it had been bleached. Who the frig does that?

Suspected beach was also found on SM’s trousers in the groin area, potentially to get rid of evidence of rape. I suspect it was issued liberally at the house too. JMO.

 

[Niner]

Okay - way behind again - so hopefully this is still on for today....

Monday, March 4th:
*Trial continues (Day 27) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1119 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
Skipping Day 18 (2/13/19) thru Day 20 (2/19/19) - reference post #6 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #8
Skipping Day 21 (2/20/19) thru Day 23 (2/25/19 - reference post #128 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9
2/26/19 Day 24: States witness: FBI Special Agent Kevin Boles on cross exam. Det. Edward Bachman (recalled to stand). Trial continues to 2/27 will only have morning session as a juror has a prior commitment.
2/27/19 Day 25: A juror had a personal issue this morning (alternate juror #5 took his wife to the hospital with chest pains) and since court was only scheduled for the morning, the judge cancelled the trial for today. However, Judge, attorneys are in court (different courtroom) for a hearing. Hearing has started. Defense filed a motion yesterday to exclude jail conversations Merritt may have had w/family & friends while in custody. Sgt. Ryan Smith is on the stand. EXPLOSIVE! Hearing happened w/o jury present. San Bernardino County has been recording jailhouse visits from earlier this month with Merrit's family/friends using a digital recorder. Merritt had stopped using the jail phone that's monitored. Merritt had been talking through the glass at visits, avoiding the phone. Cathy Jarvis - Merritt's girlfriend at the time of the murders - her name was specifically mentioned by Sgt. Ryan Smith as to Ryan placing recording devices in visiting area. Prosecutor Daugherty: We have evidence Charles Merritt attempted to sway Catherine Jarvis's upcoming testimony. Judge denies defense motion to exclude the recordings. They WILL be played for the jury at some point. Catherine Jarvis will testify for the defense. Trial continues to 2/28.
2/28/18 Day 26: State witnesses: Sgt. Ryan Smith. Det. Jason Schroeder recalled to stand. Prosecution asking to publish a portion of CNN interview on YouTube with Merritt. Judge is going to allow it. Prosecution disclosed a new witness late last night. Eugene Liscio @Forensics3D . FARO scan testimony. Imes: he's not available until March 12. Judge may consider allowing state to rest &reopen with him later. No ruling on if this testimony will be allowed. Det. Edward Bachman (recalled). Prosecutors playing 15-20 mins of Merritt's Oct, 22, 2014, police interview that was hours long. Juanita Merritt, Chase's sister. Sgt. Ryan Smith (recalled). Prosecution expect to rest by end of next week. Trial continues to Monday, 3/4.
Also hearing on 3/8 @ 9am re OSC: Failure to comply to subpoena order (Google & Microsoft).

 

[A lucas]

Re voicemails. I am able to access my VMs from any phone. I dial my number and when it goes to VM I hit ‘8’ and it asks me for my four digit passcode. Once entered I can re hear, delete and do whatever with my messages. Not sure this was around in 2010 but maybe?

 

[mrjitty]

@InspectorGadget

Replying from the other thread

Why couldn't he receive the blank checks on the 4th and print them on 5th?

It is possible but this is what I mean about wild speculation vs actual trial evidence.

When interviewed by police Chase did not say this (as far as we know). He said he had been given cheques for himself and the cheques for MSM. Nothing about being given 76 cheque blanks and being authorised to create them himself.

The only person who can testify about that from personal knowledge is Chase. McGee cannot lead any other witnesses to say this.

So as @Tortoise correctly points about, if McGee is to so speculate in closing, it invites an accusation of tailoring of evidence, because he cuts across his own clients evidence.

And how has it been proven that he was in the house on 4th? The video of the car leaving has likely had the time misinterpreted so pretty flimsy evidence - could have been anybody's car.

The natural and obvious inference is that seeing it is proven Chase created the 2nd Paul Mitchell cheque, he also created the first one.

 

[mrjitty]

Re voicemails. I am able to access my VMs from any phone. I dial my number and when it goes to VM I hit ‘8’ and it asks me for my four digit passcode. Once entered I can re hear, delete and do whatever with my messages. Not sure this was around in 2010 but maybe?

It will really depend on the carrier rather than the phone

But this is ancient functionality that was around in 1996 when i got my first mobile.

 

[mrjitty]

IIRC - Three Crime Scenes;-

1. McStay's home - approx. 3 miles from I-15,
2. Burial site - just off I-15,
3. Trooper at Border - end of I-15.

IIRC - CM lived at Rancho Cucamonga, I-15 goes through that Town.

Homeland where CM was arrested is off H'Way 215 which connects to I-15 in both directions.

Something strange about I-15 ... maybe just that the Perp knew it well!!!

Do you think he left the bodies in the house on the night of the 4th?

I suspect not.

 

[Tortoise]

Just replying to a post in the previous thread. They did test the back of CM’s truck and it showed it had been bleached. Who the frig does that?

Suspected beach was also found on SM’s trousers in the groin area, potentially to get rid of evidence of rape. I suspect it was issued liberally at the house too. JMO.

Let's not forget the blacklight that was found at the house.

 

[Longtimenoc]

Let's not forget the blacklight that was found at the house.

Didnt know that. Man that is so incriminating. Had a sneaky little dog who used to lift his leg when we weren't looking and the best way to find the spots was to use a blacklight.

Just like those awful hotel exposes, the blacklight exposed the urine and other secretions. Sounds like Merritt covered his bases.

Can you imagine him sneaking about in the dark house at the crime scene with this light?

 

[mrjitty]

Let's not forget the blacklight that was found at the house.

IMO one of the most obvious screw ups he made.

I think his emergency cover story if he was caught at the house was that he was doing "renovations" for Joey while he was away in Mexico

 

[Tortoise]

deleted for edit

 

[Tortoise]

ok I tried to format that post but it removed all the spaces so I'll try another way.

 

[mrjitty]

One of the most interesting aspects of Whoever Fights Monsters was the original FBI work on organised vs disorganised killers

Obviously there is far more modern theory now, but this was foundational work.

In general, the disorganised killer strikes opportunistically, and lacks control. e.g you will see a blitz attack to overwhelm the victim. This kind of killer most likely just leaves the body were it fell.

The organised killer is very different. He will bring things to the crime tools that he needs like a rape kit. He will conceal and obscure evidence. He will take the victim somewhere he controls in order to enact his fantasy. He will then kill efficiently afterwards, or in accordance with his fantasy. Often the murder is only to hide the real reason for the attack (e.g. a rape).

Some killers display both aspects at once.

e.g. Becky Watts you see a blitz attack and loss of control via overkill (leaving forensics) but significant forethought with rape kit, stun gun etc) and then subsequent dismemberment.

IMO in this case you see a highly organised killer and especially significant staging. The overkill is not a loss of control but the actual point of the attacks.

I do believe this fantasy was about punishment, anger and control - from a killer who knew all the family well.

Especially the anger against Summer arises out of the Nexus between Joey and the Killer.

 

[Tortoise]

@Niner you asked eons ago for the cheque serial numbers and I have them now. Let me know if there's any other info you need such as the times created, printed, deleted, plus others created but not printed, cashed or banked. The most important one created on the 4th at the house is included even though it wasn't printed so there is no cheque serial number.

S = cheque serial number
P= payee
M= memo line


S:---- P: charles merritt, M: paul mitchell, $4000, created: 4th, date on cheque: 4th

S: 4236: P: metro sheet metal, M: misc. manufacture, $1650, created: 5th, date on cheque: 4th

S: 4237: P: charles merritt, M: paul mitchell, $4500, created: 5th, date on cheque: 4th, cashed 5th at Union Bank

S: 4238: P: metro sheet metal, M: copper, $250, created: 5th, date on cheque: 4th

S: 4240: P: charles merritt, M: deposit sa 1001, $2495, created 2nd, date on cheque 2nd, cashed 2nd at Union Bank

S: 4241: P: charles merritt, M: saudi arabia final, $6500, created 8th, date on cheque 4th, banked 9th at Bank of America

S: 4242: P: charles merritt, M: lighting install sa (1001), $2350, created 5th, date on cheque 4th, banked at Bank of America (haven't found date yet)

 

[Niner]

Thanks Tortoise.

And then I have chsk 4161 to 4235 missing (76 of them).

I think 4239 "might" be that 1st ck for $4000 to Merritt re Paul Mitchell, maybe?

 

[Tortoise]

One of the most interesting aspects of Whoever Fights Monsters was the original FBI work on organised vs disorganised killers

Obviously there is far more modern theory now, but this was foundational work.

In general, the disorganised killer strikes opportunistically, and lacks control. e.g you will see a blitz attack to overwhelm the victim. This kind of killer most likely just leaves the body were it fell.

The organised killer is very different. He will bring things to the crime tools that he needs like a rape kit. He will conceal and obscure evidence. He will take the victim somewhere he controls in order to enact his fantasy. He will then kill efficiently afterwards, or in accordance with his fantasy. Often the murder is only to hide the real reason for the attack (e.g. a rape).

Some killers display both aspects at once.

e.g. Becky Watts you see a blitz attack and loss of control via overkill (leaving forensics) but significant forethought with rape kit, stun gun etc) and then subsequent dismemberment.

IMO in this case you see a highly organised killer and especially significant staging. The overkill is not a loss of control but the actual point of the attacks.

I do believe this fantasy was about punishment, anger and control - from a killer who knew all the family well.

Especially the anger against Summer arises out of the Nexus between Joey and the Killer.

Would you ever expect to see a criminal profiler giving evidence in a trial to try to explain to the jury the significance of elements of the crime?

For example things we know -

1. (if the sledgehammer was in the house already) - killer must have known that because he didn't bring his own weapon so he was very familiar with house.
2. no signs of break in and no signs they were killed while sleeping - killer was let in by the family so they were comfortable with him.
3. dogs comfortable with killer and he wasn't afraid of them either (unlike the animal welfare lady) - dogs didn't bark and he put down food for them.
4. adults were killed up close by a blow so they didn't escape or think they needed to.
5. method of murder shows a personal dynamic - not a clean professional hit.
6. staging - not leaving their bodies there - burying the bodies - moving the Trooper - cleaning up blood - taking the phones - shows the killer's personal connection AND dedication to spend so much time wrapping/crating bodies, digging graves, cleaning, going back for the Trooper.
7. being in and out of the house so quickly with four people to kill with no screaming or 911 calls, dogs to handle and phones and keys to organise, showing it was planned and not a sudden rage.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Tortoise.

And then I have chsk 4161 to 4235 missing (76 of them).

I think 4239 "might" be that 1st ck for $4000 to Merritt re Paul Mitchell, maybe?

It could be but I wouldn't like to guess that one. He printed 4240 on the 2nd, so 4239 might have been one of the cheques he printed on Feb 1st but never cashed.