CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Texas Red]

The check made online on the eve of the 4th, then deleted, was identical to a check made online from CM's computer the next day and cashed.

MOO

I believe there's some confusion, perhaps missy can straighten it out, she always seem to know what's going on.

 

[Texas Red]

And Dugal bungled the whole investigation. But a broken clock is right twice a day.

Unless you're in the military then it's only right once.

 

[travelbug]

Yeah, on the 4th. Mikey didn’t have the computer on the 4th.

The reality is that any number of people could have had access to the Fallbrook house on the 4th. The PT and DT are doing their best to paint an actual picture of the 4th (and the days after), but there is no proof. For all we know the entire family may have been out to dinner and McG was there painting. I'm being slightly facetious, but neither side has presented an airtight timeline. jmo

 

[MichaelCorleone]

But what you are missing is that Joey was paying expenses at this point... since October, and that was MSM who were manufacturing the fountains.... and Joey was paying MSM directly for that. I did the math on my earlier calculations and it was within a percent or so of the 15% ... what Chase was getting in October 2009. So possibly Joey changed that to 15% on Feb 1st? or maybe they used that as an estimate? But that doesn't make sense to me either because theoretically, Chase could make money and do even less work... lol If MSM billed Joey for everything they were doing, including what Chase was supposed to be doing, Chase just got the remainder of the 65%, in theory, it could have ended up being $0.

Again, before October... when it shows Chases $$$ and it's 65%, do you think there were no expenses? (I am still unclear if Chase paid all of those or if Joey paid them and subracted from the 65% or a combination of the two) And if you do think there were no expenses, how do you think the fountains were actually made, with what products? How were they shipped?

That "savings" thing.... I can't think of anything logical that it represents lol

Lawd, you have me so confused.

How do you know Joey was paying expenses since October? I didn’t think we knew what the exact arrangements were, ever. I do not think expenses were very high, based on what JM said to his father, about a pump costing a couple hundred dollars and how he could make the fountains for pretty cheap. At any rate, we don’t know who was paying what expenses at any point, do we?

I do think the arrangement with MSM was that Merritt was Joey’s employee. Sequeda (or whatever the spelling is) said Merritt was Joey’s problem. Also, based on how MSM didn’t trust Merritt, I think if they were employing him, they’d have let him go. I think the arrangement with MSM was that Merritt would do the pumps and the electrical work (which was testified to, I believe) and MSM did the design and welding work. To me, it looks like MSM was getting 50%, but I have no idea who was footing the expenses. We do know JM bought pumps, and that Merritt was using them for non EIP projects, so maybe JM was paying the expenses.

 

[Texas Red]

Yeah, on the 4th. Mikey didn’t have the computer on the 4th.

You do realize that computer data can be backdated, correct?

 

[Bernina]

Going through Sequeida testimony again. There was a meeting with MSM and JM were JM was told the partnership would not continue if Merrittt was part of it.
At least 2 checks given to CM to give to MSM were not received, one incident involved Sequieda Sr. going off on CM, after verifying check was given to CM by JM, and CM spent it on "supplies" instead.
JM used mail or CM to deliver checks to MSM.
JM gave MSM fountain orders via Fax.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

The reality is that any number of people could have had access to the Fallbrook house on the 4th. The PT and DT are doing their best to paint an actual picture of the 4th (and the days after), but there is no proof. For all we know the entire family may have been out to dinner and McG was there painting. I'm being slightly facetious, but neither side has presented an airtight timeline. jmo

Yes but you’re missing the point. Texasred wrote,
“I believe data was retrieved from the computer indicating a check was made online and then deleted but never printed. However the data retrived, IMO, can't be relied upon because the computer had been been in the possession of others and may have been tampered with.”

Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted (as if MM would make a check out to Merritt and then delete it). My point is MM didn’t have the computer on the 4th.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

You do realize that computer data can be backdated, correct?

You do realize forensics people will know if that is done, not to mention it wouldn’t jive with the online QB records.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

I believe there's some confusion, perhaps missy can straighten it out, she always seem to know what's going on.

Wasn't identical. The amount was different, the 4th it was for $4000, the 5th it was $4500.

 

[travelbug]

Yes but you’re missing the point. Texasred wrote,
“I believe data was retrieved from the computer indicating a check was made online and then deleted but never printed. However the data retrived, IMO, can't be relied upon because the computer had been been in the possession of others and may have been tampered with.”

Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted (as if MM would make a check out to Merritt and then delete it). My point is MM didn’t have the computer on the 4th.

NO - you missed my entire point! At this point in the trial no one has proven who did/did not have access to the computer at the Fallbrook house on the 4th, not SBS, not SDC, not Rick B, not Corn, etc. etc.

 

[missy1974]

Lawd, you have me so confused.

How do you know Joey was paying expenses since October? I didn’t think we knew what the exact arrangements were, ever. I do not think expenses were very high, based on what JM said to his father, about a pump costing a couple hundred dollars and how he could make the fountains for pretty cheap. At any rate, we don’t know who was paying what expenses at any point, do we?

I do think the arrangement with MSM was that Merritt was Joey’s employee. Sequeda (or whatever the spelling is) said Merritt was Joey’s problem. Also, based on how MSM didn’t trust Merritt, I think if they were employing him, they’d have let him go. I think the arrangement with MSM was that Merritt would do the pumps and the electrical work (which was testified to, I believe) and MSM did the design and welding work. To me, it looks like MSM was getting 50%, but I have no idea who was footing the expenses. We do know JM bought pumps, and that Merritt was using them for non EIP projects, so maybe JM was paying the expenses.

It's clear to me! Let me see if I can make it more clear.. I will use the project listed for Oct 2/09. The cost of the fountain was $3100.... 65% of this is $2015. Chase was paid $504 for his work, which according to Sequieda, was the electrical, the plumbing, the design (tile/rocks/etching) possibly shipping and install as well. MSM was paid $1511, which from MSM testimony, that would have been billed, right? Would you consider that an expense?

$504 + $1511 = $2015 <<<< which is 65% of the fountain price of $3100. IMO Chase was paid whatever was not billed by MSM, which was 65% - MSM = Chase's pay

As for the pumps..... that testimony was from a time previous to October 2009. I can't recall the exact timing, but ALL of Chase's income came from Joey, so he wasn't doing 'side jobs' for quite some time. I want to say it was from January 2009 and on that the Accountant testified about, but will say JMO

ETA: Sequieda's saw Chase as Joey's partner, not an employee IIRC

 

[Texas Red]

You do realize forensics people will know if that is done, not to mention it wouldn’t jive with the online QB records.

The whole reason for doing so would be for it it to jive with the records on the server and the forensic people would have no idea what happened. I think you're giving the computer forensic people way too much credit.

 

[mrjitty]

As I’ve previously stated, I don’t know how any evidence taken from the home can be admissible. The crime scene was not secured, was tampered with, and contaminated.

Crime scenes are routinely not secured

E.g the grave site was not discovered for 4 years

 

[missy1974]

Going through Sequeida testimony again. There was a meeting with MSM and JM were JM was told the partnership would not continue if Merrittt was part of it.
At least 2 checks given to CM to give to MSM were not received, one incident involved Sequieda Sr. going off on CM, after verifying check was given to CM by JM, and CM spent it on "supplies" instead.
JM used mail or CM to deliver checks to MSM.
JM gave MSM fountain orders via Fax.

I hope you continue to listen to the testimony. How could CM cash a cheque that would have been made out to MSM? I believe that 'argument' was about the insurance cheque or insurance project that they redid. Sequieda in his testimony makes it VERY clear that Joey and only Joey paid them, not Chase. Carmen said the same.

 

[Texas Red]

@MichaelCorleone
Are you attempting to express an idea?

 

[missy1974]

You do realize forensics people will know if that is done, not to mention it wouldn’t jive with the online QB records.

Well... to be fair... I also thought forensic people would be able to determine that a file was accessed while the system was doing a scan and not by a user... and that didn't happen either.

 

[Texas Red]

Crime scenes are routinely not secured

E.g the grave site was not discovered for 4 years

There's more than one crime scene, mica is referring to the house.

 

[missy1974]

I believe there's some confusion, perhaps missy can straighten it out, she always seem to know what's going on.

If I don't.. Tortoise will wake up eventually LOL We are in different time zones LOL

 

[missy1974]

The whole reason for doing so would be for it it jive with the records on the server and the forensic people would have no idea what happened. I think you're giving the computer forensic people way too much credit.

Although I agree with you, and I would question things taken from the computer.... I don't agree about the computer/QB's and anyone could have manipulated that. They had a cached image of it, I will see if I can find it

 

[Cricket28]

Wasn't identical. The amount was different, the 4th it was for $4000, the 5th it was $4500.

That's right. It's hard to keep everything straight sometimes.