CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[fridaybaker]

It was not inhaled, it was a pill bottle and it looked like 20mg's. I will see if I can find the pic (it was 3 pill bottles and some allergy over the counter meds found in the truck) I'm not even sure there were pills in it... or when he was taking them, I'm just saying from experience, it's possible... and IMO some doctor's suck, they don't warn about side effects or look at med's causing symptoms that present. JMO

I disagree about the wooziness. Headaches and dizziness are a very common side effect. If staying on it long term, they can subside, but for some it never does. A lot depends on dosage as well, but almost every person I have come in contact with (and it's A LOT), the most common side effect that everyone gets, is that. I wouldn't say it energizes someone, although it may depending on the reason it's taken, it actually causes insomnia and will cause a lack of sleep, which causes a lack of concentration, etc. It is a wonderful drug, used for many diseases, however, the long lasting side effects from it suck!!!

My husband has had Crohn's disease for 30 years. Prednisone is the go to drug for anyone with Crohn's/Colitis when they walk into an ER, we have a large online support community, everyone dreads the 'prednisone' fix.

Missy, I think I didn't explain what I meant about "energizing" very well. It does cause euphoria, as well as the insomnia that you stated. It's the combination of that that I was trying to describe.

Also, I did some more looking and it is true: Steroids can cause both dizziness ("wooziness") and muscle weakness. I was aware of the muscle weakness, but only associated it with high dose/chronic, regular use. I still am of the idea that that is the case. I just didn't think he would be on either. However, I suppose we just don't know for sure if that is the case here.

So, yes, I do think the Predisone could have been causing his symptoms, but I still think it pretty unlikely, unless he had been taking it for a long time. Often, it would be prescribed in an asthmatic as a short course, to get an acute bout under control. However, we can't know for sure.

What makes me doubt this Prednisone theory, is that his symptoms had been going on for quite some time -I believe he was hospitalized in October or thereabouts. I'll have to go back over what must be thousands of posts to find this! If I have non-Prednisone-induced insomnia tonight, I'll surely do so. When he was hospitalized, at any rate, they apparently did "some tests" and couldn't find anything. In that case, one of the very first things that would have been done would have been to consider his medications. They would have done metabolic-type of tests, looked at medications, and considered stress. What they wouldn't have done, would have been to test for poisons. Likely, not finding anything on tests, they gave him something for the short-term, discharged him, and told him to make an appointment with his MD if he had continued symptoms.

These are my thoughts on it, and perhaps the timeline is too long for the poisoning theory. Perhaps just stress? I will say this: Early on when they were still missing, Patrick dismissed the idea that Joey has terribly stressed-out. Flat out denied it. Joey had a lot going on, but had just moved into a great house that they seemed to love, had a lovely family, and the business was picking up. Why would he be that stressed?

Why would Chase be poisoning him at that point? It's way before he would have caught wind of the changing times with the Joey McStay-Chase Merritt "partnership", isn't it?

Interestingly, the symptoms, apparently, continued right on into February, because I believe that the time he had to pull over onto the side of the road because of them, and called his mother at the time, was in early February. Do you know?

 

[missy1974]

There is a hearing tomorrow as well, but no clue if Law & Crime will be there tomorrow, or allowed to be... or if they will be there Tuesday I checked Cathy Russon's twitter earlier today, and no mention of McStay trial

 

[Force Ten]

They were brothers though... so maybe it was just coincidence that he was in the area and drove by since he was? Maybe he didn't see the Trooper there at the time so didn't stop?

I really think the only significance would be the work truck and the 4th... since they have a video of a work truck that doesn't seem to be the Trooper on video that evening. There is nothing conclusive that shows it's Merritt's truck. Some can conclude that it is ... some can conclude that it isn't.

I'm betting, knowing how Mike is, once he told the reporting officer that he went by there the officer asked him "what day was that?" his thoughts scattered. This is how Mike is in the Watt's videos and how he's been described to me by those that know him. He's already halfway through the month, and trying to think backwards. I could see him easily stating the wrong date. This is a non issue. Just more over-focus on 'things Mike said'.

Nothing conclusive that it's actually Merritt's truck, correct. But you can't deny the very close resemblance of his very truck, the shape, the headlights, the tailpipe.

And then there's that pesky check writing to "chase merritt" with the memo "paul mitchell".

 

[QueenBofOB]

When I did all the UPS shipping for my father years and years ago, we had the shipping cost included when we filed claims. My father also did that with Air Freight items coming from Scandinavia + the cost of customs and any import taxes. Labor wasn't a consideration because he was the retailer of goods.
Some companies do overestimate the value to cover time lost and backlogs to replace the item. Some insure for wholesale, others for retail value.
Usually the time period depended on how quickly you could get the claims department to get the paperwork done.
Did JM ever deposit that check? I don't recall that it showed up anywhere...

I wonder if maybe he cashed it and was going to keep the money hidden at home? I think that there may have been more, than just some fraudulent check cashing going on, along with the murders. In my opinion, JM had money stashed in the house, maybe for buying house renovation supplies, pay for labor, etc. Or maybe just a rainy day. CM possibly knew this and wanted to get his hands on it.

 

[fridaybaker]

I don't think so. But I can see why others would. I think he is like that all the time, and then add the stress of his family missing, and then probably the lack of sleep. Just have to watch the Tim Miller video's to see it.

Here is the thing: MM reacted/said some things which seemed quite strange to many, many people in the aftermath of the disappearance. I don't think it was wrong to question some of those things at the time. Everyone was asking any and every question, and analyzing every sentence and action, of pretty much anyone remotely related to the McStays at the time. His statements and actions received extra scrutiny because they were different and, to some, odd.

As well, there was quite a bit of interest in DK , due to the "fight" over the website and the fact that he paid himself after the disappearance, and it looked like he would be left with the business.

However, neither of these avenues panned out, and it was (in my estimation, rightly so) determined that MM is his own cat, as are many of us, and DK was simply taking what he was owed. They were blind alleys. Chase Merritt, on the other hand, not so much. He printed and deleted checks to himself, backdating to the last date the family was seen alive, etc., etc.

 

[missy1974]

Missy, I think I didn't explain what I meant about "energizing" very well. It does cause euphoria, as well as the insomnia that you stated. It's the combination of that that I was trying to describe.

Also, I did some more looking and it is true: Steroids can cause both dizziness ("wooziness") and muscle weakness. I was aware of the muscle weakness, but only associated it with high dose/chronic, regular use. I still am of the idea that that is the case. I just didn't think he would be on either. However, I suppose we just don't know for sure if that is the case here.

So, yes, I do think the Predisone could have been causing his symptoms, but I still think it pretty unlikely, unless he had been taking it for a long time. Often, it would be prescribed in an asthmatic as a short course, to get an acute bout under control. However, we can't know for sure.

What makes me doubt this Prednisone theory, is that his symptoms had been going on for quite some time -I believe he was hospitalized in October or thereabouts. I'll have to go back over what must be thousands of posts to find this! If I have non-Prednisone-induced insomnia tonight, I'll surely do so. When he was hospitalized, at any rate, they apparently did "some tests" and couldn't find anything. In that case, one of the very first things that would have been done would have been to consider his medications. They would have done metabolic-type of tests, looked at medications, and considered stress. What they wouldn't have done, would have been to test for poisons. Likely, not finding anything on tests, they gave him something for the short-term, discharged him, and told him to make an appointment with his MD if he had continued symptoms.

These are my thoughts on it, and perhaps the timeline is too long for the poisoning theory. Perhaps just stress? I will say this: Early on when they were still missing, Patrick dismissed the idea that Joey has terribly stressed-out. Flat out denied it. Joey had a lot going on, but had just moved into a great house that they seemed to love, had a lovely family, and the business was picking up. Why would he be that stressed?

Why would Chase be poisoning him at that point? It's way before he would have caught wind of the changing times with the Joey McStay-Chase Merritt "partnership", isn't it?

Interestingly, the symptoms, apparently, continued right on into February, because I believe that the time he had to pull over onto the side of the road because of them, and called his mother at the time, was in early February. Do you know?

I really don't know if he was still on prednisone, if he was on it long term, short term, etc. Last night was the first time I had a really good look at the pill bottles and as soon as I read prednisone, it was my first thought. So much has been said over the years about his "illness" it's hard to distinguish when things were said and when he was actually sick and if he was still sick. IMO I don't think that it was Chase's "idea" that Summer was poisoning him, I recall this very early on when they went missing, a few threads ago, I had gone back to the early threads here, and it was being discussed. Chase was not in the media then, didn't want to be (probably because of all his troubles and warrant lol).

Susan had originally said that he pulled over that day, I think we have since learned that he didn't talk to her that day.

 

[fridaybaker]

This reminds me of the “Anger” medication that Summer tried to buy. Was she realistically trying to purchase some or trying to confirm that someone was poisoning her husband? Although we will likely never know, it is concerning that CM and JM’s family both believed he was suffering from something and most likely at CM’s hands. IMO
Could she have found a medication labeled as such or maybe CM alleged to her that JM was taking such a medication? CM offering that he did indeed travel to Mexico to buy Viagra is hinky in itself but when you consider that JM complained of symptoms that were undiagnosed is scary. Any medication purchased in Mexico would not be FDA regulated and who is to say what medication CM purchased and who he may have dosed with it?

The problem with this is that Joey had been experiencing symptoms for months, I believe, and I'm not sure we've tracked Chase to have had reason to harm Joey that far back. Can you give any idea about this?

 

[missy1974]

I'm betting, knowing how Mike is, once he told the reporting officer that he went by there the officer asked him "what day was that?" his thoughts scattered. This is how Mike is in the Watt's videos and how he's been described to me by those that know him. He's already halfway through the month, and trying to think backwards. I could see him easily stating the wrong date. This is a non issue. Just more over-focus on 'things Mike said'.

Nothing conclusive that it's actually Merritt's truck, correct. But you can't deny the very close resemblance of his very truck, the shape, the headlights, the tailpipe.

And then there's that pesky check writing to "chase merritt" with the memo "paul mitchell".

I would tend to believe that it is just Mike being Mike... but in his testimony he actually elaborates and says he was in his work truck. Do you think he would take his family on the 13th in his work truck?

There can still be absolutely nothing nefarious about it, he drove by, didn't stop. Maybe he was curious? His brother had bought and moved to a new house.

It may resemble it....but do you know what kind of work truck Mike had? If there is even a remote chance that Mike had gone there that evening, I think it shouldn't be ignored, but hey, that's JMO Does anyone know what kind of work truck Mike had? There are lots of different 'work trucks'.

 

[fridaybaker]

I wonder if maybe he cashed it and was going to keep the money hidden at home? I think that there may have been more, than just some fraudulent check cashing going on, along with the murders. In my opinion, JM had money stashed in the house, maybe for buying house renovation supplies, pay for labor, etc. Or maybe just a rainy day. CM possibly knew this and wanted to get his hands on it.

Oh boy -the cash stored at the house! This was discussed over many a thread back in the day. I can't recall all of the reasons/particulars at this point, but you are not the only one who had the idea that Joey might have some cash stashed around and our favorite defendant aware of it!

 

[missy1974]

I wonder if maybe he cashed it and was going to keep the money hidden at home? I think that there may have been more, than just some fraudulent check cashing going on, along with the murders. In my opinion, JM had money stashed in the house, maybe for buying house renovation supplies, pay for labor, etc. Or maybe just a rainy day. CM possibly knew this and wanted to get his hands on it.

Anything is possible... but if he had cashed that cheque and LE thought he had that cash on him or at home, that would give more reason to someone (Chase) having a motive. 16K cash is untracable, the cheques were easily found.

 

[Recidivist]

On the last day of his testimony, mike mcstay stated that in his last phone call with his brother, that Joey was "frantic" due to money being missing from his bank account. (32.33)

Also, Mike states that he was likely mistaken in earlier stating he had driven by the house on Feb. 4 or 6.

 

[Cricket28]

I don't think so. But I can see why others would. I think he is like that all the time, and then add the stress of his family missing, and then probably the lack of sleep. Just have to watch the Tim Miller video's to see it.

ITA! There really is a big difference in the behavior of SM's brother and MM in the video isn't there? Although I think at the end of the day, MM is just more socially awkward than SM's brother. MOO

 

[Cricket28]

I had questioned whether investigators had ever had the opportunity to read his book. I'm assuming they haven't, if they had surely portions of it would've been entered into evidence for the prosecution. I imagine Chase would have written derogatory statements about Summer and her 'energetic' children that weren't being raised with the corporal punishment method, much to his dismay. (insert eye roll here)

Regardless, I hope some day it is discovered and released. It would be very insightful as to his mindset.

IIRC, Somewhere in the search warrants CM tells investigators he wrote about 7 chapters but stopped. I can't remember the reason he gave for stopping.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

On the last day of his testimony, mike mcstay stated that in his last phone call with his brother, that Joey was "frantic" due to money being missing from his bank account. (32.33)

Also, Mike states that he was likely mistaken in earlier stating he had driven by the house on Feb. 4 or 6.

He says "around the 1st", could have been the 31st, or the 2nd. Why do you suppose they didn't show him his phone records to "refresh" his memory? Do you recall if the defense did? I don't hear where he says he was likely mistaken about driving by the house on the 4 or 6th?

The prosecutor does ask him if anything he has heard changes his belief about what he remembers. It does not. But that is pretty common, isn't it? That's why statements are used to "refresh" their memory.

Again, not sure it matters if he drove by or not... he was his brother, not like he was a stranger. As for the money missing from his account, if it was before the 2nd, then I'm not sure how that has anything to do with Merritt, the prosecution has shown nothing about missing money before the 2nd? Would have been a pretty simple thing to show him his phone records to see the last time he talked to Joey.

In the timeline thread, the last call with Mike I see is on February 1st: 1:33pm - incoming call from Mikey 8 min
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mcstay-family-comprehensive-timeline.285143/

 

[missy1974]

ITA! There really is a big difference in the behavior of SM's brother and MM in the video isn't there? Although I think at the end of the day, MM is just more socially awkward than SM's brother. MOO

I don't even know if it was socially awkwardness... I think he was thrown into a situation that he didn't know what to do or how to handle it, like most families of the missing. Those video's were a few weeks after they had been reported missing, I don't doubt that he hadn't been getting much rest and must have been exhausted by then. He resorted to coming to InSession's forum at the time, to try to get help, sad in retrospect. There are organizations and LE that should have been helping them IMO. In a day and age that everything is recorded, every word is examined, every body movement is analyzed, it's understandable why some have questions, even if I'm not one of them JMO

 

[katydid23]

I am really curious what the point is, of the defense calling Susan , Mike and Patrick. Do I have that correct that they were mentioned as upcoming defense witnesses?

 

[wary]

I am really curious what the point is, of the defense calling Susan , Mike and Patrick. Do I have that correct that they were mentioned as upcoming defense witnesses?

I believe the point would be to raise lines of questioning that the prosecution didn’t raise. Do we have any idea what those might be?

 

[Cricket28]

I can't read too much into the dates he said he drove by. He's not even clear on the date. It have been the 10th even. He said he did because no one had heard from them or couldn't get a hold of. But we know that the alarm wasn't sounded until the 9th at the soonest. I was thinking for a long time that he went there before he went with his family, but I thought the visit was with Chase alone. But I know there was an early article stating it.

That's the thing with MM, sometimes you have to take him with a grain of salt. Early on, I had thought he went to the house alone on 2/13/10. Then it was revealed CM was with him, then it wasn't just CM but also MM's wife and children were there. And the whole thing regarding LE giving him permission to take the laptop. Which Dugal denied giving him the permission in his testimony.

I don't think MM is trying to be deceitful, but I do wish he would be a little more careful in what he says and in his actions. At least until this trial is over.

MOO

 

[Cricket28]

I completely agree. The whole back and forth about Chase coming inside versus staying outside was mind bending lol. One second I would think it was definitely Mike inside alone and the next it seemed Chase surely went in.. Very confusing.

I still can't fathom why Mike said he drove by on the 4th or the 6th. When they brought that up, why didn't he say 'now I know that that definitely wasn't true, at the time I had my dates confused'? Because he had zero reason to have driven past the house before the 9th. He had never even been to this house, IIRC he said he had to meet Chase somewhere else so Chase could show him where to go?

The only thing I can come up with is early on he blurted out an earlier drive by date to seem like a good brother out of guilt for not acting sooner.

BBM

I think you might be right. My heart does go out to him.

MOO

 

[Niner]

Friday, March 8th:
*Trial continues (Day 28)-without jurors (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1119 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
Skipping Day 18 (2/13/19) thru Day 20 (2/19/19) - reference post #6 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #8
Skipping Day 21 (2/20/19) thru Day 23 (2/25/19 - reference post #128 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9
Skipping Day 24 (2/26/19) thru Day 26 (2/28/18) reference post #431 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11
3/4/19 Day 27: Defense arguing against a clip from CNN to be played in court. Which is "I am definitely the last person he saw"). Judge overrules, it will be played. And about photos of video surveillance allegedly showing Merritt's truck are among the issues currently being argued. State witness: Sgt. Ryan Smith (recalled). DA shows CNN clip. DA rests case. Defense asked for dismissal of all charges. Denied. There is a hearing 3/8 re OSC: Failure to comply to subpoena order (Google & Microsoft) without jurors. Jurors will be back in court on Tuesday, 3/12 to hear last State witness re FARO scan testimony by Eugene Liscio. Pros wanted the defense’s witness list, they hadn't received it.