CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #13

[coastal]

Tuesday, March 19th:
*Trial continues (Day 34) (@ 9:30m PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
See Trial Days 1 (1/7/19) thru 26 (2/28/18) links - reference post #541 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #12
See Trial Days 27 (3/4/19) thru 30 (3/12/19) - reference post #171 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #13
3/13/19 Day 31: Judge Michael A. Smith is addressing the jury about Gov. Newsom's moratorium on death penalty, "It has no effect on this phase of the trial. Also don't consider that for any purpose. I will guide you on law." Defense witnesses: Sara Taylor Jarvis, Merritt's daughter. Catherine Jarvis, ex of Merritt's. Trial continues on 3/14.
3/14/19 Day 32: Defense witness: Catherine Jarvis. Trial continues to Monday, 3/18.
3/18/19 Day 33: Defense witness: Susan Blake. Trial continues to Tuesday, 3/19.
Schedule for week of 3/18: Mon. 3/18-early finish; Tues. 3/19-full trial day, Wed. 3/20-full trial day, Thurs. 3/21 & Fri. 3/22-Dark; Wed. 3/27-afternoon session. NO COURT: March 25 (Monday), 26 (Tuesday), 28th (Thursday), April 1 (Monday), 2 (Tuesday). April 3 (Wednesday)-Morning session only. Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

Thanks, Niner!

 

[JMarsh]

In that case how do we explain Merritt's DNA in the Trooper?
And Merritt's statement to LE about if he would murder anyone it would be DK?
Looks like CM really hated DK if he said that IMO. Wonder what was up with that?

Transfer DNA. Same theory as has been put forward by the defense all along. Merritt's DNA is not in the Trooper in very large amounts. Minor and trace.

I don't really think that Chase was saying he would kill DK. Chase doesn't seem to have much of a filter. I think he was just blowing off steam. Those two had been in conflict.

 

[Karinna]

Transfer DNA. Same theory as has been put forward by the defense all along. Merritt's DNA is not in the Trooper in very large amounts. Minor and trace.

I don't really think that Chase was saying he would kill DK. Chase doesn't seem to have much of a filter. I think he was just blowing off steam. Those two had been in conflict.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure on what the defense is saying though?
As per Merritt's statement to LE he had last been in the vehicle 6 weeks prior. I'm sure the state could poke holes in that theory IMO.
For example,what if the vehicle had been cleaned after that? If driven daily the transfer DNA could easily have been wiped off? JMO anyway.

 

[JMarsh]

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure on what the defense is saying though?
As per Merritt's statement to LE he had last been in the vehicle 6 weeks prior. I'm sure the state could poke holes in that theory IMO.
For example,what if the vehicle had been cleaned after that? If driven daily the transfer DNA could easily have been wiped off? JMO anyway.

The transfer DNA would have most likely come to be in the Trooper from contact between Joey and Chase on the 4th. Touch/transfer DNA is not uncommon at all now that DNA testing is so acute.

Summer's DNA in the Trooper is likely there for the same reason. From contact with Joey, and her DNA is in much smaller amounts.

Secondary DNA Transfer: The Rarely Discussed Phenomenon That Can Place the Innocent (and the Dead) at a Crime Scene They’ve Never Been To | Criminal Legal News
Framed By Your Own Cells: How DNA Evidence Imprisons The Innocent
How to Swab for Touch DNA Evidence

 

[mrjitty]

I have a theory that Chase never even told Cathy the McStays were missing until after that first weekend. Based on him being the one who murdered them, per the evidence, I don't think he would draw attention to the fact of their disappearance while he's still got the bodies, is then out burying them and moving their Trooper to the border.

So when he's calling her during his interview with detectives on Feb 17th, asking what they were doing on Monday 8th, I don't think Cathy even realizes then that it was the Monday after the disappearance or what date the McStays actually disappeared.

There's something about the lateness of them discussing that he needs to speak to police even though he's got warrants, because this could be a life or death situation, and so when she's going back over her memories of Chase not answering Joey's call she could be mixing in information from Mikey (who has Joey's bill and the 8.28 call), as well as the Friday before the 4th where Chase didn't pick up Joey's call.

So I don't think she had a reference point for when they disappeared from the beginning. If they had have questioned her with dates and times closer to the time it happened I think she would have remembered Chase being absent on the 6th when he was in the desert, and maybe she would have clocked other things around that time, like his 20 odd calls to her that lunch time and the 5 calls she made to his voicemail that evening.

JMO

I think between you and @Force Ten you have got into the heart of the misdirection in those early days.

The defendant inserted himself into the middle of the mystery and fed false information which then evolved to reflect emerging facts

The "restaurant sounds" on the last call - this can only have come from Chase to Mike.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, it was additional money given to Chase. I will be looking forward to seeing all of the receipts provided by Chase, for legitimate business expenses. And also how many fountains he actually completed and delivered to customers.

As if the defendant will produce primary records.

 

[mrjitty]

Mike could not possibly seen anyone get into the vehicle. There were two cameras and both out of sight of the driveway. Imo Mike took what Chase told him regarding the "restaurant sounds" and what LE told him about the video and made his own assumptions. Upon getting the news of the video he made a knee jerk reaction and made his post. We all know Mike has made some pretty dumb statements. He just seems like a guy who continued to insert his foot in his mouth.

I don't recall if I said this but I provided all this info to Smith. Not sure what they'll do with it, if anything. The Pros has rested and I don't believe they can or will recall him. Maybe the defense will recall him. It's a missed opportunity but honestly, his memory sucked imo and maybe wouldn't recall. However people have brought back things I've said that I've forgot that I should have remembered.

Thank you for your reply.

I really think you are on to something with this.

Regards Mike, unfortunately in cases like these we have to take the witnesses as we find them, and had the family been more on to it, so much of this confusion could be avoided.

But as you correctly point out, the family were themselves taken in and misdirected, and that in turn misdirected the original investigators who simply followed the small amount of evidence they had. I've often wondered if the family themselves suspected Joey was in trouble, and in accessing the house and cleaning up, were trying to be protective.

 

[mrjitty]

Neither do I Missy. I don't understand any of it.

I know CA trials are often long, and unnecessarily laborious, but I have never, ever seen a CA trial remotely like this one.

Its become bizarre to me. No one hardly works a full day ever, and there has been more dark days than days of testimony.

If they had continuous weeks of testimony, the guilt phase would have been over weeks ago. Imo

Yes - I am following a trial in RSA and it is much more as you expect. Witnesses are called. They give evidence for an hour at most, and you get multiple witnesses per day.

Especially witnesses are not cross examined for hours at a time on speculative points.

The other thing I find utterly strange is why witnesses keep coming back!

I have never seen anything like that.

 

[mrjitty]

'No clue' how McStays' were killed, Merritt told CNN - CNN
A few questions answered:

"In his interview with CNN's Randi Kaye, Merritt said he and McStay were business associates who became friends. Merritt made custom indoor waterfalls and McStay would buy them, he said. They met in 2007 when McStay needed some help with a water feature."

"There was another call from McStay's phone to Merritt the night of February 4, 2010. It came about 40 minutes after a neighbor's security camera captured the family's Isuzu pulling out of their cul-de-sac. Merritt didn't answer.
Merritt told Kaye in January he was watching television with his then-girlfriend and he picked up the phone, looked at it and set it back down. He was tired. He called back the next day, he said."

"There are hundreds of scenarios. I have gone over all of them in my head," he said. "Of course, I regret not picking up the phone."

'Prime suspect' in McStay murder mystery breaks his silence | Daily Mail Online

‘It has been reported that I spoke to him in the evening, but that isn’t true. He did call me at 8.28pm, but I was watching a movie with my girlfriend, looked at the phone and decided not to answer.

How many different versions of his alibi does this guy have now?

Maybe it would be instructive to itemise the different versions now that CJ and his daughter have speculated new improved versions into existence?

e.g.

Saw the call come in / decided not to answer / watching movie
Didn't see the call / doesn't remember it / in bathroom
Restaurant sounds on "last call"
Office and kids on ""last call"
Where was I driving at 9.30 pm?

Chase: Yeah. What would I be doing on Van Buren Boulevard, at 9.32 at night? There’s nothing over there. There’s the 60, Van Buren runs parallel

I came back down to the house, laid my phone on the counter, phone rang and you saw it, obviously, I didn’t, I never remembered that phone call, ever, I still don’t to this day.

Merritt told Kaye in January he was watching television with his then-girlfriend and he picked up the phone, looked at it and set it back down. He was tired.He called back the next day, he said."

 

[Tortoise]

I think between you and @Force Ten you have got into the heart of the misdirection in those early days.

The defendant inserted himself into the middle of the mystery and fed false information which then evolved to reflect emerging facts

The "restaurant sounds" on the last call - this can only have come from Chase to Mike.

What makes me think she has no actual memory of February 4th is that in their jailhouse discussion, this February, after he tells her about his phone picking up towers near Riverside at 9.32 you can't really hear her side of the call but he's saying to her 'would you have had my phone?' and 'no, I phoned you, you were at home', so it seems to me as if she's saying she remembers being in that area at some point around that time.

Hopefully the jurors' transcript is complete with both their comments and not just Chase's because I think Ryan Smith said he placed recording devices on both sides of the glass.

 

[Karinna]

The transfer DNA would have most likely come to be in the Trooper from contact between Joey and Chase on the 4th. Touch/transfer DNA is not uncommon at all now that DNA testing is so acute.

Summer's DNA in the Trooper is likely there for the same reason. From contact with Joey, and her DNA is in much smaller amounts.

Secondary DNA Transfer: The Rarely Discussed Phenomenon That Can Place the Innocent (and the Dead) at a Crime Scene They’ve Never Been To | Criminal Legal News
Framed By Your Own Cells: How DNA Evidence Imprisons The Innocent
How to Swab for Touch DNA Evidence

Thanks for posting up the link. I have read a little about transfer DNA and it's interesting. But wouldn't that apply to everyone we come into contact with in a day if it is so sensitive? JM could of transferred someone else's DNA into his vehicle, and SM as well. But only CM's showed up in small amount?
But then again i guess in any given criminal case it's a combination of things that join the dots to create the picture of a suspect, not just one thing.
To my way of thinking anyhow.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks for posting up the link. I have read a little about transfer DNA and it's interesting. But wouldn't that apply to everyone we come into contact with in a day if it is so sensitive? JM could of transferred someone else's DNA into his vehicle, and SM as well. But only CM's showed up in small amount?
But then again i guess in any given criminal case it's a combination of things that join the dots to create the picture of a suspect, not just one thing.
To my way of thinking anyhow.

In every single case where there is incriminating DNA the defence has to argue for contamination, false positive or transfer/trace

The first two are increasingly hard to argue as advanced DNA testing techniques become more proven

Once cannot say that transfer is more likely than direct deposit.

All we know is the DNA is there, which is what we would expect if Chase is the killer.

Anyway there is nothing special here and you can read any number of cases where this is a key battleground (Knox, Holzclaw etc)

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

Oh no. Never. I have problems finding older posts sometimes and it helps if there is a number referenced. But the last thing I would want is to lose Missy. She does some great research. And is constantly hearing/seeing things I missed.

LOL I'm just being my cheeky self. I'd understand if missy's post was two or more pages back but two posts up .... was too funny and I couldn't resist commenting lol, sorry. I know what you mean though, where would we be without missy!! I regret not paying more attention and following this case from day one. I'm learning alot throughout this trial though, thanks to all you awesome members!

 

[mrjitty]

What makes me think she has no actual memory of February 4th is that in their jailhouse discussion, this February, after he tells her about his phone picking up towers near Riverside at 9.32 you can't really hear her side of the call but he's saying to her 'would you have had my phone?' and 'no, I phoned you, you were at home', so it seems to me as if she's saying she remembers being in that area at some point around that time.

Hopefully the jurors' transcript is complete with both their comments and not just Chase's because I think Ryan Smith said he placed recording devices on both sides of the glass.

For me that conversation is deeply revealing because in private, Chase admits he was not at home and I think it confirms your thesis that he has to manage CJ. She doesn't know what happened and he has to plant ideas about how it can be explained.

He in effect probes her for any useful/possible explanations as to why he was out there on the road that night.

Think about it in terms of the expected dialogue.

He should say that "we both know 100% we were home at 8.30 watching a movie".

He should go on to say - "I definitely was not out at 9.30 and you remember that right? Because I was home with you...."

OR

He should say "I must have gone out after the movie but I don't remember where, do you?"

This is a common issue with people who are not speaking from experiential memories but rather from a constructed timeline.

Their speech does not match to memories but rather to exposition

Murder is not a good time to be writing your first screenplay

 

[Tortoise]

So the defense wanted to get into questioning Susan Blake about a problem in Joey's and Summer's marriage, but were shut down by the judge on relevancy grounds.

I have been wondering what their strategy was and I can only think that they were going to try to open the door to discussion about Summer's ex. Throwing mud wherever it might stick. Maybe they've awoken to the problem with having all their eggs in one basket LOL.

 

[Tortoise]

For me that conversation is deeply revealing because in private, Chase admits he was not at home and I think it confirms your thesis that he has to manage CJ. She doesn't know what happened and he has to plant ideas about how it can be explained.

He in effect probes her for any useful/possible explanations as to why he was out there on the road that night.

Think about it in terms of the expected dialogue.

He should say that "we both know 100% we were home at 8.30 watching a movie".

He should go on to say - "I definitely was not out at 9.30 and you remember that right? Because I was home with you...."

OR

He should say "I must have gone out after the movie but I don't remember where, do you?"

This is a common issue with people who are not speaking from experiential memories but rather from a constructed timeline.

Their speech does not match to memories but rather to exposition

Murder is not a good time to be writing your first screenplay

Absolutely mrjitty.

Reminds me of these lyrics - All in all it's just another brick in the wall

 

[mrjitty]

So the defense wanted to get into questioning Susan Blake about a problem in Joey's and Summer's marriage, but were shut down by the judge on relevancy grounds.

I have been wondering what their strategy was and I can only think that they were going to try to open the door to discussion about Summer's ex. Throwing mud wherever it might stick. Maybe they've awoken to the problem with having all their eggs in one basket LOL.

Death by 1000 cuts was always the defence strategy

As I pointed out in opening, McGee didn't make a dramatic speech about his poor innocent client framed for a crime DK committed. He knew that wouldn't fly.

Rather he spent his key intro time talking about how amazing his expert team was.

It's a pure mudslinger play in the hope that all of it adds up to a reasonable doubt.

 

[Karinna]

In every single case where there is incriminating DNA the defence has to argue for contamination, false positive or transfer/trace

The first two are increasingly hard to argue as advanced DNA testing techniques become more proven

Once cannot say that transfer is more likely than direct deposit.

All we know is the DNA is there, which is what we would expect if Chase is the killer.

Anyway there is nothing special here and you can read any number of cases where this is a key battleground (Knox, Holzclaw etc)

Thanks for explaining it so well, always enjoy your take on things.
Have followed the Knox case years ago and always felt her and Rafael Solecito were guilty in it.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks for explaining it so well, always enjoy your take on things.
Have followed the Knox case years ago and always felt her and Rafael Solecito were guilty in it.

Without discussing the outcome, Solecito had a very similar problem with his DNA on the victims bra strap.

Despite all kinds of defence arguments and claims in english speaking media, as far as I understand it, that evidence remained undisturbed in the final judgment.

There is really nothing new under the sun

 

[Karinna]

Without discussing the outcome, Solecito had a very similar problem with his DNA on the victims bra strap.

Despite all kinds of defence arguments and claims in english speaking media, as far as I understand it, that evidence remained undisturbed in the final judgment.

There is really nothing new under the sun

BBM, Very true.