CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #13

[Cricket28]

So with all this money Merritt was given per SB's testimony, did CM ever deliver on the goods that the money was for? The fountains?

Well, if we follow CJ's conversation with CM, no he didn't follow through.

MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

True. But is the entire 8 hours relevant?

I certainly wouldnt think so.

 

[Cricket28]

Susan Blake's testimony yesterday actually made me re-think my position on whether Dan K. could be responsible for these murders. I'm beginning to think he might have been. He certainly could have hired someone, promising monies later. He was the only person Joey actually took steps to get rid of. Steps that can be objectively verified. And he might have been able to lure the family out of their home Friday morning the 5th.

Maybe the trip to Hawaii was done to provide him with an alibi. That this was part of the plan.

I am also now convinced that the family was alive until Friday morning, and that they were very likely lured from the home.

If they were lured out Friday morning, then wouldn't you expect to see a late night/early morning call on JM's phone log? Or is (as you say, DK) going to risk him or his car being seen during daylight at the McStay house? Plus, JM ALWAYS started his calls early... where are his calls from 2/5/2010?

MOO

 

[JMarsh]

If they were lured out Friday morning, then wouldn't you expect to see a late night/early morning call on JM's phone log? Or is (as you say, DK) going to risk him or his car being seen during daylight at the McStay house? Plus, JM ALWAYS started his calls early... where are his calls from 2/5/2010?

MOO

Joey didn't always start his calls early. If you work for yourself, the only way to vaca is to turn off your phone. And in the three months of phone logs I have of Joey's, it appears he did this at times. There are definite patterns.

 

[Cricket28]

It's interesting in his own language selection Chase allows for the fact that he was indeed on the road going somewhere and not at home per his alibi

Yet CJ is crucial to his official alibi per his own defence and statements

Shouldn't the two of them know he was at home when speaking candidly and privately between themselves?

BBM

You would think so mr. jitty....that is, if they argued like TJ and CJ stated they did in their testimony.

MOO

 

[JMarsh]

To me, showing only a few minutes of an 8 hour long interrogation is absurd to me. JMO

Maybe they can play thsi on days when they are absent a witness. As a serial.

 

[JMarsh]

Hi Katy,

So how is that going to work for the defense? They want the jury to believe it was just benign DNA transfer of CMs found in the Trooper.. Okay. Hmmm but then what?

But then what about the trace DNA found in the graves supposedly belonging to 3 males, and one female?

They cant argue one is simply benign DNA of CMs in the victims Trooper, then switch gears totally, by wanting the jury to then believe the trace DNA found in the graves points to the killers.

How do you think the defense will rectify these two totally opposite defense positions? Tia

Imo

What do you mean by "benign" DNA?

 

[Cricket28]

Thank you for your reply.

I really think you are on to something with this.

Regards Mike, unfortunately in cases like these we have to take the witnesses as we find them, and had the family been more on to it, so much of this confusion could be avoided.

But as you correctly point out, the family were themselves taken in and misdirected, and that in turn misdirected the original investigators who simply followed the small amount of evidence they had. I've often wondered if the family themselves suspected Joey was in trouble, and in accessing the house and cleaning up, were trying to be protective.

BBM

I think you might be right. From "Disappeared, Mystery at the Border" Approx. 34:00 mark: (Not verbatim)

Susan Blake: "No matter how bad it was we have been pretty open and always there for them. If he had said Mom I screwed up, done a drug deal, took some money, he probably would tell me... Mom, I need your help. I would be there for him".

I believe that was filmed in early 2011.

MOO

 

[Force Ten]

This a trial to find out who murdered a family of four. It's not going to be easy, and if we only tried guilty persons, there would really be no need for a trial at all, right?

Then you're watching a different trial. This is the State v. Merritt, in a determination if Merritt is guilty by a jury of his peers.

The investigation has already been concluded, we're beyond that phase of the case.

 

[Mony Mony]

Where did Susan get the money for the Chase bank account? I thought I heard them say Joeys Union Bank was frozenans that is why they opened the Chase account. TIA!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, if we follow CJ's conversation with CM, no he didn't follow through.

MOO

Omg, then why in the world is the defense trying to pretend Joey owed CM money? Has he ever said why he didnt repay Susan back all of the thousands he owed? She could have used that for Joey's older son's upkeep. What a lowlife scoundrel.

Imo, CM knew they would not be able to collect the many thousands he owed Joey.

He thought by murdering Joey his debts to him would never be collected, and many of them would remain unknown.

He may not have known at the time that DK knew he owed Joey thousands to repay his gamble debts.

Has it been proven CM did pay off any gambling debts or did he just spend it to gamble more? Tia

 

[fridaybaker]

In that case how do we explain Merritt's DNA in the Trooper?
And Merritt's statement to LE about if he would murder anyone it would be DK?
Looks like CM really hated DK if he said that IMO. Wonder what was up with that?

Karinna, the theory from the DT about the DNA is that it is "transfer" DNA: That the "paintballing" session some time previous, wherein JM and CM drove to/from the session together, Chase sitting in the passenger seat, didn't produce any DNA results (i.e. the on the passenger side of the Trooper) because that "direct" DNA was left, well, some time ago and would have degraded by the time the Trooper was tested.

The places where the DNA was found was much more consistent with being the driver of the Trooper, and was characterized as "Major contributor" =JM; "Minor contributor" = CM; and "Trace contributor" =SM. DT's theory is that this trace DNA from Chase was likely from a handshake or such with Joey very near the time of the disappearance, such as the "lunch meeting at Chik Fil-A".

I think, though, that there are so, so many problems with the whole DNA picture. Firstly, I'm not entirely sure that the steering/driver's side couldn't have been wiped, but not well, which could have resulted in some skewed results in terms of "major/minor/trace. In other words, could it have been wiped, not only not completely, but unevenly?

Also, there is absolutely no evidence that there was ever a handshake between the two. The idea is completely cut out of whole cloth. In fact, many of us have a hard time believing that, if the meeting did indeed happen, it would have ended with a handshake, given the emails/QB/check issues.

There are so many other things, but I do think in this kind of case, where the defendant is well-known to, and has spent much time around the victims and even inside the victims' home, DNA is fairly useless. Not always, of course, but any and every defendant in such a case can claim he "shook hands", etc. with the victim.

Unfortunately, we live more and more in a culture where the "science" is relied upon very heavily. However, as everyone knows, "science" is evolving all the time. It seems in the case of DNA, the results are becoming so exact as to start to become less reliable in some ways, rather than more reliable!

At any rate, in THIS case, I don't put too much stock in the DNA results. Just my opinion.

 

[JMarsh]

Karinna, the theory from the DT about the DNA is that it is "transfer" DNA: That the "paintballing" session some time previous, wherein JM and CM drove to/from the session together, Chase sitting in the passenger seat, didn't produce any DNA results (i.e. the on the passenger side of the Trooper) because that "direct" DNA was left, well, some time ago and would have degraded by the time the Trooper was tested.

The places where the DNA was found was much more consistent with being the driver of the Trooper, and was characterized as "Major contributor" =JM; "Minor contributor" = CM; and "Trace contributor" =SM. DT's theory is that this trace DNA from Chase was likely from a handshake or such with Joey very near the time of the disappearance, such as the "lunch meeting at Chik Fil-A".

I think, though, that there are so, so many problems with the whole DNA picture. Firstly, I'm not entirely sure that the steering/driver's side couldn't have been wiped, but not well, which could have resulted in some skewed results in terms of "major/minor/trace. In other words, could it have been wiped, not only not completely, but unevenly?

Also, there is absolutely no evidence that there was ever a handshake between the two. The idea is completely cut out of whole cloth. In fact, many of us have a hard time believing that, if the meeting did indeed happen, it would have ended with a handshake, given the emails/QB/check issues.

There are so many other things, but I do think in this kind of case, where the defendant is well-known to, and has spent much time around the victims and even inside the victims' home, DNA is fairly useless. Not always, of course, but any and every defendant in such a case can claim he shook hands with the victim.

Unfortunately, we live more and more in a culture where the "science" is relied upon very heavily. However, as everyone knows, "science" is evolving all the time. It seems in the case of DNA, the results are becoming so exact as to start to become less reliable in some ways, rather than more reliable!

At any rate, in THIS case, I don't put too much stock in the DNA results. Just my opinion.

Are you suggesting speculation based on pure conjecture is more reliable than theories based on vetted science?

There are absolutely times when we can't be certain, but science at least has a foundation that has been proven reliable.

 

[JMarsh]

I'm still hoping someone can explain what "benign" DNA is.

 

[Cricket28]

I’m wondering if the stress and counselor was related to something else other than Summer’s ex, the CPS case. One of the sealed warrants is related to that.

Snip

KAYE: While Merritt's theory sounds farfetched, there was evidence there was trouble in Joseph and Summer's marriage. Just days before they disappeared, Joseph had lined up a family counselor for help.

BLAKE: Right after New Year, he had called me and said "Mom, can you help me find a good, you know, counselor and stuff. I want to get my family back on track." So at the end of January when we finally met one that we thought everybody, you know, would feel comfortable with, four days later, they're poof (ph).


CNN.com - Transcripts

BBM

I didn't know that about one of the unsealed warrants. Interesting.

I'm just waiting for the defense to try and get it in somehow that they believe Summer was poisoning Joey.

MOO

 

[smr]

I don't really think that Chase was saying he would kill DK. Chase doesn't seem to have much of a filter. I think he was just blowing off steam. Those two had been in conflict.

If DK had disappeared or been found murdered, Chase could also have been pointed at as a suspect for that, because he's thought to have disliked DK and had conflict with him.

 

[Recidivist]

Are you suggesting speculation based on pure conjecture is more reliable than theories based on vetted science?

There are absolutely times when we can't be certain, but science at least has a foundation that has been proven reliable.

It depends on how much the vetted scientist is being paid?

 

[JMarsh]

If DK had disappeared or been found murdered, Chase could also have been pointed at as a suspect for that, because he's thought to have disliked DK and had conflict with him.

True, I think. No one can argue that Chase didn't make himself a target of this investigation, and in part, I think, this is because he is honest. He doesn't filter. If he doesn't like someone, he says so. And that can make a person unpopular.

 

[JMarsh]

It depends on how much the vetted scientist is being paid?

You could say the same of prosecution witnesses. And that's why it is good if we take it upon ourselves to become better informed on these matters.

 

[Recidivist]

True, I think. No one can argue that Chase didn't make himself a target of this investigation, and in part, I think, this is because he is honest. He doesn't filter. If he doesn't like someone, he says so. And that can make a person unpopular.

Oh, so you think Chase is unpopular because he is too honest?