CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[citygirl]

I went back to the OS from the defense (McGee), apparently it's both degraded and NOT belonging to the McStay's or CM. I didn't recall the "degraded" part. I have looked up the M-Vac process, it's interesting and I can see where DNA could be picked up where a swab missed it. Doing a swab, you are hoping that DNA is found in the specific spot or spots you swab. Doing the M-Vac, they can cover the complete surface, for example, like the electrical cord that was wrapped around Joseph.

DNA from the grave site excludes Charles Merritt. That's correct. Nobody knows this, but us, DNA evidence found inside those graves, we found it. think(?) the investigators when they checked everything, they did a swab, they took a little piece of cotton and said okay is there anything on that? Nope, okay, no DNA. Suzanna Ryan, who is our DNA specialist says no no no you need to do what's called an M-Vac, best way to described it is it's like a wet-vac, it sprays a saline solution, and vacuum all that solution off and it's caught in the filter. It's a hundred times more accurate at picking up DNA than a swab. Through this process she was able to find DNA on almost every item she tested. She'll say it's degraded, it's not something that was just placed there, it's simply broken down from being in the ground. Items that we have tested was stuff that was wrapped around Joseph, so whoever's killing them and wrapping them up that's a good place to look because it's their DNA that's gonna get on that because you get hands sweaty and pulling (?) them off. We also wanted to look at the clothes that were taking off Summers body, so we checked the bra, and the panties. And DNA was found on those items, it was a digital result was generated, those digital results were sent to a company that does a computer software analysis. Preliminary computer analysis is all we have now, final results are due in two days, but they have developed profiles on those five items. They say we should be able to develop profiles, there's four of them, they said they're of unknown subjects meaning it's not the McStay family it's not Charles Merrit, they have been all excluded from the evidence inside the grave. So apparently chase killed this family, buried them, and put someone else's DNA on everything and not his own.


If anyone wants to see what the M-Vac is...

https://www.m-vac.com/

Oh WOW. This is fascinating, Missy. Are they still going with this? Is this to come?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think their defense is imploding. It's all smoke and mirrors.

I am beginning to believe the same Force.

By their big build up about their case, I expected them to blow the doors off, and keep it rolling.

So far it's been a fizzle, and now complete silence.

Are some of the witnesses jumping ship, and the others running into credibility issues?

IDRK, but it sure is strange.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Oh WOW. This is fascinating, Missy. Are they still going with this? Is this to come?

I would assume it's to come, I mean, they did say that they will rest at the end of April, so that leaves April 3rd until the end of April... so they do have witnesses LOL A lot of these 'days off' have been known for a few weeks because they are days jurors or lawyers needed off ... from a tweet from Cathy Russon (I believe on March 13th):

#McStay - Upcoming trial schedule: March 18 - adjourn early, March 27th - afternoon session only. NO COURT: March 21, 25, 26, 28th, April 1, 2. April 3 - Morning session only. Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

 

[Karinna]

I am beginning to believe the same Force.

By their big build up about their case, I expected them to blow the doors off, and keep it rolling.

So far it's been a fizzle, and now complete silence.

Are some of the witnesses jumping ship, and the others running into credibility issues?

IDRK, but it sure is strange.

Imo

I agree, the whole Trial is strange, and very different to any i have followed before.
Everyone involved should of had everything organized by the time the Trial was to commence, because they had plenty of time to do so, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

I would assume it's to come, I mean, they did say that they will rest at the end of April, so that leaves April 3rd until the end of April... so they do have witnesses LOL A lot of these 'days off' have been known for a few weeks because they are days jurors or lawyers needed off ... from a tweet from Cathy Russon (I believe on March 13th):

#McStay - Upcoming trial schedule: March 18 - adjourn early, March 27th - afternoon session only. NO COURT: March 21, 25, 26, 28th, April 1, 2. April 3 - Morning session only. Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

Will be interesting to see what they have actually got.

 

[QueenBofOB]

Oh WOW. This is fascinating, Missy. Are they still going with this? Is this to come?

I wonder if this would be the result, if the white article that JM was wrapped in, was used/touched/sat on, etc. by a couple of other people?

 

[missy1974]

I wonder if this would be the result, if the white article that JM was wrapped in, was used/touched/sat on, etc. by a couple of other people?

From OS's, McGee says things he was wrapped in, but is motioning like he is talking about the cord IMO Also mentioned specifically was Summer's clothes, the bra and panties.

I don't doubt that they maybe tested the blanket as well though and could be explained by others using it.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree, the whole Trial is strange, and very different to any i have followed before.
Everyone involved should of had everything organized by the time the Trial was to commence, because they had plenty of time to do so, IMO.

Yes - this is just bizarre.

I really cannot believe this judge.

 

[asyousay]

I would assume it's to come, I mean, they did say that they will rest at the end of April, so that leaves April 3rd until the end of April... so they do have witnesses LOL A lot of these 'days off' have been known for a few weeks because they are days jurors or lawyers needed off ... from a tweet from Cathy Russon (I believe on March 13th):

#McStay - Upcoming trial schedule: March 18 - adjourn early, March 27th - afternoon session only. NO COURT: March 21, 25, 26, 28th, April 1, 2. April 3 - Morning session only. Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

I am so glad the British system is so different as the millions wasted on this trial is a joke and completely unacceptable.

If the jury needs multiple days off and are the reason why this has come to stand still that is why they should not of taken on the case.

In the UK before being sworn onto a trial if we have holidays or appointments (multiple) they would NOT let you sit on a trail as it’s just a waste of money that the trial would be held up for them. Tax payers don’t like their money being wasted.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, the whole Trial is strange, and very different to any i have followed before.
Everyone involved should of had everything organized by the time the Trial was to commence, because they had plenty of time to do so, IMO.

Exactly.

What makes it so different than every single case I've followed (way too many probably lol) is not only the short days, but the amount of complete dark days where absolutely no testimony is even given.

It's even strange for a CA trial, and that is really saying something! Lol

In all other trials the judges have run trials like a fine oiled machine, with every day productive.

The most delay I have ever seen is when maybe one witness was on the list to testify on a certain day, and something happened where they wouldn't be able to make it that DAY.

So the judge would either adjourn early or tell the attorneys to put on another witness.

They do this for very good reasons. It not only keeps the testimony fresh in the minds of the jury, but it's also cost effective the less time is wasted. But most importantly is the judges were alwayd very mindful of the juries own time. They get paid little to nothing for doing their civic duties, and judges know they have their own lives to take care of as well.

I can understand if a juror has told the judge they must be off for an important reason, but all the down time by not having witnesses available for days or weeks on end, that is what is the most bizarre about this case.

How can ALL of the defense witnesses not be available to testify? ALL of them? Seriously? Something stinks to high heaven about that excuse for it makes no logical sense.

If this death penalty case had been tried in most any other state it would have been done, and over with in 4 to 6 weeks tops, and that would inconclude the sentencing phase if convicted.

Those cases are packed with witnesses nonstop every day of trial without any lull though. Both sides, and the judge are fully prepared to keep the trial fluid until the very end. That's the big difference than this farce of a trial.

So if most all others trials are done much quicker, and much more efficiently, why does these attorneys, and judge have such a big problem with doing what is done over, and over again, efficiently in hundreds of other trials or thousands each year?

Imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo, the worst thing that can make a trial go amok fast is having a weak presiding judge over the trial, where they let the attorneys rule the courtroom.

We saw that fiasco when Judge Ito became so enamoured by being in the national limelight, he forgot to take control of his own courtroom, which was his sole duty , and the only reason he was there.

Something is very strange with this judge too. He never means anything he says. Imo, Maline has known that from day one, so he keeps being unethical anytime he wants to act up, because he already knows this judge is weak, and is all talk, but no action.

The thing I greatly admire are judges who are fair to both sides, but are in full control of their courtroom at all times, and all parties knows it.

They are highly respected judges by both sides, because they both know, these judges mean EXACTLY what they say the first time they say it, and they make sure they adhere to all rules the judges demands they all abide by, and if not, they know there will be hell to pay.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

I am so glad the British system is so different as the millions wasted on this trial is a joke and completely unacceptable.

If the jury needs multiple days off and are the reason why this has come to stand still that is why they should not of taken on the case.

In the UK before being sworn onto a trial if we have holidays or appointments (multiple) they would NOT let you sit on a trail as it’s just a waste of money that the trial would be held up for them. Tax payers don’t like their money being wasted.

I'm in Canada, and our system is very different as well, but with that, we also have pretrial publication bans, and I don't think we have ever had a trial live streamed. Closest we get is 'live tweeted' lol

 

[Force Ten]

I am so glad the British system is so different as the millions wasted on this trial is a joke and completely unacceptable.

If the jury needs multiple days off and are the reason why this has come to stand still that is why they should not of taken on the case.

In the UK before being sworn onto a trial if we have holidays or appointments (multiple) they would NOT let you sit on a trail as it’s just a waste of money that the trial would be held up for them. Tax payers don’t like their money being wasted.

This trial is costing way less than "millions" I'm sure, but a lot of money nonetheless.

I want to know how much of an eroding effect the days off are having on the jurors. They may be at a point where they either don't care for the prosecution and/or defense argument. Or perhaps it's making them more eager to pay attention.

The case in itself is engrossing. I hope more than half the jurors at the very least feel that way and stay attentive enough to have valid discernment to deliberate.

 

[katydid23]

After listening to the testimony below, I believe there would have been blood IMO If you don't want to watch it all, watch part 2 around 41:00, and the beginning of Part 3. McGee goes through all the skull fractures/impacts. She says which one's she would expect to see a laceration due to the force. IMO the chances that there would be no blood is pretty small, if it was just 1 victim, maybe, but with all 4, the chances that all 4 didn't bleed, I find that hard to believe, again, JMO. We have also heard from some of the detectives... Steers is one of them IIRC, that agreed, in his experience, he would have expected to see blood at the crime scene, which is why they went back to the Fallbrook house in 2014.

Dr Chanikarn Changsri - Chief Forensic Pathologist at Coroners office.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting there was no blood shed during the slaughter

The question is could the killer have cleaned thst well or done something to contain much of it at the time

For example
Could he have subdued Joey first somehow
Knocked him out/broken his leg/dragged him outside on a tarp?

Or maybe he killed Joey away from the home. Then returned and killed the family using a large tarp to contain the blood?

 

[travelbug]

This trial is costing way less than "millions" I'm sure, but a lot of money nonetheless.

I want to know how much of an eroding effect the days off are having on the jurors. They may be at a point where they either don't care for the prosecution and/or defense argument. Or perhaps it's making them more eager to pay attention.

The case in itself is engrossing. I hope more than half the jurors at the very least feel that way and stay attentive enough to have valid discernment to deliberate.

I definitely agree! I don't understand how the documentary being filmed could be of any interest. They would have to edit out all of the nonsense and dark days. Even after doing that it's my belief that neither team has delivered any "film worthy" moments since the close of OS. Does anyone else wonder if they (either or both sides) are continuing to drag this out until the end of April (and Smith's retirement) when there will be a mistrial declared. jmho

 

[katydid23]

Seriously though @Tortoise my wild speculation is he put bags on their heads, or maybe put a plastic sheet over Summer and he kids. Then no spatter/castoff.

This was actually shown in The Wire to contain gunshot spray

Perhaps the more interesting aspect is how he kept them quiet. I think Joey was incapacitated in a blitz attack with the others upstairs

I agree that Joey was a blitz Attack

I think he waited for Summrr to take the boys upstairs for their bath. With the water running snd all the noise of 2 young kids playing around, she probably never heard a thing.

Then the devil goes upstairs and puts a knife to her baby’s throat and she would totally comply. He could throw a tarp onto the bathroom floor and kill them there with little clean up needed

As to the noise- neighbors might expect some screaming and tantrums with 2 young kids at home

 

[katydid23]

I could believe that there was a clean up if the house wasn't dirty. But every room, in the pictures, there were clothes, newspapers, painters tape, etc. the floors were dirty. None of that showed signs of "blood". The bathroom... the bathtubs, and shower were dirty still. There was just no signs to me that there was a "clean up" done. Most photo's were taken after the family already did a bit of clean up... so investigators actually even went through the garbage and recycling bins as well. Still no signs of blood on anything. We learned that the new owners only painted the downstairs bathroom (which I believe was just a toilet/sink), so there was not a lot repainted between 2010 and 2014 when they went back. If plastic was used or something over their heads, I would have expected to see that in the graves IMO.

What if he laid down tarps over the ‘dirty’ rooms?

There’s be no blood to clean then

Maybe he threw plastic and other evidence away somewhere else because he was afraid to bury it since it could have his traces somehow?

 

[missy1974]

What if he laid down tarps over the ‘dirty’ rooms?

There’s be no blood to clean then

Maybe he threw plastic and other evidence away somewhere else because he was afraid to bury it since it could have his traces somehow?

Anything is possible, but IMO I don't believe that. There are a ton of theories or possibilities, but if we are using the State's timeline, there are time constraints as well. IMO using their time frame, this had to be done pretty quickly. So laying down tarps, leaving them in the house for any period of time and coming back, etc. just doesn't work for me, there is always something that just doesn't fit. It would also be odd to me that he or anyone would worry about throwing plastic away somewhere else, yet throw the sledgehammer in the graves, but all is JMO.

 

[missy1974]

This trial is costing way less than "millions" I'm sure, but a lot of money nonetheless.

I want to know how much of an eroding effect the days off are having on the jurors. They may be at a point where they either don't care for the prosecution and/or defense argument. Or perhaps it's making them more eager to pay attention.

The case in itself is engrossing. I hope more than half the jurors at the very least feel that way and stay attentive enough to have valid discernment to deliberate.

I think the time off could be good or bad, there is just no way to know right now. Sometimes information overload is not good, but information at a snails pace can be risky that they could forget the little things, and sometimes the little things are the important things.

It will be interesting to hear from the jury after the trial and hear what their thoughts are about the time off, etc. Maybe it's just not that big of a deal to them, maybe they like it? They get to go to work on these days off (if they have jobs) I think, so it might be welcomed.

 

[citygirl]

I definitely agree! I don't understand how the documentary being filmed could be of any interest. They would have to edit out all of the nonsense and dark days. Even after doing that it's my belief that neither team has delivered any "film worthy" moments since the close of OS. Does anyone else wonder if they (either or both sides) are continuing to drag this out until the end of April (and Smith's retirement) when there will be a mistrial declared. jmho

I thought Smith was already retired?