CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[Cricket28]

[QUOTE="Cricket28, post: 14954973, member: 236445"
*snipped by me*
Dr. C: "Around the pelvic area there is a white electrical cord that is tied to a red strap that’s knotted in the back. There’s also an S-shaped metal hook that’s attached to that strap. On the neck area, there’s a white electrical cord tied in the back.”

BBM. I don't remember the S-shaped metal hook. And by this description it sounds like the elec. cord around his pelvic area... and the one around his neck weren't even connected to each other. IDK

Red by me. It's part of a ratchet tie down strap. They come in different colors.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Bernina.

 

[Bernina]

Red by me. It's part of a ratchet tie down strap. They come in different colors.

Thank you Bernina. [/QUOTE]

I totally butchered the quote and reply, lol, sorry 'bout that! Have absolutely no idea why it posted that way!

We have a bunch of those, even one's from military surplus. We use them to strap stuff down tight on trailers, the flatbed, the truck beds, hay stacks, and lumber/pipe racks that are above the truck bed, like Chase's rack on his old truck.
If you're doing any phase of construction, you usually have a bunch kicking around.

 

[missy1974]

I believe it is Netflix. I wonder if they're funding the DT?
MOO

Here is the guy filming. I don't see a connection to Netflix ... not yet anyway. Will not be surprised if they do pick it up down the road, depends on how good the guys is lol

Jon Knautz - IMDb

As for the funding... I still think the State is paying for his defense.

 

[Sharyne]

I just listened to Dr. Changsri's testimony again... There had to be a good amount of blood IMO.
I also noticed a few things that I hadn't before (or forgot about). She said the break to Joey's tibia and his rib were perimortem, meaning they happened right at the time of death. I always thought they were to incapacitate him.

Dr. C: "Around the pelvic area there is a white electrical cord that is tied to a red strap that’s knotted in the back. There’s also an S-shaped metal hook that’s attached to that strap. On the neck area, there’s a white electrical cord tied in the back.”

BBM. I don't remember the S-shaped metal hook. And by this description it sounds like the elec. cord around his pelvic area... and the one around his neck weren't even connected to each other. IDK

Gee, that kind of sounds like being hit by a car for there to be 2 breaks at once, in 2 different places?

 

[Mica]

Here is the guy filming. I don't see a connection to Netflix ... not yet anyway. Will not be surprised if they do pick it up down the road, depends on how good the guys is lol

Jon Knautz - IMDb

As for the funding... I still think the State is paying for his defense.

I think the state is paying for Maline. Wasn’t Maline court appointed when he was with Mettias?

McGee is retained. I also thought I read in a news article that the documentary will be covering the cost of defense fees.

Edited to add...The documentary covering defense costs was also discussed in the L&C chat.

 

[Force Ten]

I think the state is paying for Maline. Wasn’t Maline court appointed when he was with Mettias?

McGee is retained. I also thought I read in a news article that the documentary will be covering the cost of defense fees.

I guess we know what angle the doc is going with.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just listened to Dr. Changsri's testimony again... There had to be a good amount of blood IMO.
I also noticed a few things that I hadn't before (or forgot about). She said the break to Joey's tibia and his rib were perimortem, meaning they happened right at the time of death. I always thought they were to incapacitate him.

Dr. C: "Around the pelvic area there is a white electrical cord that is tied to a red strap that’s knotted in the back. There’s also an S-shaped metal hook that’s attached to that strap. On the neck area, there’s a white electrical cord tied in the back.”

BBM. I don't remember the S-shaped metal hook. And by this description it sounds like the elec. cord around his pelvic area... and the one around his neck weren't even connected to each other. IDK

I think Joey was restrained throughout once it all started, both around his pelvic, groin, high thigh area, most likely when he was restrained or strapped to a chair, and around his neck.

These type of tie down straps tighten down very , very tight with a lot of pressure when ratcheted down. The more the ratchet handle is moved back and forth the tighter, and tighter it will become.

CM could have joined the two tie down straps together. I think he used a stronger restraint against Joey.

But I think he also used some other mechanism to restraint weaker Summer, and the boys. That would be the only way he knew he would be able to control all four. Imo

If he wrapped the painters tape several times around their hands, and feet, once its wound around several times it becomes impossible to break free.

From what I understand about peri mortem it shows them the breaks were done while the victim was still alive. There must have been no signs of any healing like calcium forming which starts to form rather quickly trying to build a protective barrier around the injuries.

It's almost impossible to know excactly though for how long unless it was hours before, and had the chance to start trying to heal on it's own. Anytime the body is injured it tries to start the healing process on its own.

Imo once this all started happening, I do think it all went down very fast after then because he was in a murderous rage against them all.

Imo

 

[Tssiemer]

Do you remember if the remains were found face up or face down?

Up. I’ll never for get that picture of his mouth open like he was screaming.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Up. I’ll never for get that picture of his mouth open like he was screaming.

The poor man probably did scream until he couldnt any longer unless he had bound Joey's mouth by wrapping the tape several times.

Such brutal sadistic murders. It still makes me haunted what they all had to endure.

I hope when he swung the first blow to each of their heads, each were rendered immediately unconscious, and were unaware of the other crushing blows to come.

Imo

 

[travelbug]

Gee, that kind of sounds like being hit by a car for there to be 2 breaks at once, in 2 different places?

Or 2 people assaulting him at the same time. Maybe CM had at least 1 accomplice. The other explanation could be he was attacked by a martial arts expert. I don't know if CM has that training.

 

[citygirl]

The poor man probably did scream until he couldnt any longer unless he had bound Joey's mouth by wrapping the tape several times.

Such brutal sadistic murders. It still makes me haunted what they all had to endure.

I hope when he swung the first blow to each of their heads, each were rendered immediately unconscious, and were unaware of the other crushing blows to come.

Imo

Frightening pic of Joey in the grave. Like the silent scream. But someone pointed out that this was normal decomposition. The lower jaw muscles deteriorate. I do recall as a nurse back in the day giving death care. Way back in the day. Closing their eyes and tying the mouth closed before rigor mortis set in. Eerie.

 

[Bernina]

The poor man probably did scream until he couldnt any longer unless he had bound Joey's mouth by wrapping the tape several times.

Such brutal sadistic murders. It still makes me haunted what they all had to endure.

I hope when he swung the first blow to each of their heads, each were rendered immediately unconscious, and were unaware of the other crushing blows to come.

Imo

Not to sound gruesome, but I wonder if Chase ever worked at a slaughter house (summer job as a high schooler)? Those guys are pretty efficient taking down an animal with one blow and back in the 60/70's, those setups were cheap and didn't use bang sticks for smaller animals. they used 3 lb. sledges, My ex worked one in Nebraska back in the day, and there was very little if any blood if it was done right. The point was to not make a mess because you had to clean it up yourself.

Sorry this is kinda disturbing.

 

[citygirl]

Not to sound gruesome, but I wonder if Chase ever worked at a slaughter house (summer job as a high schooler)? Those guys are pretty efficient taking down an animal with one blow and back in the 60/70's, those setups were cheap and didn't use bang sticks for smaller animals. they used 3 lb. sledges, My ex worked one in Nebraska back in the day, and there was very little if any blood if it was done right. The point was to not make a mess because you had to clean it up yourself.

Sorry this is kinda disturbing.

Bernina, you slay me! I learn so much from your posts.

 

[Bernina]

Bernina, you slay me! I learn so much from your posts.

LOL! What a choice of words........ I guess it's hard to avoid them sometimes, I don't really think about terms until I get here and the "tip toe" filter goes on, lol!

 

[geevee]

I just listened to Dr. Changsri's testimony again... There had to be a good amount of blood IMO.
I also noticed a few things that I hadn't before (or forgot about). She said the break to Joey's tibia and his rib were perimortem, meaning they happened right at the time of death. I always thought they were to incapacitate him.

Dr. C: "Around the pelvic area there is a white electrical cord that is tied to a red strap that’s knotted in the back. There’s also an S-shaped metal hook that’s attached to that strap. On the neck area, there’s a white electrical cord tied in the back.”

BBM. I don't remember the S-shaped metal hook. And by this description it sounds like the elec. cord around his pelvic area... and the one around his neck weren't even connected to each other. IDK

We used to call those bungee cords.

ETA: Wait, bungee's were elastic, not the same, sorry.

 

[Karinna]

Or 2 people assaulting him at the same time. Maybe CM had at least 1 accomplice. The other explanation could be he was attacked by a martial arts expert. I don't know if CM has that training.

The problem is we will never know exactly how CM carried out the murders in sequence, and all we really know is about the fractures on all victims and their being discarded to shallow graves out in the desert,

 

[Karinna]

I think Joey was restrained throughout once it all started, both around his pelvic, groin, high thigh area, most likely when he was restrained or strapped to a chair, and around his neck.

These type of tie down straps tighten down very , very tight with a lot of pressure when ratcheted down. The more the ratchet handle is moved back and forth the tighter, and tighter it will become.

CM could have joined the two tie down straps together. I think he used a stronger restraint against Joey.

But I think he also used some other mechanism to restraint weaker Summer, and the boys. That would be the only way he knew he would be able to control all four. Imo

If he wrapped the painters tape several times around their hands, and feet, once its wound around several times it becomes impossible to break free.

From what I understand about peri mortem it shows them the breaks were done while the victim was still alive. There must have been no signs of any healing like calcium forming which starts to form rather quickly trying to build a protective barrier around the injuries.

It's almost impossible to know excactly though for how long unless it was hours before, and had the chance to start trying to heal on it's own. Anytime the body is injured it tries to start the healing process on its own.

Imo once this all started happening, I do think it all went down very fast after then because he was in a murderous rage against them all.

Imo

BBM, There would of been no healing because JM died. IMO

 

[QueenBofOB]

Gee, that kind of sounds like being hit by a car for there to be 2 breaks at once, in 2 different places?

Maybe CM purposely backed up and hit him, while parking in the driveway? Maybe JM came outside to talk to him, thinking it would be easier to get rid of the guy, if he didn't let him come into the house? JM was already weak, with some sort of "mysterious" affliction. I'm pretty sure it was dark outside, already. Maybe no neighbors around to see anything.

 

[mrjitty]

I've also wondered if Joey was attacked outside - or whether he met Chase somewhere close by, as he didn't want to argue in front of the family.

IMO Joey would have found it difficult to tell Summer about the theft as he should have listened to her all along and possibly felt stupid.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Or 2 people assaulting him at the same time. Maybe CM had at least 1 accomplice. The other explanation could be he was attacked by a martial arts expert. I don't know if CM has that training.

Morning, travelbug, and all. I hope you all had a great weekend.

Imo, I dont really think he had help of any kind, just like none of the other sole prepetrators, who have also killed multiple victims inside of one home, didn't have any help whatsoever either.

They had no help committing the mass murders themselves, nor help in the aftermath, and cover up, including removing the bodies else where ...to their chosen location where they were to be discarded above ground or buried in shallow graves.

CM is very consistent to other murderers like him. who usually place their victim in places they feel are their comfort zones. The desert definitely was his comfort zone area, and very familiar terrain for him.

Many of these same type of sole prepetrators murdered more than two adults victims inside of the victim's home, all right by themselves.

Tragically many such cases involved torture, and even brutal rapes of some of the women, and children before all were murdered by the same perp.

Two of these victim were tiny defenseless easy targets. Neither could protect themselves so they wouldn't even be formidable adversaries against the monster who had murderous rage against them both. They were little sitting ducks for CM..

In every case that I can recall, where multiple murder victims were murdered by one individual, the common denominator is the suspects quickly restrained ALL victims so they could gain full control, over all of their victims. Unless they snuck in, and murdered each one while they were each sound asleep which is far more rare, than when the victims had been awake, and bound at the time it happened.

We know that wasn't the case here though. They were all awake, and mobile at the time before it all began.

Imo, the most logical, and common sense conclusion, is CM also quickly restrained all four before he began his massacre by murdering them one by one.

Once all had been restrained, under his full control, with none of them having any ability to defend themselves nor having any way to protect the others either from what was to happen to each one is when the murders began.. imo.

Imo, the injuries they sustained shows they were restrained, and immobile at the time unable to protect their heads or any part of their bodies.

These were specifically targets blows to specifically targeted areas.

If he was having to chase four mobile moving targets around with the sledgehammer there would have been glancing blows with other crushimg injuries/fractures around their shoulder, upper arm, and chest areas as he wildly swung against fast moving targets trying to flee for their lives.

If they weren't all restrained at the time there would be massive crushing defense injuries to their entire arms, wrists, hands, chests as they tried to shield themselves from the blows,

That's just a normal human reaction when trying to protect themselves, and when shielding others trying to protect them as well.

So for me anyway, I have been fully convinced all along, they were all restrained in some manner at the time all of this began happening through the time it was all over when they all lay dead, and lifeless.

Jmo