CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[la2cabo]

I have to respectfully disagree--he was unable to pay his family's rent on numerous occasions due to his gambling addiction, thus victimizing his family. CM had zero guilt about whom he victimized to feed his gambling addiction.

Um, isn't that what I said? Lol

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If he did it... how could he be that confident knowing his DNA was found in the Trooper? Even if he wore gloves while committing the murders... and wore gloves while driving the Trooper... if he left DNA in one spot, what would make him so confident he didn't leave it in another?

Hi Missy!

Did they say why they didn't select the sledgehammer to be tested? I would have thought that piece of evidence found in the grave would be the most important evidence the defense would want to test.

In fact I think they would have wanted it tested first above all items available, because if it showed someone else's DNA on the actual weapon that would be a very big deal to point out to the jury during closing.

Did they say why they didn't select it to be tested? Since several items were tested, I'm sure the cost wouldn't be outrageous to include it. Maybe even less than a thousand or a little more.

Who made the decision not to test it, and did she say they did want to test it?

As always, TIA!

Imo

 

[Niner]

Oops - I just noticed I didn't put the correct description on what happened yesterday - here it is:
4/10/19 Day 39: Defense witnesses: Christina Nash, DNA analyst employed by Bode Technology. Beatriz Pujols, Forensic Analyst from Cybergenetics. Dr. Mark Perlin, founder of Cybergenetics & the creator of the TrueAllele®technology. Trial continues (without jurors) at 8:30am on 4/11, until 9:30am with jurors.

 

[Mony Mony]

IMO, the defense understood there was an extremely low possibility of viable DNA being found in the grave. The defense opted to test the DNA to then razzle dazzle the jury with the methodology and results. More smoke and mirrors, IMO.

Also, IMO, Suzanna pushed for the testing of the DNA. She and the defense attorneys met at a trade show where she had a booth set up with chocolates in order to get the attorneys to come talk to her (yes, she did testify to this). She was looking to drum up business $$$, and found a buyer. She also made it clear it was unknown if DNA could survive that long in the grave and wanted to see those studies done. IMO, this is a feather in her cap and an entry in her resume that she spearheaded this particular study.

IMO, if results came back pointing to CM, it is likely the defense would have stated the DNA is there due to touch DNA, after all, CM spent a lot of time at the McStay, etc etc etc.

All MOO

 

[Mony Mony]

Also, IMO, they decided NOT to test the sledgehammer because they did not want to risk the extremely low possibility of it coming back positive for CMs DNA. It would be hard to explain that one away with the touch DNA theory.

Suzanna wanted to test the limits of what we know about DNA and where it could be found and how long it would last. Why stop at the sledgehammer? Oh yeah, right, they were constrained by the budget and couldn't afford the $900.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, his lies are still lies, it's more than a belief, they are verifiable lies.

It's hard to keep up with all of his verified lies, and inconsistent statements.

Imo, jurors really pay very close attention to any, and all inconsistent statements made by any defendant.

Often much is learned when paying close attention to the details exposing any variations, lies, and inconsistent statements.

CM is his own worst enemy. He tells so many lies he can't remember them all.

The truth never changes nor has to be memorized. Therein lies the big problem for any pathological liar.

It's obvious he has told so many lies throughout his life, he doesnt even think carefully before saying them.

Just like he rattled on that he didnt know who all had been asked to take a polygraph or who agreed to take one, but then says HE is the only ONE who agreed to take one. That absurd lie still makes my head spin.

He lied trying to pretend he was the only one who agreed.

He must always build himself no matter how bizarre, and inconsistent his statements are thinking no one else will catch what he actually said.

Conveniently he leaves out the two polygraph results about his two inconsistencies. Were they? 1. Do you know the whereabouts of the McStay family? 2. Were you involved in their disappearance?

When there are any inconsistencies in a polygraph examination a person does not pass. So he lied about that too.

No matter his poly results, the police knew they aren't admissible nor enough for an arrest of anyone.

They need evidence, and thankfully once the bodies were found a true homicide investigation kicked into high gear.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

Right. But what CM did to his son wasn't just a smack on the butt, he outright abused the little boy for a 2 hour session. Where was the mother in all of this i wonder? And it makes me shudder to think what else he did to his children in that regard? He's a .

Agreed - this is exactly what happens.

People like CM get away with child abuse by claiming it was reasonable smacking.

And apologists let it happen.

 

[mrjitty]

It still doesn't really answer my curiosity of why he would take that chance with this cybergenetic testing. Again jmo

What's actually the deal with that in the US?

If the defence lab found his DNA in the grave, would they tell anyone?

The cases I have followed have been the other way around where the defence needed to discredit state DNA evidence

As such the defence experts opinion is set in stone before they start work

 

[KALI]

This gives good insight into who Joey was. I'm so sad how he was brutally tortured and murdered. I pray that somehow, he did not have to see what was done to his family.
I think the prosecutors should have the jurors read this. It shows what a human he was, instead of just a name. Imo

Yes. People need to read Joey's letter to his webmaster which reveals his thinking about DK

As I understand it, the threat was to withdraw Joey's SEO backlinks which would in effect kill the traffic. Not a personal threat. Such things happen in the webgame because the website is the leverage the developer has over the client to get paid. So this threat was to Joey's livelihood.

As someone who has had these types of arguments, it tends to be why I don't go any of these site JVs because either you never get paid, or if the business goes well, they try and force you out!

So no comment on DK specifically as I don't know him, but my reading is he was somewhat naive and bit the hand that feeds (devs often do this as they can be very egotistical) but also devs do tend to get justifiably miffed when they achieve really great results and then aren't recognised for it.

And as Corn notes, Joey did not appear to deny that he was partners with DK.

As you are well aware, it’s been extremely difficult these past months due to I think primarily this dismal economy and we do sell a “luxury item” which is the 1st to go when people are simply trying to survive and only buy necessities. We haven’t formally met… I simply pay you folks each month these past years. I allowed Dan to deal with you since he is the SEO specialist for the site….

As of recently, due to the declining sales, etc., Dan Kavanaugh and myself have been having a “falling out.” To give you some history: We met around 2001 when he helped build our Electronics Website and we became friends. He is extremely talented, but young. So, from time to time he’d need $$$, I’d give it to him and he’d give me software, etc. He was just a kid at 21-22 back then. He didn’t have a car, so I let him use a Volks Vanagon I wasn’t using to help him out.

I’ve been doing building fountains since 1998 and originally built earthinspiredproducts.com in 2000. I’m passionate about fountains. I built them & love them. It’s not just for $$$ for me. The site didn’t do much till 2005 when I got
together with Dan & suggested we revamp EIP from the dead and give it a go. Then 1,000’s
of hours redesigning began, re-establishing relationships with past vendors, etc. A lot of
late nights & coffee among other things.

Since then with your help, PPC, etc. we’ve built it up pretty good. Yet 2008 was tough at times and extremely difficult this past 3 months in particular.

I’m 39 years old, have a wife & 3 kids. Dan is 28, single, no kids. Very few responsibilities &
parties like a rock star, heck can’t blame him.

But, the success of eip is much more critical to me than to him. I can’t couch hop as he could, I have mouths to feed. mI know from experience, that you “have to save up for the rainy day” and I did now for 4 yrs. Dan never did. Whether he made $3,000 or $8,000 in a month, it was gone as soon as he got it. I was raised by a single Mom who was like a
father & mom to me, strong & solid w/ a good work ethic, Dan didn’t have that luxury. It was difficult for him, thus it’s made him who he is, Abandonment issues, Lack of Trust, etc.

Having said all the above, Dan has become quite malicious towards me to the point of
affecting my family. Please see IM string below. It’s quite sad, since we considered him like family, w/ my 2 youngest calling him “uncle Dan.” I would appreciate your input and any help you could recommend. Fountains are my life, EIP feeds my family.
I can’t have EIP disappear o the face of the earth and end up back in a cubicle working for
someone else. But, if I have to for me and my family to survive, I will. I do wish the best for Dan. I will not be malicious as he is being. And perhaps we can work through this or part ways amicably, I don’t know.

Either way, I wanted to give you folks a “heads up” on the situation. I appreciate your help.​

 

[Cricket28]

Thank you.

KALI, I actually thought about you as I was writing that post.

I have found your posts profound, always making sure the Joey McStay family is never forgotten or what happened to all of them, and how they all were brutally murdered.

I appreciate your endearing reminders which are much needed at times. IMOO

We must never forget these 4 victims or how they were all murdered in cold blood in the most unimaginable sadistic way.

It is a stark frightening reminder that evil truly does walk among us all.

I'm haunted by cases like this one, where the suspect exhibited such sadist brutality against their victims.

Whether it was the Groene family who were bludgeoned to death by Joe Duncan or Heinz Jr bludgeoning to death 8 victims or what the 3 SS family, and their maid endured at the hands of Daron Wint or the 4 Gee family members who were all murdered with a tire iron by the monster who took their lives from them.

I could keep naming other cases of mass murder by using a bludgeoning weapon but the list is sadly too long.

These kind of cases have always stuck with me. I have always felt bludgeoning victims to death is the most barbaric and brutal way to murder anyone, and knowing CM did this to two tiny little boys is too much to bear for me at times

Jmo

BBM

I am WAY behind and trying to catch up.
I think about the poor Gee family all the time OBE. The little 2 year old girl was the only one who survived her injuries, the rest of the family was beaten with the tire iron by ONE person.
SICK SICK SICK people in the world we live in.

MOO

 

[gitana1]

Yes and IIRC the priors are in evidence because the defence made a blunder and raised them in their pleadings. So the State may now reference them in terms of the accused's character - especially relevant when it appears the accused was stealing from the victim Joey McStay

Yes. If the defense brought them up then they are now admissible.

Otherwise evidence of prior bad acts is not except for limited reasons such as to show motive, intent, etc. It can also be introduced to attack credibility. So if a defendant says they are a good guy. An honest person. Peaceful. Evidence of past crimes can be introduced to attack their credibility.

(b) Nothing in this section prohibits the admission of evidence that a person committed a crime, civil wrong, or other act when relevant to prove some fact (such as motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake or accident, or whether a defendant in a prosecution for an unlawful sexual act or attempted unlawful sexual act did not reasonably and in good faith believe that the victim consented) other than his or her disposition to commit such an act.

(c) Nothing in this section affects the admissibility of evidence offered to support or attack the credibility of a witness.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EVID&sectionNum=1101.

 

[Karinna]

What's actually the deal with that in the US?

If the defence lab found his DNA in the grave, would they tell anyone?

The cases I have followed have been the other way around where the defence needed to discredit state DNA evidence

As such the defence experts opinion is set in stone before they start work

BBM, Probably not, but the PT should of done their own DNA testing with their own experts, and could perhaps refute the DT's experts on rebuttal?

 

[Mony Mony]

BBM, Probably not, but the PT should of done their own DNA testing with their own experts, and could perhaps refute the DT's experts on rebuttal?

But is there anything to refute? I am still listening to Perlin, but from I am gathering here is that there wasn't anything earth shattering found.

 

[Karinna]

But is there anything to refute? I am still listening to Perlin, but from I am gathering here is that there wasn't anything earth shattering found.

Not sure? The PT might find some questions about certain testing etc. they did or something like that?
If they have any questions to ask that is?

 

[MrsPC]

I'm still waiting on part 4 from yesterday (the cross examination of Perlin) on L&C...I wonder what the holdup is???

 

[mrjitty]

Yes. If the defense brought them up then they are now admissible.

Otherwise evidence of prior bad acts is not except for limited reasons such as to show motive, intent, etc. It can also be introduced to attack credibility. So if a defendant says they are a good guy. An honest person. Peaceful. Evidence of past crimes can be introduced to attack their credibility.

(b) Nothing in this section prohibits the admission of evidence that a person committed a crime, civil wrong, or other act when relevant to prove some fact (such as motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake or accident, or whether a defendant in a prosecution for an unlawful sexual act or attempted unlawful sexual act did not reasonably and in good faith believe that the victim consented) other than his or her disposition to commit such an act.

(c) Nothing in this section affects the admissibility of evidence offered to support or attack the credibility of a witness.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EVID&sectionNum=1101.

Thanks

Similar fact evidence was one part of Evidence 300 I actually enjoyed but I pretty much forgot all the detail of it now

I remember if the defence tries to plead character it can open the floodgates to all the dirt!

 

[smr]

Wow

Textbook domestic abuse doesn't exactly fit with the profile of "the kindest people"

Suggests anger management issues and extreme lack of empathy.

Opinions and experiences differ. Wow to "wow".

 

[MrsPC]

yeah Part 4

 

[katydid23]

Opinions and experiences differ. Wow to "wow".

Sure, opinions differ.

But in my opinion it is rare to meet someone who hears about a man hitting a 4 yr old repeatedly for 2 hours, and then saying their opinion of that man goes up and they declare him a loving father. Most people find these actions questionable if not despicable. JMO IMO MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Sure, opinions differ.

But in why opinion it is rare to meet someone who hears about a man hitting a 4 yr old repeatedly for 2 hours, and then saying their opinion of that man goes up and they declare him a loving father. Most people find these actions questionable if not despicable. JMO IMO MOO

My opinion of this guy couldn’t possibly be any lower, and that’s not even factoring in the quadruple murder.

That anecdote paints a picture, a disturbing one.

Consistent with his character though.