CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[Karinna]

What are the upcoming schedules? Days and witnesses?

Niner posted it up a few pages ago. Post # 393 Page 20 of this thread.

 

[smr]

Niner posted it up a few pages ago. Post # 393 Page 20 of this thread.

Thank you.

 

[Cricket28]

Weren't Joey and Summer moving the car seats around the vehicles? Weren't the toys found in the Trooper? IMO, unless they submit proof Summer did not drive the Trooper, I will have a hard time believing she did not drive the Trooper. MOO.

Also, surely Joey touched the same household items as Summer. The defense is throwing out the whole "touch DNA" story. Joey and Summer lived in the same house. I am guessing Joey would have touched the same doorknobs, refrigerator handles, hand towels, etc. MOO if the defense wants to present the (ridiculous) "touch DNA" theory, then it would apply to Summer and Joey and their household items as well.

MOO, IMO, etc etc.

Remember the video where Joey is taking Summer and kids to the Avo house for the first time? Summer is driving and Joey is recording the trip from the passenger seat. Although they do trade off and switch places at some point before they get to the house.

However, I remember seeing a few pics of Summer behind the wheel of the green truck too. In one of the pics Bear is her passenger in the front and you can see the boys in their car seats in the back.

MOO

 

[Frankie Hellis]

But what has all this proven so far at Trial? How has the low level DNA been explained so far? For a jury to understand?

Not yet. This witness is just laying the foundation for the next two. One will be from Bode Labs and will explain their results and the other from Cybergenics and will explain their results.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

My point is that you can't fault the defense for not testing something with a method that the State clearly has the ability to do as well. Whether they think it will work or not. They are the one's that have to prove he is guilty.

I don't think there is going to be any denying that they found some sort of DNA that swabbing didn't find, or it found more where the swabbing also found low levels of DNA. The question will be what that DNA means, and that will be left up for debate IMO

I really don't understand the logic that they didn't test the sledgehammer because Merritt's DNA might have been on it, how were they so confident in testing any of the evidence found in the grave then? Why even try? Would have been easier to argue that the State could have tried with their own MVac machine and didn't then they tried and got some DNA.

The logic is that they tested the items that were most likely to show someone else’s dna, someone other than Merritt. Ryan requested many items to be tested, but many were not approved. The sledge hammer was not approved, even though SB found low level dna on it. The implication being that whoever was approving the items for mvac by Ryan didn’t want to learn more about the low level dna on the sledge hammer handle.

 

[katydid23]

McGee snarkily stated if money was no object, they would have tested the sledgehammer for DNA. He also let it slip the cost is $900. As in 9 HUNDRED dollars! Seriously! How much was Suzanna's bill? And they couldn't spare $900? BS! They strategically opted not to test it. MOO IMO

If Chase was innocent he could have come up with 900 bucks to prove his innocence

 

[mrjitty]

If Chase was innocent he could have come up with 900 bucks to prove his innocence

Exactly - why wouldn't you exhaust this one key possibility?

 

[missy1974]

The logic is that they tested the items that were most likely to show someone else’s dna, someone other than Merritt. Ryan requested many items to be tested, but many were not approved. The sledge hammer was not approved, even though SB found low level dna on it. The implication being that whoever was approving the items for mvac by Ryan didn’t want to learn more about the low level dna on the sledge hammer handle.

What makes those items more likely they would come back with other than Merritt DNA? If he murdered them, who do you think tied those knots? Or cut Summer's bra? Or pulled the sweatpants off? If the straps and the cord could have other's DNA on it, why couldn't the sledgehammer?

 

[missy1974]

If Chase was innocent he could have come up with 900 bucks to prove his innocence

The State was going to pay for it either way, they could have done it as well, and didn't. $900 was her cost + her hourly rate, I wonder how much it would have cost the County lab to do it? Who knows, maybe they are planning on it now, like they did with the key, do it after the defense questions why they didn't. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

The point is that the defence are asserting here - so they have to provide the evidence

The state is not asserting anything about the hammer. So strange to claim they needed to mvac it. The state used a different process

Otherwise we end up in a situation where the state has to use the defences preferred testing methodology.

 

[mrjitty]

And again... can you explain to me why the State didn't MVac it then? If they are SO sure that it's Merritt, what is their excuse? Like Ryan said, she is mainly a consultant for the defense because they don't have their own labs, so why is it up to the defense to do that test? Either way the State is paying for it... so who cares, right?

BIB

Because he who asserts must prove

 

[Karinna]

I think with the Low level DNA from the grave site, unless it can be proven by the DT as to where exactly it came from and how it was deposited and by whom, it will be very questionable to the jurors. And as they have brought this matter up at Trial, they need to prove something with it, or it should be dismissed as evidence, IMO.

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, April 9th:
*Trial continues (Day 38-Day 37 for L&C) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (53 @ time of crime/now 60 (61 on 5/2)) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women.
Trial Days (1-36; 1/17/19 thru 4/5/19) reference post #393 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15
4/8/19 Day 37 (Day 36 for L&C): Defense witness: Suzanna Ryan, described & demonstrated the M-Vac forensic DNA collection system. Trial continues on 4/9.
Schedule for week of April 8th to 12th: Court on April 8 (Monday), April 9 (Tuesday), and April 10 (Wednesday). April 11 (Thursday)-NO jurors-Other hearing: Microsoft & Google Motion to Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum & Documentary crew interview w/Merritt. DARK on April 12 (Friday). Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

 

[mrjitty]

I think with the Low level DNA from the grave site, unless it can be proven by the DT as to where exactly it came from and how it was deposited and by whom, it will be very questionable to the jurors. And as they have brought this matter up at Trial, they need to prove something with it, or it should be dismissed as evidence, IMO.

It's good mudslinging though

 

[Karinna]

BIB

Because he who asserts must prove

That's what i think too. What efforts did the DT make to test the DNA against other people that attended at the grave site, as in the people that excavated the scene? There was also animal interference, so did that factor in at all? Etc.
So in order to convince a jury i feel the DT should at least have made the effort to prove someone else helped with the crime, because the state IMO has already made the case against Merritt with other DNA evidence in JM's vehicle, and all the other evidence that points to him.What they had was good enough to take the case to trial and try to get a conviction with what they have.

 

[Karinna]

It's good mudslinging though

Yes exactly.

 

[katydid23]

The State was going to pay for it either way, they could have done it as well, and didn't. $900 was her cost + her hourly rate, I wonder how much it would have cost the County lab to do it? Who knows, maybe they are planning on it now, like they did with the key, do it after the defense questions why they didn't. IMO

They probably thought there would not be any DNA left by Chase. He would have likely cleaned it before burying it with the bodies

It would have looked bad if they’d tested it snd it came back clean

 

[Karinna]

They probably thought there would not be any DNA left by Chase. He would have likely cleaned it before burying it with the bodies

It would have looked bad if they’d tested it snd it came back clean

Was Merritt' truck ever tested? I guess if he placed the murder victims in the back of his truck there could have been someone else's DNA transferred from there onto the victims and into the graves.
Although he could well have washed out the back of his truck before LE took it for forensic testing if they did that?

 

[Karinna]

Kind of like what Chris Watts did to put the murdered victims in his work truck from his garage, and take them out to where he worked at the oil fields, and buried his wife in a shallow grave and the little girls in the oil tanks. Except neighbours witnessed him in the early morning placing something in his truck, and in this case there were no witnesses to anything unfortunately.

 

[Tortoise]

But what has all this proven so far at Trial? How has the low level DNA been explained so far? For a jury to understand?

This is yet more defense strategy of smoke and mirrors.

If we understand that trial lawyers always work to the maxim of never asking a question that they don't already know the answer to, the same most definitely applies to the DNA testing.

McGee has to have accepted the likelihood that Merritt is guilty.

He needs to create the illusion that they are so confident his DNA would not be in the graves that they threw caution to the wind and allowed Suzanna Ryan to do her best to get them some identifiable results. But her lab wasn't even accredited. In many ways it's a sign that the defense trusted the work of Donald Jones. As regards the amplification process I think quite probably useless in is useless amplified. Suzanna Ryan can't say when the DNA got there. Summer's own DNA wasn't on her own underwear and bra. It was always going to be a futile exercise and that's why McGee took it on - someone who touched her underwear fleetingly would leave traces of their DNA behind but she as the wearer and the body that decomposed on the garments wouldn't.

It's all good though - the evidence must withstand scrutiny from every angle. When the verdict comes back which I hope is going to be guilty, we never know what a jury or juror will do, the more mud the defense has thrown at it and the jury has rejected the better.

ALL MOO JMO IMO (with low-level DNA and alleles understanding).