CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

[mrjitty]

Maybe I should start a poll about the location of the murders.

I haven't set up a poll before so I'm not sure how to do it but I'll have a go.

I'll try and gather some input on what options to include -

All four killed in the house
All four killed elsewhere
Summer and children killed at house and Joey killed elsewhere
Joey killed at house and Summer and children killed elsewhere

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Maybe not a suggestion but I feel regardless of the actual murder site, there is definitely a hidden "in between place" where the bodies were stored.

Usually in these kind of murders there are 3 "crime scenes" and the middle one is a place closely controlled and secure for the killer.

The dumping ground is only the end point and often the "zwischenraum" is never discovered.

 

[Karinna]

IMO, the backdated checks and the posing as JM to erase QB is irrefutable proof of CMs guilt. The phone pings at the graves, his DNA on the gearshift, the faro scan are just icing on the cake. IMO. Oh, and CMs lack of credible alibi on the 4th. The way CM "envisions" that evening, he was home with CJ.

IMO MOO etc at

BBM, This most definitely proves Merritt is the culprit. Why would he be impersonating Joey to have QB's removed when he had absolutely no authority to be messing with Joey's QB accounts in the first place? Unless of course he knew JM was already deceased.
And then 3 emails by QB's rep. to respond to as required by them, because they were suspicious by what the caller Merritt was asking them to do. To which of course he never responded to those emails as it would leave a trail in print on an email back to QB's, and he wasn't going to risk that. Unless they were asking him information he didn't know, so couldn't reply?

 

[Karinna]

Maybe not a suggestion but I feel regardless of the actual murder site, there is definitely a hidden "in between place" where the bodies were stored.

Usually in these kind of murders there are 3 "crime scenes" and the middle one is a place closely controlled and secure for the killer.

The dumping ground is only the end point and often the "zwischenraum" is never discovered.

Agree, & there is no way for the PT or the DT to know exactly where the McStay family were murdered unless the killer confesses to that, and most don't confess.
And the prosecutors don't have to prove that anyway to get a conviction. All that is proven in that respect is that they were all victims of murder from the autopsy reports.

 

[asyousay]

Have the defense mentioned the knife yet that they brought up in the opening?

I am sure they mentioned DK holding one of the children at knife point. Yet I don’t think they have brought it up since?

 

[Tortoise]

BBM, This most definitely proves Merritt is the culprit. Why would he be impersonating Joey to have QB's removed when he had absolutely no authority to be messing with Joey's QB accounts in the first place? Unless of course he knew JM was already deceased.
And then 3 emails by QB's rep. to respond to as required by them, because they were suspicious by what the caller Merritt was asking them to do. To which of course he never responded to those emails as it would leave a trail in print on an email back to QB's, and he wasn't going to risk that. Unless they were asking him information he didn't know, so couldn't reply?

BBM That's what I think too.

 

[Karinna]

I also think he left that black light there.

IMO

Yes, from what i read that black light was a real mystery. And it didn't belong to any LE.
(quote)
According to Glo Bright, a black light is generally used to illuminate bedroom posters or glowing paint used in places like bowling alleys, haunted houses, amusement parks and miniature golf courses. A black light can be used for illuminating crime scenes in search of biological substances like urine and blood.
What Is a Black Light Used For?

 

[Tortoise]

Have the defense mentioned the knife yet that they brought up in the opening?

I am sure they mentioned DK holding one of the children at knife point. Yet I don’t think they have brought it up since?

They can't bring that in without Tracey Riccobene testifying to it.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

I just noticed it was his birthday last week, on the 2nd.

62 years old now.

 

[Karinna]

I just noticed it was his birthday last week, on the 2nd.

62 years old now.

Doing okay for someone that only had a few months to live,

 

[asyousay]

I just noticed it was his birthday last week, on the 2nd.

62 years old now.

Gianna would be a teenager if this piece of crap hadn’t massacred the family.

 

[Karinna]

Gianna would be a teenager if this piece of crap hadn’t massacred the family.

It's just so sad and my heart breaks for them all, especially those beautiful little boys who were so innocent,
How truly evil some people can be.

 

[asyousay]

It's just so sad and my heart breaks for them all, especially those beautiful little boys who were so innocent,
How truly evil some people can be.

The whole thing is absolutely horrific because Joey and Summer knew who was doing it to them.

I just hope with the boys and their ages being what they were they had no idea what was going on. But the adults I can not imagine the pain and suffering they would of gone though that night. Just imagine Joey who had given that man everything and his thanks was to murder his family in front of him.

 

[Karinna]

The whole thing is absolutely horrific because Joey and Summer knew who was doing it to them.

I just hope with the boys and their ages being what they were they had no idea what was going on. But the adults I can not imagine the pain and suffering they would of gone though that night. Just imagine Joey who had given that man everything and his thanks was to murder his family in front of him.

Exactly and i can't even imagine or really want to imagine it is so horrific. It's also difficult to think that those types of monsters just look like your everyday average person, who also have families of their own. Talk about Jekyll & Hyde types, it's quite frightening really what they are capable of.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Zero solid proof. DK threatened JM. Whether it's a year or a month before, he threatened. CM never did. DK has more motive for the murder than CM. DK profited immensely from the murder, CM lost business opportunity because of the murder.

We really have no idea if CM ever threatened Joey as well. Dead men can't speak.

Imo, CM wouldn't do it by email. It would be face to face or during one of their phone calls.

Imo, with all of the trial evidence entered against CM it's obvious the one Joey had to fear the most was Merritt.

Imo, I think Joey found himself in an abusive relationship with his sub contractor. CM. Like so many abused victims they are afraid to get out of the toxic relationship fearing what may happen if they do.

When they finally try to part ways is very often the most dangerous time for them, where they can be murdered by the abuser.

Imo. But Joey had finally had enough, and was making a stand. He had already pushed CM out of the big money making aspects. MSM then was doing what CM had been doing, and he more or less was only doing odds and ends jobs making far far less.

How I wish Joey could come back, and tell everyone the truth about everything he had endured, and all the problems CM had caused him.

Of course that can't ever happen so the untold truth will remain untold.

JMOO

 

[missy1974]

I thought i posted about this but must have got distracted

At the end of testimony from Forensic dude there is a fascinating sidebar about admissibility of some taped testimony.

I understood the debate to be as follows *

(* please not I am not a US law expert and have not worked in law since the 90s!!)

As I understood it, the State already introduced some Chase taped statements from Police interviews. e.g some of the 2010 interviews were played to the Court. This does not mean all tapes are admissible. For example, both sides appear to accept discussion of the lie detector test is not admissible.

The defence wish to play large sections of testimony from different interviews separated in time. So my guess is they mean to play not only 2010 interviews, but interviews after Chase's arrest in 2014.

Both the state and the Judge appear to accept that other sections of the 2010 interviews are admissible where they relate to the same question and issue.

So for example if Chase was answering a question in 2010 that the state played in evidence - the defence can play a different section of the same interview where Chase clarified his answer or addressed the same issue.

The defence appeared to be arguing that where Chase addressed the same issue, separated in time, (i.e, years later) then the subsequent answer is now admissible.

So this would mean if he gave an improved or different explanation in 2014 - the defence wants that to come in.

State argued that the admissibility only extends to answers in the same interview and the judge appeared to agree. However the judge invited the defence to submit authorities for their argument.

We don't know the result of that side bar.

My uneducated guess is that the defence want to use the arrest interviews to introduce Chase's version. And I guess this all has something to do with the 2010 interview being as a witness in the investigation whereas the 2014 interview is as a suspect.

Was it a sidebar or a hearing? There is a small 9 minute clip of a 'hearing' after the jury left on Day 49. That was in regards to wiretap audio's that Det. Steer's testified about earlier in the trial.

 

[Tortoise]

Anybody venture to guess what is on the agenda for tomorrow? Is Bachman still on? I hope the prosecution puts out irrefutable evidence of DKs alibi.

I must be the only one who doesn't care if they put out more evidence of his alibi or not. To me it's just a sideshow and there is way too much evidence against Merritt to give DK even a second blink.

If the case was only about motive then I'd understand and say no one should be charged, but it's not, it's about Merritt's giant footprints being all over the murders, figuratively speaking. If people want DK's alibi in stone then they aren't convinced, to the required standard, it was Merritt. I don't think anything would satisfy people who think DK did it in terms of alibi evidence, barring him being in a police cell on the relevant dates. Anything could be manufactured such as people who saw him lying or being scared of him, other people using his phone and bank card etc. But that's JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He was persuasive to a degree. The former blogger who became so enamored with Merritt that he about went berserk persuaded many gullible people that Josephs own brother killed him. And a few still try to slyly insinuate this might be true on other boards

Sadly, it's true that conman are very good at what they do.

After murdering Joey, and his family CM went right on to con two other business men out of thousands.

So its evident CM talks a good game when conning others.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

Was it a sidebar or a hearing? There is a small 9 minute clip of a 'hearing' after the jury left on Day 49. That was in regards to wiretap audio's that Det. Steer's testified about earlier in the trial.

it's the 8 hour LE interview relating to detective Bachman discussed at the end of day 48

Maline submits the defence is entitled to play the entire interview redacted for all polygraph material

State submits under "356" they are not entitled to.

Judge summarises defence contention that if the State plays an interview about something Chase said in conversation 1, then the defence can produce a similar conversation from a different tape re conversation 2 months or years later or earlier.

Judge indicates he believes the defence contention is incorrect but that they will have a hearing with submissions on the matter.

 

[Tortoise]

it's the 8 hour LE interview relating to detective Bachman discussed at the end of day 48

Maline submits the defence is entitled to play the entire interview redacted for all polygraph material

State submits under "356" they are not entitled to.

Judge summarises defence contention that if the State plays an interview about something Chase said in conversation 1, then the defence can produce a similar conversation from a different tape re conversation 2 months or years later or earlier.

Judge indicates he believes the defence contention is incorrect but that they will have a hearing with submissions on the matter.

California Code, Evidence Code - EVID § 356 | FindLaw

 

[missy1974]

Have the defense mentioned the knife yet that they brought up in the opening?

I am sure they mentioned DK holding one of the children at knife point. Yet I don’t think they have brought it up since?

hmmm no a knife specifically, but the bra being cut has. I believe in Heather Radeleff's testimony (Crime scene specialist) and I'm sure more but can't recall at the moment lol It's more pointing it out that it 'appears' to have been cut.