CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[Sillybilly]

Post have been removed. The victim's family is not on trial here for what they did or did not do subsequent to their loved ones disappearing.

Please move on from that discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Mony Mony]

Here is a lighthearted question for both sides:
So far, who is your favorite witness?

Mine is Mr. Gregg M. Stutchman.

My second most favorite witness is CJ and when she ripped CM a new one on that recorded call. And when she sounded so defeated on cross. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

One can have motive, means, opportunity, and yet not committed the murder. E.g. suppose I desperately needs money, have a billionaire neighbor who is 95 years old living alone, whom I visit once in a while. You could say I have the motive, means, ability and opportunity to murder the neighbor, but I would never murder anyone.

Yes, but you can't prove you didn't do it. You have the Motive - Means - Opportunity
which ADDED to the other circumstantial evidence --- a totality of the evidence ---
could aid in a guilty verdict.

 

[la2cabo]

My second most favorite witness is CJ and when she ripped CM a new one on that recorded call. And when she sounded so defeated on cross. IMO

I think Merritt's sister was quite humorous, albeit very dishonest with her testimony, in my opinion.

 

[la2cabo]

Yes, but you can't prove you didn't do it. You have the Motive - Means - Opportunity
which ADDED to the other circumstantial evidence --- a totality of the evidence ---
could aid in a guilty verdict.

I've said a few times the evidence against Merritt has to be looked at as a whole. Each piece individually may not mean much but the totality of it all means a lot.

 

[Karinna]

I've said a few times the evidence against Merritt has to be looked at as a whole. Each piece individually may not mean much but the totality of it all means a lot.

Agree that it's a culmination of events and the evidence that led straight to CM, and the reason he was consequently arrested and charged.

 

[QueenBofOB]

But he did when his interviews were played. IMO

And, also when his jail house recordings were played.

 

[Bernina]

And, also when his jail house recordings were played.

...and the phone conversation with CJ that was taped before his arrest.

 

[MrsPC]

Oh my goodness...it's clear we've all been waiting on a conclusion to this trial for far too long. Praying the trial goes to the jury VERY soon!

 

[Karinna]

I wonder if JM or SM's families can file a Wrongful Death claim after trial?
And perhaps JM's surviving child would have such a case.
Wrongful Death Lawsuits in California

 

[Recidivist]

I wonder if JM or SM's families can file a Wrongful Death claim after trial?
And perhaps JM's surviving child would have such a case.
Wrongful Death Lawsuits in California

They might be able to, but Chase has zero assets.

 

[Sillybilly]

Note: It seems the San Bernardino County Sentinel was previously unapproved as an MSM source (not sure who unapproved it; may have been Tricia). Regardless, the above posts that were removed constituted a copyright violation because you can't avoid the 10% copyright rule by just copying/pasting into separate posts.

 

[mrjitty]

Note: It seems the San Bernardino County Sentinel was previously unapproved as an MSM source (not sure who unapproved it; may have been Tricia). Regardless, the above posts that were removed constituted a copyright violation because you can't avoid the 10% copyright rule by just copying/pasting into separate posts.

Does the trial transcript count as a public record? We suspect the sentinel got it from the defence team

 

[wary]

Right, only Merritt has been charged. But this is the TRIAL thread, and part of the TRIAL strategy from the defense is pointing the finger elsewhere, mostly DK, so it is now part of the TRIAL.

Also part of the TRIAL, the defense has said that LE had tunnel vision and that there was confirmation bias, so of course there is only evidence against Merritt, that's part of the defense, and again, part of the TRIAL. We are all free to have an opinion, and decide whether we can accept or reject those theories presented at trial. JMO

I think that tunnel vision and confirmation bias—rush to judgement—has been part of the defense claims on every trial I’ve paid attention to.

 

[Karinna]

They might be able to, but Chase has zero assets.

Yes that's true but if he is acquitted and gets a book deal or anything else that profits him from the murders then it would go to the McStay family and not to CM.

 

[katydid23]

Note: It seems the San Bernardino County Sentinel was previously unapproved as an MSM source (not sure who unapproved it; may have been Tricia). Regardless, the above posts that were removed constituted a copyright violation because you can't avoid the 10% copyright rule by just copying/pasting into separate posts.

The article that I took the transcript from was much longer than just the transcript.

But I thought we were allowed to copy things like public transcripts?

 

[mrjitty]

I am not a big fan of Statement Analysis - however I do believe we can learn a lot from people's natural choice of words and what they choose to focus on.

For example (this is only a small snippet due to copyright restrictions)

Merritt: Well, I don’t know what to say. I have no recollection of driving to Fallbrook on the 4th. I have no recollection of even having any reason to be there. And to the best of my knowledge, I was at home. So there’s – I mean, do I remember getting Joseph’s phone call? No. I told you that. If I did, I would tell you. I actually in going over the conversations with [San Diego County Sheriff’s Detective Troy] DuGal – I think it was with DuGal, maybe his female partner that he had…
Bachman: Fiske?
Merritt: Fiske? Is that her name?
Bachman: Yeah.
Merritt: I mentioned to her, I said, you know, I’m kind of going on Cathy’s memory because, and I don’t remember, even back then. I don’t don’t remember the majority of that evening.
I remember part of the day. I remember meeting with Joseph. I remember eating. I remember, you know…​

I find it odd that the denial is in the form of "not having a recollection of a reason to go there"

"to the best of my knowledge I was at home"

Both these statements allow for alternate possibilities and in fact due to phone records we know Chase was not at home.

 

[mrjitty]

@Tortoise

Interesting he lies about being given the cheques at lunch again - this is very damning IMO

And then your favorite dog thing. How were those animals doing after a supposed 9 days without food or water?

Merritt: Went out there. They weren’t there. But the dogs were in the backyard. So I fed the dogs. There was no water out for the dogs. So I put a pot underneath the faucet.
Bachman: Okay.
Merritt: And turned the faucet on just a little bit to have it continually drip. I filled it and then just let it drip in. And then I came back and called his mom and said, you know, the dogs were out with no food and no water. You know, that’s not Summer, because the big dog was Summer’s baby.
Bachman: Okay. So describe when you show up at Joe’s house, describe for me what you see.
Merritt: Front door was locked. Dog, when I pulled up, the dogs were barking…
Bachman: Uh-huh.
Merritt: …or the dog. The puppy wasn’t barking. The dog was barking. And the door was locked. So I went around to the backyard to look in the window. And the dogs were back there. Looked in the window. Couldn’t see Joseph, or anything. So I just, I fed the dogs. I ripped open the dog food bag, and because it was raining…
Bachman: Okay.
Merritt …or I think it was raining right then. But if it wasn’t raining then, it had been or was going to. But I knew that, I mean, it was going to be wet…
Bachman: Okay.
Merritt: …or whatever. And so I put the dog food inside the shed because he had it outside in a barrel. And I put the dog food inside in the shed and ripped open the bag, kind of made it so that they could eat. And then I put the pot under the faucet and turned it on and let it, let it drip. And I left. So that’s pretty much all I saw. I mean, it was wasn’t very much to see other than…​

 

[mrjitty]

I am going to go with, stupid, inept and lazy.
Yes. That's harsh.
However. There were many, many loving family members and friends who suffered immensely due the lack of concern, right in their face clues and assumptions made by these trained law enforcement officers.
Personally, I think that Joey and Summer's family were TOO nice and trusting of the law enforcement in this case.
Nobody went berserk. They believed in the "process".
I've learned a lot from this crime, the investigation and this trial.
If one (or four) of my family members go missing... I will absolutely go berserk.

*absolutely no shadowing thrown at these families here by me.
I'm pretty sure that if we were to hear from them now, they would have some choice opinions and words to say. My opinion. Thanks.

It's interesting to analyse with hindsight because I am still not sure how the case could have been managed differently.

I think due to the macabre fact pattern of the case, the bodies were never going to be found for years once we get outside the key window of the first 2-3 days

So what clues that were left, were left in the house, in Quickbooks and in the Trooper.

The Trooper the state had access to but not the house.

So somehow, the family needed to find a clue, to open up a forensic examination of the house.

I do think that was likely DuGal's idea - that the family who could legally access the house and computers, might be able to find a lead.

But what would that lead have been in hindsight?

The Quickbooks stuff?

 

[mrjitty]

They're not even factual.

or this

Merritt’s reference to “there” is Rancho Cucamonga, where Joseph had driven earlier in the day to meet him and provide him with checks needed for the completion of a project Earth Inspired Products was working on.