CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[JMarsh]

The video is what it is.

True, and where that guy sat at prelim is what it is as well. I spoke to him briefly. Not about Chase's guilt, but he was definitely with Chase's friends and family for that hearing.

 

[missy1974]

The bath mat was found outside of Summer's grave, according to an evidence list on a website. It is a bath mat, NOT a towel.

I have found something in the preliminary hearing that suggests there was a bath mat found. But I am not finding anything in testimony. It may be the case that they have since determined it was not a bath mat. JMO

(I will add it to my list of things that were misrepresented in the PH until I see more testimony I guess lol)

 

[missy1974]

I was at prelim. That guy sat with Chase's family on the defense's side of the court. My guess is that by prelim, he'd changed his mind.

You were there!!!!

Ok.. that's interesting haha

 

[JMarsh]

You were there!!!!

Ok.. that's interesting haha

Yes. I wish I could be there for trial. Being there in person is great. There is a dynamic that is very interesting. I might try and make it out for a few days of trial. I just have to pick my days carefully. I don't want to be there and then they are in recess for two days.

 

[Force Ten]

The blockbuster purchases weren't made on the 4th and for an alibi. I only showed them to show that somehow, someway he was watching movies, as some have stated that it was an outright lie because no way he could because he didn't own a TV.

Right, those movies he rented could have been watched anywhere, friends, families, etc. But let's put this into context. Let's go with the notion he was watching a movie on the 12th. There is no way CJ could have misremembered the day that Joseph called. He didn't call CM on the 12th while watching a movie because all phone activity stopped on the 4th.

If you go back and look at the phone log, there's no time in recent nights before the 4th that Joseph called CM where he didn't pick up. The whole thing is a facade imo.

 

[Edmo]

I have found something in the preliminary hearing that suggests there was a bath mat found. But I am not finding anything in testimony. It may be the case that they have since determined it was not a bath mat. JMO

(I will add it to my list of things that were misrepresented in the PH until I see more testimony I guess lol)

The picture I saw was 2 pieces of a bath mat(s). That I do know, lol.

 

[missy1974]

Yes. I wish I could be there for trial. Being there in person is great. There is a dynamic that is very interesting. I might try and make it out for a few days of trial. I just have to pick my days carefully. I don't want to be there and then they are in recess for two days.

Well, good luck finding a day that you don't think there will be a delay LOL

 

[missy1974]

The picture I saw was 2 pieces of a bath mat(s). That I do know, lol.

did you see the photo I attached to a post? It looked like bath mat to me, or closest thing to it, but she said it was towel. I searched the youtube transcript in her testimony, and no mat, no bath came up. I guess it could be in someone elses testimony, but she processed the graves IIRC.

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

 

[LadyL]

This what I wonder about. The plan was not merely to obscure the forensics. Death itself was hidden.

This form of staging tends to happen when it is necessary to conceal the relationship between murderer and victim, as we as the relationship to place of death.

Indeed you see it a lot in domestic crimes against women and kids.

Construction of elaborate narratives tends to reveal the hand of the murder, because reality itself does not contain exposition. An efficient staging for example, a recent UK serial killer who was murdering prostitutes. He dumped the bodies in the river to obscure forensics. However there was no need to hide death.

My thinking is not fully formed on this yet, because I want to learn more about the house and hope we get more forensics. But if the real need was to obscure forensics, why not focus on hiding the bodies?

And if the real crime scene is hidden why the need for "mexico"?

very interesting read
thank you

 

[Edmo]

did you see the photo I attached to a post? It looked like bath mat to me, or closest thing to it, but she said it was towel. I searched the youtube transcript in her testimony, and no mat, no bath came up. I guess it could be in someone elses testimony, but she processed the graves IIRC.

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

Could be, but the pic I saw was one of the Inv's holding it for the picture. Whomever posted that pic called it a bath mat and the picture was taken from a distance, so those could be the same thing.

 

[Force Ten]

do you know where in testimony that is? what I just watched, she called them all towels... will see if that photo was from her testimony... lol

ETA: it's at 50:15 of the video I posted, she does also call this a "torn towel"

Two more.

 

[missy1974]

Two more.

Interesting. The 2nd photo, with the 2 pieces .... the CSI investigator clearly calls it a towel.

 

[mothwings]

One of the most recent trial days, McGee said to the witness that the video of a short interview with Dan Kavanaugh was played for the jury. Was this on the livestream? I didn't see it in any of the archive videos. Have they played the "last person to see him alive" interview too?

 

[missy1974]

Right, those movies he rented could have been watched anywhere, friends, families, etc. But let's put this into context. Let's go with the notion he was watching a movie on the 12th. There is no way CJ could have misremembered the day that Joseph called. He didn't call CM on the 12th while watching a movie because all phone activity stopped on the 4th.

If you go back and look at the phone log, there's no time in recent nights before the 4th that Joseph called CM where he didn't pick up. The whole thing is a facade imo.

You are right, they could have been watched anywhere.

Putting it into context, the call from Joey's phone actually didn't connect on the 4th either. So there was no call that night either for her to remember or not remember. So why did she even say she remembered a call that never happened? There are some other calls earlier that week during that time, no way to know if they connected/didn't connect/went to VM until we have the full cell phone records. So saying it couldn't have happened another night... isn't true until we have more info. IMO

 

[MsFacetious]

Yep

I don't see how you can mistakenly think you watched a movie on a TV you don't have.

He was definitely lying and being deceptive with the whole "phone a girlfriend" ruse

Maybe he DID watch a "movie"....... at the Mcstay house!

This is an area where I feel there is need for law reform

I prefer the English reforms where the accused must disclose some types of facts he intends to rely on pre-trial to police.

e.g. if you have an Alibi that you were elsewhere, it is absurd you can wait till the end of the trial to disclose it on the stand.

Except, sometimes there are concerns about stories changing to fit the defendants alibi. In cases involving a crime with a range of when it could be committed for example.

If someone says that the crime happened on Friday, but your client was out of town on Friday. If you were to explain that the story could change to Tuesday and then you've just gotten screwed.

If someone is going to change their story I prefer it happens on the stand in front of the jury. Less time to get the story straight and polish things up.

I take the same view on informing a witness that another witness has turned against them. On the stand is best because they react angrily and tell the truth, rather than having time to kiss and make up.

This is true in California as well. Both sides have to reveal discovery. They can keep work product and strategy from each other, but any evidence that either side has must be disclosed.

Yes any evidence you intend to use in your defense case in chief has to be disclosed. However, it doesn't have to be interpreted or explained to the other side.

The state has to turn over any evidence whether they intend to use it or not. The defense can choose not to submit anything if they don't intend to use it. Defense can also withhold evidence that would only be used to impeach a witness but would otherwise be irrelevant.

So I can submit 1100 pages of phone records but not explain to the other side that this provides an alibi. They may figure it out on their own sure, I'm just not required to explain it.

Yes. I wish I could be there for trial. Being there in person is great. There is a dynamic that is very interesting. I might try and make it out for a few days of trial. I just have to pick my days carefully. I don't want to be there and then they are in recess for two days.

Yeah.... I wouldn't waste the trip. I mean you can aim for Tuesday-Thursday to increase your odds I guess.

 

[missy1974]

To put all of this into perspective, with Chase's and even Cathy's memory. Today is February 17th, exactly 9 years ago, CM was interviewed. Can you all remember what you did on the 4th? the 5th? the 6th? the 7th? the 8th? I can't LOL And I have a kicka$$ memory.

I had to look at a calendar, even looked at text messages to see if I could recall what I was doing those evenings (which is kinda funny considering one of those days my son had a bday LOL). Not saying that Chase made stuff up, but I don't know if faulting Cathy for her memory is warranted. JMO

 

[Edmo]

OH... was it this? (attachment) it's at 1:02 of the video. I thought it was maybe the bath mat, but she says '2 pieces of torn white towel'

I think those are what I saw. They were labeled as bloody bath mat, and it was a distance type shot. Whomever uploaded my pic, obviously must have mislabeled the pic.

 

[MsRyber]

That always seemed suspicious to me too, but McGyver had been trying to reach the McStays to see if they wanted him to come in on Sat or Sun to paint, and he never heard back, and he didn't alert anyone. The brother and mother are told by at least two people that the family is not in contact, and they wait to phone police.

Chase actually has, in a way, the best excuse of anyone for not calling police-he could have been arrested on the spot. There was a bench warrant out for his arrest. What Chase appears to be doing is trying to get someone else to phone the police. And a family member really is the most logical party to do this.

McGyver wasn't the best friend. McGyver wasn't a business partner. McGyver is a bit more "arms-length" than CM, IMO.
To not call, text, go over, ask a neighbour if they'd seen them, call again, leave messages, emails, etc is absurd for someone who was entirely engaged with this family. After they were dead, he didn't call, except for that pretender 2-in-a-minute deal. Especially in light of giving MSM the cheques that he was supposedly told by JM to do. And more to the point, no messages to JM for customers wanting to get paid, no VM's explaining he'd paid himself the money he was supposedly owed, paid for the Saudi Arabia final, etc etc etc. Nada, zero.

 

[missy1974]

I think those are what I saw. They were labeled as bloody bath mat, and it was a distance type shot. Whomever uploaded my pic, obviously must have mislabeled the pic.

The pro's had implied that the bathmat was missing, and even mentioned it specifically in the PH, so I can see where the confusion would be. I couldn't find any testimony, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I just can't find it. I will keep my eyes and ears open for it and will screenshot and take note of where it is if I come across it I assume we will see more testimony from lab personnel? Maybe? lol

 

[missy1974]

McGyver wasn't the best friend. McGyver wasn't a business partner. McGyver is a bit more "arms-length" than CM, IMO.
To not call, text, go over, ask a neighbour if they'd seen them, call again, leave messages, emails, etc is absurd for someone who was entirely engaged with this family. After they were dead, he didn't call, except for that pretender 2-in-a-minute deal. Especially in light of giving MSM the cheques that he was supposedly told by JM to do. And more to the point, no messages to JM for customers wanting to get paid, no VM's explaining he'd paid himself the money he was supposedly owed, paid for the Saudi Arabia final, etc etc etc. Nada, zero.

Voicemails on Joey's phone were deleted. When SD got them, the first messages were messages from when the media had already reported the family missing, Dugal could tell by what was in the message.