CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[mrjitty]

Do you not see the weakness in this argument?

As you're trying to see this as a juror, do you think it likely that Joey drove the Trooper to the border? And on the basis that the freshest DNA on a surface will be that which is available for collection, that he drove it to the border within minutes of having touched something of Chase's before he had a chance to wash his hands or do anything else?

Where is the DNA of the person who did drive it if it wasn't Chase and it wasn't Joey? Did they manage to drive the Trooper for hundreds of miles without leaving anything behind at all?

All Chase had to do was yawn (if he took it there on the 8th and had been at the house at 2 am I wouldn't be surprised he'd be yawning) and a fine spray of saliva would be enough to contaminate the steering wheel and then a gloved hand after he got in the vehicle.

I'm struggling to see why anyone who is looking at the evidence in a non-biased manner would reject the most plausible explanation for how Chase's DNA got there, and favour an explanation that requires an unproven contact with Chase and ignores the lack of a.n.other murderer's DNA, since Joey most likely did not drive it to the border.

JMO

There is absolutely no reason to prefer transfer over deposit by Chase

 

[Cricket28]

I am trying to understand this. If Joey drove that car every day for a year, and Chase just drove it that one time, wouldn't we expect that Joey would be the major contributor, and Chase a minor?

And if CM's DNA was transfer DNA from shaking hands with JM. Wouldn't you expect JM to shake hands with McGyver and therefore expect McGyver's DNA somewhere in the Trooper?

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Jones assumed that Joey' s and summer's was there.

This is the Knox fallacy again.

"Knox's DNA was not found!!" But actually, because Knox lived in the house, they did not look for it. It was obviously all over the place. They only looked for DNA in critical places. e.g Meredith's cut bra strap. Blood stains in the bathroom. And they found a mixed sample

It is 100% pointless to look for Joey's DNA specifically. He was the owner of the vehicle.

 

[Force Ten]

There are pictures of Joey and Chase suited up to play paintball.

Of Joseph, not Chase.

 

[mrjitty]

And if CM's DNA was transfer DNA from shaking hands with JM.

Wouldn't you expect JM to shake hands with McGyver and therefore expect McGyver's DNA somewhere in the Trooper?

MOO

This is where we need to understand transfer properly.

Transfer does not mean that if Joey shakes hands with Chase, Chases DNA will be found in the trooper. No probability is assigned to that.

Transfer is merely a possible explanation for why it is found there.

There is in fact no evidence so far that transfer happened. There is no reason to believe it more likely that Joey deposited it there compared to Chase himself.

I think people get hoodwinked by these DNA defences into believing it must have happened.

Transfer DNA only provides a methodology for deposit, as an alternative to direct deposit.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Chase may, in part, have become a target of this investigation because he has no filter. He just says what he thinks. My impression from interviews is that Summer was actually on a lot of people's mind as responsible for the family's disappearance. This case has been riddled with innuendo from day one. And will probably continue to be forever.

IMO, I don't see how he was seen as a POI, charged/arrested, is now on trial for multiple murders solely because he has no filter.

 

[Plo_Koon]

*SIGH* Following this trial on a forum is like the old joke "Pete and repeat went down to the river to bathe, Pete fell in and who was saved? Repeat" etc,etc like as if something is repeated often and by many, it finally begins to be believed by others.

Because the point is still pretty valid, IMO. Wow, he called pretty sparingly. When JM is alive, CM is calling him upwards of 10-15 times a day because of them working in a business together. Someone posted the number of daily calls going back a few months prior to the murder and the majority of those days had calls into the double digits. Why did that change?????

 

[Mickey Mouse]

But who is to say they shook hands at the CFA meeting? I’m not certain but it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that what they had to discuss that day may not have been initiated with a handshake. I wouldn’t shake the hand of someone I knew was/ or suspected of stealing from me.

Who shakes hands with someone they work with on a daily basis? You shake hands when you first meet someone, or if you haven't seen them in a while. Shaking hands every time you see a co-worker is just weird.

 

[Cricket28]

For those who have followed this case for years, do you remember reports that Joey was in the habit of emailing his passwords to himself? If so, do you know who the source of this information was?

I've searched the McStay forum in the 'basement' and found a number of posts that reference this "fact", but not the source.

Yes! I believe Patrick is the source of that info. IIRC it might even be in his book.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Because the point is still pretty valid, IMO. Wow, he called pretty sparingly. When JM is alive, CM is calling him upwards of 10-15 times a day because of them working in a business together. Someone posted the number of daily calls going back a few months prior to the murder and the majority of those days had calls into the double digits. Why did that change?????

I agree - its pretty odd.

Also no SMS?

What i would personally do is make a couple of calls per day, waiting for call back. But once things got urgently I would make far more calls, in the hope that the phone would be turned back on, and catch them rather than Voice Mail. Also i send a text with specifics of why its urgent.

I have actually done this when my own business partner dropped off grid for a few days

So if CM (and everyone) is thinking Joey has gone on 1-2 weeks holiday - wouldn't he send at least a text of what he needed?

 

[mrjitty]

Of Joseph, not Chase.

We need to be careful of how much "fact" in this case is unsubstantiated claims from the accused

 

[Plo_Koon]

Chase was in the Trooper at least 6 weeks prior to the family going missing. Again, Summer may have been in that passenger seat many times since the last time Chase road shot gun.

What is the evidence that CM was a passenger in the car at least six weeks prior to the family going missing? Because Chase claimed so? He doesn't have much credibility IMO. He took a picture in a house wearing paintball gear? You and I can get dressed up for Halloween and take a picture in your dining room, but that doesn't necessarily prove that you rode with me 10 miles away to the rich folks' neighborhood and we went trick or treating for king sized candy bars.

 

[Force Ten]

Right. The steering wheel was 1 swab.

All the other area's were a collective swab... 2 swabs, but those were used to swab all areas.

We have already heard testimony weeks ago about it being collected I will include photo's of the swab packaging, might help make sense of it

IMO a collective swab was probably used in other areas such as the controls because whomever drove the vehicle likely left DNA there. A passenger wouldn't be touching the 4wd lever, gear shift, etc.

 

[Plo_Koon]

*sigh* I don't know how to make it any clearer ...

This was a collective swab. IIRC 2 swabs were taken ... they swabbed the gear shift... used the same swab and swabbed the a/c controls... used the same swab and swabbed the 4wheel drive lever... used the same swab and swabbed the radio controls ... used the same swab and swabbed the heater. There is no way to know where that DNA was actually picked up from.

He was included as a possible trace contributor on that collective swab odds someone else could be included ... 1 in 4500 African Americans 1 in 3300 Caucasions 1 in 12000 Hispanics

I'm actually curious if they tested both of the swabs.

But they used a separate swab for the steering wheel, correct? And CM's DNA was on that swab, correct? I'm not asking whether it was trace, or a minor amount, but it was there on the steering wheel, yes or no?

 

[missy1974]

Who shakes hands with someone they work with on a daily basis? You shake hands when you first meet someone, or if you haven't seen them in a while. Shaking hands every time you see a co-worker is just weird.

I don't think they saw each other daily?

 

[Cricket28]

I'm just getting a black screen for the live stream.

 

[missy1974]

IMO a collective swab was probably used in other areas such as the controls because whomever drove the vehicle likely left DNA there. A passenger wouldn't be touching the 4wd lever, gear shift, etc.

The point is, there is nothing to say that it came from the gear shift or the 4 wheel drive lever. That trace DNA could have come from the a/c control, right? Or the other areas swabbed.

 

[missy1974]

But they used a separate swab for the steering wheel, correct? And CM's DNA was on that swab, correct? I'm not asking whether it was trace, or a minor amount, but it was there on the steering wheel, yes or no?

Correct!

 

[Plo_Koon]

Correct!

And we are just explaining that away, correct?

 

[missy1974]

I'm just getting a black screen for the live stream.

I have it on my phone.... try going to the lawandcrime home page, there is a link to Mcstay trial day 21