CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[JMarsh]

IIRC, she was afraid of an Ex?

Afraid of something.

 

[A lucas]

Mony Mony re your earlier comment about Chase potentially finding out about JM’s big bank balance and wanting a piece of the action. I think you may have something there. He was obvs rummaging around to have found the QB log in details so maybe he did see the big bank balance at some point too.

I know Joey didn’t tell Sequida how much he was selling the custom fountains for so maybe Chase didn’t know the profit margin either, so big bank balance may have been a shock and a trigger.

Over the three years they knew each other CM must have felt very jealous (especially as he considered himself business partner?!) as he watched Joey on the up and up whereas he was Struggling with debt and reduced to plumbing and electrics and the lower income associated with that.

To top it all off JM then moved his family into that fantastic house on Avocado Lane. The Murders happened soon after. Maybe the house purchase was another nail in the coffin for CM and woke the green eyed monster within him? JMO

 

[HelenK]

Are we allowed to know the member name of the poster who was suspected to be Chase, and are his posts still there? I assume you are talking about posts on the private McStay forum. Sorry I cannot attach this to HelenK's post now.

Actually, it was fridaybaker who originally referred to the Chasing Waterfalls posts of long ago, asking if anyone else remembered them. Then, A lucas chimed in yes. Then, I did also. Yes, they were in the private forums (my recollection is that there weren't many of them), but don't know if they are still accessible. As to the identity of the Chasing Waterfalls poster, I doubt if we would be allowed that information, but I'm sure the mods could answer the question, as well as any other regarding the posts.

 

[QueenBofOB]

There is no way to know. Pure speculation that they didn't. Sounds to me that he spent an awful lot of his time in their house after they moved in? Knew quite a lot about their lifestyle. Why wasn't he home with his own family?

Yes, very "interesting," that he was hanging around their home, EATING dinner, etc. Especially when he claims in his book, that Summer was POISONING her husband. WHY would anyone with half a brain, want to eat anything at a friend's house, if they believed that the guy's wife was poisoning him?!?
And speaking of "poison," is it not also "interesting," that he admitted to going to Tijuana for Viagra. I wonder if he picked up any date rape type drugs, also? And slipped them into JM's drinks whenever he could. Not hard to do, if JM "always paid." Helpful, good friend that he was, CM could've gone over to fill up the drink cups, slipping the drugs in, without being noticed.

 

[missy1974]

In the OS, the Prosecutor claimed CM owed JM around $43K, IIRC

And in the OS, the defense said that if the prosecutor's had looked at the attachment on an email, it would have been $899. Neither are evidence.

 

[Edmo]

@citygirl

RE: Obtaining his records: CM was smart enough to obtain them, if he actually got ALL of them.

To me, this simply shows he would also be smart enough to stage the crime scene, dump the Trooper, and think he could get away with the murders, IMO. We still have to wait/hear the State's Case In Chief in testimony, but his past behavior points to how he thinks, IMO.

 

[citygirl]

OMG, he is LOVING it! I know from experience from working in LE for 18 years. ANY time an inmate get's out of his cell, especially those who are housed alone, they thrive for any human contact with other people.

Inmates will make any excuse to go to the Dentist, see the Dr, or whomever that can get them out from the chaos that happens in the dayroom or out of their cell when being housed alone.

And it's all about him! He gets to spiff up and look like a member of the defense team. Crisp shirt and tie, reading glasses, taking lengthy notes on a legal pad. That long lunch time must be hard.

Mony re your earlier comment about Chase potentially finding out JM’s big bank balance and wanting a piece of the action. I think you may have something there. He was obvs rummaging around to have found the QB log in details so maybe he did see the big bank balance at some point.

I know Joey didn’t tell Sequida how much he was selling the custom fountains for so maybe Chase didn’t know the profit margin either, so big bank balance may have been a shock and a trigger.

Over the three years they knew each other CM must have felt very jealous (especially as he considered himself business partner?!) as Joey was on the up and up whereas CM was Struggling with debt and reduced to plumbing and electrics and the lower income associated with that.

To top it all off JM then moved his family into that fantastic house on Avocado Lane. The Murders happened soon after. Maybe the house purchase was another nail in the coffin for CM and woke the green eyed monster within him? JMO

Yes. They upscale from that small apt, a bit of a mess,IMO, then buy an adorable house. Joey was in his 40's right? CM was 10 years older? Joey was moving forward. Wanting the best for his family.Sacrificing the beach for better digs. And CM doesn't appear to have any equity.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mony re your earlier comment about Chase potentially finding out JM’s big bank balance and wanting a piece of the action. I think you may have something there. He was obvs rummaging around to have found the QB log in details so maybe he did see the big bank balance at some point.

I know Joey didn’t tell Sequida how much he was selling the custom fountains for so maybe Chase didn’t know the profit margin either, so big bank balance may have been a shock and a trigger.

Over the three years they knew each other CM must have felt very jealous (especially as he considered himself business partner?!) as Joey was on the up and up whereas CM was Struggling with debt and reduced to plumbing and electrics and the lower income associated with that.

To top it all off CM then moved his family into that fantastic house on Avocado Lane. The Murders happened soon after. Maybe that was another nail in the coffin for CM and woke the green eyed monster in him? JMO

I believe you both very well could be correct.

I've always felt, based on CMs past history, he was the type of individual that spends money before it's even made. I wonder how many times he had to rush to the bank to put funds in to cover all the checks he had already written?

He had big plans on the money he thought he was going to be making when Joey's business took off like a rocket, with the sky as the limit.

Imo, he had already been reduced to doing jobs anyone could do for far less than he was costing Joey.

Imo, on the 4th Joey told him he was OUT! Joey had already made this decision that day when he had the fatal meeting with CM.

Joey didn't have tell anyone else . Joey knew whatever decision he thought was in the best interest of the company, Patrick would support Joey's decision 100 percent.

Imo

 

[Edmo]

And in the OS, the defense said that if the prosecutor's had looked at the attachment on an email, it would have been $899. Neither are evidence.

It remains to be proven. TY Missy for the truth.

 

[Edmo]

And it's all about him! He gets to spiff up and look like a member of the defense team. Crisp shirt and tie, reading glasses, taking lengthy notes on a legal pad. That long lunch time must be hard.

Yes. They upscale from that small apt, a bit of a mess,IMO, then buy an adorable house. Joey was in his 40's right? CM was 10 years older? Joey was moving forward. Wanting the best for his family.Sacrificing the beach for better digs. And CM doesn't appear to have any equity.

He also tries to appear frail and old, IMO.

 

[citygirl]

I believe you both very well could be correct.

I've always felt, based on CMs past history, he was the type of individual that spends money before it's even made. I wonder how many times he had to rush to the bank to put funds in to cover all the checks he had already written?

He had big plans on the money he thought he was going to be making when Joey's business took off like a rocket, with the sky as the limit.

Imo, he had already been reduced to doing jobs anyone could do for far less than he was costing Joey.

Imo, on the 4th Joey told him he was OUT! Joey had already made this decision that day when he had the fatal meeting with CM.

Joey didn't have tell anyone else . Joey knew whatever decision he thought was in the best interest of the company, Patrick would support Joey's decision 100 percent.

Imo

And it was downward spiral from there. His buddy, his bff who seemed to be forgiving for a lot of years, called his bluff.

 

[missy1974]

Hi Missy!

Wasn't the quoted amount more to do with his gambling debts he owed Joey?

Yes, we will see, since the state's opening has no bearing on all other evidence that may be introduced during the entire state's case. They may be saving that back for strategic reasons. Like for rebuttal in case CM testifies.

Imo

No, I don't believe so. This "gambling debt" is nothing more than fiction as far as I can tell.

From Pro's OS's:

This is the email he provides San Diego and it’ll become important here in a little bit as well - February 1st at 11.42 am. What he doesn’t mention as he’s trying to explain this to these I’m sure very tired detectives who’ve been working two days trying to find this family, is he never mentions that the total that he owes Joseph is $42,845. Not Joseph owing him $11,000.

Chase paid $173,255, owed $158,000 has been overpaid $15,045, plus $27,800. He doesn’t mention that when he’s explaining and what he ends up saying is Joseph’s gonna owe me $11,000 after these two projects. Because 26K minus 15K is about 11K.​

But again, it's OS's... not evidence.

 

[citygirl]

He also tries to appear frail and old, IMO.

I know people have opined on that. But I am not seeing it. He looks pretty health to me. And we only have the benefit of the stupid cameras with L and C.

 

[missy1974]

They didn't 'hire' a forensic accountant as such but they used one of their own in-house specialists, and contrary to what the defense argued to the judge about the people doing this in response to what the defense said they did in their opening speech, the state's forensic accountant had been brought in to the case since early part of last year if I'm not mistaken.

The state said there was no "report" but that they would submit the excel spreadsheets to the judge for him to look at. This was about a week ago.

So he was hired a year ago and they are JUST submitting the paperwork? And not even a report saying what he will testify to? That doesn't seem right...

I did catch that they were looking for discovery, but didn't hear whether he was just hired or what. This helps clear it up... I guess LOL

JMO

 

[QueenBofOB]

I'm wondering if JM & SM kept any large sums of cash, hidden in the house? That may have been another reason for CM to keep going back, not only doing clean up, but also ransacking the place, looking for more money, to get his murderous, thieving, greedy hands on.

 

[Edmo]

I know people have opined on that. But I am not seeing it. He looks pretty health to me. And we only have the benefit of the stupid cameras with L and C.

Eyeglasses, greying hair, hunched over in his chair. MOST of the time Atty's want their client looking THEIR absolute best, clothing, hair dyed, no glasses etc. , has been my experience.

 

[missy1974]

Completely agree

You know what amazes me? If true that he staged the crime scene, the moxie he had to pull that off. How could he be confident that no one would notice? How did he come and go? Where did he park? No doubt he came under cover of darkness, but still how did he go unnoticed? We've heard about the 2 am log on to the computer on Feb 8th. Seems that was refuted in testimony based on poster's observation. I tried to follow but it kept timing out and the youtube channel was more commercials and expert chatter than testimony! I have resisted going back and listening to the testimony in the evening. Would much rather read a good book. LOL. Thankful for the posters that do that. I think he is guilty but waiting to hear all the evidence. At the rate this is going I could be dead in 6 months. Really feel for these jurors.

BBM above... I don't think the 8th has been cleared up, but the 5th was. The prosecution showed that an Intuit QB's Free Credit Check and Score bookmark was accessed... on cross, it was shown that it was actually a scan and it was 1 of 27,000 files accessed within minutes, thus more likely that it was a system scan.

Just wanted to make that clear. I am sure we will hear more about the 8th somewhere along the way though ;-)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So he was hired a year ago and they are JUST submitting the paperwork? And not even a report saying what he will testify to? That doesn't seem right...

I did catch that they were looking for discovery, but didn't hear whether he was just hired or what. This helps clear it up... I guess LOL

JMO

OT

I hope you came away as a big winner during your casino trip.

 

[citygirl]

BBM above... I don't think the 8th has been cleared up, but the 5th was. The prosecution showed that an Intuit QB's Free Credit Check and Score bookmark was accessed... on cross, it was shown that it was actually a scan and it was 1 of 27,000 files accessed within minutes, thus more likely that it was a system scan.

Just wanted to make that clear. I am sure we will hear more about the 8th somewhere along the way though ;-)

Thanks. Did I screw up the dates? Not surprising. LOL. I don't keep notes. It's all swirling around in my crazy brain

Yes, very "interesting," that he was hanging around their home, EATING dinner, etc. Especially when he claims in his book, that Summer was POISONING her husband. WHY would anyone with half a brain, want to eat anything at a friend's house, if they believed that the guy's wife was poisoning him?!?
And speaking of "poison," is it not also "interesting," that he admitted to going to Tijuana for Viagra. I wonder if he picked up any date rape type drugs, also? And slipped them into JM's drinks whenever he could. Not hard to do, if JM "always paid." Helpful, good friend that he was, CM could've gone over to fill up the drink cups, slipping the drugs in, without being noticed.

And why would he even discuss what meds he was taking in a police interview?Was that to stress that he is an old man? Whatever possessed him to think LE would have any interest in that? Did he mention he may be on statins? HB meds? Coagulants post stent? He's a conman, IMO.

 

[missy1974]

Wow, love this question. Impartial due process as it relates to the presumption of innocence? Bottom line, imo...I don't think it's humanly possible because of the nature of the human brain.

As a juror, you begin at innocent. As testimony accumulates, it becomes part of the process. That process, which comes naturally to humans, is to categorize information based on recognizable patterns. That is how we label and file things in our brain to make sense of information.

As information is obtained, we assign a value of importance based on how it is fits or doesn't fit into a perceived pattern - in this case, pattern of guilt or pattern of innocence. A juror is aware of the overall balance as the information accumulates, and while they certainly can say they are not leaning one way or another, they are definitely aware of the tipping of the scale. The opinion being formed is fluid. It has to be in order to know where to focus when going into deliberations. Otherwise, every single thing that was presented during trial would have to be discussed all over again to be assigned a value. Obviously, much of the testimony is re-discussed in deliberations, and that is where individual categorizations can be changed to have more or less weight. I don't believe you can listen to six months of testimony and truly have no opinion as to which way the scale is tipping. Due process doesn't really exist as technically defined. It exists a fluid process, not a fixed one.

At websleuths, we are not held to the standards of jurors, which allows us to formulate theories that may be completely wacky. Frankly, I think trying to set up a separate thread to "act" like we're jurors is absurd. We've been exposed to way to0 much information to try to revert to a clean slate.

This is a great explanation! Thanks!

Although I agree that it's absurd to "act like jurors", I don't think it's absurd to listen to the evidence and discuss that evidence, and then maybe adjust our opinions accordingly. IMO it's absurd to me that some can't or won't even acknowledge that some of the "evidence" has changed. And the actual trial evidence is getting lost in theories IMO