CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[missy1974]

San Diego likely got Joey's credit card records, so that info. must not be there. Did CM say that Joey paid with a card? I have to go back and listen. I forgot that part.

Even if Chase is guilty, that meeting seems like a weird thing to lie about. And the phone records appear to support this occurring. I know there is a theory out there that Joey was abducted or killed during this time, but phone records seem to debunk this.

In his interview, he said he paid with a credit card or ATM card ...

 

[mrjitty]

You keep stating that Chase lied, and yet you have produced no evidentiary support for this.

As i said, why don't we just drop it here?

It's boring for everyone else to fill the thread with us disagreeing.

 

[mrjitty]

LE says they verified it. So either you believe LE or not lol I to would like to see proof, which we don't have yet.

I'd be interested to see the corroboration as this point is so long speculated!

 

[missy1974]

I suspect they did met, and Chase lied about everything - as usual. This is his go-to strategy

Joey didn't let it drop - and that let to the 5.30pm call and going dark

I would like to know if Dugal got copies of the stuff that Chase had at their interview. I'm sure Chase said he made copies, but unsure of whether it was just the emails. When he was talking about what they were going through that day, it sure sounded like he was showing them papers. Saying "this is what we were doing"... I would like to see if Joey's handwriting is on it ;-)

 

[mrjitty]

From everything I have read, and heard, Chase has never said it was his memory, he said he couldn't remember and it was Jarvis's memory.

But if he can't remember, and Jarvis memory was incorrect, then by definition he has no Alibi.

This is the nexus I want to zero in on.

You can make any excuses you want as to why but at the end of the day he has no alibi.

Do you at least accept that much?

 

[missy1974]

I'd be interested to see the corroboration as this point is so long speculated!

Hanke apparently investigated the CFA thing... I was surprised they didn't ask him about it the other day... but I haven't made it to cross yet! LOL I have today to get to the end of it ;-)

I have been taking notes during his testimony... I have some questions!!!! But waiting until I hear cross, maybe they will be answered

 

[missy1974]

But if he can't remember, and Jarvis memory was incorrect, then by definition he has no Alibi.

This is the nexus I want to zero in on.

You can make any excuses you want as to why but at the end of the day he has no alibi.

Do you at least accept that much?

No alibi and definitely being in Fallbrook are 2 different things to me.

At this point, I don't even know if Jarvis was home that evening. I can see calls that she made to him, but no testimony about where she was. Was she at home when calling him? If she was... then I can at least assume he wasn't if she was calling him, but I don't know that yet, do you?

 

[mrjitty]

No alibi and definitely being in Fallbrook are 2 different things to me.

OK but now you are moving the goalposts

do you accept, based on his statement, he has no alibi?

That is the single narrow, but critical point I am making.

At this point, I don't even know if Jarvis was home that evening. I can see calls that she made to him, but no testimony about where she was. Was she at home when calling him? If she was... then I can at least assume he wasn't if she was calling him, but I don't know that yet, do you?

No i don't know. But for me the key point is she did not know where Chase was, and he has never told us.

Evidential burden of alibi evidence is on the accused, not on the state.

 

[mrjitty]

Hanke apparently investigated the CFA thing... I was surprised they didn't ask him about it the other day... but I haven't made it to cross yet! LOL I have today to get to the end of it ;-)

I have been taking notes during his testimony... I have some questions!!!! But waiting until I hear cross, maybe they will be answered

I've never seen any evidence that the CFA meeting was corroborated. Maybe someone will produce the exhibit of Joey's credit card statements?

They will be in evidence before the Jury for sure.

 

[Mica]

Remember this was back in 2010

Also, Joey wasn't exactly doing consumer stuff.

Yes, from 2007 - 2010 I was referring to.

 

[Force Ten]

It didn't escape me that the prosecutor said in his opening 'if there was a meeting'.

In one of my scenarios I have Joey calling Chase to say he's arrived and needs to go to the bank (as he told Patrick) and suggests meeting at Chase' home. Chase has to be expecting it's going to get difficult and is probably the end of the road now. So Chase does not want to see him, he knows Joey probably now knows he stole at least one blank cheque and has probably seen the activity including the deletion on QB custom account. He doesn't know even if Joey is going to see the cheque he cashed when he goes into Union Bank to make his deposit, he imagines the worst.

Chase calls Cathy frantically and says if Joey shows up tell him you don't know where I am. He then speaks to Joey and says 'I've got a few difficulties whatever I'm stuck out at wherever at the moment, I'll meet you at ChickfilA if I get done here doing whatever. Cathy's home with the kids and she doesn't want us there' (like he got the detectives to meet him away from Cathy).

So Joey does his business at the bank and sits waiting for Chase to show up doing internet business while he's waiting. He calls him at 3 pm to say 'I'm leaving, come by the house later when you're ready, I'll call you when I get home.'

He calls Chase at 5.45 pm to say he's home. Chase turns off his phone before he heads down there, which shows me premeditation. Joey logs onto QB at about 6 pm.

I don't know if Joey would be on the internet constantly during lunch if he's discussing all this stuff about QB with Chase.

MOO

Forgive me for being dense but was it stated that Joseph was on the internet after the 1:01 call? TIA.

 

[citygirl]

But if he can't remember, and Jarvis memory was incorrect, then by definition he has no Alibi.

This is the nexus I want to zero in on.

You can make any excuses you want as to why but at the end of the day he has no alibi.

Do you at least accept that much?

That didn't sit well with me. He pushed his responsibility for his whereabouts on her. I'm sure seasoned investigators picked up on that. MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

That didn't sit well with me. He pushed his responsibility for his whereabouts on her. I'm sure seasoned investigators picked up on that. MOO.

Agreed.

For whatever reason, CM has never given a reliable account of his whereabouts, at the time the McStays were being murdered.

AFAIK, everyone else has an alibi.

 

[Force Ten]

Well I figure he couldn't kill Joey at Rancho because Cathy was there and it was too busy in ChickfilA so that's when he decided to do it at the house and Summer and the boys would have to go too. He does seem to have made the decision when he turned off his phone - which is my interpretation of the evidence and I do understand some people wish to consider it could have been Chase having phone connectivity issues for the next 5 hours.

MOO.

It could also explain why Joseph kept calling Chase, not Chase calling Joseph. I do like your version of events. The only thing the gives me pause is Joseph waiting for 2 hours without texting or calling anyone including Chase. I really wish we knew for certain why Chase kept calling Cathy and if she remembers at all.

Whatever the reason for the meeting there had to have been something that required them to see each other physically. I feel Chase used the excuse of the checks because that may have been done in the past. Why couldn't Joseph send a check in the mail? Unless, as an addict would do, Chase convinced Joseph he needed money, i.e. rent.

 

[mrjitty]

It could also explain why Joseph kept calling Chase, not Chase calling Joseph. I do like your version of events. The only thing the gives me pause is Joseph waiting for 2 hours without texting or calling anyone including Chase. I really wish we knew for certain why Chase kept calling Cathy and if she remembers at all.

Whatever the reason for the meeting there had to have been something that required them to see each other physically. I feel Chase used the excuse of the checks because that may have been done in the past. Why couldn't Joseph send a check in the mail? Unless, as an addict would do, Chase convinced Joseph he needed money, i.e. rent.

A two hour meeting implies a detailed catch up on multiple projects IMO

I think the forged cheque side swiped the day

 

[missy1974]

Forgive me for being dense but was it stated that Joseph was on the internet after the 1:01 call? TIA.

Yes, here is a snip from some testimony weeks ago LOL I can't recall who's it was... maybe phone dudes?

 

[Force Ten]

LE says they verified it. So either you believe LE or not lol I to would like to see proof, which we don't have yet.

Maybe half true. They verified Joseph's phone pinged a tower in RC near CFL. It's never been verified if either one was at the restaurant.

Now that I think about it, Dailymail never took Merritt's picture inside. I wonder if that Merritt didn't want to or for legal reasons CFL wouldn't allow.

 

[Force Ten]

Yes, here is a snip from some testimony weeks ago LOL I can't recall who's it was... maybe phone dudes?

So no activity between 1:13 and 2:04 (those numbers seem ominous ). This seems to narrow things a bit more.

Do we have a time for the bank deposit yet?

 

[missy1974]

OK but now you are moving the goalposts

do you accept, based on his statement, he has no alibi?

That is the single narrow, but critical point I am making.



No i don't know. But for me the key point is she did not know where Chase was, and he has never told us.

Evidential burden of alibi evidence is on the accused, not on the state.

Right now, I would say he doesn't have an alibi that I know of ;-)

Just because she couldn't get a hold of him, doesn't mean she didn't know where he was, I don't have evidence of that. Hopefully she will testify and if she recalls she can tell us herself! I have been able to get a glance at the cell records, there were other times calls went to VM's with no tower info and until we see his full records, I don't know that it was even out of the ordinary.

Just as an example... I can know where my husband is, but his phone for some reason isn't connecting and I have to leave a VM, it doesn't mean I don't know where he is, it means I couldn't get through on his cell. (This happens more than you know lol When he goes out to nowhere Saskatchewan and can't get cell service, but he's learned over the years to always text me where he is before he leaves the city - good man, cuz I'm a worrier lol)

I'm inclined to think that his cell phone was off, but I just don't know that right now. And because I can see some serious issues with their cell service, I just don't know yet. Even listening to the Chase interview, when he calls her, it takes 3 times to get connected. They lose connection, they can't hear each other, and then finally they connect.

All JMO

 

[Force Ten]

Patrick did not hire Spring. It was Michael and, I believe, Susan.

The Spring/IR3 is a mysterious happening in this case. He was hired because of his deep, validated connections with Mexico. He went to Mexico, searching for the family, following lead after lead. He returned, empty handed, disillusioned, and angry. Ultimately, he wrote a small, but quite detailed report about Joey's and Summer's cell phones pinging off of the two towers on the old Bonsall Bridge. Both cell phones, along with Summer's purse, have never been found. Apparently, the authorities did not agree with nor deny the report. Strangely, the day after the graves were found, the IR3 website was taken down. Ultimately, James Spring was dismissed as a fraud.

Up until the disappearance of the McStays, Spring was certainly not considered to be a fraud. I have always questioned why he would have written that report at all if it was a lie. For what purpose? It didn't make any sense then, and it doesn't now.

I've been to that old, abandoned bridge. Walked over it. At that point in time, the river beneath would have been raging (as I'm sure it is right now). Can't help but have this gnawing feeling that the Bonsall Bridge has seen what we seek to know.

But, maybe that's because it's ....................... mysterious.

By the way, I read recently, somewhere down the line, that the bridge is a well-known paintballing area - obviously during dry months.

Here is the report: New cell tower info indicates that the missing McStay family was in Bonsall. | iR3: International Rescue & Recovery Resource

I remember that whole flap well. It caused a damn frenzied uproar. It lead many to believe the family was dumped at the bridge, even though they could have ten miles from there. One guy in particular tried to play detective and snooped around a bit. People outright accused SDSO of not taking the lead seriously and investigating, even though the 'pings' could not be validated. IMO even though Spring tried to help I think he did a great disservice.