CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9

[geevee]

Certainly. But has theft and forgery been proven?

You seem to think so as you referred to it as "paid to himself because he was actually owed that amount".

 

[citygirl]

That was the last day he saw JM in person. CM figures If JM files charges against him for theft he can contend that JM gave him the checks or created them when they met in RC, on Feb. 4th, creating a plausible deniability defense for CM.

Thanks. Operative word to me is "creating". So you agree that they met and CM feared he would file charges against him for theft?

 

[JMarsh]

You seem to think so as you referred to it as "paid to himself because he was actually owed that amount".

I was referring to him paying himself per an arrangement made at Joey's request.

We may never know for certain if Joey asked for this new arrangement, but it seems like a stretch for someone to kill a family of four to get money Chase was already owed, and that history showed, he would have been paid anyway had Joey lived.

If Chase had written checks to the tune of 100K, that records showed he wasn't owed, for projects that didn't exist, that would be one thing. But all the checks written are in keeping with the amounts Chase was owed. (says the defense, so we'll see if they can produce the evidence to back this claim made in their opening).

Regardless, 20K is not a lot of money. Chase was getting paid much more than that. Seems crazy to kill the golden goose, for no reason.

 

[Texas Red]

Oh come on

I did a paper on this at law school - you are dreaming if you think the defence can make out an action

You went to law school on a different continent, correct?

 

[Alf]

How was this man held 5 years on murder charges? What was the probable cause? I would ask for that dismissal right about now.. they haven't even proven that he actually stole any funds to the point he'd probably be found innocent if this was an embezzlement trial. In the United States of America your supposed to have evidence that has probable cause that the charges have most likely been committed by the accused. This seems like a trial in the middle east.. Pitiful. It makes the entire country look bad.

 

[mrjitty]

The prosecution isn't claiming they had lunch. That is for the defense to prove - that is his claim.

The kids were in bath towels and their bathroom mat was missing. Painters tape was in the grave. If that doesn't tell you what most likely happened since there are NO survivors then you have to use your best judgement as to where you think they were killed. Why would Chase be at the house writing a cheque at that exact time if they weren't dead or at least tied up by him?

They were murdered so why does showing it was in the house or taken alive and killed at the graveside where Chase's phone pinged change a thing in terms of his guilt?

I've been reading up quite a bit on crime scene staging and profiling in recent days

Things that stand out to me

• The offender is "organised", in that there is serious staging (Mexico)
• In the case of such staging, the offender will be obviously connected to the deceased
• Therefore there will only be 1-2 serious suspects - and it is a case of last man standing
• The overkill to the face / head is quite significant - this was someone who knew them.

Unfortunately because the bodies were found so late, we are missing quite a bit of the picture of the assaults. IMO there was a sexual aspect.

 

[mrjitty]

You went to law school on a different continent, correct?

Cite your authorities if you think it can be made out.

It is a very difficult action.

 

[JMarsh]

The probable cause affidavit was fabricated, based on facts not supported by evidence all part of Ramos' political ploy.

Not sure that's true. Have you read the search warrants? And there were well over 40 of them. All signed by different judges. Chase was held to answer at prelim by the judge currently presiding over this case.

 

[missy1974]

rsbm

Sounds like he may have had a need to keep her sweet.

Or he was keeping in contact with the mother of his children and his children? Some people can separate as a couple AND still do this for the children.

There is really no evidence either way, is there? Assumptions can be made all over the place, but with no evidence, it's just assumptions and opinions. Last I looked, he was not on trial for his lack of stellar parental skills, he is on trial for murder.

 

[Force Ten]

It proves that he fabricated an alibi.

And? Doesn't make him a murderer, right?

 

[JMarsh]

How was this man held 5 years on murder charges? What was the probable cause? I would ask for that dismissal right about now.. they haven't even proven that he actually stole any funds to the point he'd probably be found innocent if this was an embezzlement trial. In the United States of America your supposed to have evidence that has probable cause that the charges have most likely been committed by the accused. This seems like a trial in the middle east.. Pitiful. It makes the entire country look bad.

You aren't going to get too much argument from me on this, except that numerous judges believed there to be probable cause. And Chase was held to answer at prelim. There are still people who believe Chase is guilty....

Convictions have actually been won on less.

 

[JMarsh]

Or he was keeping in contact with the mother of his children and his children? Some people can separate as a couple AND still do this for the children.

There is really no evidence either way, is there? Assumptions can be made all over the place, but with no evidence, it's just assumptions and opinions. Last I looked, he was not on trial for his lack of stellar parental skills, he is on trial for murder.

But there are lots of indications he was a good father.

 

[missy1974]

I was referring to him paying himself per an arrangement made at Joey's request.

We may never know for certain if Joey asked for this new arrangement, but it seems like a stretch for someone to kill a family of four to get money Chase was already owed, and that history showed, he would have been paid anyway had Joey lived.

If Chase had written checks to the tune of 100K, that records showed he wasn't owed, for projects that didn't exist, that would be one thing. But all the checks written are in keeping with the amounts Chase was owed. (says the defense, so we'll see if they can produce the evidence to back this claim made in their opening).

Regardless, 20K is not a lot of money. Chase was getting paid much more than that. Seems crazy to kill the golden goose, for no reason.

I am really looking forward to this evidence. I thought we would see more in the prosecution's case with the actual quickbooks account, but we didn't and I don't think we will. I have been able to find some old spreadsheets in an old thread (and thanks to someone sending me the link to that thread), and there is so much that doesn't make sense to me as of right now.

 

[mrjitty]

The probable cause affidavit was fabricated, based on facts not supported by evidence all part of Ramos' political ploy.

BIB

You will need to be specific about what you think was fabricated.

 

[tmar]

And a huge leap for her. She must have loved and believed in him. They had 3 children together. What a heart breaker. A real nightmare. JMO.
Really interesting that his siblings walked out of the court room. Did this take them by surprise?

For his siblings to walk out of the room is an eye opener.
They may be completely surprised/shocked and don't want to witness CM's downfall now.
MOO.

 

[Force Ten]

In the earlier lengthy discussion about this I expressed my concern about how the data Dr. Rudin used was manipulated in order to obtain a desired result. IMO, the judge came to the same conclusion.

Manipulated? How so? Do you know something about this technology?

 

[mrjitty]

I was referring to him paying himself per an arrangement made at Joey's request.

This is not in evidence

Defence must produce a witness or exhibit

 

[geevee]

I was referring to him paying himself per an arrangement made at Joey's request.

We may never know for certain if Joey asked for this new arrangement, but it seems like a stretch for someone to kill a family of four to get money Chase was already owed, and that history showed, he would have been paid anyway had Joey lived.

If Chase had written checks to the tune of 100K, that records showed he wasn't owed, for projects that didn't exist, that would be one thing. But all the checks written are in keeping with the amounts Chase was owed. (says the defense, so we'll see if they can produce the evidence to back this claim made in their opening).

Regardless, 20K is not a lot of money. Chase was getting paid much more than that. Seems crazy to kill the golden goose, for no reason.

It seems to me the last e-mails from Joey were stating he'd overpaid Chase, not the other way around. And Joey would have been intelligent enough to know that he could not legally allow CM to sign Joey's name to his checks without making him an authorized signatory on the EIP bank account - and why would he?

If JM thought he owed CM money, he hadn't planned to be killed and buried in the desert, he would have cut him those checks himself. Just illogical fairy tales the defense is dreaming up to defend the indefensible.

 

[Force Ten]

We're back.....

 

[mrjitty]

I am really looking forward to this evidence. I thought we would see more in the prosecution's case with the actual quickbooks account, but we didn't and I don't think we will. I have been able to find some old spreadsheets in an old thread (and thanks to someone sending me the link to that thread), and there is so much that doesn't make sense to me as of right now.

But surely at a high level it is clear Chase created and backdated and deleted cheques and forged Joey's signature on multiple occasions?

Do you accept those aspects?