I don't agree. They had no need, they had the transcript of her interview and that's all that mattered. It's naive to think the prosecution wouldn't have expected yesterday that she would try to help her brother. It's expected and it turned out well for the prosecution because she came off as lying now about her state of mind and drooling etc then. She had good recall in 2013 of going to see the children at cocos, Bennett driving out to her etc. That's not can't remember.
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9
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There is no rational motive for murder. Yet someone broke kids skulls with a sledge hammer. That is the trouble with this kind of thinking.
The motive exists only from the internal perspective of the accused. We saw this a lot on the Pistorius case where people claimed he didn't murder Reeva because there was no good reason for him to do so. But that is not how abusers and sociopaths operate. Frequently they escalate to physical violence that can no longer be concealed. It is common for these type of people to ruin their own lives in pursuit of their goals because they have personality disorders.
You list incentives but IMO this was primarily about control over Joey.
To take everything that was his. To erase his family. To rape his wife.
To bury him to rot in a shallow grave where only Chase knew where he was.
To talk to police, family etc knowing secretly you had bashed his brains out.
How do you or the jury know she is lying?
And surely when the prosecution call a witness they should be on their side as it’s anout making their case about Chase?!
Exactly.
Also the prosecution is not allowed to coach the witness.
Nor can they make the witness speak to them.
It's not so simple as that. Some witnesses are borderline hostile.
And in this case I think there is a clear duty to call this witness.
Longtimenoc
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Excellent summation!None of it works IMO.
To believe him, the jury is going to have to suck up the following:
Saudi Arabia money;
1. Joey asked Chase to create himself a cheque (and delete it) and he already had three blank cheques in his possession to do that before Feb 1st. Two cheques which he printed on 1st for $2500 but never banked (memo line deposit), and one printed on Feb 2nd which he did bank for $2495 - memo line deposit sa 1001.
2. Joey gave Chase two more blank cheques to create for himself on the 4th, one which he backdated printed and deleted on the 5th but didn't bank ($6505 - memo line bal sa 1001) and one he backdated printed and deleted on the 8th which he did bank ($6500 - memo line saudi arabia final).
So that's five blank cheques there just for Saudi Arabia, three of them given to him before Feb 1st (two trashed and one cashed) and two of them supposedly given to him on Feb 4th (one trashed and one banked).
Paul Mitchell money;
3. On the 4th, after giving Chase blank cheques for it at lunch time, Joey supposedly according to DT created a cheque for Chase $4000 memo Paul Mitchell.
4. On the 5th Chase would write a Paul Mitchell cheque not knowing that Joey had created one on his computer the night before.
Plus jury needs to either believe or ignore;
5. Joey would go to the bother of creating a cheque but not bother printing it.
6. Joey would be murdered when that cheque on the 4th was created but his murder is not connected to the cheques.
7. The murder is personal and it is someone who was right up close to Joey, within an arm's reach with this short hammer, in his personal space, and he didn't know it was coming - took no steps to run away, but the murderer didn't just leave the bodies in the house to let the world know they had been murdered, the fact of the murders had to be hidden, which adds to the murderer's profile as being someone who would be connected immediately.
8. Metro calling and emailing Joey on the 5th, might well raise the alarm about Joey being missing would be paid cheques and stop calling Joey. Who created the cheques for Metro? Chase. Such bad luck.
9. Chase would create cheques the next day backdated to the date of Joey's murder, not knowing he's been murdered, making that date a highly significant and sensitive issue to the writer.
10. Joey would not give Chase a cheque on the 2nd for Saudi Arabia but would give him a cheque for $100, knowing he already had three blanks, and Chase would drive all the way to Fallbrook and back on 2nd just to get that $100.
11. Joey would not follow his usual practice of issuing cheques to Chase that week.
12. Joey would send Chase an email on Feb 1st saying Chase owes him $42845, and not include the Saudi Arabia money as deductible or payable yet.
13. Chase would not mention the $ he had paid himself to detectives when he showed them the email. He says Joey owed him after those projects but since he's already paid himself he's not owed anything when they talk to him.
14. Joey would give blank cheque stock to Chase or tell him to sign his cheques, knowing he is financially reckless, has prior convictions, has had to pay money to help Cathy before, and is not working as expected but is in the casinos.
15. Cheque stock is missing and it's pure coincidence that Chase was writing and printing his own cheques somewhere other than on Joey's computers.
16. There is zero evidence that Joey met Chase at lunch on the 4th. There is however a bit of a panic on Chase's end as he makes 13 calls in 9 minutes. And if that meeting is unproven then not only did Chase not get more blank cheques from Joey that day he didn't touch his hand either.
17. Joey just happened to coincidentally call his bank, log into QB must have been to look at something else in his books as he's driving, and then call his bank again on his way to Rancho Cucamonga, but it's unconnected to the murder or the cheque that cleared on the 4th.
18. Chase has never had an alibi for the 4th but now his memory has improved and he can tell Cathy where she was and where he was, even though they wracked their brains together over this for years, she saw a call on his phone that never came in and then called his phone knowing it was on the counter, while she's also at school and he's at the movies.
19. Phone pings where the bodies were buried.
20. No calls to Joey that Saturday, one on Sunday and none on Monday morning when he's telling Carmen he hasn't been able to get hold of Joey.
21. Chase calls Susan Blake the day after the Trooper went to San Ysidro.
22. Chase's bank account shows balances far higher than he's had before, looking back over the prior year. Joey got generous when he was murdered.
Of course all this can be explained by confirmation bias.
Alisajo
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I agree with you.
JMO, A Gambler's goal is Money $$$$. Control of the Business would be a Windfall $$$$.
IIRC a large Contract was the next phase of the Business $$$$. JMO
None of it works IMO.
To believe him, the jury is going to have to suck up the following:
Saudi Arabia money;
1. Joey asked Chase to create himself a cheque (and delete it) and he already had three blank cheques in his possession to do that before Feb 1st. Two cheques which he printed on 1st for $2500 but never banked (memo line deposit), and one printed on Feb 2nd which he did bank for $2495 - memo line deposit sa 1001.
2. Joey gave Chase two more blank cheques to create for himself on the 4th, one which he backdated printed and deleted on the 5th but didn't bank ($6505 - memo line bal sa 1001) and one he backdated printed and deleted on the 8th which he did bank ($6500 - memo line saudi arabia final).
So that's five blank cheques there just for Saudi Arabia, three of them given to him before Feb 1st (two trashed and one cashed) and two of them supposedly given to him on Feb 4th (one trashed and one banked).
Paul Mitchell money;
3. On the 4th, after giving Chase blank cheques for it at lunch time, Joey supposedly according to DT created a cheque for Chase $4000 memo Paul Mitchell.
4. On the 5th Chase would write a Paul Mitchell cheque not knowing that Joey had created one on his computer the night before.
Plus jury needs to either believe or ignore;
5. Joey would go to the bother of creating a cheque but not bother printing it.
6. Joey would be murdered when that cheque on the 4th was created but his murder is not connected to the cheques.
7. The murder is personal and it is someone who was right up close to Joey, within an arm's reach with this short hammer, in his personal space, and he didn't know it was coming - took no steps to run away, but the murderer didn't just leave the bodies in the house to let the world know they had been murdered, the fact of the murders had to be hidden, which adds to the murderer's profile as being someone who would be connected immediately.
8. Metro calling and emailing Joey on the 5th, might well raise the alarm about Joey being missing would be paid cheques and stop calling Joey. Who created the cheques for Metro? Chase. Such bad luck.
9. Chase would create cheques the next day backdated to the date of Joey's murder, not knowing he's been murdered, making that date a highly significant and sensitive issue to the writer.
10. Joey would not give Chase a cheque on the 2nd for Saudi Arabia but would give him a cheque for $100, knowing he already had three blanks, and Chase would drive all the way to Fallbrook and back on 2nd just to get that $100.
11. Joey would not follow his usual practice of issuing cheques to Chase that week.
12. Joey would send Chase an email on Feb 1st saying Chase owes him $42845, and not include the Saudi Arabia money as deductible or payable yet.
13. Chase would not mention the $ he had paid himself to detectives when he showed them the email. He says Joey owed him after those projects but since he's already paid himself he's not owed anything when they talk to him.
14. Joey would give blank cheque stock to Chase or tell him to sign his cheques, knowing he is financially reckless, has prior convictions, has had to pay money to help Cathy before, and is not working as expected but is in the casinos.
15. Cheque stock is missing and it's pure coincidence that Chase was writing and printing his own cheques somewhere other than on Joey's computers.
16. There is zero evidence that Joey met Chase at lunch on the 4th. There is however a bit of a panic on Chase's end as he makes 13 calls in 9 minutes. And if that meeting is unproven then not only did Chase not get more blank cheques from Joey that day he didn't touch his hand either.
17. Joey just happened to coincidentally call his bank, log into QB must have been to look at something else in his books as he's driving, and then call his bank again on his way to Rancho Cucamonga, but it's unconnected to the murder or the cheque that cleared on the 4th.
18. Chase has never had an alibi for the 4th but now his memory has improved and he can tell Cathy where she was and where he was, even though they wracked their brains together over this for years, she saw a call on his phone that never came in and then called his phone knowing it was on the counter, while she's also at school and he's at the movies.
19. Phone pings where the bodies were buried.
20. No calls to Joey that Saturday, one on Sunday and none on Monday morning when he's telling Carmen he hasn't been able to get hold of Joey.
21. Chase calls Susan Blake the day after the Trooper went to San Ysidro.
22. Chase's bank account shows balances far higher than he's had before, looking back over the prior year. Joey got generous when he was murdered.
Of course all this can be explained by confirmation bias.
Fantastic post T!
Just focussing on this...
The choice of murder weapon is very revealing IMO
If this were just about money, I'd expect to find the victims executed in an efficient manner - get the dirty business over with a minimum of fuss.
This killer wanted to enjoy brutalising his victims. The injuries are sadistic.
Which brings us to the next point.
There is no chance the victims were alive at the grave site. Victims are seldom murdered at the dumping site in these kind of cases. They were tormented and savaged somewhere that the killer had control over them. So often they are taken from one place and murdered at a hidden location. Yet I still think in this case the murder scene is indeed the house. Painters tape, kids bath robe etc,
IMO "the graveside knife" business is a Chase idea - probably because there was a knife involved in controlling Summer.
So one of hidden aspects of the case is that there probably is a third crime scene where the family were taken after being murdered. I just don't think they were alive there.
It's also worth mentioning that these kinds of people often make highly unrealistic plans
So I would agree Chase probably thought he could take it all.
I hope Quickbooks post a FAQ about the dangers of non traditional accounting.
Further on the hammer - its not one of the more common weapon choices for someone who would be looking to break in and subdue the family
However it is a weapon strongly associated with domestic murder, anger and control, according to several sources
e.g.
However it is a weapon strongly associated with domestic murder, anger and control, according to several sources
e.g.
Emotional Use of a Weapon (Anger and Power)
Weapon choice and use can also demonstrate an offenders’ emotional expressiveness, feelings of inadequacy and anger towards the victim. In some research the weapon moves beyond a utility function to facilitate a crime and appeared to be related to an intent to harm the victim. This is consistent with expressive violence (Salfati, 2000). A practical example would be an offender brandishing a hammer or axe as compared to a knife in order to elicit terror and increase the damage potential. The choice of weapon in these instances may indicate differential motivations and thus generate discriminatory offender characteristics able to aid in offender profiling.
https://file.scirp.org/pdf/BLR_2013032014321731.pdf
Weapon choice and use can also demonstrate an offenders’ emotional expressiveness, feelings of inadequacy and anger towards the victim. In some research the weapon moves beyond a utility function to facilitate a crime and appeared to be related to an intent to harm the victim. This is consistent with expressive violence (Salfati, 2000). A practical example would be an offender brandishing a hammer or axe as compared to a knife in order to elicit terror and increase the damage potential. The choice of weapon in these instances may indicate differential motivations and thus generate discriminatory offender characteristics able to aid in offender profiling.
https://file.scirp.org/pdf/BLR_2013032014321731.pdf
JMarsh
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I don't know that I would credit Juanita's testimony with any type of drug related memory loss, although, that's very possible.
I think when Smith came to interview her in 2013 or 2014, she knew where the bodies had been found, and she thought that if she told LE that Chase frequently visited her, this fact would make him a prime suspect.
So she probably did fib a little then.
I've actually always thought this, even from the time of the prelim. Because it made no sense that Chase didn't visit his sick sister. That family is close. I could tell they were close at the prelim. It's obvious from what has happened around this trial that they care about each other. And I believe Chase also helped Bennett with the driving. That all seems highly likely.
I suspect once she realized her white lie back then hurt Chase, that she is now telling the truth about his visits. People who are afraid of law enforcement do lie sometimes. They can lie out of fear, not because they are guilty of anything.And, again, she really may have been so doped up at that first interview that she was just mistaken.
At the end of the day, it actually doesn't matter. The DA has failed to connect Chase Merritt to any act of violence, let alone murder.
That's the essential piece to all of this.
If we care about justice for the McStays, we have to look at the evidence that is relevant. What is the evidence that can be relied on telling us? What story does that house tell? What story does the placement of the Trooper tell, and what the Trooper looked like when found? What story do the graves tell us?
And what more should be looked at, needed to be looked at....
That's the evidence that has to be looked at again and again, until the answers come into clear focus.
JMarsh
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But the forecast for money coming in was five times that amount, if not more. It all would have worked out. The only motive that makes any sense in all this, is if Joey was planning to fire Chase. Then there would be a reason for Chase to have woke rage. But there has been zero evidence presented that Joey had any plans of firing Chase. None whatsoever.
JMarsh
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The system in California is also responsible for a lot of wrongful convictions, as well. We are third highest in the nation for exonerations.
Apparently a killer who selects a hammer as a murder weapon is likely to be an experienced criminal, rather than a young noob.
But also, just because he used it to kill, does not mean it is the only weapon he used to subdue.
I think chase's graveside gambit may have revealed he did have at least a knife with him. And he did cut the bra. Perhaps also a gun.
Once they were subdued, he was free to terrorise them, and the selection of the hammer there is important.
I also suspect this is probably why Joey has body injuries but the others don't.
It was about the anger, the terror and the control. Joey was beaten. Summer raped. Then all battered in the same way.
This is also how he controlled the forensics.
The more I think about this, the more I think he had fantasised about this for some time.
But also, just because he used it to kill, does not mean it is the only weapon he used to subdue.
I think chase's graveside gambit may have revealed he did have at least a knife with him. And he did cut the bra. Perhaps also a gun.
Once they were subdued, he was free to terrorise them, and the selection of the hammer there is important.
I also suspect this is probably why Joey has body injuries but the others don't.
It was about the anger, the terror and the control. Joey was beaten. Summer raped. Then all battered in the same way.
This is also how he controlled the forensics.
The more I think about this, the more I think he had fantasised about this for some time.
That money was Joey’s forecast not CM’s. He was a plumber and an electrician and he had his sights on that future windfall to keep it for himself. He literally cut out the middle man. I’ve never wanted someone get the DP more than this loser. JMO
https://www.stroke.org/we-can-help/survivors/stroke-recovery/post-stroke-conditions/physical/pain/
Post-stroke pain can occur immediately, weeks, or sometimes even months after a stroke. Research shows that more than half of stroke survivors have some form of post-stroke pain. In some cases, the pain is constant (chronic) and in others, it comes and goes.
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JMarsh
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I can't believe the prosecution is close to wrapping up
For me, having had the opportunity to read the evidence over and over, as well as reading discussions about the case here, I believe Chase is guilty. Whether he had help or not, I'm not so sure. However, I am so worried that he could be acquitted. The jury hasn't had the same reading opportunities as me. They've had to sit through scattered court days, many of which were filled with confusing technical information that took a lot of explaining in order for them to understand. Amongst all of this lies the tidbits of incriminating evidence. Whether they'll be able to focus on that once the defense is through is my concern.
JMO and I hope I'm wrong. Hopefully the jurors have made excellent notes
I have to respectfully disagree with you. The jury has had the advantage of not having their minds polluted by non-essential information. They are examining only the facts that are deemed relevant by the court. Those of us on the outside are flooded with a lot of gossip, speculation and some outright garbage.
If you can't point to one solid piece of reliable evidence proving Chase's guilt, how in the world can you be so certain he is guilty?
Shouldn't the evidence, not speculation, be our guide in this?
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JMarsh
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Well, we'll have to wait for the defense's forensic accountant to lay it all out. But given the numbers I've looked at over the years, Chase stood to make a good income. And we don't even know that he did owe 42 K. People are speculating on this.
I posted a while back about thinking Chase conceived of his plan to murder Joey in 2009, and I'm back to that place again.
It can't be proven, but this is the reasoning behind my thoughts -
I believe what motivated him was seeing the potential future growth of EIP and wanting it all for himself, IDesign. No one to share it with - Joey's use in marketing the business had expired, especially with this Mr Klean contract in the pipeline worth millions.
He heard that Joey was paying Dan off. Not only that, but Dan was supposed to have received his last $2000 the weekend before the murders. On Feb 4th I have no reason to think that Chase didn't know that Joey hadn't made that final payment.
He knew that to get away with it he would have to kill Summer also because Summer would complicate the estate and with Joey murdered and Chase assuming all the contracts signed by EIP she would soon put two and two together. So he had to murder Joey and Summer together under the same roof to ensure that one wasn't unexpectedly out and find out about the murder of the other before they were also killed.
Before he could murder them Chase had to establish a new norm for writing EIP cheques which he could say was done with Joey's permission because it happened before he was murdered, and they still had lunch together and everything was hunky dory between them (in reality he didn't show up but waited it out for Joey to return home) hence the reason he stole cheque stock before Monday February 1st and visited Joey on the 2nd so that he could say that was when Joey gave him the first cheque stock. It explains why everyone thinks he was so dumb to think Joey wouldn't notice it and he could get away with it, he knew when he wrote the first cheque that he would be murdering them. He switched off his phone before he left.
He wasn't worried about overpowering Summer but he was worried about Joey fighting him off and getting away. So months before he began to slowly poison Joey to weaken him and he was monitoring the effects of this through watching Joey slowly having to give up his favourite sports or collapsing after exertion.
I'm sold on this now. I'm not saying I don't think there was a sexual element in Summer's murder, but since he's capable of wielding a hammer against innocents he's capable of acing on a sexual urge at the time too and of enjoying the control of a rapist.
All IMO.
It can't be proven, but this is the reasoning behind my thoughts -
I believe what motivated him was seeing the potential future growth of EIP and wanting it all for himself, IDesign. No one to share it with - Joey's use in marketing the business had expired, especially with this Mr Klean contract in the pipeline worth millions.
He heard that Joey was paying Dan off. Not only that, but Dan was supposed to have received his last $2000 the weekend before the murders. On Feb 4th I have no reason to think that Chase didn't know that Joey hadn't made that final payment.
He knew that to get away with it he would have to kill Summer also because Summer would complicate the estate and with Joey murdered and Chase assuming all the contracts signed by EIP she would soon put two and two together. So he had to murder Joey and Summer together under the same roof to ensure that one wasn't unexpectedly out and find out about the murder of the other before they were also killed.
Before he could murder them Chase had to establish a new norm for writing EIP cheques which he could say was done with Joey's permission because it happened before he was murdered, and they still had lunch together and everything was hunky dory between them (in reality he didn't show up but waited it out for Joey to return home) hence the reason he stole cheque stock before Monday February 1st and visited Joey on the 2nd so that he could say that was when Joey gave him the first cheque stock. It explains why everyone thinks he was so dumb to think Joey wouldn't notice it and he could get away with it, he knew when he wrote the first cheque that he would be murdering them. He switched off his phone before he left.
He wasn't worried about overpowering Summer but he was worried about Joey fighting him off and getting away. So months before he began to slowly poison Joey to weaken him and he was monitoring the effects of this through watching Joey slowly having to give up his favourite sports or collapsing after exertion.
I'm sold on this now. I'm not saying I don't think there was a sexual element in Summer's murder, but since he's capable of wielding a hammer against innocents he's capable of acing on a sexual urge at the time too and of enjoying the control of a rapist.
All IMO.
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