CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[PerplexedPatty]

Supposedly there was a picture of a backpack carrier briefly posted that morning on social media, Instagram I believe. But the sheriff said the baby was in a kangaroo carrier when found.

Right and the photo went to a specific person, iirc. MOO
But I’ve not heard the carrier was new.
If new, I do find it odd an adult woman would text a photo of it at 6:45 a.m. Jmo
To me doing so seems very juvenile.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

You're all asking what could they be spraying......
The first thing that came to my mind, and this is kinda out there,

but what about the planes spraying some kind of fire retardant out of the planes on to the fires? Could that stuff be looming in the air? So many fires all around the area.

But, then, there'd be dead birds possibly........or some sort of animal species.
IDK...

There were no fires near them at that time. All of Northern California was smoky much of this summer, but there were no active fires near Mariposa in August.

The fire that did burn that area was three years ago and aerial retardant remnants are probably long gone. Retardant is not anything you'd want to chug, but it's not instantly toxic in that sense. They drop it right on homes when necessary.

There is at least one environmental group trying to get it removed for long term toxicity (again, cancer rates and such, plus possibly fish kill for reasons of oxygen consumption IIRC) but it's not poison in the sense you are suggesting.

MOO

 

[jonjon747]

Those who believe in HS as their COD should ask oneself of these questions.

None of them showed any sign of disorientation, such as unusual activity like completely going off of a trail that are often seen in HS victims.

We can easily visualize they were all together until the last minute - not more than 1 or 2 minutes is the distance I think EC was all needed to move farther up the trail.

1. Was there any tracking found between her and the rest of the family? was she crawling, walking, or running?

Those are the key questions that need to be answered first before any kind of theory should be even considered as COD.

2. Was there a sign of distress or emergency situation? so that we could recognize better about EC's condition at the time.

IDK why LE isn't coming forward to the public with such easily obtainable type of information.

 

[Yvettea]

Right and the photo went to a specific person, iirc. MOO
But I’ve not heard the carrier was new.
If new, I do find it odd an adult woman would text a photo of it at 6:45 a.m. Jmo
To me doing so seems very juvenile.

Juvenile or not previous discussion has been that the backpack carrier was new and the supposed picture confirmed 6:45 as a sort of starting point for the timeline.

• Picture uploaded at 6:45
• Family’s vehicle spotted on the road at 7:45

Assumption is drawn from photos that Jonathan previously carried the baby in a kangaroo carrier.

 

[Yvettea]

Strange that we know so little about the SL trail. Width? Condition? We know it’s steep. Is it harrowing to walk (like some switchbacks are to drive)? We also know the trail was reopened in 2021 after being closed since the fire.

Jonathan may have been curious to see how well the mountain was reforesting or to see what repairs had recently been made to the trail. Many things come to my mind.

 

[Parsnip]

Was the carrier new?

Also, did the witness that reported seeing the family at 7:45 have a camera that verified the precise time?

We do not know that the carrier is new. I speculated that it was back on Thread 1, based upon reports of the IG photo. Others might have speculated before me. Some recall seeing the photo. It isn’t especially relevant to my hypothetical scenario except to provide one possible impetus for an outing. MOO

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Juvenile or not previous discussion has been that the backpack carrier was new and the supposed picture confirmed 6:45 as a sort of starting point for the timeline.

• Picture uploaded at 6:45
• Family’s vehicle spotted on the road at 7:45

Assumption is drawn from photos that Jonathan previously carried the baby in a kangaroo carrier.

Yes, thank you, I read previous discussion, I never found verification the carrier was “new” and Ellen texted it to show it off.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Those who believe in HS as their COD should ask oneself of these questions.

None of them showed any sign of disorientation, such as unusual activity like completely going off of a trail that are often seen in HS victims.

We can easily visualize they were all together until the last minute - not more than 1 or 2 minutes is the distance I think EC was all needed to move farther up the trail.

1. Was there any tracking found between her and the rest of the family? was she crawling, walking, or running?

Those are the key questions that need to be answered first before any kind of theory should be even considered as COD.

2. Was there a sign of distress or emergency situation? so that we could recognize better about EC's condition at the time.

IDK why LE isn't coming forward to the public with such easily obtainable type of information.

Imo because they don’t need help from the public. They’ve conducted countless interviews (per Sheriff B), the autopsies yielded “few clues”, not “no clues” (linked previously) and it appears the few clues, info collected at the scene by the CA DOJ, and any other evidence collected led to the final phase, forensic toxicology. Moo

 

[jonjon747]

If I might be so bold, I will change your question to "who became immobilized first" because I really have no idea of the extent of the biological processes, and I think the relevant question is who lost the ability to react first.

The scenario we have suggests to me that JC became ill or unresponsive first. Mainly because I can't picture him remaining seated 100 feet from EC as she collapsed, if he was able to move.

Of course considering they were in a stretch of switchbacks, we don't even know whether JC and EC could see each other from their respective locations, or whether a hairpin turn blocked their view of each other.

Still, the image that EC was attempting to get help creates the impression that he went down first.

Do you see it a different way? I will keep trying to envision it too.

I share the similar view as yours.
Other than maybe there are little things that have always bothered me.

When EC found out that JG was unable to continue on, was she in such a hurry that maybe forgot to take his phone with her?

or was she moving up ahead of others to check up and see how far they still have more to go?

 

[Yvettea]

One thing seems certain to me at least, after the attention this case has attracted and given that trails and portions of a river were closed to public use, a news conference will be forthcoming at the conclusion of the investigation. While we might not learn everything, some questions will be put to rest.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

One thing seems certain to me at least, after the attention this case has attracted and given that trails and portions of a river were closed to public use, a news conference will be forthcoming at the conclusion of the investigation. While we might not learn everything, some questions will be put to rest.

Oh for sure! Imo, if there is any chance a deadly mystery toxin is responsible we’d already have alerts. There is no way to keep people out of the forest, river, ponds, etc.
airbnbs have booked up since this occurred, I’m sure a lot of people are looking for the scene. Again, they can enter w/o using a public parking area.
moo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Strange that we know so little about the SL trail. Width? Condition? We know it’s steep. Is it harrowing to walk (like some switchbacks are to drive)? We also know the trail was reopened in 2021 after being closed since the fire.

Jonathan may have been curious to see how well the mountain was reforesting or to see what repairs had recently been made to the trail. Many things come to my mind.

From earlier this thread, showing the trail. I had speculated a vehicle driving down/up it, but photos show that to not be reasonable unless a smallish ATV:

Here's pictures taken in 2015 (bad drought year, hardly any rain) of a maintenance crew working on the Savage Lundy Trail. For more pictures swipe arrows.

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[everybodhi]

Personally, I think postmortem tox’ analysis is for the sole purpose of ruling in/out a specific drug. Moo



Typical drugs and substances that may undergo toxicology screening for a forensic toxicology report include:

• volatiles (e.g., chloroform, ethanol [alcohol], acetone, isopropanol, methanol and toluene)
• illicit drugs (e.g., heroin, cocaine, marijuana, PCP, methamphetamine)
• prescription drugs (e.g., benzodiazepines, opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates)
• over-the-counter substances (e.g., ibuprofen, acetaminophen)
• drug metabolites (break-down products of drugs)

Toxicology Drug Testing

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My partner died from natural causes, an undiagnosed heart condition.
He appeared very healthy, swam laps everyday and ate a healthy vegetarian diet since he was a teenager. He had yearly check ups and no high blood pressure.
Because of his sudden passing I had an autopsy done, I needed to know why he died.
Even though they obviously knew quickly that the cause of death was left ventricular hypertrophy, I didn't get the results for 6 months in California, as they waited for the tox results.
The tox results didn't determine why he died, there was nothing there that could have been an extenuating factor in his death, but they still waited until it was complete to determine cause of death and release the report.
Every autopsy gets one before it's complete, no matter what.

 

[jonjon747]

Imo because they don’t need help from the public. They’ve conducted countless interviews (per Sheriff B), the autopsies yielded “few clues”, not “no clues” (linked previously) and it appears the few clues, info collected at the scene by the CA DOJ, and any other evidence collected led to the final phase, forensic toxicology. Moo

That's not true though.
LE did release a few information in regards to footprints found near the trailhead, and that premise led to the whole investigation believing that the family may have almost went around the whole loop.
I haven't heard anything else since then, nothing, nada to learn about anything like what kind of situations they were in or by informing the public about their activity with any additional clues found.

This lack of information is giving the wrong impression and added confusion to the public because as it seems for now, the family just appeared out of nowhere because there's not a single sign of activity surrounding them or the path they've taken all along?

Other cases like PK mentioned here had GPS device to prove heatstroke as the cause.
JG had a phone equipped with GPS quite definitely, why not provide any more new clues? It's been over a whole month now.

 

[Parsnip]

My partner died from natural causes, an undiagnosed heart condition.
He appeared very healthy, swam laps everyday and ate a healthy vegetarian diet since he was a teenager. He had yearly check ups and no high blood pressure.
Because of his sudden passing I had an autopsy done, I needed to know why he died.
Even though they obviously knew quickly that the cause of death was left ventricular hypertrophy, I didn't get the results for 6 months in California, as they waited for the tox results.
The tox results didn't determine why he died, there was nothing there that could have been an extenuating factor in his death, but they still waited until it was complete to determine cause of death and release the report.
Every autopsy gets one before it's complete, no matter what.

I am sorry, @everybodhi . That must have been awful.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

My partner died from natural causes, an undiagnosed heart condition.
He appeared very healthy, swam laps everyday and ate a healthy vegetarian diet since he was a teenager. He had yearly check ups and no high blood pressure.
Because of his sudden passing I had an autopsy done, I needed to know why he died.
Even though they obviously knew quickly that the cause of death was left ventricular hypertrophy, I didn't get the results for 6 months in California, as they waited for the tox results.
The tox results didn't determine why he died, there was nothing there that could have been an extenuating factor in his death, but they still waited until it was complete to determine cause of death and release the report.
Every autopsy gets one before it's complete, no matter what.

Sorry. And yes, I posted earlier to use Anna Nicole, Prince, Michael Jackson articles as reference, (because it is easy to find), one can compare DoD to the date CoD is announced.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

That's not true though.
LE did release a few information in regards to footprints found near the trailhead, and that premise led to the whole investigation believing that the family may have almost went around the whole loop.
I haven't heard anything else since then, nothing, nada to learn about anything like what kind of situations they were in or by informing the public about their activity with any additional clues found.

This lack of information is giving the wrong impression and added confusion to the public because as it seems for now, the family just appeared out of nowhere because there's not a single sign of activity surrounding them or the path they've taken all along?

Other cases like PK mentioned here had GPS device to prove heatstroke as the cause.
JG had a phone equipped with GPS quite definitely, why not provide any more new clues? It's been over a whole month now.

Speculation: info received from interviewing family and friends directed the investigation to where it is. Giving us, the public clues, is not helpful. Moo

The sheriff repeatedly mentions the help his department has received. A lot of help for heat related deaths, huh? Moo


Briese said detectives have been working “around the clock” to determine what killed the family, and that his department has been getting lots of help from state and federal partners, including the FBI.


Read more here: https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article254080593.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article254080593.html

 

[Yvettea]

Oh for sure! Imo, if there is any chance a deadly mystery toxin is responsible we’d already have alerts. There is no way to keep people out of the forest, river, ponds, etc.
airbnbs have booked up since this occurred, I’m sure a lot of people are looking for the scene. Again, they can enter w/o using a public parking area.
moo

If people are swarming the areas where JG and EC hiked it seems someone else would have encountered some difficulties from heat, exhaustion, algae toxins.

Environmental causes? Maybe not after all.

 

[everybodhi]

Sorry. And yes, I posted earlier to use Anna Nicole, Prince, Michael Jackson articles as reference, (because it is easy to find), one can compare DoD to the date CoD is announced.

Those people all showed drugs in the tox results, but every autopsy gets a tox screen for a long list of substances before it is completed, no matter what, it is standard.
Waiting on a tox screen is normal, it doesn't indicate anything.
It may be relavent, or not.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Those people all showed drugs in the tox results, but every autopsy gets a tox screen for a long list of substances before it is completed, no matter what, it is standard.
Waiting on a tox screen is normal, it doesn't indicate anything.
It may be relavent, or not.

In most cases a body is released to the mortuary immediately after autopsy.
Imo after autopsy—before tox’ analysis the coroner has been briefed by pathologists and has a pretty good idea on CoD and spoken with next of kin. I had a situation requiring a death investigation and was able to proceed with celebration of life arrangements the moment the autopsy was completed. I had to wait appx 90 days for the final autopsy report.
The reason I referenced “those people” was to use as an example of length of time between death and CoD if tox’ analysis was performed.

Have you (or anyone) heard if the family has been cremated?