CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[sfinkz]

Ah, thank you - keep us updated as to whether there’s an extension!

Yes, the extension of the Merced River South Fork trailhead closures in vicinity of Hites Cove was extended yesterday, the day it was to expire, until October 29.

eta: well, couldn’t upload file of order extending closure, talked with SNF info officer who spent a long time confirming extension, hidden under ‘alerts’ on SNF home page.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Sheriff Briese usually has weekly updates on his FB and YT channel, but not for the last three weeks.

I noticed he is also the coroner for his area. We have a different system here in Canada (depending on the province) so I don’t quite understand—if the Department of Justice (and FBI) are involved in this case will Sheriff Briese still be the coroner who makes the final determination about cause and manner of death, etc.? Or will a state or federal agency determine that?

 

[RedHaus]

Sheriff Briese usually has weekly updates on his FB and YT channel, but not for the last three weeks. I noticed he is also the coroner for his area. We have a different system here in Canada (depending on the province) so I don’t quite understand—if the Department of Justice (and FBI) are involved in this case will Sheriff Briese still be the coroner who makes the final determination about cause and manner of death, etc.? Or will a state or federal agency determine that?

Yes, @Lexiintoronto, I have wondered the same thing, at least with respect to state or federal jurisdiction for this case. I understand the family perished on federal land, so wouldn't this be an FBI case? And I know the FBI, per MSM reporting, is tasked with accessing phone data for the case. But which agency is "in charge" of the case?

 

[al66pine]

Map-a-Holics

My name is Paul, and I'm a map-a-holic. Paper, electronic, they're both good....

@Lex Parsimoniae sbm for focus. Paul, you're not the only one here suffering from the M-disease. O-T to this case, but possibly of interest to self-confessed map-a-holics, here's a 2015 book I recently read & enjoyed.
Interesting how obsessed some map collectors & dealers can be. And how little differences between one map & another of the same place can lead to different travel outcomes by the users. The excellent map readers on this thread have differences of opinion or disagreement about trail names, trail difficulty & condition, etc.

"The Map Thief: The Gripping Story of an Esteemed Rare-Map Dealer Who Made Millions Stealing Priceless Maps"* by Michael Blanding
From Amazon book description: "Once considered a respectable antiquarian map dealer, E. Forbes Smiley spent years doubling as a map thief —until he was finally arrested slipping maps out of books in the Yale University library."*

Thief, E. Forbes Smiley.** Other map thief & map thefts.***
my2ct
___________________________________
* https://www.amazon.com/Map-Thief-Gripping-Esteemed-Priceless/dp/1592409407
N.B. Another book w same title is by different author w different content. Also I read on Kindle, so maps are quite small, very teeny.
** For just a few pages about thief Smiley & his crimes, try this: Forbes Smiley - Wikipedia
*** Other map thefts
Author Miles Harvey: Miles Harvey
"Miles Harvey's book The Island of Lost Maps — about the convicted map thief Gilbert Bland — describes a number of earlier thieves including two Europeans active in or before 2001" <--- from wiki on Smiley.
Early maps & book thefts gen'ly, see articles at this link:
Thefts of early maps

 

[CocoChanel]

To the map-o-holics:
We love you AND please take your support group meeting to a PM
I am kidding of course about calling it a support meeting, though your references to certain 12-step language is clever!

It’s just that generalized discussion of maps, as fun as it is, can veer this thread off topic away from this specific case. PMs can accommodate as many as 20 members, and we think that would be a better place to discuss all things related to maps. Let’s keep the posts on this thread here about the specifics of this case.

ETA - WS realizes that without any new announcements of further developments, there is not much to talk about. It’s OK to hold a silence in a thread as we wait. The thread does not disappear and will be here to continue when we get more news.

THANKS ALL for your efforts to be respectful and responsible members of Websleuths. You are each greatly appreciated, 12-steppers included!!

 

[gitana1]

I've wondered about that. But honestly, even the "regular" Hites Cove Trail is not one to be done in summer. But it is also fairly well known and popular, but in spring. We were there in late April-early May and even then the exposed hikes in that area were too hot for me. But I'm a New Englander and 70 is "hot" to me for hiking so I'm probably a bad example.

I always bring topo maps & guide books that have been recommended as accurate. I attached the Hites Cove description from one I used. Everything I read about it said not to do it in summer.

I don't quite understand WHY they would hike where they did. There's so many higher elevation hikes nearby, like along Glacier Point Rd (where we retreated-there was still snow on the trails & the rd had just opened, earliest ever on 4/30).

So, were they confused? I don't know. Most people would begin the Hites Cove Trail as indicated in my attachment-from Highway 140. Because they were coming from Mariposa perhaps they did get confused as they drove in on "back roads" through Jerseydale. I've never driven in there so don't know what the signage is like. Driving in that way, if they were planning to hike Hites Cove trail, it would have been from what's normally the "end" for people hiking in from 140. There's just nothing about Savage Lundy that would make it a "reasonable" hike to do on that day so maybe some kind of confusion?

Or were they just much less experienced in those conditions than they thought? It's a very long hike they were doing on a hot day. It doesn't sound in any way enjoyable at any point but at least going down was not as unpleasant. But this also points to what I consider a bad idea to embark on a hike where the most difficult part is on the way back. I'd always seek to gain elevation at the beginning, on the way out particularly on a warm day-basically just common sense. And no matter which way they went it was going to be uphill on the way back. And only the actual Hites Cove Trail actually follows the river. Savage Lundy is down & back through a, IMO, an extremely un-scenic area in an area of stunningly beautiful places.

I’m with you. The easy part is always at the end, when I’m more worn out.

 

[Recidivist]

Yes, the extension of the Merced River South Fork trailhead closures in vicinity of Hites Cove was extended yesterday, the day it was to expire, until October 29.

eta: well, couldn’t upload file of order extending closure, talked with SNF info officer who spent a long time confirming extension, hidden under ‘alerts’ on SNF home page.

I searched and couldn't find anything. It's so strange that they would close these places citing an "unknown hazard". If it is unknown, how do they know it exists? Something must be known. If I was a resident of Mariposa, this would concern me.

 

[Andreee]

I searched and couldn't find anything. It's so strange that they would close these places citing an "unknown hazard". If it is unknown, how do they know it exists? Something must be known. If I was a resident of Mariposa, this would concern me.

Yes, I would hope that the toxicology reports will be made public at some point, being this does affect a closed off part of the park, so concerns the public.

 

[ItalyReader]

At what point would a FOIA request be appropriate? (Freedom of information act)
After 12 weeks from latest LE update?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I searched and couldn't find anything. It's so strange that they would close these places citing an "unknown hazard". If it is unknown, how do they know it exists? Something must be known. If I was a resident of Mariposa, this would concern me.

There is the toxic algae concern. These deaths may be related to that, either directly due to ingesting the algae, or indirectly due to avoiding the water. But the investigation is ongoing, so "unknown hazard" it is. @sfinkz has said that they expect an influx of the curious when it is opened, and it's often hot well into October. NOAA predicts a high of 87F/30.5C for Mariposa on Friday, interestingly, 93F/33.9C is predicted for the SLT switchbacks. I share the opinion that many have expressed, that it's an area to avoid when it's hot. I'm sure the prospect of curious people exploring the area (where are them gold mines?) while the weather is still hot gives the authorities pause. I'd go with "closed due to an unknown hazard" too, if I were them. MOO.

 

[Yvettea]

There is the toxic algae concern. These deaths may be related to that, either directly due to ingesting the algae, or indirectly due to avoiding the water. But the investigation is ongoing, so "unknown hazard" it is. @sfinkz has said that they expect an influx of the curious when it is opened, and it's often hot well into October. NOAA predicts a high of 87F/30.5C for Mariposa on Friday, interestingly, 93F/33.9C is predicted for the SLT switchbacks. I share the opinion that many have expressed, that it's an area to avoid when it's hot. I'm sure the prospect of curious people exploring the area (where are them gold mines?) while the weather is still hot gives the authorities pause. I'd go with "closed due to an unknown hazard" too, if I were them. MOO.

Would love to know how to find the NOAA outlook predictions. Could you include a link please?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Would love to know how to find the NOAA outlook predictions. Could you include a link please?

Sure. There is a search box at upper left, enter the location you are looking for, a list will appear, hopefully with the location you meant, select that. You can also use the map lower down at right, zoom in or out, click and drag to find a specific location, and click on the location. It will give you a forecast for that spot, using some algorithm. NOAA Weather Forecast for Mariposa.

 

[sfinkz]

There is the toxic algae concern. These deaths may be related to that, either directly due to ingesting the algae, or indirectly due to avoiding the water. But the investigation is ongoing, so "unknown hazard" it is. @sfinkz has said that they expect an influx of the curious when it is opened, and it's often hot well into October. NOAA predicts a high of 87F/30.5C for Mariposa on Friday, interestingly, 93F/33.9C is predicted for the SLT switchbacks. I share the opinion that many have expressed, that it's an area to avoid when it's hot. I'm sure the prospect of curious people exploring the area (where are them gold mines?) while the weather is still hot gives the authorities pause. I'd go with "closed due to an unknown hazard" too, if I were them. MOO.

Yep, the “unknown hazard” label, which I interpret as ‘investigation ongoing’ would ensure, IMO, the area remain closed until an official explanation is cobbled together indicating cause of death and release of toxicology reports. It would be a bit awkward otherwise, whereas a ‘known hazard’ would have a concrete workaround.

Also MOO, the closure order will be rescinded shortly after LE’s report and it does seem we are approaching the ‘due date’ for these details. The public release will reignite interest and debate in this case, including ‘looky-loos’ visiting the trail but certainly not before the families are escorted to the site.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Hi everyone, I used to post on WS but let my account go dormant, causing deletion.
Only returned because we have a vacation home not far from John & Ellen.
This saddens us deeply.
Imo, this outrageous situation is not environmental. Again, MOO. May peace be with them. All moo.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Another thing I want to state, I was in Mariposa when this happened. People canoed, rafted, hiked, walked, performed outdoor tasks and NO one else died, certainly not entire family’s. Kids played in the river, dogs played in the river, NO one else even became sick. Idk what happened but in my heart, temperatures had nothing to do with the demise of Gerrish-Chung, baby and dog. It simply does not happen this way. I met them casually at social events and imo, they seemed lovely. It’s really too sad to think what actually occurred. The length of time the toxicology analysis is taking is revealing, I think. Moo all of my post is Moo.

 

[rahod1]

Another thing I want to state, I was in Mariposa when this happened. People canoed, rafted, hiked, walked, performed outdoor tasks and NO one else died, certainly not entire family’s. Kids played in the river, dogs played in the river, NO one else even became sick. Idk what happened but in my heart, temperatures had nothing to do with the demise of Gerrish-Chung, baby and dog. It simply does not happen this way. I met them casually at social events and imo, they seemed lovely. It’s really too sad to think what actually occurred. The length of time the toxicology analysis is taking is revealing, I think. Moo all of my post is Moo.

It's hard to wrap our minds around what happened. Friends and family want closure as well as all of those here. After all is said and done, this was a tragedy that boggles the mind. MOO>>We'll never have a definitive answer, but I respectfully have to disagree with your take . LE will eventually reach a conclusion based on exclusion ( lightening....toxic algae...foul play...toxic gas...mountain lions). That only leaves ONE cause remaining.

 

[WillieMac]

Another thing I want to state, I was in Mariposa when this happened. People canoed, rafted, hiked, walked, performed outdoor tasks and NO one else died, certainly not entire family’s. Kids played in the river, dogs played in the river, NO one else even became sick. Idk what happened but in my heart, temperatures had nothing to do with the demise of Gerrish-Chung, baby and dog. It simply does not happen this way. I met them casually at social events and imo, they seemed lovely. It’s really too sad to think what actually occurred. The length of time the toxicology analysis is taking is revealing, I think. Moo all of my post is Moo.

Thank you for tour thoughts and input here! I am curious though about the stark differences between the Mariposa river area that you describe and the trails the Gerrish family was on. You describe an area that seemed to be teeming with many family and pet visitors, while the hiking trails seem to have been completely barren of hikers that weekend. Was the temperature at the river you were at in that same range of over 100F? Or do you think that the temp on the hiking trail really wasn't as hot as has been reporter? Or could some other factor such as topology, available shade, access to the water, and/or ease of accessibility to the general area (including elevation change of the trail) be drastically different and caused there to be many less visitor to the hiking trails? Or do you think that perhaps there really were more hikers on the trails that the Gerrish family was on, but for some other unknown reason their bodies went unnoticed for multiple days? Or perhaps that they really weren't deceased on that trail for as long as everyone has assumed they were? Forgive me if I ask too many questions. I do appreciate having another local sharing their point of view. And because of that I may be over anxious to understand what's led you to form the opinions you have! Thanks in advance for any further insights you might be able to share with us!!

 

[ItalyReader]

Another thing I want to state, I was in Mariposa when this happened. People canoed, rafted, hiked, walked, performed outdoor tasks and NO one else died, certainly not entire family’s. Kids played in the river, dogs played in the river, NO one else even became sick. Idk what happened but in my heart, temperatures had nothing to do with the demise of Gerrish-Chung, baby and dog. It simply does not happen this way. I met them casually at social events and imo, they seemed lovely. It’s really too sad to think what actually occurred. The length of time the toxicology analysis is taking is revealing, I think. Moo all of my post is Moo.

I am an active person but definitely not an experienced hiker. We walk regularly on what at best can be described only as city hikes (wild cliff and hill areas just outside our town), for perhaps an hour a few times a week. All this to clearly state I’m no expert in hiking per se.

For the last month, due to the Gerrish-Chung case, I have paid a lot of attention to how much I need to be in the shade on these walks, even partially, and how uncomfortable or even nauseated I am walking in the sun. Especially on climbs. And the temperatures here are much lower than Mariposa, in the 80s, during the morning or late afternoon hours when we walk.

No one else was out there with the GC family in that location and in those temperatures or conditions. Probably because it was uncomfortable and dangerous, as many have stated here, also MOO.

I imagine the people who *didn’t* die from rafting/biking/hiking/outdoors that day chose different hours, conditions, times and locations. Again MOO.

But maybe there were indeed other people who performed similar hikes that day? I have read every post on this thread, including the now-deleted ones (!), and there was a post of a video of hikers in Yosemite to show storm activity. But it seemed farther away and much later in the day.

Does anyone know of anyone who on that day and during those hours of the day, in that area, who did a similar hike with no shade for that length of time/effort/altitude change?

It is mind boggling to say the least, and I am sure especially for someone like you who loves that area and has a home there, there is an even stronger desire to understand what happened.

Respectfully, ItalyReader

 

[GatorFL]

At what point would a FOIA request be appropriate? (Freedom of information act)
After 12 weeks from latest LE update?

Records requests vary by state; you can bet you're not getting any records from an open and active investigation.

 

[moonriverfarm]

@PerplexedPatty , what do you think happened?