CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[PerplexedPatty]

The only thing I can add to this question, which also haunts me, is IIRC, LE deemed the recovery scene a Hazmat situation, for reasons we do not know. I think I opined a while back that perhaps they saw signs of vomit from one or more of the family members. But something visible likely triggered a Hazmat reaction. And to prepare for that takes time, including special equipment, clothing, and perhaps personnel. That may not have contributed to the delay in recovering the bodies, but it comes to mind.

Well any vomit might have been dried up and releasing bodily fluids is normal in death.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

I remember reading earlier on the thread that heat stroke is often a determination of elimination -- I forget the correct phrase but basically meaning it can't be determined except after everything else has been eliminated.

To me that says that no matter what was affirmatively found in the autopsies, it wasn't conclusive, and now there will most likely (barring some bombshell) be no definitive COD until some point in the future when they declare everything else ruled out and therefore heat stroke becomes the COD.

MOO

I’ve posted some links with info pertaining to HS and the forensics involved.
I think some of the best pathologists in the country are working these deaths as well as corroborating with pathologists globally and if HS is CoD they would have known much sooner. Jmo

 

[Recidivist]

It's easy to second guess SAR....hindsight is always 20/20. Just MOO

I'm not second guessing, just wondering why this family couldn't be seen on the trail within 5 hours of sunrise. Perhaps they were found much sooner and it wasn't reported officially until later.

 

[Recidivist]

It's easy to second guess SAR....hindsight is always 20/20. Just MOO

oops

 

[NSamuelle]

Excerpt from SF Chronicle, for clarification regarding SAR operations:

“At 3:20 a.m., the sheriff’s office reserved a search helicopter for daybreak. They called in a second search team that began winding down the switchbacks that complete the loop back up to the Forest Service gate. This section of the Hites Cove Trail makes a loop, with the halfway point the south fork of the Merced River.

About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese said they believe the family was returning to their truck.

A cell phone was in Gerrish’s pocket. There is little to no cell coverage on that section of trail. Investigators are trying to determine if the phone saved any failed text message drafts, attempted calls or photos, along with GPS location data, Briese said.”

It’s really unfortunate that they couldn’t be removed until Wednesday morning, delaying the autopsy by an additional 24 hours (“Two deputies slept near the family that night to ensure that no one tampered with the scene. The family was airlifted off the trail the next morning by a CHP helicopter.”).

'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[PerplexedPatty]

I’d love to know more about the dog. If he did not die immediately, he would have dug and possibly tugged on his rope trying to get free, imo. He was mixed working breeds and they are quite resourceful. I think he would have gnawed at his rope, trying to get free and not simply given up.

Heat stroke is at the bottom of my list. Actually, it never made my list of potential CoD.

moo

 

[rahod1]

SAR should be commended given the facts. I get the impression that some here think they could have done a better job? I so, I would like to how? In any event, it's apparent that SAR could not have saved the family.

 

[rahod1]

Heat stroke is at the bottom of my list. Actually, it never made my list of potential CoD.

moo

What's at the TOP??

 

[HannahJJJ]

I’d love to know more about the dog. If he did not die immediately, he would have dug and possibly tugged on his rope trying to get free, imo. He was mixed working breeds and they are quite resourceful. I think he would have gnawed at his rope, trying to get free and not simply given up.

Heat stroke is at the bottom of my list. Actually, it never made my list of potential CoD.

moo

it's at the bottom of my list, too. in fact, i could never really get to accidental like HS or toxic algae as possibilities because i couldn't get passed what seemed to me to be so very strange...that is, taking a delicate little toddler girl and thick-furred second baby into that environment. i would always pretty much stop right there when thinking about this most tragic situation. MOO.

 

[Yvettea]

I’ve posted some links with info pertaining to HS and the forensics involved.
I think some of the best pathologists in the country are working these deaths as well as corroborating with pathologists globally and if HS is CoD they would have known much sooner. Jmo

What leads you to the conclusion that ‘some of the best pathologists in the country are working these deaths as well as corroborating with pathologists globally’? I’ve seen nothing that would indicate this or that this case is highly unusual beyond finding an entire family dead with their pet.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

it's at the bottom of my list, too. in fact, i could never really get to accidental like HS or toxic algae as possibilities because i couldn't get passed what seemed to me to be so very strange...that is, taking a delicate little toddler girl and thick-furred second baby into that environment. i would always pretty much stop right there. MOO.

And at any point they could have turned around. But you’re spot on, imo. Ridiculous to think two highly educated, successful adults didn’t keep up with weather, news and so forth. It was hot the day before, they knew what to expect. I think the outcome will stun many.
moo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Process Of Elimination | Definition of Process Of Elimination by Merriam-Webster

Thanks so much. That wasn't quite it though.

What I was going for was the specific term regarding medical diagnosis that can only be done by eliminating what it isn't -- I just googled and found the phrase: Diagnosis of Exclusion

Diagnosis of exclusion - Wikipedia

 

[PerplexedPatty]

What leads you to the conclusion that ‘some of the best pathologists in the country are working these deaths as well as corroborating with pathologists globally’? I’ve seen nothing that would indicate this or that this case is highly unusual beyond finding an entire family dead with their pet.

Well upthread I posted a link with Sheriff B’s comment about the “offers to help” and from past cases, Court TV and voracious reading IMO forensic pathologists constantly share info and confer on cases/findings. Also, in an update by Sheriff B be said labs across the country are running tests. Mariposa certainly doesn’t have the facilities and equipment. The CDC lab (posted up thread) has state of the art equipment and I’m guessing FBI labs do as well.
Frankly, I can’t imagine anyone in forensics not offering to assist or being interested in this case. Moo

 

[rahod1]

And at any point they could have turned around. But you’re spot on, imo. Ridiculous to think two highly educated, successful adults didn’t keep up with weather, news and so forth. It was hot the day before, they knew what to expect. I think the outcome will stun many.
moo

LE has ruled out foul play, because they have no evidence pointing to that.

 

[Yvettea]

Frankly I don’t think people will be stunned to learn that toxins were involved in the deaths. Nothing like that at all IMO.

I think members have tried to weigh what we know and make careful conclusions in line with the rules of this website.

It would be pretty naive MOO to assume toxins couldn’t have played a role.

 

[Yvettea]

it's at the bottom of my list, too. in fact, i would always pretty much stop right there when thinking about this most tragic situation. MOO.

Yes, very difficult to get beyond the tragedy of this.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

LE has ruled out foul play, because they have no evidence pointing to that.

I never mentioned “foul play”

 

[rahod1]

It would be pretty naive MOO to assume toxins couldn’t have played a role.

MOO>> Toxin's played an INDIRECT role in that the warning kept the family from possibly accessing the water to COOL them down. MOO>> They avoided all contact with the water, so it wasn't a cause of death.

 

[HannahJJJ]

LE has ruled out foul play, because they have no evidence pointing to that.

it's my understanding that le ruled out foul play when it comes to gunshot, stabbing, blunt trauma. MOO.

 

[NSamuelle]

[

Well upthread I posted a link with Sheriff B’s comment about the “offers to help” and from past cases, Court TV and voracious reading IMO forensic pathologists constantly share info and confer on cases/findings. Also, in an update by Sheriff B be said labs across the country are running tests. Mariposa certainly doesn’t have the facilities and equipment. The CDC lab (posted up thread) has state of the art equipment and I’m guessing FBI labs do as well.
Frankly, I can’t imagine anyone in forensics not offering to assist or being interested in this case. Moo

Forensic resources are $$$ so it is not surprising that other labs are involved. The sheriff also commented that he had never seen a case like this so I think that has driven a lot of forensic interest. NMR machines can be over $100K, so it’s a great thing that other agencies are involved but also a bit puzzling that no further exclusionary results have been released (I.e., “we have confirmed that it was not XYZ”). They did that early in the investigation and ruled out poisonous gases like CO, but that was weeks ago.