CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[WillieMac]

I think we all interpret things differently based on many factors, including life experiences, careers, etc.
I happen to not be in the “heat stroke” camp. Why? It’d be unheard of for all 4 autopsies to not verify HS as CoD is MOO. I have found nothing conclusively stating the exact route walked, idk if LE is even certain. Any tracks could have been from a prior hike, possibly.

Fair enough. I disagree but we don't need to agree. The statement from LE that they followed the family's tracks down the one trail was enough for me to believe they went down a trail and, once down below, found themselves in a situation where they weren't able to get back up to their car in the heat of the day. And if the dog or the baby were in any type of distress, they may not have felt they could wait it out in the cooler waters of the river. (& maybe they didn't trust the safety of the river water as well.) So that's why I feel they were "trapped" with no cell service, no (timely) escape routes, and what they felt to be no other options that to hike out in the heat.

Going back to your comment about feeling that many may be shocked when a COD or more details eventually come out: Do you have a specific theory that you think may have caused their deaths which hasn't been mentioned here by anyone yet?

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Fair enough. I disagree but we don't need to agree. The statement from LE that they followed the family's tracks down the one trail was enough for me to believe they went down a trail and, once down below, found themselves in a situation where they weren't able to get back up to their car in the heat of the day. And if the dog or the baby were in any type of distress, they may not have felt they could wait it out in the cooler waters of the river. (& maybe they didn't trust the safety of the river water as well.) So that's why I feel they were "trapped" with no cell service, no (timely) escape routes, and what they felt to be no other options that to hike out in the heat.

Going back to your comment about feeling that many may be shocked when a COD or more details eventually come out: Do you have a specific theory that you think may have caused their deaths which hasn't been mentioned here by anyone yet?

Heat is not on my short list. Later, I’m going to read every statement from LE again, maybe I missed something.
I firmly believe labs that offered their services pushed all tests to the front of the line and immediately ruled out environmental things that would endanger the community.

Data from phones would not be particularly helpful in heat related deaths, imo. ETA: I doubt LE wanted to verify if either adult checked weather forecasts.

Moo

 

[WillieMac]

Heat is not on my short list. Later, I’m going to read every statement from LE again, maybe I missed something.
I firmly believe labs that offered their services pushed all tests to the front of the line and immediately ruled out environmental things that would endanger the community.

Data from phones would not be particularly helpful in heat related deaths, imo. ETA: I doubt LE wanted to verify if either adult checked weather forecasts.

Moo

I'm curious what theories may actually be in your short list if you're ever inclined to share with us.

As to the them checking the weather reports, I'm not sure if we've heard anything to that point but (MOO) I feel like they'd have been aware of the concern with the heat and possibly thought they'd be done with their hike before it got too hot for them - but something unfortunately slowed them down or delayed their return. MOO

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Iirc, the necropsy on the canine failed to yield results. I found this quite interesting

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ogical_Findings_in_Dogs_with_Fatal_Heatstroke

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Iirc, the necropsy on the canine failed to yield results. I found this quite interesting

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ogical_Findings_in_Dogs_with_Fatal_Heatstroke

The results of the necropsy have not been reported.

 

[Parsnip]

@PerplexedPatty , I’m curious as to whether you’ve read the other three threads on this case. In case you haven’t, you might be surprised to learn how many theories and scenarios have been batted around here. We are an intellectually curious bunch! If I am reading the tone of your posts correctly, you seem to be suggesting that you have a new idea. Am I right about that?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Actually, it would likely be the first time. The Florida journalist seems to have sourced a report based on erroneous lab results. Anatoxin-@Speculaytor's original post if you want more details about why this is.

I’m a medical lab tech, so I’m limited in understanding the details in the studies you linked. I haven’t found a MSM source that says the teen’s official cause of death was reviewed and overturned.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

The results of the necropsy have not been reported.

The family’s autopsies and a necropsy on their dog, Oksi, were inconclusive, CNN reported.

Toxicology reports remain pending Wednesday, a Mariposa County sheriff’s spokeswoman told The Post.

CA trail where family found dead closed due to 'unknown hazards'

 

[PerplexedPatty]

The results of the necropsy have not been reported.

I would not have made my post without widely reported statements regarding the autopsy/necropsy. My findings indicate the canine’s postmortem exam revealed no CoD and samples for him advanced to the “toxicology” stage of analysis. Moo based on MSM
Autopsies on Thursday did not give investigators many other clues into the deaths, but forthcoming toxicology reports for the family as well as their dog could reveal what killed them.
California authorities relying on dog's autopsy, other forensics for answers in family's mysterious deaths

 

[lotus777]

Heat is not on my short list. Later, I’m going to read every statement from LE again, maybe I missed something.
I firmly believe labs that offered their services pushed all tests to the front of the line and immediately ruled out environmental things that would endanger the community.

Data from phones would not be particularly helpful in heat related deaths, imo. ETA: I doubt LE wanted to verify if either adult checked weather forecasts.

Moo

But they didn't rule out environmental factors...the trail was closed due to "unknown hazards." AFAIK they have not reversed that statement.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The family’s autopsies and a necropsy on their dog, Oksi, were inconclusive, CNN reported.

Toxicology reports remain pending Wednesday, a Mariposa County sheriff’s spokeswoman told The Post.

CA trail where family found dead closed due to 'unknown hazards'

Pending toxicology, so no final report.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I would not have made my post without widely reported statements regarding the autopsy/necropsy. My findings indicate the canine’s postmortem exam revealed no CoD and samples for him advanced to the “toxicology” stage of analysis. Moo based on MSM
Autopsies on Thursday did not give investigators many other clues into the deaths, but forthcoming toxicology reports for the family as well as their dog could reveal what killed them.
California authorities relying on dog's autopsy, other forensics for answers in family's mysterious deaths

Toxicology is a routine part of autopsies, from my experience and understanding. The initial autopsies may not have found a cause of death, but ‘pending toxicology results’ means the cause of death for all has not yet been determined.

We don’t know what the initial autopsy results were or whether there were abnormal findings, imo. We only know a COD wasn’t established and results are pending. My view only.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

In my memory, trail runner Philip Kreycik's death by heat exposure was concluded by autopsy and most importantly, by data on his watch. Without the watch, heat exposure could not have been ruled definitively. (His body was in the elements two weeks, not two days.) I agree with @Parsnip that if someone is really interested in this case, they will at least scan the other threads, where every conceivable theory has been debated. If heat is not on your shortlist, @PerplexedPatty, will you detail why? In past threads, we had knowledgeable members explain why heat exposure -- without corroborating evidence-- can rarely, if ever, be established beyond doubt. In this case, there are no witnesses and no means of supporting evidence, especially if the FBI cannot or will not examine Jon's phone.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Toxicology is a routine part of autopsies, from my experience and understanding. The initial autopsies may not have found a cause of death, but ‘pending toxicology results’ means the cause of death for all has not yet been determined.

We don’t know what the initial autopsy results were or whether there were abnormal findings, imo. We only know a COD wasn’t established and results are pending. My view only.

yes and I’ve posted many informative links explaining qualitative and quantitative postmortem toxicology exams.

 

[RedHaus]

it's my understanding that le ruled out foul play when it comes to gunshot, stabbing, blunt trauma. MOO.

Yes, and as far as I know, unless anyone has newer information than early LE statements, this case is classified as a "Homicide" by the Mariposa SO. See my earlier post.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

But they didn't rule out environmental factors...the trail was closed due to "unknown hazards." AFAIK they have not reversed that statement.

I assume ALL testing on blooms, water, algae took place STAT to prevent other mass casualties in the area, as well as curtailing any risks to livestock. Moo

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article254080593.html


A state map of harmful algae blooms across California was updated Wednesday afternoon with results from samples taken Aug. 19 on the south fork of the Merced River, north of Jerseydale.

Despite the presence there of anatoxin-a, the State Water Board said it’s continuing to recommend a caution advisory in that location, near where the family was found dead, which is two tiers below the state’s most serious danger advisory.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

In my memory, trail runner Philip Kreycik's death by heat exposure was concluded by autopsy and most importantly, by data on his watch. Without the watch, heat exposure could not have been ruled definitively. (His body was in the elements two weeks, not two days.) I agree with @Parsnip that if someone is really interested in this case, they will at least scan the other threads, where every conceivable theory has been debated. If heat is not on your shortlist, @PerplexedPatty, will you detail why? In past threads, we had knowledgeable members explain why heat exposure -- without corroborating evidence-- can rarely, if ever, be established beyond doubt. In this case, there are no witnesses and no means of supporting evidence, especially if the FBI cannot or will not examine Jon's phone.

Just to clarify, they started hike early on Sunday and were not removed from the trail until Wednesday (found on Tuesday) so the time in the elements was 72+ hours, not 48. MOO. And in high temps and direct sun.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

It really is baffling, to say the least, as well as tragic. Until we get CoD I suppose many will wonder why the adults chose to hike in the cruel weather.

Briese described the family as ‘very family oriented’ and said that ‘They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike.’
Investigators hope phones of family found dead on hiking trail might solve 'baffling' mystery - California News Times

 

[Lexiintoronto]

yes and I’ve posted many informative links explaining qualitative and quantitative postmortem toxicology exams.

I did read your posts and links and found them informative and interesting.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

It’s curious that Sheriff B declines to reveal the “agents” being tested in tox’ reports. Imo ONLY he would be eager to mention environmental toxins. Moo