wfgodot
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Listed in the show's credits as having been Tammy Windsor -- story here.
CA CA - Karyn Kupcinet, 22, West Hollywood, 28 Nov 1963
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NY NY - Petros Krommidas, 29, Long Beach, 23 Apr 2025
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mysterymike
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Thanks for clearing this up. I always did think the actress didn't look like Karyn. Does The Andy Griffith Show community know this too?
wfgodot
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I assume TAGS fans are well aware. The question here, though, is why did Penn Jones identify the 22 November caller as Karyn.
mysterymike
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I don't know why, there could be alot of reasons why he did that. But I'm with Post #59, I tend to believe it was drinking/drugs and maybe a freak accident, and not a murder. That is just my opinion from what I have read so far.
Bumping case up. November will mark the 55 year anniversary of Karyn Kupcinet's death.
Two nights ago, I saw on TV "The Little Shop of Horrors" movie from 1960. I had seen it many years before and enjoyed seeing it again. One of the actors in that movie was billed as "Tammy Windsor" who played a high school girl who wanted to buy flowers for a school float. She (and her friend) are fascinating with a hybrid Man eating plant called Audrey II, and they come back to the shop each day to view her.
That actress looks very much like the photos posted of Karyn Kupcinet.
Two nights ago, I saw on TV "The Little Shop of Horrors" movie from 1960. I had seen it many years before and enjoyed seeing it again. One of the actors in that movie was billed as "Tammy Windsor" who played a high school girl who wanted to buy flowers for a school float. She (and her friend) are fascinating with a hybrid Man eating plant called Audrey II, and they come back to the shop each day to view her.
That actress looks very much like the photos posted of Karyn Kupcinet.
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Karyn Kupcinet was born on March 6, 1941 in Chicago, Illinois, USA as Roberta Lynn Kupcinet.
Born: March 6, 1941
Died: November 28, 1963 (age 22)
At the below link, you can view the 1960 classic (original) Little Shop of Horrors in which Karyn appears several times in the role of a student wishing to buy flowers for a Rose Bowl parade float. Also seen in the movie is Jack Nicholson in one of his earliest roles.
Link:
11 Bloodthirsty Facts About <em>Little Shop of Horrors</em>
Link:
11 Bloodthirsty Facts About <em>Little Shop of Horrors</em>
Dead in the Wake of the Kennedy Assassination
If conspiracists are right about there being a "cleanup squad" that went around killing off assassination witnesses, the first person they got was actress Karyn Kupcinet .
As Penn Jones, Jr. tells it in Forgive My Grief II:
A few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed.
Two days after the assassination, Miss Kupcinet was found murdered in her apartment. The case has never been solved.
There was an Associated Press dispatch printed in the Chicago Daily News of November 23, 1963, originating from Oxnard, California, which told approximately the same story as we have on Miss Kupcinet. The story read:
A telephone company executive said that 20 minutes before President Kennedy was assassinated a woman caller was overheard whispering:
"The President is going to be killed."
Ray Sheehan, manager of the Oxnard division of General Telephone Co., said the caller "stumbled into our operator's circuits," perhaps by misdialing.
Sheehan said the woman "seemed to be a little bit disturbed." Besides predicting the President's death, he said, she "mumbled several incoherent things."
Sheehan said there was no way to trace the call. All he could say was that it originated in the Oxnard-Camarillo area, some 50 miles north of Los Angeles.
Karyn Kupcinet was indeed murdered in her West Hollywood apartment, although not two days after the assassination (as Jones asserted), but almost a week later...
LINK:
mcadams.posc.mu.edu/kupcinet.htm
If conspiracists are right about there being a "cleanup squad" that went around killing off assassination witnesses, the first person they got was actress Karyn Kupcinet .
As Penn Jones, Jr. tells it in Forgive My Grief II:
A few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed.
Two days after the assassination, Miss Kupcinet was found murdered in her apartment. The case has never been solved.
There was an Associated Press dispatch printed in the Chicago Daily News of November 23, 1963, originating from Oxnard, California, which told approximately the same story as we have on Miss Kupcinet. The story read:
A telephone company executive said that 20 minutes before President Kennedy was assassinated a woman caller was overheard whispering:
"The President is going to be killed."
Ray Sheehan, manager of the Oxnard division of General Telephone Co., said the caller "stumbled into our operator's circuits," perhaps by misdialing.
Sheehan said the woman "seemed to be a little bit disturbed." Besides predicting the President's death, he said, she "mumbled several incoherent things."
Sheehan said there was no way to trace the call. All he could say was that it originated in the Oxnard-Camarillo area, some 50 miles north of Los Angeles.
Karyn Kupcinet was indeed murdered in her West Hollywood apartment, although not two days after the assassination (as Jones asserted), but almost a week later...
LINK:
mcadams.posc.mu.edu/kupcinet.htm
2014 book on the subject:
Karyn Kupcinet Strangled Hollywood Beauty
by Robert Grey Reynolds
Overview
Karyn Kupcinet's murder is still unsolved in 2014. She was strangled in the early morning hours of November 28, 1963. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy occurred only days before. Karyn was a popular guest on numerous 1960s television shows. Her final appearance was on Perry Mason.
My e-book looks at the evidence gathered by West Hollywood detectives until the investigation ended in 1966. I have used contemporary newspaper articles on the crime together with research I have done myself on the Kupcinet family heritage. Karyn was the daughter of well known Chicago Sun Times' columnist Irv Kupcinet. Born in Chicago, Karyn left for Hollywood after high school.
I hope that readers of my work will be able to form at least a rough idea of who murdered Karyn Kupcinet. 400 persons from her network of friends and associates were interviewed by police officials in the days and months after her death. Perhaps her killer was not amongst these individuals?
Kupcinet's apartment was only a block from the Sunset Strip on Sunset Boulevard. I included detailed descriptions of the crime scene including a description of the state of Kupcinet's corpse and who might have been the last to see her and talk with her on the telephone.
Karyn Kupcinet Strangled Hollywood Beauty
by Robert Grey Reynolds
Overview
Karyn Kupcinet's murder is still unsolved in 2014. She was strangled in the early morning hours of November 28, 1963. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy occurred only days before. Karyn was a popular guest on numerous 1960s television shows. Her final appearance was on Perry Mason.
My e-book looks at the evidence gathered by West Hollywood detectives until the investigation ended in 1966. I have used contemporary newspaper articles on the crime together with research I have done myself on the Kupcinet family heritage. Karyn was the daughter of well known Chicago Sun Times' columnist Irv Kupcinet. Born in Chicago, Karyn left for Hollywood after high school.
I hope that readers of my work will be able to form at least a rough idea of who murdered Karyn Kupcinet. 400 persons from her network of friends and associates were interviewed by police officials in the days and months after her death. Perhaps her killer was not amongst these individuals?
Kupcinet's apartment was only a block from the Sunset Strip on Sunset Boulevard. I included detailed descriptions of the crime scene including a description of the state of Kupcinet's corpse and who might have been the last to see her and talk with her on the telephone.
Karyn Kupcinet
Karyn “Cookie” Kupcinet
Birth 6 Mar 1941
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, USA
Death 28 Nov 1963 (aged 22)
West Hollywood, Los Angeles County, California, USA
Burial
Memorial Park Cemetery and Crematorium
Skokie, Cook County, Illinois, USA
LINK:
Karyn “Cookie” Kupcinet (1941-1963) - Find A...
[URL='https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=dugg4Ria&id=FDC9B6A73791585889DC8331E5F3DA3A0791DD8C&thid=OIP.dugg4RiaadVqyqBe6AIGTgHaJK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.gettyimages.com%2fphotos%2factress-karyn-kupcinet-image-dated-november-14-1961-picture-id482286038&exph=1024&expw=828&q=karyn+kupcinet&simid=608010438867485366&selectedIndex=128']- Karyn Kupcinet, strangled 28 November 1963
Today, I was looking through some original newspapers which came out in the days following Kennedy's assassination. The first one in that collection was a Washington Post issue printed in the early morning of Saturday, 23 November 1963. The headlines reported that the President had been killed, and that Johnson had been sworn in as the new President. Almost all other stories had to do with the assassination and related subjects.
On the last page of the A section of that paper, was the story about the "mystery call" in which a phone operator in California overheard a woman trying to continue dialing after her call had gone through. A supervisor was notified and she overheard the woman on the line whisper that the President was going to die. This was at 1:10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time (EST) on Friday, 22 November 1963 (the day of the assassination). Kennedy was shot about 15 minutes later, at approximately 1:25 p.m. EST. The call was made from the Oxnard-Camarillo, California area, but could not be traced any further. The call was reported to law enforcement, but after the assassination took place. So this story was one which was reported very early on, right along with the initial news of the assassination.
In another Washington Post story on 2 December 1963, Karyn Kupcinet's death was reported on page 3, along with her picture. The story came from an Associated Press (AP) feed dated 1 December, and it stated clearly that Karyn had been strangled to death according to the autopsy. It also stated that she had been dead for 3 days by the time she was found in her Hollywood, California apartment. Police referred to her murderer having a "3 day head start" on them. It was clearly being investigated as a homicide.
There was no connection reported between Karyn Kupcinet and the "Mystery phone call" mentioned in those news reports. It was only later when author Penn Jones connected the two events in a sensational, and somewhat distorted manner. That story was soon picked up and repeated by others over the years.
On the last page of the A section of that paper, was the story about the "mystery call" in which a phone operator in California overheard a woman trying to continue dialing after her call had gone through. A supervisor was notified and she overheard the woman on the line whisper that the President was going to die. This was at 1:10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time (EST) on Friday, 22 November 1963 (the day of the assassination). Kennedy was shot about 15 minutes later, at approximately 1:25 p.m. EST. The call was made from the Oxnard-Camarillo, California area, but could not be traced any further. The call was reported to law enforcement, but after the assassination took place. So this story was one which was reported very early on, right along with the initial news of the assassination.
In another Washington Post story on 2 December 1963, Karyn Kupcinet's death was reported on page 3, along with her picture. The story came from an Associated Press (AP) feed dated 1 December, and it stated clearly that Karyn had been strangled to death according to the autopsy. It also stated that she had been dead for 3 days by the time she was found in her Hollywood, California apartment. Police referred to her murderer having a "3 day head start" on them. It was clearly being investigated as a homicide.
There was no connection reported between Karyn Kupcinet and the "Mystery phone call" mentioned in those news reports. It was only later when author Penn Jones connected the two events in a sensational, and somewhat distorted manner. That story was soon picked up and repeated by others over the years.
Last edited:
LINK:
Karyn Kupcinet -- Supposedly Mysterious JFK Assassination-Related Death
TaffyCinders
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Greetings all. I know this thread is fairly inactive, but I find Karyn’s case fascinating and had to comment. I’ve been reading about this case on and off for the last 20+(!) years. I learned of Karyn’s story in 1999 or 2000 when E! ran True Hollywood Story episode of her life and death. (What I wouldn’t give to see that episode again!).
Even after all these years, I still can’t figure out what happened to Karyn. I’ve never bought into the idea that her death was connected to the JFK assassination. Most of the “mysterious” deaths connected to the assassination aren’t mysterious at all. Many occurred years after JFK’s death, some even 20 years later. If that’s how slow the mob (or whomever) works, it’s amazing that they managed to kill JFK while he was still in office.
One point of contention - the Tammy Windsor thing. Karyn never went by the name Tammy Windsor. The only name change she made was from her birth name Roberta to Karyn, likely because alliterative names were popular among celebrities. I don’t think she had any interest in changing her last name. After all, it’s a unique last name and her father had clout that she seemingly didn’t mind benefiting from. I know the source of the Tammy Windsor claim because I witnessed it first hand. Years ago, I was an avid Wikipedia editor. Naturally, I edited subjects I was interested in. Karyn was one. Whilst editing/expanding that article, one new editor showed up and, to put it mildly, became a gigantic pain. She fancied herself a “researcher” and all around Karyn Kupcinet expert when she is neither. It was a battle to keep her opinions and shoddy research out of the article. Her behavior eventually resulted in her being permanently banned from Wikipedia. Incredibly long story short, this person decided (before they were banned) that Karyn Kupcinet was Tammy Windsor. She then contacted IMDb who, without vetting the info, credited Karyn in parts that Tammy Windsor played. That information still stands today. When I refuted this claim (having compared the two through their TV appearances), this person eventually admitted she “messed up” and was “mistaken”. Unfortunately, a mistake on the Internet is a mistake that rarely gets corrected.
A cursory check of the programs that Tammy Windsor appeared in compared to the parts Karyn appeared in make it crystal clear that they were two different women. One of the easiest ways to check this out is to look up The Donna Reed Show which is streaming on various platforms for free. Karyn appears in the Season 3 episode “Mary’s Little Lambs” as “Jeannie”. She has one line about her baby brother being a pest (coincidentally, the baby brother was played by Bobby Buntrock - “Sport” on Hazel - who also died tragically young). This was one of Karyn’s first TV appearances and it is obvious that she filmed that episode before she underwent rhinoplasty (Karyn reportedly underwent several procedures). There are a few photos online of Karyn before the procedure for comparison. Compare pre or post surgery Karyn to Tammy Windsor in one of her few roles (The Andy Griffith Show episode is readily available) - while their coloring is similar, they do not look alike. This is even evident in the Little Shop of Horrors screen grab posted above.
I’ve no idea what happened to Tammy Windsor but her “disappearing” after 1961 doesn’t prove she was Karyn. Conventional wisdom would suggest something far more likely - Windsor, a bit actress at best - quit acting because it wasn’t lucrative enough or (typical for the era) she quit after she married and had children. Bottom line: Tammy Windsor and Karyn Kupcinet are/were two entirely different people.
Even after all these years, I still can’t figure out what happened to Karyn. I’ve never bought into the idea that her death was connected to the JFK assassination. Most of the “mysterious” deaths connected to the assassination aren’t mysterious at all. Many occurred years after JFK’s death, some even 20 years later. If that’s how slow the mob (or whomever) works, it’s amazing that they managed to kill JFK while he was still in office.
One point of contention - the Tammy Windsor thing. Karyn never went by the name Tammy Windsor. The only name change she made was from her birth name Roberta to Karyn, likely because alliterative names were popular among celebrities. I don’t think she had any interest in changing her last name. After all, it’s a unique last name and her father had clout that she seemingly didn’t mind benefiting from. I know the source of the Tammy Windsor claim because I witnessed it first hand. Years ago, I was an avid Wikipedia editor. Naturally, I edited subjects I was interested in. Karyn was one. Whilst editing/expanding that article, one new editor showed up and, to put it mildly, became a gigantic pain. She fancied herself a “researcher” and all around Karyn Kupcinet expert when she is neither. It was a battle to keep her opinions and shoddy research out of the article. Her behavior eventually resulted in her being permanently banned from Wikipedia. Incredibly long story short, this person decided (before they were banned) that Karyn Kupcinet was Tammy Windsor. She then contacted IMDb who, without vetting the info, credited Karyn in parts that Tammy Windsor played. That information still stands today. When I refuted this claim (having compared the two through their TV appearances), this person eventually admitted she “messed up” and was “mistaken”. Unfortunately, a mistake on the Internet is a mistake that rarely gets corrected.
A cursory check of the programs that Tammy Windsor appeared in compared to the parts Karyn appeared in make it crystal clear that they were two different women. One of the easiest ways to check this out is to look up The Donna Reed Show which is streaming on various platforms for free. Karyn appears in the Season 3 episode “Mary’s Little Lambs” as “Jeannie”. She has one line about her baby brother being a pest (coincidentally, the baby brother was played by Bobby Buntrock - “Sport” on Hazel - who also died tragically young). This was one of Karyn’s first TV appearances and it is obvious that she filmed that episode before she underwent rhinoplasty (Karyn reportedly underwent several procedures). There are a few photos online of Karyn before the procedure for comparison. Compare pre or post surgery Karyn to Tammy Windsor in one of her few roles (The Andy Griffith Show episode is readily available) - while their coloring is similar, they do not look alike. This is even evident in the Little Shop of Horrors screen grab posted above.
I’ve no idea what happened to Tammy Windsor but her “disappearing” after 1961 doesn’t prove she was Karyn. Conventional wisdom would suggest something far more likely - Windsor, a bit actress at best - quit acting because it wasn’t lucrative enough or (typical for the era) she quit after she married and had children. Bottom line: Tammy Windsor and Karyn Kupcinet are/were two entirely different people.
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TaffyCinders,
Welcome to Websleuths and thank you for your post on Karyn Kupcinet/Tammy Windsor.
It seems that the two names are connected together by the many internet articles and stories - although not much is ever said of how or why the two names are connected. Many actors changed their names for various reasons - sometimes starting out with one name and then changing it after a few roles.
Here are a few photos that I could find for comparison.
Tammy Windsor (right) in role of Hannah Carter on the Andy Griffith Show
Tammy Windsor as seen on Andy Griffith Show
--------------------------------------------
Karyn Kupcinet
Karyn Kupcinet as seen (and credited) on the Perry Mason TV show
Welcome to Websleuths and thank you for your post on Karyn Kupcinet/Tammy Windsor.
It seems that the two names are connected together by the many internet articles and stories - although not much is ever said of how or why the two names are connected. Many actors changed their names for various reasons - sometimes starting out with one name and then changing it after a few roles.
Here are a few photos that I could find for comparison.
Tammy Windsor (right) in role of Hannah Carter on the Andy Griffith Show
Tammy Windsor as seen on Andy Griffith Show
--------------------------------------------
Karyn Kupcinet
Karyn Kupcinet as seen (and credited) on the Perry Mason TV show
Karyn Kupcinet's death remains a mystery in many ways. The merging of her identity with that of "Tammy Windsor", certainly adds to the mystique.
From the time that she was first included at the very top of the list of "mysterious deaths" which followed the Kennedy assassination, her name has continued to appear in various other accounts which attempt to connect other cases.
From the time that she was first included at the very top of the list of "mysterious deaths" which followed the Kennedy assassination, her name has continued to appear in various other accounts which attempt to connect other cases.
Karyn Kupcinet, photo 1963
Karyn “Cookie” Kupcinet
ORIGINAL NAME Roberta Lynn KupcinetBIRTH 6 Mar 1941, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, USA
DEATH 28 Nov 1963 (aged 22), West Hollywood, Los Angeles County, California, USA
BURIAL Memorial Park Cemetery Skokie, Cook County, Illinois, USA
PLOT Anshe Emet Section A, Lot 109
Actress. She was murdered the week after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and many Kennedy Conspiracy theorists believe that she had been killed to silence her. Her murder has never been solved.
Born in Chicago, Illinois, she was the daughter of Chicago "Sun Times" columnist Irv Kupcinet. She began her acting career playing summer stock on stage. Actor-Producer Jerry Lewis discovered her, and encouraged her to come to Hollywood. She obtained small bit roles on television, including "Hawaiian Eye" and "Perry Mason", and in 1961, won the role of 'Carol' on the "Gertrude Berg Show". She appeared in two movies, "The Ladies Man" (1961), with Jerry Lewis and in a 1960 movie called "The Little Shop of Horrors", under the name of Tammy Windsor.
Her nude body was found on Saturday, November 30, 1963 on the couch in her West Hollywood, California, apartment, and the coroner determined she had been strangled, and had been dead about three days. Her body was found on its side on the couch, the apartment door was unlocked, and the television set was on. A bowl of cigarettes, a coffee pot, and a lamp had been knocked over to the floor. While working in Hollywood, she took the diet pill, desoxyn, and police estimate that she had taken 80 of the pills in the five days prior to her death.
Conspiracy theorist Penn Jones, in his book "Forgive My Grief" reported that a telephone operator overheard her say "The President is going to be killed" about 20 minutes before Kennedy was shot in Dallas. Jones claimed that Kupcinet was the caller, and that she was killed November 24, not November 28, as the coroner had ruled. Her supposed advanced knowledge of the assassination has never been satisfactorily explained. When her name was listed on a 1992 NBC Today Show broadcast of mysterious deaths associated with the JFK assassination, her father wrote a column blasting those who linked her to the assassination, calling such a connection "an atrocious outrage" and claiming that there was no justification or verification to make such a charge.
In 1971, her parents founded the Karyn Kupcinet International Science School in Chicago, in her honor, and since its founding has graduated a number of scholars and scientists.
LINK:
Karyn “Cookie” Kupcinet (1941-1963) - Find a...
Actress. She was murdered the week after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and many Kennedy Conspiracy theorists believe that she had been killed to silence her. Her murder has never been solved. Born in Chicago, Illinois, she was the daughter of Chicago Sun Times columnist Irv...
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