GUILTY CA - Lana Clarkson, 40, fatally shot, Alhambra, 3 Feb 2003

[lisafremont]

If it comes into evidence that Sara Caplan saw Henry Lee pick up this little piece of evidence and then Henry Lee DOESN'T testify--- what does THAT say to the jury?

 

[lisafremont]

I wonder if Phil is sitting up for this testimony on one of his favorite subjects: guns!!!

 

[panthera]

The witness is holding and describing the GUN to the jury. Colt .38 Cobra. He is wearing latex gloves because there is biological material on it (blood). 7" total length, 2" barrel length.

 

[lisafremont]

Another terrific, knowledgeable credible pros. witness! Do you think LA Co. has finally wised up to the idea that when a celeb/rich person is involved, that they ought to put their very best, most experienced people on a case so that they don't get "Funged" by some smartie pants like Barry Scheck??

 

[Wrinkles]

Howdy All,

Remember yesterday I was picking your brains about broken teeth? I was trying to figure out if there were broken teeth, and if so if they were consistent with a gun being shoved into the mouth, or consistent with the recoil of a gun (I used the word backfire, DOH! Lisa gave me the right word - recoil.

Well, my point was... A person committing suicide would not jam a gun through their teeth and then shoot. The object of a suicide would be quick and painless death, so I don't think it is at all likely someone would jam a gun "through" their teeth OR shoot through their teeth. Could be wrong...but I just don't think it is likely.

AT anyrate... Maybe you all knew it and resolved it in your head, but the penny just dropped for me. I was just listening to the KTLA video from May 29, with Pena (Coroner Disputes Suicide in Phil Spector Murder Trial.) In that video, Pena mentioned that Lana had a large bruise on her tongue that would be consistent with blunt force trauma and not caused by the bullet as it was fired into her mouth. He said, "It is clearly before death, in my opinion."

So...it seems apparent that the gun was jammed into Lana's mouth, and my guess is someone on the way to suicide wouldn't do that.

Oh... Hmmm... Do you suppose the DNA that was mentioned to be on Spector's thangs was brought up to try to make people think that the blunt force trauma to Lana's tongue was due to...ummm...well you know. AND if that is why they brought that up, WHO runs around with a bruise on their tongue from that? Additionally, that is not "blunt force trauma" is it?

I think that a bruise from a gun hitting the tongue would be distinctly different from one made by frolicking (if that could even occur.)

W

 

[JDB]

I wonder if Phil is sitting up for this testimony on one of his favorite subjects: guns!!!

No looks like he is sleeping

 

[panthera]

No looks like he is sleeping

For the past few minutes it does appear he's nodding off.

 

[panthera]

The witness is saying there is absolutely no way this gun fired without having the trigger pulled all the way to the back.

 

[lisafremont]

Making it look deliberate.

 

[panthera]

Definitely deliberate, imo, especially when it was inside her mouth. Not an accidental shooting where two people are wrestling over it and it discharges randomly hitting someone in the head, shoulder, chest, and so forth.

 

[Wrinkles]

Did you guys see my message #98?

W

 

[panthera]

11-1/4 to 11-1/2 lb. double action trigger pull with Lana's two broken & still healing wrists? When she couldn't even grip the steering wheel in her car?

 

[panthera]

Did you guys see my message #98?

W

Yes I read it! the witness is talking about the location of the gun in relation to her mouth right now & there was the presence of gunpowder particles embedded in her palate. Her mouth would be open about 2". The muzzle of the gun would've been in her mouth, inside her teeth.

 

[lisafremont]

I have to be out of the house for the last hour. Sunny, could you give a short summary of the testimony that I will miss?? TIA!

 

[panthera]

I have to be out of the house for the last hour. Sunny, could you give a short summary of the testimony that I will miss?? TIA!

I'll be here. You're leaving at afternoon break time?

 

[Wrinkles]

How many people could pull a trigger that takes that much strength with their hand that close to their mouth AND pointed/aimed at the angle that it would have had to have been to cause the specific damage (I guess I mean the damage made by the trajectory of the bullet.)

Now then, curl your hand around directly in front of your mouth as if you were shooting a gun straight in, pointing to the back of your throat and midpoint to the back of the head... There is very little strength in my trigger finger with my hand held at that angle. However...I could the gun, then hold it up, then push the trigger with my thumb/s? BUT...how stable would my hands be, might I be shaking? Would the bullet go in at a nice straight angle? I think there is more chance that a strong arm, with the hand straight out in front (not curved around), would have more strength and stability.

It would have taken less strength to just put the gun to your temple, you would have more strength with your trigger finger...yes? Committing suicide...least route of resistance, right?

Now then...if the gun was cocked, 4.25 pounds weight to pull the trigger (or push the trigger)...yes?

W

 

[Bee Charmer]

If the defense would stipulate: Former Spector attorney Sara Caplan saw Dr Henry Lee pick up a small white object, flat with a jagged edge, with a tweezer and placed it in a vial and said so under oath" (which the def will never stip to) why not??

Because then that would set the sage for ole henwee to
say that Caplan was mistaken. Nope, not good enough, they need to
have Caplan forced to that stand, if at all possible.

 

[panthera]

How many people could pull a trigger that takes that much strength with their hand that close to their mouth AND pointed/aimed at the angle that it would have had to have been to cause the specific damage (I guess I mean the damage made by the trajectory of the bullet.)

Now then, curl your hand around directly in front of your mouth as if you were shooting a gun straight in, pointing to the back of your throat and midpoint to the back of the head... There is very little strength in my trigger finger with my hand held at that angle. However...I could the gun, then hold it up, then push the trigger with my thumb/s? BUT...how stable would my hands be, might I be shaking? Would the bullet go in at a nice straight angle? I think there is more chance that a strong arm, with the hand straight out in front (not curved around), would have more strength and stability.

It would have taken less strength to just put the gun to your temple, you would have more strength with your trigger finger...yes? Committing suicide...least route of resistance, right?

Now then...if the gun was cocked, 4.25 pounds weight to pull the trigger (or push the trigger)...yes?

W

Just my opinion, but with 22 fractures and 4 surgeries on her wrists, I can't see her pulling the trigger at that angle even if the gun was cocked. Her right arm would be at a weird angle for the amount of pressure she'd have to use. I agree that it would be easier if the gunshot wound were to her temple area.

 

[panthera]

Update on Harriet Ryan's blog ~

Gun specifics

Sheriff's department criminalist James Carroll, a firearms examiner, is explaining the basics of the .38 Special that killed Clarkson. He has the weapon up on the witness stand and is pointing out the trigger and the muzzle. The whole gun is seven inches long, but the barrel is just two inches, which is why it’s called a snub-nosed revolver, he says. The jury, which includes a few gun owners, is really interested. Some of the guys in the back row who take a generally lackadaisical approach to notetaking are scribbling in their little spiral-bounds like Carroll’s giving out tomorrow’s Powerball numbers. Meanwhile, across the courtroom, Spector is asleep again! Defense attorney Roger Rosen notices and whispers in his ear while squeezing his neck.

A few moments later, everyone in court bolts to attention when prosecutor Jackson slams his fist on the lectern to demonstrate just how hard it is to get the gun to fire. Carroll says that the gun was in good working order and that it could not have gone off unless someone pulled the trigger. In single-action mode, he says, the gun requires about four pounds of pull to fire. In double-action mode, that goes up to about 11 pounds of pull.

He allows that in single-action mode, the gun may discharge if a shooter has his finger on the trigger and a second person slaps or strikes his hand.

“Yes,” he said, but “your finger wound have to in one way or another pull the trigger.” -- Harriet Ryan

http://blog.courttv.com/phil_specto...2.html#comments

 

[panthera]

summary of testimony for lisafremont

James Carroll said that there was a rebound lever preventing cocking of the hammer and a hammer block safety to prevent unintentional movement of the hammer into the firing position.

The holsters are 1985 and older. The bullets were stopped manufactured around 1983,

Peoples 123
A series of photos
Colt .38 Cobra in the holster
He recognizes both photos because he has seen them before today. His exemplar in the holster.

Now he is being shown People's #70
Item 50 (from Sheriff's office)
Hunter brand holster
Model 1100
It's built to hold a longer barrel.
Pre 1985

The right side holster (photo) Item 78
Holster that he directed to have photographed.
It was made around the same time of the previous one. All from the same manufacturer and all have the same Ram's horn logo.

People's Exhibit 81
Photo of document
Speer ammo on one side and a bright yellow line that separates
Smith and Wesson +P from the Speer. Left side is Speer Brand ammo

Right side is Smith and Wesson +P

The weight is being discussed.

34 rounds of Speer ammunition found in Spector's house. Same brand, same marketer. He tested the weight. It was the weight of the bullet. 110 gram bullet. Same vendor and same weight.

Right side of diagram now.
Smith and Wesson +P
Several expended cartridge cases.
He explains why.
It was mostly all live ammo when he got it except for one that was in the gun.

That was the "technical" part of his direct testimony.

Then LKB gets up to cross-examine the witness and starts off with a question like does the witness know who fired the gun? and also a little "safety clinic" that someone who had been drinking alcohol and taking drugs shouldn't be handling a gun or it could go off accidentally. She was also remanded by the Judge for being argumentative.

Court is now in recess until Mon. morning at 9:30am with LKB continuing her cross-exam.