CA CA- Los Angeles, WhtMale, 17-25, UP4280, dead on the front steps of an apartment complex, broken tooth, many scars. April 1983.

[cheemsg]

This young man was found dead on the front steps of an apartment complex. His face was recognisable when he was found. No exact PMI given. A woman said she had walked by the spot two hours before he was found and hadn't seen him there.
He was 5'8 and 100 pounds. He had dark hair and brown eyes. He had a broken front tooth and had scars present on his chest, arms and hands.
His clothing is not listed but he apparently carried a yellow lighter, and assorted 'papers' (maybe they mean cigarette papers?) He wore a yellow metal chain.
So sad.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Los Angeles County Medical Examiner-Coroner

 

[iamshadow21]

This young man was found dead on the front steps of an apartment complex. His face was recognisable when he was found. No exact PMI given. A woman said she had walked by the spot two hours before he was found and hadn't seen him there.
He was 5'8 and 100 pounds. He had dark hair and brown eyes. He had a broken front tooth and had scars present on his chest, arms and hands.
His clothing is not listed but he apparently carried a yellow lighter, and assorted 'papers' (maybe they mean cigarette papers?) He wore a yellow metal chain.
So sad.

NAMUS
Los Angeles County Medical Examiner-Coroner

Both links go to LACME.

100lb? Gosh, if I'm doing my conversion to kg right, he must have been emaciated.

 

[cheemsg]

Both links go to LACME.

100lb? Gosh, if I'm doing my conversion to kg right, he must have been emaciated.

Thanks, I fixed it. And yes, idk how accurate the figures are on NamUs sometimes but 5'8 and 100 pounds, jeez. This is all really sad, it reminds me of the Someone in California loves me Jane Doe.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks, I fixed it. And yes, idk how accurate the figures are on NamUs sometimes but 5'8 and 100 pounds, jeez. This is all really sad, it reminds me of the Someone in California loves me Jane Doe.

It was 1983. I wonder if he was HIV+. There were so many deaths from AIDS in California back then. His age range would fit, too. So many were very young. And there were no effective treatments then. Wastage of fat and muscle was one of the very noticeable effects.

 

[cheemsg]

It was 1983. I wonder if he was HIV+. There were so many deaths from AIDS in California back then. His age range would fit, too. So many were very young. And there were no effective treatments then. Wastage of fat and muscle was one of the very noticeable effects.

Now that is an interesting theory. Might well explain how he hasn't been ID'd if his family wouldn't speak to him anymore because of it.

 

[iamshadow21]

Now that is an interesting theory. Might well explain how he hasn't been ID'd if his family wouldn't speak to him anymore because of it.

HIV didn't necessarily mean gay. Especially in the early days, a lot of folks got it from blood transfusions, unsafe sex (hetero), tattoos, and intravenous drug use, too. Read about the history of how long it took them to bother screening blood that was donated if you want to get steaming mad, talk about profits over people.

But if this guy wasn't missed, he probably didn't have close family connections, so gay, trans, or otherwise queer, or drug use would be good things to place your bets on. Given that they recorded his scarring but didn't mention track marks, he probably wasn't using at the time of his death. Even former users have scars; injecting sites tend to abscess, it's nasty.

So IF he was HIV+, it's possible, but not certain, he was gay.

But they didn't develop a test for HIV until 1985, so it would have been a clinical diagnosis, based on symptoms, and wouldn't have necessarily been noted at autopsy, especially as he was unidentified, since they couldn't test for it at the time and they wouldn't have had access to his medical history.

TBH, from what I've read, a lot of people didn't get tested even once it became available because they just assumed they had it and lived their life accordingly. Some people pretended it didn't exist, some spent all their money lavishly assuming they'd be dead soon, and some got angry at the inactivity of government and scientists and became activists. Most didn't live more than ten years, at least before anti-viral therapies came in.

My information comes, not from having HIV myself, but from volunteering at the AIDS Council of NSW in my young adulthood, and reading books about that period of gay history. ACON hands out lots of safe sex and safe injecting stuff at front of house to anyone who comes in. That was my job. Every shift I greeted clients who were queer, or injecting drug users, or sex workers, or others who just needed help or support. I learnt a lot and tried to listen.

 

[cheemsg]

HIV didn't necessarily mean gay. Especially in the early days, a lot of folks got it from blood transfusions, unsafe sex (hetero), tattoos, and intravenous drug use, too. Read about the history of how long it took them to bother screening blood that was donated if you want to get steaming mad, talk about profits over people.

But if this guy wasn't missed, he probably didn't have close family connections, so gay, trans, or otherwise queer, or drug use would be good things to place your bets on. Given that they recorded his scarring but didn't mention track marks, he probably wasn't using at the time of his death. Even former users have scars; injecting sites tend to abscess, it's nasty.

So IF he was HIV+, it's possible, but not certain, he was gay.

But they didn't develop a test for HIV until 1985, so it would have been a clinical diagnosis, based on symptoms, and wouldn't have necessarily been noted at autopsy, especially as he was unidentified, since they couldn't test for it at the time and they wouldn't have had access to his medical history.

TBH, from what I've read, a lot of people didn't get tested even once it became available because they just assumed they had it and lived their life accordingly. Some people pretended it didn't exist, some spent all their money lavishly assuming they'd be dead soon, and some got angry at the inactivity of government and scientists and became activists. Most didn't live more than ten years, at least before anti-viral therapies came in.

My information comes, not from having HIV myself, but from volunteering at the AIDS Council of NSW in my young adulthood, and reading books about that period of gay history. ACON hands out lots of safe sex and safe injecting stuff at front of house to anyone who comes in. That was my job. Every shift I greeted clients who were queer, or injecting drug users, or sex workers, or others who just needed help or support. I learnt a lot and tried to listen.

I mean, the taboo is so strong, I think if a man has HIV/AIDs everyone assumes stuff. And you could get disowned by your family for being a drug addict as much as being gay. I didn't say he was gay, just that I can see a family disowning someone FOR getting a HIV diagnosis.

It's also very likely he didn't get an autopsy considering.Not many unidentified bodies get autopsies.

 

[iamshadow21]

I mean, the taboo is so strong, I think if a man has HIV/AIDs everyone assumes stuff. And you could get disowned by your family for being a drug addict as much as being gay. I didn't say he was gay, just that I can see a family disowning someone FOR getting a HIV diagnosis.

It's also very likely he didn't get an autopsy considering.Not many unidentified bodies get autopsies.

Do they have anything to identify this guy with? Was it LA that cremated all their Does for ages? I'd hope they at least took fingerprints and dental xrays. I know DNA was a few years away in '83.

 

[cheemsg]

Do they have anything to identify this guy with? Was it LA that cremated all their Does for ages? I'd hope they at least took fingerprints and dental xrays. I know DNA was a few years away in '83.

No idea. They do probably have fingerprints as most John Doe from L.A who got identified years later were identified by fingerprints. Robert Secrest was found dead in LA way back in 1976 and was identified this year through fingerprints. So of course there's still hope.

 

[iamshadow21]

No idea. They do probably have fingerprints as most John Doe from L.A who got identified years later were identified by fingerprints. Robert Secrest was found dead in LA way back in 1976 and was identified this year through fingerprints. So of course there's still hope.

Well, that's something.

The other thing, to do with identification, is if that he did have found family and community amongst either queer people or drug users, many of his peers just won't be alive to recognise him. The risks of disease and OD are profound for people with severe addiction, but also, addiction leaves them more vulnerable to violent crime and death at the hands of others, and from accidents (pedestrian-auto, hypothermia, falls, etc).

As for the scale of the loss to the queer community, I'm going to link this, because I think people see big numbers and just zone out, but pictures sometimes convey it better, and I'm going to link to it on snopes, because the toll is actually much much higher than the original picture suggests, because of when it was taken, and how long it's been.

Does a Poignant Photo of Gay Men's Choir Show Devastating Impact of HIV/AIDS?

This is San Fransicso, not LA, but LA, thanks to acting and showbiz, has also had a large queer community for a very long time. We literally lost a generation of queer elders.

 

[Susikatze]

Well, that's something.

The other thing, to do with identification, is if that he did have found family and community amongst either queer people or drug users, many of his peers just won't be alive to recognise him. The risks of disease and OD are profound for people with severe addiction, but also, addiction leaves them more vulnerable to violent crime and death at the hands of others, and from accidents (pedestrian-auto, hypothermia, falls, etc).

As for the scale of the loss to the queer community, I'm going to link this, because I think people see big numbers and just zone out, but pictures sometimes convey it better, and I'm going to link to it on snopes, because the toll is actually much much higher than the original picture suggests, because of when it was taken, and how long it's been.

Does a Poignant Photo of Gay Men's Choir Show Devastating Impact of HIV/AIDS?

This is San Fransicso, not LA, but LA, thanks to acting and showbiz, has also had a large queer community for a very long time. We literally lost a generation of queer elders.

That is heartbreaking. Literally a whole generation lost, an important one that witnessed both eras, oppression and then emancipation.

Referring to our UID, there are plenty of conditions that can lead to emaciation, id even say AIDS is the least likely of those since late stage AIDS comes with secondary infections that lead to emaciation and that were and are normally treated in hospital.
He could have been "just" a substance user, had another blood borne illness such as hepatitis, suffered from a lung condition, alcoholism, poor nutrition, blood cancer... many possibilities.
I hooe he gets his name back. Someone must be missing him

 

[cheemsg]

That is heartbreaking. Literally a whole generation lost, an important one that witnessed both eras, oppression and then emancipation.

Referring to our UID, there are plenty of conditions that can lead to emaciation, id even say AIDS is the least likely of those since late stage AIDS comes with secondary infections that lead to emaciation and that were and are normally treated in hospital.
He could have been "just" a substance user, had another blood borne illness such as hepatitis, suffered from a lung condition, alcoholism, poor nutrition, blood cancer... many possibilities.
I hooe he gets his name back. Someone must be missing him

I mean from the looks of scars/ broken tooth, he was probably a victim of abuse and/or self harm at some point. Whatever went on with him, he obviously had a hard life. He was very young and deserved better, this listing is just so sad.

I'd also like to keep in mind that L.A. County doesn't commonly release cause of death, even after identification. he could have OD'd, he could've been murdered, he could've committed suicide, or died of a sickness. We'll never know.

 

[iamshadow21]

I mean from the looks of scars/ broken tooth, he was probably a victim of abuse and/or self harm at some point. Whatever went on with him, he obviously had a hard life. He was very young and deserved better, this listing is just so sad.

I'd also like to keep in mind that L.A. County doesn't commonly release cause of death, even after identification. he could have OD'd, he could've been murdered, he could've committed suicide, or died of a sickness. We'll never know.

He was carrying a lighter and 'misc. papers' which I assume were rolling papers, not, say, newspapers or letters or something, so, he was likely a smoker. No tobacco found, though.

Does the necklace ring any bells for anyone? I'm trying to visualise it.

 

[cheemsg]

He was carrying a lighter and 'misc. papers' which I assume were rolling papers, not, say, newspapers or letters or something, so, he was likely a smoker. No tobacco found, though.

Does the necklace ring any bells for anyone? I'm trying to visualise it.

The lack of description on this listing is terrible. No clothing is listed, but he probably wasn’t found nude since he had belongings. The man they found in September ‘82 had no clothing listed for a long time so I assumed he was found nude or something, but I checked his page more recently and he had a clothing description.

Hopefully they’ll update the page with more info?

 

[Beccalicious]

Bumping

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Bumping up. Does he have any exclusions? If not, perhaps sadly there are no identifiers? Poor young man.