CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

  • #201
Just stumbled upon this missing person and i see a few facial resemblences. In 4 years a lot could have happened… I thought i would share it, just in case.

BRANDON KEITH ROBBINS

Brandon Keith Robbins – The Charley Project
Wow. To be honest it is the first time that I'm this puzzled by the facial resemblences, especially the chin/mouth/nose area. But one thing that is totally off is his height. Brandon Robbins is 5'11 and John Doe is 6. Also, John Doe looks way hairier but as you said a lot of things can happen in 4 years, considering the fact that men grow up for a longer time than women if I'm correct. Idk if it's possible to grow up so much in 4 years though.
 
  • #202
I googled the 5’11” and 6’00” and that was a difference of only 3cm it said. Was that wrong? Where i live we measure in centimeters… I thought about how many times adult people get measured… where i live that’s almost never… so i thought it might be an estimate?
 
  • #203
I googled the 5’11” and 6’00” and that was a difference of only 3cm it said. Was that wrong? Where i live we measure in centimeters… I thought about how many times adult people get measured… where i live that’s almost never… so i thought it might be an estimate?

It's only a difference of about 12mm - well within a reasonable margin of error.
 
  • #204
It's only a difference of about 12mm - well within a reasonable margin of error.
I googled the 5’11” and 6’00” and that was a difference of only 3cm it said. Was that wrong? Where i live we measure in centimeters… I thought about how many times adult people get measured… where i live that’s almost never… so i thought it might be an estimate?

OH! I'm so bad at calculating heights (I use metric system) when it comes to feet and inches ! You people are right, it's not that big of a difference.

We need to find more informations about Brandon Keith Robbins, if anyone here has done some research regarding his case that'd be a great help. We need more photos of Brandon.
The only thing that is a bit off to me, still, is J0hn Doe's hairiness.
 
  • #205
Just stumbled upon this missing person and i see a few facial resemblences. In 4 years a lot could have happened… I thought i would share it, just in case.

BRANDON KEITH ROBBINS

Brandon Keith Robbins – The Charley Project

I think the possibility of our UID being BKR is fairly remote. The hirsute factor, notwithstanding, I think the circumstances of BKR going missing highly suggests he met with foul play.

Is there a way to check passport records to see if BKR ever requested one? I still think this UID is from a ship. I can't think of any reasons for an American citizen to have Swiss francs on his person protected by a moleskin pouch unless it was to protect the currency from moisture.
 
  • #206
I think the possibility of our UID being BKR is fairly remote. The hirsute factor, notwithstanding, I think the circumstances of BKR going missing highly suggests he met with foul play.

Is there a way to check passport records to see if BKR ever requested one? I still think this UID is from a ship. I can't think of any reasons for an American citizen to have Swiss francs on his person protected by a moleskin pouch unless it was to protect the currency from moisture.

You're right about the fact that the circumstances of BKR disappearance and UID discovery seem to be on two totally different tracks. I think one think that would help is to find other pictures of BKR to compare them to UID, as one picture is not enough to make any assumption. A picture showing a 3/4 profile for example.

About the pouch : it's not a moleskin or leather pouch, it's a"velvet-like" pouch. So, not waterproof.
 
  • #207
I made an error with the metric to imperial conversion. A height of 5'-11" is one inch less than 6'-0" One inch equals 25.4 mm +/-
In any case, very little difference in height, especially with post-mortem changes.
 
  • #208
You're right about the fact that the circumstances of BKR disappearance and UID discovery seem to be on two totally different tracks. I think one think that would help is to find other pictures of BKR to compare them to UID, as one picture is not enough to make any assumption. A picture showing a 3/4 profile for example.

About the pouch : it's not a moleskin or leather pouch, it's a"velvet-like" pouch. So, not waterproof.

The description of it, is exactly what moleskin is. It's been used as a fabric for military uniforms because of its ability to withstand moisture and high winds. It's also used to protect blisters by absorbing moisture. Here's the definition of moleskin:

Moleskin - Wikipedia
 
  • #209
The description of it, is exactly what moleskin is. It's been used as a fabric for military uniforms because of its ability to withstand moisture and high winds. It's also used to protect blisters by absorbing moisture. Here's the definition of moleskin:

Moleskin - Wikipedia
For some reason I thought Moleskin was some kind of fake leather, the way the notebooks of the same name are made. Thanx for the explanation :)
 
  • #210
I think the possibility of our UID being BKR is fairly remote. The hirsute factor, notwithstanding, I think the circumstances of BKR going missing highly suggests he met with foul play.

Is there a way to check passport records to see if BKR ever requested one? I still think this UID is from a ship. I can't think of any reasons for an American citizen to have Swiss francs on his person protected by a moleskin pouch unless it was to protect the currency from moisture.
So to go back to the main point of your post, there's a chance he was from a boat when looking at his jacket. But then also, swiss people used to carry those pouches a lot in the 80's, those would be handmade or sold at festivals/flea markets
 
  • #211
So to go back to the main point of your post, there's a chance he was from a boat when looking at his jacket. But then also, swiss people used to carry those pouches a lot in the 80's, those would be handmade or sold at festivals/flea markets
Thanks for this, @Jella, as I was planning on asking you to expand on your experience with these types of money bags.
You mentioned handmade and that set off the bells that were already ringing in my mind, as I recognize that type of craftsmanship.

As I might have mentioned previously, I met and married a Swiss man in the late ‘80’s. My husband, who would have been the same age as our UID, was a self-described ‘small farmer boy’ who grew up lower middle class on a small farm in the Swiss Jura.

As a youth my husband was determined to break what he felt was his preordained future as a small town fromager and set out to see the world. Amidst his first several years of travel he acquired a unique skillset that allowed him to open a boutique shop in Berkeley CA, which was were we met.

I remember meeting his mother when he took me to what remained of the family farm in Les Ponts-de-Martel. Out of early necessity, my belle-mère was prolific with the needle, creating her family’s clothing, and later she crafted for pleasure. She made many little gifts for her grandchildren, and early on for me she sewed a little velvet and satin jewelry pouch that shares similarities with the one found with Malibu John Doe.

In my final (hopefully) long-winded opus, I want to just pull some threads together to paint a very broad picture of who this Doe might have been, and what could have happened to cause his death. Let me say that 99% of these ideas were brought up much earlier in the thread by other Sleuthers, so I am just building my observations on your insights and other people’s ideas.

In my opinion, and by what supporting evidence I can glean from the photos, the earliest and simplest version of the Doe’s identity and the events leading to his demise holds the most water.

I believe that our UID was a Swiss citizen who came from a relatively modest background. His social class has been deduced from the clothing he was wearing, jeans and T-shirts that were made in Spain and Portugal and available from any of the shops in the industrial malls along Swiss autoroutes. He was not banker, but possibly a functionary or skilled laborer with middle class sensibilities. It should be noted that was he not dressed as a long route backpacker, as his new white Adidas and trendy bomber type jacket attest. He was did not need to sleep rough, and likely stayed at inexpensive hotels, or even hostels.

Much has been made of his supposed “other” ethnicity. I’m not sorry to say that he looks no different than many Swiss or French or Northern Italian people I’ve encountered. I see typical Caucasian features on a young man with dark hair. As you’ve noted prolonged exposure in water causes sloughing of the skin, the epidermis actually peeling away from the dermis. Perhaps this is why the hair appears longer and darker on the head and upper body. As I noted earlier, the skin and hair on the decedent’s abdomen do not, to my eye, show the same degree of deterioration.

Back to the origin theory: For whatever reason, Malibu John Doe set out from his home and family, probably traveling solo for all or most of his journey. We know from Jella’s experience that one can only get the Swiss coins found in his possession by being in the country itself. Could he have originated in a neighboring county and made his currency exchange in Switzerland? Yes, but why? The CHF was not particularly strong in 1985, the USD was more than twice in exchange. Sticking with simplest, this Doe left his home alone, probably from one of the smaller Swiss villages with a considerable amount of native currency.

If, as Jella tells us, Swiss citizens did not regularly choose the U.S. as a vacation destination, any number of reasons could have brought him to the Southern California coastline. He could have been passing through on his way somewhere else. It’s possible he had a skill set that made him highly employable in the U.S., say, California creameries seeking master cheese-makers. He could have received an advance to travel, or had been well paid for work on a previous project. Perhaps he was carrying his savings in cash as he was considering immigration to Canada, or less likely the U.S.

In truth, we really don’t know what his plans were, or even if he was staying close to where his body was found. In my opinion, Malibu John Doe did not fall off a pier or commit suicide. The most likely scenario was that he taken by force by persons unknown to the then-deserted area of beach where his body was eventually found, at some point assaulted and robbed, and his death was the result of those crimes. I believe that he died on, or close by the shoreline. was a high probability that the perpetrators were armed.

Here is what I think is the supporting evidence for that scenario. Why not suicide? While it’s true that suicide is often an impulsive act and there are never any absolutes, I don’t think that the Doe killed himself because he was found with that large amount of cash. He had plans for that money, and already traveled quite a distance carrying it. He had taken precautions and good care of it until his death.

Any savvy traveler knows to keep valuables separately on your person and in any bags or packs you carry. Pickpockets are a scourge in crowded European cities, so men know not to carry their wallets or valuables in back pants pockets. MJD probably had his wallet in his left front jeans pocket and had taken the extra step of securing it to his belt loop with a light chain. Wallet chains have come and gone as a fashion statement, but there is no argument that even a lightweight chain could add a bit of security in terms of not losing one’s wallet during your regular activities. The security factor becomes questionable in the face of an armed robbery, even more so when the chain, worn outside the pocket appears to of a fine gold jewelry quality. In any regard, the gold chain and accompanying wallet did part of the job - picking them off could have been a decoy against thieves finding the bigger haul, the stuffed-to-bursting money bag reportedly found in the Doe’s right front jeans pocket.

We like the idea that the money pouch was either a purchased handicraft, but more likely, it was lovingly sewn by someone in MJD’s family. Maybe not explicitly for this trip, but purposed for the task. There are several commercial versions of devices one can employ to safeguard valuables while traveling. I’ve personally owned two of these three.

The first is an actual money belt. It is worn around the waist and under a layer of clothing. It doesn’t fit that much before it starts being bulky. The more practical is the waist or Fanny pack. Usually an item of derision as a non-fashion statement, nothing says “tourist” louder than these packs. They did have their time in the ‘80’s though, and I bought a folkloric one in Switzerland that I still wear today (cows and edelweiss lol). If our Doe did wear one of these in addition to the items in his pockets, this is possible where he had stashed his passport.

I believe that there is evidence that our Doe was using some version of the next two security devices, albeit homemade versions thereof. First is the so-called neck pouch, which is just what it sounds like. Commercially made ones consist of a satiny pouch that hangs about to mid-chest suspended by a narrow flat band that goes around the neck. I had one with a pouch large enough for little more than a passport and it wasn’t useful for long. It kept getting twisted up and eventually the strap broke. I believe that Malibu John Doe was wearing a homemade version of just such a pouch. The large plastic bag was probably not part of the original design, but possibly he had to improvise. Just with his “sock stash.” Yes, there are commercial versions of little zipper pockets that can be attached inside a sock. I think a possible explanation for the looped cloth attached to the sock is that MJD had at some point improvised a similar method to hide some of his valuables. It doesn’t look like any of that attached material was visible outside of his pants leg when his body was found, so perhaps it was disused at the time. It is possible that the Doe did have some belongings in the white bag, which were either stolen or eroded out from the action of waves and sand.
How it things might have ended for our Doe. To be continued…
 
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  • #212
There's quite a bit of margin of error in measuring the height of a deceased person. Stretched out on the autopsy table isn't the same as standing in a doctor's office getting measured. If the height has been estimated based on the length of the long bones of the arms and legs, there's even more room for error.

So it's common to use +/-2 inches when comparing to a missing person.
 
  • #213
Thanks for this, @Jella, as I was planning on asking you to expand on your experience with these types of money bags.
You mentioned handmade and that set off the bells that were already ringing in my mind, as I recognize that type of craftsmanship.

As I might have mentioned previously, I met and married a Swiss man in the late ‘80’s. My husband, who would have been the same age as our UID, was a self-described ‘small farmer boy’ who grew up lower middle class on a small farm in the Swiss Jura.

As a youth my husband was determined to break what he felt was his preordained future as a small town fromager and set out to see the world. Amidst his first several years of travel he acquired a unique skillset that allowed him to open a boutique shop in Berkeley CA, which was were we met.

I remember meeting his mother when he took me to what remained of the family farm in Les Ponts-de-Martel. Out of early necessity, my belle-mère was prolific with the needle, creating her family’s clothing, and later she crafted for pleasure. She made many little gifts for her grandchildren, and early on for me she sewed a little velvet and satin jewelry pouch that shares similarities with the one found with Malibu John Doe.

In my final (hopefully) long-winded opus, I want to just pull some threads together to paint a very broad picture of who this Doe might have been, and what could have happened to cause his death. Let me say that 99% of these ideas were brought up much earlier in the thread by other Sleuthers, so I am just building my observations on your insights and other people’s ideas.

In my opinion, and by what supporting evidence I can glean from the photos, the earliest and simplest version of the Doe’s identity and the events leading to his demise holds the most water.

I believe that our UID was a Swiss citizen who came from a relatively modest background. His social class has been deduced from the clothing he was wearing, jeans and T-shirts that were made in Spain and Portugal and available from any of the shops in the industrial malls along Swiss autoroutes. He was not banker, but possibly a functionary or skilled laborer with middle class sensibilities. It should be noted that was he not dressed as a long route backpacker, as his new white Adidas and trendy bomber type jacket attest. He was did not need to sleep rough, and likely stayed at inexpensive hotels, or even hostels.

Much has been made of his supposed “other” ethnicity. I’m not sorry to say that he looks no different than many Swiss or French or Northern Italian people I’ve encountered. I see typical Caucasian features on a young man with dark hair. As you’ve noted prolonged exposure in water causes sloughing of the skin, the epidermis actually peeling away from the dermis. Perhaps this is why the hair appears longer and darker on the head and upper body. As I noted earlier, the skin and hair on the decedent’s abdomen do not, to my eye, show the same degree of deterioration.

Back to the origin theory: For whatever reason, Malibu John Doe set out from his home and family, probably traveling solo for all or most of his journey. We know from Jella’s experience that one can only get the Swiss coins found in his possession by being in the country itself. Could he have originated in a neighboring county and made his currency exchange in Switzerland? Yes, but why? The CHF was not particularly strong in 1985, the USD was more than twice in exchange. Sticking with simplest, this Doe left his home alone, probably from one of the smaller Swiss villages with a considerable amount of native currency.

If, as Jella tells us, Swiss citizens did not regularly choose the U.S. as a vacation destination, any number of reasons could have brought him to the Southern California coastline. He could have been passing through on his way somewhere else. It’s possible he had a skill set that made him highly employable in the U.S., say, California creameries seeking master cheese-makers. He could have received an advance to travel, or had been well paid for work on a previous project. Perhaps he was carrying his savings in cash as he was considering immigration to Canada, or less likely the U.S.

In truth, we really don’t know what his plans were, or even if he was staying close to where his body was found. In my opinion, Malibu John Doe did not fall off a pier or commit suicide. The most likely scenario was that he taken by force by persons unknown to the then-deserted area of beach where his body was eventually found, at some point assaulted and robbed, and his death was the result of those crimes. I believe that he died on, or close by the shoreline. was a high probability that the perpetrators were armed.

Here is what I think is the supporting evidence for that scenario. Why not suicide? While it’s true that suicide is often an impulsive act and there are never any absolutes, I don’t think that the Doe killed himself because he was found with that large amount of cash. He had plans for that money, and already traveled quite a distance carrying it. He had taken precautions and good care of it until his death.

Any savvy traveler knows to keep valuables separately on your person and in any bags or packs you carry. Pickpockets are a scourge in crowded European cities, so men know not to carry their wallets or valuables in back pants pockets. MJD probably had his wallet in his left front jeans pocket and had taken the extra step of securing it to his belt loop with a light chain. Wallet chains have come and gone as a fashion statement, but there is no argument that even a lightweight chain could add a bit of security in terms of not losing one’s wallet during your regular activities. The security factor becomes questionable in the face of an armed robbery, even more so when the chain, worn outside the pocket appears to of a fine gold jewelry quality. In any regard, the gold chain and accompanying wallet did part of the job - picking them off could have been a decoy against thieves finding the bigger haul, the stuffed-to-bursting money bag reportedly found in the Doe’s right front jeans pocket.

We like the idea that the money pouch was either a purchased handicraft, but more likely, it was lovingly sewn by someone in MJD’s family. Maybe not explicitly for this trip, but purposed for the task. There are several commercial versions of devices one can employ to safeguard valuables while traveling. I’ve personally owned two of these three.

The first is an actual money belt. It is worn around the waist and under a layer of clothing. It doesn’t fit that much before it starts being bulky. The more practical is the waist or Fanny pack. Usually an item of derision as a non-fashion statement, nothing says “tourist” louder than these packs. They did have their time in the ‘80’s though, and I bought a folkloric one in Switzerland that I still wear today (cows and edelweiss lol). If our Doe did wear one of these in addition to the items in his pockets, this is possible where he had stashed his passport.

I believe that there is evidence that our Doe was using some version of the next two security devices, albeit homemade versions thereof. First is the so-called neck pouch, which is just what it sounds like. Commercially made ones consist of a satiny pouch that hangs about to mid-chest suspended by a narrow flat band that goes around the neck. I had one with a pouch large enough for little more than a passport and it wasn’t useful for long. It kept getting twisted up and eventually the strap broke. I believe that Malibu John Doe was wearing a homemade version of just such a pouch. The large plastic bag was probably not part of the original design, but possibly he had to improvise. Just with his “sock stash.” Yes, there are commercial versions of little zipper pockets that can be attached inside a sock. I think a possible explanation for the looped cloth attached to the sock is that MJD had at some point improvised a similar method to hide some of his valuables. It doesn’t look like any of that attached material was visible outside of his pants leg when his body was found, so perhaps it was disused at the time. It is possible that the Doe did have some belongings in the white bag, which were either stolen or eroded out from the action of waves and sand.
How it things might have ended for our Doe. To be continued…

I have read and am going to carefully re-read this post before replying to it but I just wanted to thank you for that detailed explanation and for sharing this with us. Lots of elements in this potential scenario could be solid leads. I'll get back at it asap.
 
  • #214
There's quite a bit of margin of error in measuring the height of a deceased person. Stretched out on the autopsy table isn't the same as standing in a doctor's office getting measured. If the height has been estimated based on the length of the long bones of the arms and legs, there's even more room for error.

So it's common to use +/-2 inches when comparing to a missing person.

I did not know that, thanx for sharing this information, I'll keep that in mind.
 
  • #215
Thanks for this, @Jella, as I was planning on asking you to expand on your experience with these types of money bags.
You mentioned handmade and that set off the bells that were already ringing in my mind, as I recognize that type of craftsmanship.

As I might have mentioned previously, I met and married a Swiss man in the late ‘80’s. My husband, who would have been the same age as our UID, was a self-described ‘small farmer boy’ who grew up lower middle class on a small farm in the Swiss Jura.

As a youth my husband was determined to break what he felt was his preordained future as a small town fromager and set out to see the world. Amidst his first several years of travel he acquired a unique skillset that allowed him to open a boutique shop in Berkeley CA, which was were we met.

I remember meeting his mother when he took me to what remained of the family farm in Les Ponts-de-Martel. Out of early necessity, my belle-mère was prolific with the needle, creating her family’s clothing, and later she crafted for pleasure. She made many little gifts for her grandchildren, and early on for me she sewed a little velvet and satin jewelry pouch that shares similarities with the one found with Malibu John Doe.

In my final (hopefully) long-winded opus, I want to just pull some threads together to paint a very broad picture of who this Doe might have been, and what could have happened to cause his death. Let me say that 99% of these ideas were brought up much earlier in the thread by other Sleuthers, so I am just building my observations on your insights and other people’s ideas.

In my opinion, and by what supporting evidence I can glean from the photos, the earliest and simplest version of the Doe’s identity and the events leading to his demise holds the most water.

I believe that our UID was a Swiss citizen who came from a relatively modest background. His social class has been deduced from the clothing he was wearing, jeans and T-shirts that were made in Spain and Portugal and available from any of the shops in the industrial malls along Swiss autoroutes. He was not banker, but possibly a functionary or skilled laborer with middle class sensibilities. It should be noted that was he not dressed as a long route backpacker, as his new white Adidas and trendy bomber type jacket attest. He was did not need to sleep rough, and likely stayed at inexpensive hotels, or even hostels.

Much has been made of his supposed “other” ethnicity. I’m not sorry to say that he looks no different than many Swiss or French or Northern Italian people I’ve encountered. I see typical Caucasian features on a young man with dark hair. As you’ve noted prolonged exposure in water causes sloughing of the skin, the epidermis actually peeling away from the dermis. Perhaps this is why the hair appears longer and darker on the head and upper body. As I noted earlier, the skin and hair on the decedent’s abdomen do not, to my eye, show the same degree of deterioration.

Back to the origin theory: For whatever reason, Malibu John Doe set out from his home and family, probably traveling solo for all or most of his journey. We know from Jella’s experience that one can only get the Swiss coins found in his possession by being in the country itself. Could he have originated in a neighboring county and made his currency exchange in Switzerland? Yes, but why? The CHF was not particularly strong in 1985, the USD was more than twice in exchange. Sticking with simplest, this Doe left his home alone, probably from one of the smaller Swiss villages with a considerable amount of native currency.

If, as Jella tells us, Swiss citizens did not regularly choose the U.S. as a vacation destination, any number of reasons could have brought him to the Southern California coastline. He could have been passing through on his way somewhere else. It’s possible he had a skill set that made him highly employable in the U.S., say, California creameries seeking master cheese-makers. He could have received an advance to travel, or had been well paid for work on a previous project. Perhaps he was carrying his savings in cash as he was considering immigration to Canada, or less likely the U.S.

In truth, we really don’t know what his plans were, or even if he was staying close to where his body was found. In my opinion, Malibu John Doe did not fall off a pier or commit suicide. The most likely scenario was that he taken by force by persons unknown to the then-deserted area of beach where his body was eventually found, at some point assaulted and robbed, and his death was the result of those crimes. I believe that he died on, or close by the shoreline. was a high probability that the perpetrators were armed.

Here is what I think is the supporting evidence for that scenario. Why not suicide? While it’s true that suicide is often an impulsive act and there are never any absolutes, I don’t think that the Doe killed himself because he was found with that large amount of cash. He had plans for that money, and already traveled quite a distance carrying it. He had taken precautions and good care of it until his death.

Any savvy traveler knows to keep valuables separately on your person and in any bags or packs you carry. Pickpockets are a scourge in crowded European cities, so men know not to carry their wallets or valuables in back pants pockets. MJD probably had his wallet in his left front jeans pocket and had taken the extra step of securing it to his belt loop with a light chain. Wallet chains have come and gone as a fashion statement, but there is no argument that even a lightweight chain could add a bit of security in terms of not losing one’s wallet during your regular activities. The security factor becomes questionable in the face of an armed robbery, even more so when the chain, worn outside the pocket appears to of a fine gold jewelry quality. In any regard, the gold chain and accompanying wallet did part of the job - picking them off could have been a decoy against thieves finding the bigger haul, the stuffed-to-bursting money bag reportedly found in the Doe’s right front jeans pocket.

We like the idea that the money pouch was either a purchased handicraft, but more likely, it was lovingly sewn by someone in MJD’s family. Maybe not explicitly for this trip, but purposed for the task. There are several commercial versions of devices one can employ to safeguard valuables while traveling. I’ve personally owned two of these three.

The first is an actual money belt. It is worn around the waist and under a layer of clothing. It doesn’t fit that much before it starts being bulky. The more practical is the waist or Fanny pack. Usually an item of derision as a non-fashion statement, nothing says “tourist” louder than these packs. They did have their time in the ‘80’s though, and I bought a folkloric one in Switzerland that I still wear today (cows and edelweiss lol). If our Doe did wear one of these in addition to the items in his pockets, this is possible where he had stashed his passport.

I believe that there is evidence that our Doe was using some version of the next two security devices, albeit homemade versions thereof. First is the so-called neck pouch, which is just what it sounds like. Commercially made ones consist of a satiny pouch that hangs about to mid-chest suspended by a narrow flat band that goes around the neck. I had one with a pouch large enough for little more than a passport and it wasn’t useful for long. It kept getting twisted up and eventually the strap broke. I believe that Malibu John Doe was wearing a homemade version of just such a pouch. The large plastic bag was probably not part of the original design, but possibly he had to improvise. Just with his “sock stash.” Yes, there are commercial versions of little zipper pockets that can be attached inside a sock. I think a possible explanation for the looped cloth attached to the sock is that MJD had at some point improvised a similar method to hide some of his valuables. It doesn’t look like any of that attached material was visible outside of his pants leg when his body was found, so perhaps it was disused at the time. It is possible that the Doe did have some belongings in the white bag, which were either stolen or eroded out from the action of waves and sand.
How it things might have ended for our Doe. To be continued…
Great suggestions and perspective, @BigKeyManatee . Thanks! I had also wondered if the Swiss bills were in something functionally equivalent to a money belt and his passport or other ID was removed from a more accessible pocket or bag. The skilled laborer and not a long route backpacker analysis also seem spot on. I'm intrigued by the "master cheese maker" hypothesis. But I have no idea how to research that possibility.
 
  • #216
@jellabiafro Do you know if there is a TV-program/site f.i. where people search for long lost family members (not necessarily an official missing person) in Switzerland? Or the other way around an Swizz FB-site f.i. where we could ask attention for this John Doe using some kind of recon?
 
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  • #217
Great suggestions and perspective, @BigKeyManatee . Thanks! I had also wondered if the Swiss bills were in something functionally equivalent to a money belt and his passport or other ID was removed from a more accessible pocket or bag. The skilled laborer and not a long route backpacker analysis also seem spot on. I'm intrigued by the "master cheese maker" hypothesis. But I have no idea how to research that possibility.
I took a brief look around the web trying to find information on immigration trends into Canada or the U.S. for skilled craftsmen from Europe. Unfortunately, I didn’t find anything about the time period in question.

I did see that Canada is apparently still looking for skilled workers, though spec’s have changed, only managerial levels are wanted now. Based on family experience, if the Doe had immigration in mind, chances would be better for him in Canada, or even Australia.
Shortly after receiving his certificate in dairy science (late 70’s) my husband applied for worker visa/immigration status to Canada. When he learned that Australia was paying expenses plus bonuses for qualified Swiss workers to move, he changed direction and dragged his older brother along with him. LSS, his brother still lives in Sydney.

I agree with your thoughts about what could happened to the rest of Malibu John Doe’s possessions. We can only speculate on what else he was carrying with him. I’ve given some thought to possible scenarios that could account for how his body was found, and how he might have died.

If the UID had been mugged locally and opportunistically by a single individual there seems less of a chance that he would have ended up dead. The lone robber would probably have been happy to get the wallet, whatever else was visible, then made a quick get-away. How then did the Doe end up dead, apparently by drowning?

I think that he was lured out to the beach by career criminals who had gained his confidence. He could have been staying just about anywhere in the greater Los Angeles area; and was scoped out as a potentially lucrative mark. His accent would have given him away as a foreigner, he was alone, and he might have been too trusting. While there could be drugs or something else nefarious in his motivation, it could have been as simple as a “friend” offering to take him out to a house party in Malibu. When the Doe gets into the car, or onto the back of the motorcycle, there’s already another guy riding along, and he’s at their mercy.

The thieves drive out to Ventura County and park on an isolated stretch of the Pacific Coast Hiway. They take advantage of the visitor’s naïveté and tell him they need to walk down the beach to their destination. At a pre-ordained signal, the robbers jump him. Maybe he’s shown a gun, or a bandanna is temporarily stuffed into his mouth to keep him quiet.

One or two guys hold his arms, or headlock him while the other grabs whatever is visible, potentially a waist pack, and the wallet he had noticed chained into Doe’s left front pocket. Headlock guy could also have clapped his hand over the victim’s mouth. Maybe the Doe had a Swiss watch to steal, and or was wearing some gold-rimmed glasses that were pushed into his face in the scuffle hard enough to leave abrasions.

The thieves might go through his outer jacket pockets, then open his coat to search its inside pockets. They force him face down on the wet sand and pull his jacket up over his head. They are restraining the victim close to the water line, where the waves are breaking on the beach. One guy kneels on the Doe’s upper back, and leans over to keep his outstretched arms pinned down. The aggressor’s weight and the Doe’s position, his face pushed into wet sand, severely restrict his breathing.

At this point, the white plastic bag is visible from inside the jacket and has the thieves’ attention. They cannot reach the contents because the opening is secured by the fabric neck band. The bag is made of a sturdy plastic and it takes time and effort to claw or chip it open from the bottom.

The assault has already lasted several minutes, and the Doe would be struggling to breath. While one of the robbers runs back to get their vehicles, at least one of the men remains kneeling on top of the Doe to keep him still and quiet. As the thieves flee the scene and leave their victim on the beach we don’t know their intentions. The victim could have been unintentionally smothered, passed out and carelessly left to drown in the shallow surf. Or, knowing that that they could be identified the thieves could carried him out into the water and held him under until he stopped breathing.

P.S. I’ve just started listening to the “Lost Hills” podcast with Dana Goodyear. Anyone else ?
It’s about the seedy side of life in Malibu, and the area’s long-standing “challenges” with its law enforcement. Only on season 1, but I highly recommend.
 
  • #218
The
@jellabiafro Do you know if there is a TV-program/site f.i. where people search for long lost family members (not necessarily an official missing person) in Switzerland? Or the other way around an Swizz FB-site f.i. where we could ask attention for this John Doe using some kind of recon?

There are none for now but it's in progress :)
 
  • #219
Thanks for this, @Jella, as I was planning on asking you to expand on your experience with these types of money bags.
You mentioned handmade and that set off the bells that were already ringing in my mind, as I recognize that type of craftsmanship.

As I might have mentioned previously, I met and married a Swiss man in the late ‘80’s. My husband, who would have been the same age as our UID, was a self-described ‘small farmer boy’ who grew up lower middle class on a small farm in the Swiss Jura.

As a youth my husband was determined to break what he felt was his preordained future as a small town fromager and set out to see the world. Amidst his first several years of travel he acquired a unique skillset that allowed him to open a boutique shop in Berkeley CA, which was were we met.

I remember meeting his mother when he took me to what remained of the family farm in Les Ponts-de-Martel. Out of early necessity, my belle-mère was prolific with the needle, creating her family’s clothing, and later she crafted for pleasure. She made many little gifts for her grandchildren, and early on for me she sewed a little velvet and satin jewelry pouch that shares similarities with the one found with Malibu John Doe.

In my final (hopefully) long-winded opus, I want to just pull some threads together to paint a very broad picture of who this Doe might have been, and what could have happened to cause his death. Let me say that 99% of these ideas were brought up much earlier in the thread by other Sleuthers, so I am just building my observations on your insights and other people’s ideas.

In my opinion, and by what supporting evidence I can glean from the photos, the earliest and simplest version of the Doe’s identity and the events leading to his demise holds the most water.

I believe that our UID was a Swiss citizen who came from a relatively modest background. His social class has been deduced from the clothing he was wearing, jeans and T-shirts that were made in Spain and Portugal and available from any of the shops in the industrial malls along Swiss autoroutes. He was not banker, but possibly a functionary or skilled laborer with middle class sensibilities. It should be noted that was he not dressed as a long route backpacker, as his new white Adidas and trendy bomber type jacket attest. He was did not need to sleep rough, and likely stayed at inexpensive hotels, or even hostels.

Much has been made of his supposed “other” ethnicity. I’m not sorry to say that he looks no different than many Swiss or French or Northern Italian people I’ve encountered. I see typical Caucasian features on a young man with dark hair. As you’ve noted prolonged exposure in water causes sloughing of the skin, the epidermis actually peeling away from the dermis. Perhaps this is why the hair appears longer and darker on the head and upper body. As I noted earlier, the skin and hair on the decedent’s abdomen do not, to my eye, show the same degree of deterioration.

Back to the origin theory: For whatever reason, Malibu John Doe set out from his home and family, probably traveling solo for all or most of his journey. We know from Jella’s experience that one can only get the Swiss coins found in his possession by being in the country itself. Could he have originated in a neighboring county and made his currency exchange in Switzerland? Yes, but why? The CHF was not particularly strong in 1985, the USD was more than twice in exchange. Sticking with simplest, this Doe left his home alone, probably from one of the smaller Swiss villages with a considerable amount of native currency.

If, as Jella tells us, Swiss citizens did not regularly choose the U.S. as a vacation destination, any number of reasons could have brought him to the Southern California coastline. He could have been passing through on his way somewhere else. It’s possible he had a skill set that made him highly employable in the U.S., say, California creameries seeking master cheese-makers. He could have received an advance to travel, or had been well paid for work on a previous project. Perhaps he was carrying his savings in cash as he was considering immigration to Canada, or less likely the U.S.

In truth, we really don’t know what his plans were, or even if he was staying close to where his body was found. In my opinion, Malibu John Doe did not fall off a pier or commit suicide. The most likely scenario was that he taken by force by persons unknown to the then-deserted area of beach where his body was eventually found, at some point assaulted and robbed, and his death was the result of those crimes. I believe that he died on, or close by the shoreline. was a high probability that the perpetrators were armed.

Here is what I think is the supporting evidence for that scenario. Why not suicide? While it’s true that suicide is often an impulsive act and there are never any absolutes, I don’t think that the Doe killed himself because he was found with that large amount of cash. He had plans for that money, and already traveled quite a distance carrying it. He had taken precautions and good care of it until his death.

Any savvy traveler knows to keep valuables separately on your person and in any bags or packs you carry. Pickpockets are a scourge in crowded European cities, so men know not to carry their wallets or valuables in back pants pockets. MJD probably had his wallet in his left front jeans pocket and had taken the extra step of securing it to his belt loop with a light chain. Wallet chains have come and gone as a fashion statement, but there is no argument that even a lightweight chain could add a bit of security in terms of not losing one’s wallet during your regular activities. The security factor becomes questionable in the face of an armed robbery, even more so when the chain, worn outside the pocket appears to of a fine gold jewelry quality. In any regard, the gold chain and accompanying wallet did part of the job - picking them off could have been a decoy against thieves finding the bigger haul, the stuffed-to-bursting money bag reportedly found in the Doe’s right front jeans pocket.

We like the idea that the money pouch was either a purchased handicraft, but more likely, it was lovingly sewn by someone in MJD’s family. Maybe not explicitly for this trip, but purposed for the task. There are several commercial versions of devices one can employ to safeguard valuables while traveling. I’ve personally owned two of these three.

The first is an actual money belt. It is worn around the waist and under a layer of clothing. It doesn’t fit that much before it starts being bulky. The more practical is the waist or Fanny pack. Usually an item of derision as a non-fashion statement, nothing says “tourist” louder than these packs. They did have their time in the ‘80’s though, and I bought a folkloric one in Switzerland that I still wear today (cows and edelweiss lol). If our Doe did wear one of these in addition to the items in his pockets, this is possible where he had stashed his passport.

I believe that there is evidence that our Doe was using some version of the next two security devices, albeit homemade versions thereof. First is the so-called neck pouch, which is just what it sounds like. Commercially made ones consist of a satiny pouch that hangs about to mid-chest suspended by a narrow flat band that goes around the neck. I had one with a pouch large enough for little more than a passport and it wasn’t useful for long. It kept getting twisted up and eventually the strap broke. I believe that Malibu John Doe was wearing a homemade version of just such a pouch. The large plastic bag was probably not part of the original design, but possibly he had to improvise. Just with his “sock stash.” Yes, there are commercial versions of little zipper pockets that can be attached inside a sock. I think a possible explanation for the looped cloth attached to the sock is that MJD had at some point improvised a similar method to hide some of his valuables. It doesn’t look like any of that attached material was visible outside of his pants leg when his body was found, so perhaps it was disused at the time. It is possible that the Doe did have some belongings in the white bag, which were either stolen or eroded out from the action of waves and sand.
How it things might have ended for our Doe. To be continued…

I am going to answer to both of your posts in one, been pretty busy lately and I'm sorry to get back at you so late. I like the potential scenarios because they make sense regarding area/social backgrounds/etc

I am pretty sure his pouch never was found because his shirts and jacket were XL sized and would hide his waist and be long enough so it's not something you'd suspect.
The wallet could indeed be attached to the golden chain (it was golden metal but not actual gold), he could also have had an old school watch.. you mentionned a fanny pack and it could be a lead for where his passport must have been, as well as maybe some other valuables. Maybe he had some kind of small bag with wallet/camera/passport and this got robbed from him.

I also have another potential lead :
Been doing a bit of research on several subreddits and it appears that "Larri Jeans" which is a lame copy of "Lois Jeans" started their business in early 84 and were only licensed to export at the end of the same year. They stopped producing the jeans in 97 but it is possible that the export didn't have time to reach switzerland in 85. Therefore, the gentleman could be of spanish descent which could match his physique, the spanish/portuguese made clothes, and the biased investigation around potential swiss missing citizens in California. Also, it's easier to travel to California when you speak spanish. (Not everyone in Switzerland learns in english at school, there's a weird elitist system that wouldn't allow everyone to attend the same classes, depending on a some grades average).This could indicate a working class background especially if he came from a spanish family who were working class people in their majority here. He could be from a second generation of spanish migrants, for example.

But there's something that is bothering me. I have come accross 2 different cases of missing persons in or from Switzerland in the 80's.

One was Jean Python, and despite the rule out on namus, it seems his family never was contacted by the US authorities to verify if this Doe was Jean. Important : Jean Python has probably committed suicide in an artificial lake located near a hydroelectric dam with active turbines, which is probably the reason his body was never found.

The second and most disturbing case is the one of a swiss citizen of italian descent who vanished from New York in late 83. He was almost a matching profile. He was last seen in Los Angeles in may 1985 and his mother went to seek the LAPD's help. His mother searched for him until the day she died. I met with the man's sister and she told me the family never got contacted about that (which could mean he was ruled out without any need of the family's identification) But it wasn't in the folder at the archives anyways.

There is no trace of communication related to John Doe in the consular affairs folders at the swiss federal archives. If a connection had been made it would have to be there somewhere and I haven't found it.

I wonder how this whole investigation took place and what kind of international cooperation was put in motion, if there ever has been any.

NB : will check out the Lost Hills podcast ! Thanx !
 
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  • #220
I am going to answer to both of your posts in one, been pretty busy lately and I'm sorry to get back at you so late. I like the potential scenarios because they make sense regarding area/social backgrounds/etc

I am pretty sure his pouch never was found because his shirts and jacket were XL sized and would hide his waist and be long enough so it's not something you'd suspect.
The wallet could indeed be attached to the golden chain (it was golden metal but not actual gold), he could also have had an old school watch.. you mentionned a fanny pack and it could be a lead for where his passport must have been, as well as maybe some other valuables. Maybe he had some kind of small bag with wallet/camera/passport and this got robbed from him.

I also have another potential lead :
Been doing a bit of research on several subreddits and it appears that "Larri Jeans" which is a lame copy of "Lois Jeans" started their business in early 84 and were only licensed to export at the end of the same year. They stopped producing the jeans in 97 but it is possible that the export didn't have time to reach switzerland in 85. Therefore, the gentleman could be of spanish descent which could match his physique, the spanish/portuguese made clothes, and the biased investigation around potential swiss missing citizens in California. Also, it's easier to travel to California when you speak spanish. (Not everyone in Switzerland learns in english at school, there's a weird elitist system that wouldn't allow everyone to attend the same classes, depending on a some grades average).This could indicate a working class background especially if he came from a spanish family who were working class people in their majority here. He could be from a second generation of spanish migrants, for example.

But there's something that is bothering me. I have come accross 2 different cases of missing persons in or from Switzerland in the 80's.

One was Jean Python, and despite the rule out on namus, it seems his family never was contacted by the US authorities to verify if this Doe was Jean. Important : Jean Python has probably committed suicide in an artificial lake located near a hydroelectric dam with active turbines, which is probably the reason his body was never found.

The second and most disturbing case is the one of a swiss citizen of italian descent who vanished from New York in late 83. He was almost a matching profile. He was last seen in Los Angeles in may 1985 and his mother went to seek the LAPD's help. His mother searched for him until the day she died. I met with the man's sister and she told me the family never got contacted about that (which could mean he was ruled out without any need of the family's identification) But it wasn't in the folder at the archives anyways.

There is no trace of communication related to John Doe in the consular affairs folders at the swiss federal archives. If a connection had been made it would have to be there somewhere and I haven't found it.

I wonder how this whole investigation took place and what kind of international cooperation was put in motion, if there ever has been any.

NB : will check out the Lost Hills podcast ! Thanx !

I took a brief look around the web trying to find information on immigration trends into Canada or the U.S. for skilled craftsmen from Europe. Unfortunately, I didn’t find anything about the time period in question.

I did see that Canada is apparently still looking for skilled workers, though spec’s have changed, only managerial levels are wanted now. Based on family experience, if the Doe had immigration in mind, chances would be better for him in Canada, or even Australia.
Shortly after receiving his certificate in dairy science (late 70’s) my husband applied for worker visa/immigration status to Canada. When he learned that Australia was paying expenses plus bonuses for qualified Swiss workers to move, he changed direction and dragged his older brother along with him. LSS, his brother still lives in Sydney.

I agree with your thoughts about what could happened to the rest of Malibu John Doe’s possessions. We can only speculate on what else he was carrying with him. I’ve given some thought to possible scenarios that could account for how his body was found, and how he might have died.

If the UID had been mugged locally and opportunistically by a single individual there seems less of a chance that he would have ended up dead. The lone robber would probably have been happy to get the wallet, whatever else was visible, then made a quick get-away. How then did the Doe end up dead, apparently by drowning?

I think that he was lured out to the beach by career criminals who had gained his confidence. He could have been staying just about anywhere in the greater Los Angeles area; and was scoped out as a potentially lucrative mark. His accent would have given him away as a foreigner, he was alone, and he might have been too trusting. While there could be drugs or something else nefarious in his motivation, it could have been as simple as a “friend” offering to take him out to a house party in Malibu. When the Doe gets into the car, or onto the back of the motorcycle, there’s already another guy riding along, and he’s at their mercy.

The thieves drive out to Ventura County and park on an isolated stretch of the Pacific Coast Hiway. They take advantage of the visitor’s naïveté and tell him they need to walk down the beach to their destination. At a pre-ordained signal, the robbers jump him. Maybe he’s shown a gun, or a bandanna is temporarily stuffed into his mouth to keep him quiet.

One or two guys hold his arms, or headlock him while the other grabs whatever is visible, potentially a waist pack, and the wallet he had noticed chained into Doe’s left front pocket. Headlock guy could also have clapped his hand over the victim’s mouth. Maybe the Doe had a Swiss watch to steal, and or was wearing some gold-rimmed glasses that were pushed into his face in the scuffle hard enough to leave abrasions.

The thieves might go through his outer jacket pockets, then open his coat to search its inside pockets. They force him face down on the wet sand and pull his jacket up over his head. They are restraining the victim close to the water line, where the waves are breaking on the beach. One guy kneels on the Doe’s upper back, and leans over to keep his outstretched arms pinned down. The aggressor’s weight and the Doe’s position, his face pushed into wet sand, severely restrict his breathing.

At this point, the white plastic bag is visible from inside the jacket and has the thieves’ attention. They cannot reach the contents because the opening is secured by the fabric neck band. The bag is made of a sturdy plastic and it takes time and effort to claw or chip it open from the bottom.

The assault has already lasted several minutes, and the Doe would be struggling to breath. While one of the robbers runs back to get their vehicles, at least one of the men remains kneeling on top of the Doe to keep him still and quiet. As the thieves flee the scene and leave their victim on the beach we don’t know their intentions. The victim could have been unintentionally smothered, passed out and carelessly left to drown in the shallow surf. Or, knowing that that they could be identified the thieves could carried him out into the water and held him under until he stopped breathing.

P.S. I’ve just started listening to the “Lost Hills” podcast with Dana Goodyear. Anyone else ?
It’s about the seedy side of life in Malibu, and the area’s long-standing “challenges” with its law enforcement. Only on season 1, but I highly recommend.

You have a wonderful way, representing things. It really comes to life. Of course we are not sure it went like this, but great theories and imagination.
 

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