I think it should actually be NL, for Netherlands. Heineken is a Dutch beer.
CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86
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I think it should actually be NL, for Netherlands. Heineken is a Dutch beer.
Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and has been for decades. It is known for it's money and banking industries. The wages in Switzerland are very nice. They're well paid. Most Swiss can easily afford to travel, even at a young age. Money is no problem. This was the case back in the 1980s too.
I'm thinking maybe he was a young banker, who came for pleasure and leisure. He was dressed that way.
He had a lot of cash, as that was king in the 80s, and I think he was still quite early on in his trip, as he hadn't changed all his Swiss francs into US dollars. He was changing smaller sums as he needed it.
I'm thinking he was on a solo trip. Just himself. No others.
As for a bag, I'm thinking that may have ended up in the ocean too, and just sank and disappeared. He, his body being full of air, washed in.
MOO.
"... Black long sleeved Michael Jackson shirt-Size L and "made in Portugal" A white short sleeve polo-shirt with the logo "Heineken Beer" over the left chest. The label says "Especially made for Heinekens EL" . This shirt was also made in Portugal. Light blue jeans with teh name "Larri" on the waist buttons and a lable that read "Manager-Madrid-Larri"...
excerpt from NAMUS. JMOs:
1. JMO the writing on the label for the polo shirt is poor English. It would make better sense to write, "Made Specially for Heineken". The English word 'special' in both Spanish and Portuguese is 'especial'. This use of the related English 'especially' just sounds wrong. One could say "Specially Made for Heineken" in English but it sounds better with the adverb after, a subtle difference. 'Heineken' is also misspelled with the plural or incorrect possessive letter 's'. So my overall impression is that the polo shirt is cheaply manufactured knockoff clothing. I wonder if the 'EL' is more of the same, sloppy manufacturing, and it simply means "extra large" where the usual 'X' was replaced with an 'E'. Spanish, Portuguese and English all use the word 'extra'. His other shirt is marked 'L' for large so why is there no size mark on this one?
2. International coat sizes for men are very confusing. A US/UK 46 is apparently very large, 2XL or XXL. But an EU 46 is a small S. Does anyone understand this better?
3. Since 3 pieces of clothing came from Portugal, Portugal and Spain, these items were likely acquired there. To me, he looks entirely Iberian peninsula - Portugal, Spain, Basque, Andorran, French.
4. The Euro currency did not exist in 1986. ATM cards notoriously did not work bank-to-bank, state-to-state, let alone in a foreign country. Back then, Visa and MasterCard were country by country and one or the other might not have a contract in any given country, so you needed one of each to travel high-end. I went to Europe with no credit card, no working ATM card in the 80s. I took some USA dollars and mostly traveler's checks.
Wherever he originated, this young man may have thought Swiss francs were the the most stable, exchangeable currency. Andorra is very wealthy. Would an Andorran young man wear clothing from Portugal and Spain but travel with Swiss francs? I don't know.
5. There was quite a bit of unrest in Europe in the 1980s. Red Brigades in Italy, ethnic Turks bombing clubs in Germany, many riots in the UK, multiple revolutionary and independence factions in Spain and Basque country. Could this young man have been escaping a group, or sent away by his family to save him for fear of violence?
6. He is uncircumcised so he is most likely NOT Jewish or Muslim, but rather from a predominantly Christian country that is not the USA (60% circumsized). So I am ruling out Muslim Turk from Germany; Algerian, Moroccan (easy crossing to Spain/Portugal); and Iranian (lots of families sending young men to anywhere else they could find asylum back then); but Lebanese Christian is possible (Beirut bombing, unrest).
7. a) Could he be from Brazil? Brazil has closer ties to Portugal.
b) Is he a spy? Are all of his items a ruse, and he is a Russian spy who failed in his mission. The Russian Jason Bourne.
c) Was he trying to enter the USA illegally without ID or passport? Maybe he had even more money in his bag, someone stole it and threw him overboard.
8. It is very strange that no family, no parent, was looking for someone so young, especially if he was wealthy or a legitimate university student.
9. The currents off California vary and the water is cold; 15 minutes to hypothermia death in winter. The usual winter current is N-to-S bringing cold water from Alaska (North Pacific Drift/Alaska current). Sometimes that reverses and warmer water flows S-to-N from Mexico (California current). There are huge numbers of freighters coming across the Pacific Ocean to ports in Southern California. The ships tend to aim for Santa Barbara then turn south along the coast for Port Hueneme, Los Angeles Port, Long Beach Port, and there is also San Diego Port. If he fell off any type of ship or boat, it is possible he floated south down the coast in the shipping channel, or he could even have begun by swimming for it from Tijuana to San Diego, or trying to cross the Tijuana River flowing to the ocean, dying then floating north. It's surprising there was no effort to determine the weather/currents at that time to see which way he came from. He did not seem to have been in water very long, but a strong current could have pushed him a very long way quickly.
All JMO. That's all I can think of, just some other ideas, HTH. It's so sad no one claimed him.
excerpt from NAMUS. JMOs:
1. JMO the writing on the label for the polo shirt is poor English. It would make better sense to write, "Made Specially for Heineken". The English word 'special' in both Spanish and Portuguese is 'especial'. This use of the related English 'especially' just sounds wrong. One could say "Specially Made for Heineken" in English but it sounds better with the adverb after, a subtle difference. 'Heineken' is also misspelled with the plural or incorrect possessive letter 's'. So my overall impression is that the polo shirt is cheaply manufactured knockoff clothing. I wonder if the 'EL' is more of the same, sloppy manufacturing, and it simply means "extra large" where the usual 'X' was replaced with an 'E'. Spanish, Portuguese and English all use the word 'extra'. His other shirt is marked 'L' for large so why is there no size mark on this one?
2. International coat sizes for men are very confusing. A US/UK 46 is apparently very large, 2XL or XXL. But an EU 46 is a small S. Does anyone understand this better?
3. Since 3 pieces of clothing came from Portugal, Portugal and Spain, these items were likely acquired there. To me, he looks entirely Iberian peninsula - Portugal, Spain, Basque, Andorran, French.
4. The Euro currency did not exist in 1986. ATM cards notoriously did not work bank-to-bank, state-to-state, let alone in a foreign country. Back then, Visa and MasterCard were country by country and one or the other might not have a contract in any given country, so you needed one of each to travel high-end. I went to Europe with no credit card, no working ATM card in the 80s. I took some USA dollars and mostly traveler's checks.
Wherever he originated, this young man may have thought Swiss francs were the the most stable, exchangeable currency. Andorra is very wealthy. Would an Andorran young man wear clothing from Portugal and Spain but travel with Swiss francs? I don't know.
5. There was quite a bit of unrest in Europe in the 1980s. Red Brigades in Italy, ethnic Turks bombing clubs in Germany, many riots in the UK, multiple revolutionary and independence factions in Spain and Basque country. Could this young man have been escaping a group, or sent away by his family to save him for fear of violence?
6. He is uncircumcised so he is most likely NOT Jewish or Muslim, but rather from a predominantly Christian country that is not the USA (60% circumsized). So I am ruling out Muslim Turk from Germany; Algerian, Moroccan (easy crossing to Spain/Portugal); and Iranian (lots of families sending young men to anywhere else they could find asylum back then); but Lebanese Christian is possible (Beirut bombing, unrest).
7. a) Could he be from Brazil? Brazil has closer ties to Portugal.
b) Is he a spy? Are all of his items a ruse, and he is a Russian spy who failed in his mission. The Russian Jason Bourne.
c) Was he trying to enter the USA illegally without ID or passport? Maybe he had even more money in his bag, someone stole it and threw him overboard.
8. It is very strange that no family, no parent, was looking for someone so young, especially if he was wealthy or a legitimate university student.
9. The currents off California vary and the water is cold; 15 minutes to hypothermia death in winter. The usual winter current is N-to-S bringing cold water from Alaska (North Pacific Drift/Alaska current). Sometimes that reverses and warmer water flows S-to-N from Mexico (California current). There are huge numbers of freighters coming across the Pacific Ocean to ports in Southern California. The ships tend to aim for Santa Barbara then turn south along the coast for Port Hueneme, Los Angeles Port, Long Beach Port, and there is also San Diego Port. If he fell off any type of ship or boat, it is possible he floated south down the coast in the shipping channel, or he could even have begun by swimming for it from Tijuana to San Diego, or trying to cross the Tijuana River flowing to the ocean, dying then floating north. It's surprising there was no effort to determine the weather/currents at that time to see which way he came from. He did not seem to have been in water very long, but a strong current could have pushed him a very long way quickly.
All JMO. That's all I can think of, just some other ideas, HTH. It's so sad no one claimed him.
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I wish we could see the label of the Heineken shirt, maybe it was a counterfeit shirt.
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"... Black long sleeved Michael Jackson shirt-Size L and "made in Portugal" A white short sleeve polo-shirt with the logo "Heineken Beer" over the left chest. The label says "Especially made for Heinekens EL" . This shirt was also made in Portugal. Light blue jeans with teh name "Larri" on the waist buttons and a lable that read "Manager-Madrid-Larri"...
excerpt from NAMUS. JMOs:
1. JMO the writing on the label for the polo shirt is poor English. It would make better sense to write, "Made Specially for Heineken". The English word 'special' in both Spanish and Portuguese is 'especial'. This use of the related English 'especially' just sounds wrong. One could say "Specially Made for Heineken" in English but it sounds better with the adverb after, a subtle difference. 'Heineken' is also misspelled with the plural or incorrect possessive letter 's'. So my overall impression is that the polo shirt is cheaply manufactured knockoff clothing. I wonder if the 'EL' is more of the same, sloppy manufacturing, and it simply means "extra large" where the usual 'X' was replaced with an 'E'. Spanish, Portuguese and English all use the word 'extra'. His other shirt is marked 'L' for large so why is there no size mark on this one?
2. International coat sizes for men are very confusing. A US/UK 46 is apparently very large, 2XL or XXL. But an EU 46 is a small S. Does anyone understand this better?
3. Since 3 pieces of clothing came from Portugal, Portugal and Spain, these items were likely acquired there. To me, he looks entirely Iberian peninsula - Portugal, Spain, Basque, Andorran, French.
4. The Euro currency did not exist in 1986. ATM cards notoriously did not work bank-to-bank, state-to-state, let alone in a foreign country. Back then, Visa and MasterCard were country by country and one or the other might not have a contract in any given country, so you needed one of each to travel high-end. I went to Europe with no credit card, no working ATM card in the 80s. I took some USA dollars and mostly traveler's checks.
Wherever he originated, this young man may have thought Swiss francs were the the most stable, exchangeable currency. Andorra is very wealthy. Would an Andorran young man wear clothing from Portugal and Spain but travel with Swiss francs? I don't know.
5. There was quite a bit of unrest in Europe in the 1980s. Red Brigades in Italy, ethnic Turks bombing clubs in Germany, many riots in the UK, multiple revolutionary and independence factions in Spain and Basque country. Could this young man have been escaping a group, or sent away by his family to save him for fear of violence?
6. He is uncircumcised so he is most likely NOT Jewish or Muslim, but rather from a predominantly Christian country that is not the USA (60% circumsized). So I am ruling out Muslim Turk from Germany; Algerian, Moroccan (easy crossing to Spain/Portugal); and Iranian (lots of families sending young men to anywhere else they could find asylum back then); but Lebanese Christian is possible (Beirut bombing, unrest).
7. a) Could he be from Brazil? Brazil has closer ties to Portugal.
b) Is he a spy? Are all of his items a ruse, and he is a Russian spy who failed in his mission. The Russian Jason Bourne.
c) Was he trying to enter the USA illegally without ID or passport? Maybe he had even more money in his bag, someone stole it and threw him overboard.
8. It is very strange that no family, no parent, was looking for someone so young, especially if he was wealthy or a legitimate university student.
9. The currents off California vary and the water is cold; 15 minutes to hypothermia death in winter. The usual winter current is N-to-S bringing cold water from Alaska (North Pacific Drift/Alaska current). Sometimes that reverses and warmer water flows S-to-N from Mexico (California current). There are huge numbers of freighters coming across the Pacific Ocean to ports in Southern California. The ships tend to aim for Santa Barbara then turn south along the coast for Port Hueneme, Los Angeles Port, Long Beach Port, and there is also San Diego Port. If he fell off any type of ship or boat, it is possible he floated south down the coast in the shipping channel, or he could even have begun by swimming for it from Tijuana to San Diego, or trying to cross the Tijuana River flowing to the ocean, dying then floating north. It's surprising there was no effort to determine the weather/currents at that time to see which way he came from. He did not seem to have been in water very long, but a strong current could have pushed him a very long way quickly.
All JMO. That's all I can think of, just some other ideas, HTH. It's so sad no one claimed him.
Good thoughts, nice write up. Thanks.
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Some of the odd wordings and language used here makes me wonder if maybe the descriptions were perhaps transcribed from a voice recording made by someone else during the autopsy.
That said, the description of the jeans seem oddly specific in the spelling of "larri":
"Light blue jeans with the name "Larri" on waist buttons. The jeans also had a label reading, "Manager-Madrid-Larri"."
I searched pretty broadly for these labels and came up with nothing. That makes me wonder if these were sold in a specific store or locale (Madrid?) that could narrow down the UID's origins. Maybe someone with better sleuthing skills and European clothing knowledge might have more success with these.
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Wow, again, you people on websleuths are just the best. This will probably help a lot.
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There is La Larri...La Larri, but same here. couldn't find anything related to Jeans or the combination of the words Manager Madrid Larri. I thought maybe manager was misspelled and could be something like produced in another language....but nothing....
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Hey. You make so many excellent points, thank you so much for the searching and thinking and writing !
I would say having clothes from Portugal and Spain was a really common thing here in Switzerland back in the 80's and 90's. A lot of fabric and clothes were imported. I had jeans and shirts from Portugal and Spain. I grew up in Switzerland in the 80's.
The spy lead, which I was a little reluctant to consider, is not off the table. Lebanese Christian ? possible. Considering this was the only wealthy enough community to move to Europe during the war (my mom was a lebanese christian). Also, he could have been a swiss spy, we have secret services that are shady af too.
I find it super odd to have found litterally no article mentionning the case, in european press or american one. I have been cruising through archives and all. Not enough closely for now I guess.
About political activism, it is possible too. As you said : red army, red brigades, Palestinian Liberation movements, Action Directe, even Switzerland had a lot of things going on because it was geographically in the center of it. Could've he passed a deal to sell weapons in Switzerland and then suddenly moved ?
About the currents, I've checked the weather and winds that night with data that is still available. It says the ocean was very calm and there was almost no wind, the days before til the 2nd of jan. So I would more aim at the theory that either he didnt know how to swim, either at hypothermia, as you said. Also being drunk/intoxicated you can easily die in the water, even if you're a good swimmer. I heard dreadful stories regarding drowning, even in small pools, when you're under the influence.
About ATM's : as you said, people used it less back in the 80's. In Switzerland, we still travel with a lot of cash with us, and change it by hundreds or so. It's still a common thing to do, Swiss people like using cash and find it more convenient. A lot of my friends don't own a credit card and don't buy online.
I would say having clothes from Portugal and Spain was a really common thing here in Switzerland back in the 80's and 90's. A lot of fabric and clothes were imported. I had jeans and shirts from Portugal and Spain. I grew up in Switzerland in the 80's.
The spy lead, which I was a little reluctant to consider, is not off the table. Lebanese Christian ? possible. Considering this was the only wealthy enough community to move to Europe during the war (my mom was a lebanese christian). Also, he could have been a swiss spy, we have secret services that are shady af too.
I find it super odd to have found litterally no article mentionning the case, in european press or american one. I have been cruising through archives and all. Not enough closely for now I guess.
About political activism, it is possible too. As you said : red army, red brigades, Palestinian Liberation movements, Action Directe, even Switzerland had a lot of things going on because it was geographically in the center of it. Could've he passed a deal to sell weapons in Switzerland and then suddenly moved ?
About the currents, I've checked the weather and winds that night with data that is still available. It says the ocean was very calm and there was almost no wind, the days before til the 2nd of jan. So I would more aim at the theory that either he didnt know how to swim, either at hypothermia, as you said. Also being drunk/intoxicated you can easily die in the water, even if you're a good swimmer. I heard dreadful stories regarding drowning, even in small pools, when you're under the influence.
About ATM's : as you said, people used it less back in the 80's. In Switzerland, we still travel with a lot of cash with us, and change it by hundreds or so. It's still a common thing to do, Swiss people like using cash and find it more convenient. A lot of my friends don't own a credit card and don't buy online.
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Larri Jeans was a common brand in the 80's that was exported all accross Europe. Here it is : PEGATINA DE TEJANOS LARRI
"Manager Larri" was probably just one of the models they were making.
I think they stopped existing in the mid. 90's if I'm correct.
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You're right, he probably was on a solo trip.
Of course Switzerland is and was already wealthy. But I come from there and even middle-class people wouldn't travel to the States for holiday trips, even if it was really fashionable to go there (because of movies, music and sports) when you could afford it. Most of my mid-rich or high-middle class people didn't visit the US before the mid 90's, when flying got more affordable.
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Hey, my answer to this is a few posts before this one. Larri Jeans was a pretty common brand in the 80's, exported throughout Europe
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Hey, thank you for those infos.
You're right, Geoffrey's seems like a place where it could've been easy to fall at some point.
I've tried to read the LA Times article but it's unavailable for europeans, even a subscription won't work from here ; but was able to find it on the Orlando Sentinel by searching for the title on google, so Ima read it right now !
Also, have you found pictures of NYE 85-86 in Malibu ? I would love to scroll through those if you did.
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Totally missed that for some reason....crossed posts...I don't know...thanks. My post came in at 1.21 PM, yours 1.36 PM
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hey, no worries, my answer to your post was to avoid a double posting about the same thing, it's not a crossed post, yours came first, just wanted to make sure you got answered too
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hey, no worries, my answer to your post was to avoid a double posting about the same thing, it's not a crossed post, yours came first, just wanted to make sure you got answered too
I'm not worried at all....thank you for your post. Knowing about the jeans is good.
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I went through the Spanish, Portuguese and Swiss missing persons....I have the feeling there are a lot of people not on record.....didn't find a matching person.
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Probably. Also it's kind of weird, it's on the Bern Police that missing people are listed, but it's not all of them. Seems it's not centralized and I'm trying to get more informations about that.
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I have some general questions/observations to make.
Assuming that having the Swiss francs means that he came from Switzerland, what route would have have taken in late 1985? Was there a direct flight from Switzerland to LAX? Or is it more likely that he had a layover somewhere on the East Coast? Even today, it appears that Swissair is the only airline offering direct routes (there are maybe 1-2 other carriers flying 3 routes).
[The above paragraph presumes that he went directly from Switzerland to LAX. If he was sightseeing in other areas, the information is far less useful.]
Was this person possibly at a New Year's Eve party of some kind? It was speculated above. But why doesn't he have any kind of ID? Depending on the type of event, he would have needed an ID to buy alcohol or get into a club. Nowadays, I know that if you're paying cash for a car or a hotel room, ID is necessary (in this case, an ID could still be in his hotel room or wherever he was staying). When i worked at a grocery store, one time I recall a visitor using her Turkish passport to show proof of being 21+.
At first the description of both currencies mixed together sounded wrong (most people will keep them separate, nothing worse than digging through a wallet while trying to pay), but the picture shows them neatly clipped and held together in the pouch.
Assuming that having the Swiss francs means that he came from Switzerland, what route would have have taken in late 1985? Was there a direct flight from Switzerland to LAX? Or is it more likely that he had a layover somewhere on the East Coast? Even today, it appears that Swissair is the only airline offering direct routes (there are maybe 1-2 other carriers flying 3 routes).
[The above paragraph presumes that he went directly from Switzerland to LAX. If he was sightseeing in other areas, the information is far less useful.]
Was this person possibly at a New Year's Eve party of some kind? It was speculated above. But why doesn't he have any kind of ID? Depending on the type of event, he would have needed an ID to buy alcohol or get into a club. Nowadays, I know that if you're paying cash for a car or a hotel room, ID is necessary (in this case, an ID could still be in his hotel room or wherever he was staying). When i worked at a grocery store, one time I recall a visitor using her Turkish passport to show proof of being 21+.
At first the description of both currencies mixed together sounded wrong (most people will keep them separate, nothing worse than digging through a wallet while trying to pay), but the picture shows them neatly clipped and held together in the pouch.
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It could just be that his wallet fell out of his pocket and is now somewhere in the ocean.
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