CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

[Bit of hope]

Thinking about the Swiss francs......

Although they recently made an end to it Swiss has been famous for their so called banking secret and protection of assets for ages. Due to bank secrecy, Swiss banks were not allowed to exchange data with anyone other than the account holder himself. Bank secrecy, for example, protected the privacy of account holders, but at the same time offers opportunities to evade tax or to accommodate misappropriated money. That is why Swiss banking secrecy has been under fire for years.

Zwitsers bankgeheim nu echt verleden tijd | TaxLive
"The Swiss tax authority, the Federal Tax Administration (FTA), exchanged information about bank accounts with foreign authorities for the first time in late September. This effectively puts an end to the infamous but popular Swiss banking secrecy, which allowed wealthy European citizens to keep their assets with a Swiss bank account out of the reach of their own tax authorities."

Banking in Switzerland - Wikipedia
Swiss banks have served as safe havens for the wealth of dictators, despots, mobsters, arms dealers, corrupt officials, and tax cheats of all kinds.

In 2018, London-based Tax Justice Network ranks Switzerland's banking sector as the "most corrupt" in the world due to a large offshore banking industry and very strict secrecy laws. The ranking attempts to measure how much assistance the country's legal systems provide to money laundering, and to protecting corruptly obtained wealth.

As an American citizen you can still open a Swiss bank account, but it's not that easy anymore and you aren't protected by the old Swiss laws of bank secrecy.

Can't find anything in particular how this all worked in the 80's, but this John Doe having that much Swiss money on him could mean it was "dirty money".

 

[jellabiafro]

Thinking about the Swiss francs......

Although they recently made an end to it Swiss has been famous for their so called banking secret and protection of assets for ages. Due to bank secrecy, Swiss banks were not allowed to exchange data with anyone other than the account holder himself. Bank secrecy, for example, protected the privacy of account holders, but at the same time offers opportunities to evade tax or to accommodate misappropriated money. That is why Swiss banking secrecy has been under fire for years.

Zwitsers bankgeheim nu echt verleden tijd | TaxLive
"The Swiss tax authority, the Federal Tax Administration (FTA), exchanged information about bank accounts with foreign authorities for the first time in late September. This effectively puts an end to the infamous but popular Swiss banking secrecy, which allowed wealthy European citizens to keep their assets with a Swiss bank account out of the reach of their own tax authorities."

Banking in Switzerland - Wikipedia
Swiss banks have served as safe havens for the wealth of dictators, despots, mobsters, arms dealers, corrupt officials, and tax cheats of all kinds.

In 2018, London-based Tax Justice Network ranks Switzerland's banking sector as the "most corrupt" in the world due to a large offshore banking industry and very strict secrecy laws. The ranking attempts to measure how much assistance the country's legal systems provide to money laundering, and to protecting corruptly obtained wealth.

As an American citizen you can still open a Swiss bank account, but it's not that easy anymore and you aren't protected by the old Swiss laws of bank secrecy.

Can't find anything in particular how this all worked in the 80's, but this John Doe having that much Swiss money on him could mean it was "dirty money".

It could be dirty money and as you put it, Swiss banks are the world's filthiest dictators and rascals laundry.
But this little pouch is really typical of people going to music festivals, concerts, that kind of events. the way he was dressed (no brands except adidas, cheap outfits) make me think that his social class was middle or lower. And I still do think this was his travel money pouch, something a lot of Swiss people carry (not the type of pouch but the way to carry cash like that) with them while travelling.

Still, you're right about the dirty money thing ; also Switzerland is in the middle of Europe, Red Army, red brigades, direct action groups were super active and money would be washed there in exchange of weapons/drugs. He could've been some kind of militant.

 

[annpats]

I think you're all overthinking the "Swiss banking money laundering" thing.
The fact he was carrying Swiss francs, just means he was from Switzerland. A tourist. If he were into huge money laundering and dirty international transactions he'd be carrying millions, not just some cash stuffed into a neck pouch. He'd also be dressed differently, and not be in Malibu/Los Angeles.

 

[annpats]

With wearing a Michael Jackson T shirt, I wondered if he was in Los Angeles to see a Michael Jackson gig, but the last one he did there was December 1984. Then nothing until her toured Japan in 1987.
But wearing Michael Jackson T-shirts was big in the late 80s. I think I even had one myself....

 

[Bit of hope]

I think you're all overthinking the "Swiss banking money laundering" thing.
The fact he was carrying Swiss francs, just means he was from Switzerland. A tourist. If he were into huge money laundering and dirty international transactions he'd be carrying millions, not just some cash stuffed into a neck pouch. He'd also be dressed differently, and not be in Malibu/Los Angeles.

Maybe.........everybody is entitled to his/her opinion. We don't know if he is from Switzerland, so stating it as a fact goes a little to far IMO. There is nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities. We should stay away from Tunnel-view. Logically, yes big chance he is a tourist from Switzerland.

 

[jellabiafro]

Maybe.........everybody is entitled to his/her opinion. We don't know if he is from Switzerland, so stating it as a fact goes a little to far IMO. There is nothing wrong with exploring other possibilities.

Absolutely, and I have therefore been looking through missing peoples files in Italy, Spain, Portugal, France and Greece, as well as the US. But in order to rule Switzerland out or in I'm trying to dig as deep as I can. First because I am Swiss and that's the simplest thing to do for a start. If we can rule it out at some point that'd be a small victory too. About the swiss laundry thing, it's a thing but as we said before, it he might not have the right profile for that. Still, as nothing has been confirmed in a way or another there's no shame in looking into all possibilities.

 

[snowgoose]

I think you're all overthinking the "Swiss banking money laundering" thing.
The fact he was carrying Swiss francs, just means he was from Switzerland. A tourist. If he were into huge money laundering and dirty international transactions he'd be carrying millions, not just some cash stuffed into a neck pouch. He'd also be dressed differently, and not be in Malibu/Los Angeles.

Agreed -- the point of shady Swiss bank accounts is that they hide your money overseas. Having a Swiss bank account doesn't logically lead to bringing Swiss francs into the US. I'd agree that he's most likely a tourist from Switzerland or had recently spent some time there on his travels.

Also, a "large quantity" of currency doesn't necessarily mean illegal-business quantities - maybe it's the equivalent of $500 that he hadn't gotten around to exchanging yet.

 

[Bit of hope]

Looking at the PM pictures, I don't see an immediate match, but I post it here to get some other views. Also Royal seems to be Caucasian, where John Doe in named of "other" race. I just thought the combined nationality is interesting.

View Yellow Notices

Family name
SCHURTENBERGER
Forename ROYAL XAVER
Family name at birth SCHURTENBERGER
Gender Male Date of birth 08/09/1965 (55 years old)
Place of birth VANCOUVER, Canada
Nationality Switzerland, Canada
Place of disappearance Berne
Date of disappearance 25/06/1985 (When 19 years old)
Blond hair, brown eyes, 6.0 feet
Speaks German and English

 

[Rootje]

That's what investigators have been aiming at. Portugal was one of the major fabric/clothing export country accross Europe. He wasn't found in Miami though, he was found in Malibu. But still, the idea that he was a tourist/traveller is totally possible

pff, reading is difficult... LOL! the other side of the country

 

[jellabiafro]

With wearing a Michael Jackson T shirt, I wondered if he was in Los Angeles to see a Michael Jackson gig, but the last one he did there was December 1984. Then nothing until her toured Japan in 1987.
But wearing Michael Jackson T-shirts was big in the late 80s. I think I even had one myself....

Yeah, we checked if there was any gig happening at that time but I guess he was preparing "BAD"

Looking at the PM pictures, I don't see an immediate match, but I post it here to get some other views. Also Royal seems to be Caucasian, where John Doe in named of "other" race. I just thought the combined nationality is interesting.

View Yellow Notices

Family name
SCHURTENBERGER
Forename ROYAL XAVER
Family name at birth SCHURTENBERGER
Gender Male Date of birth 08/09/1965 (55 years old)
Place of birth VANCOUVER, Canada
Nationality Switzerland, Canada
Place of disappearance Berne
Date of disappearance 25/06/1985 (When 19 years old)
Blond hair, brown eyes, 6.0 feet
Speaks German and English

Schurtenberg has been mentionned by redditors a couple of times, but I think they are two different people. I don't really think they look alike, but it's JMO. Maybe we could find other pictures of Royal Schurtenberger in order to compare them ?

 

[Bit of hope]

Yeah, we checked if there was any gig happening at that time but I guess he was preparing "BAD"


Schurtenberg has been mentionned by redditors a couple of times, but I think they are two different people. I don't really think they look alike, but it's JMO. Maybe we could find other pictures of Royal Schurtenberger in order to compare them ?

No other pictures found...as far as I could find he is only on the Interpol Yellow Pages.

 

[Bit of hope]

@jellabiafro As you are from Switzerland, is there a central data base for the country or are all missing people still registered within the different "provinces" or whatever it is called over there. Oh yes, I remember Kantons. And were did they hide the "oldies"? I don't only ask for this case, but for all cases in the future.

 

[jellabiafro]

@jellabiafro As you are from Switzerland, is there a central data base for the country or are all missing people still registered within the different "provinces" or whatever it is called over there. Oh yes, I remember Kantons. And were did they hide the "oldies"? I don't only ask for this case, but for all cases in the future.

Unfortunately, I just got the confirmation from the PD Spokesman that missing people aren't reported on the same page like in the US or other countries. They have their own database but it's not public ; also they don't publicly report all missing persons ; cases have to meet some criterias in order to be published on pd websites. We have to go canton by canton for now, until we find someone working there or that can get officially access to these databases, who'd be interested in digging further.

 

[Bit of hope]

Unfortunately, I just got the confirmation from the PD Spokesman that missing people aren't reported on the same page like in the US or other countries. They have their own database but it's not public ; also they don't publicly report all missing persons ; cases have to meet some criterias in order to be published on pd websites. We have to go canton by canton for now, until we find someone working there or that can get officially access to these databases, who'd be interested in digging further.

I was afraid of this......soooo frustrating....but hopes up. So how can you check if LE is working on a case. Are the ones who meet the criteria in the Yellow Pages....it sounds not good to me at all. How many missing people are faded from the public eye over the years.......

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Unfortunately, I just got the confirmation from the PD Spokesman that missing people aren't reported on the same page like in the US or other countries. They have their own database but it's not public ; also they don't publicly report all missing persons ; cases have to meet some criterias in order to be published on pd websites. We have to go canton by canton for now, until we find someone working there or that can get officially access to these databases, who'd be interested in digging further.

Hi Jella,
Are you able to hop on Facebook over there to see if there is anything analogous to The Unidentified Project? Maybe not on a national level but even Canton based?
Please forgive me if this has already been addressed. Just thinking that if any and all such groups could be found Malibu Doe’s profile could be blasted to those pages.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Hi Jella,
Are you able to hop on Facebook over there to see if there is anything analogous to The Unidentified Project? Maybe not on a national level but even Canton based?
Please forgive me if this has already been addressed. Just thinking that if any and all such groups could be found Malibu Doe’s profile could be blasted to those pages.

My French is bad, but here a few Missing Persons pages based in France. (Cut and pasted from my own FB page, scrubbed)

 

[jellabiafro]

No other pictures found...as far as I could find he is only on the Interpol Yellow Pages.

I will check more thoroughly about him

I was afraid of this......soooo frustrating....but hopes up. So how can you check if LE is working on a case. Are the ones who meet the criteria in the Yellow Pages....it sounds not good to me at all. How many missing people are faded from the public eye over the years.......

You're right. Really. There's nothing else to say. I don't understand how the swiss government who brags about being so well organized doesn't even manage to put up a page regrouping all the does and missings.

 

[jellabiafro]

My French is bad, but here a few Missing Persons pages based in France. (Cut and pasted from my own FB page, scrubbed)
View attachment 292218

Merci ! I will check them out.

 

[jellabiafro]

Agreed -- the point of shady Swiss bank accounts is that they hide your money overseas. Having a Swiss bank account doesn't logically lead to bringing Swiss francs into the US. I'd agree that he's most likely a tourist from Switzerland or had recently spent some time there on his travels.

Also, a "large quantity" of currency doesn't necessarily mean illegal-business quantities - maybe it's the equivalent of $500 that he hadn't gotten around to exchanging yet.

The pouch on the picture shows already more than 1500 swiss francs which at the time were at least worth 1000$. But if he had planned a long trip he definitely needed a lot of cash (considering credit cards were not as common as they are today, especially in Europe)

 

[Bit of hope]

About the criteria the Swiss police used to register a missing person.

Recherche de personnes disparues – Avis de recherche - www.ch.ch

Declaration of disappearance
If you tell the police that someone has disappeared, the police will in any case register with the computerized police search system (report). On the other hand, it only issues a public search notice:

• in the case of children and minors;
• when a crime is suspected;
• when an accident is suspected;
• in case of risk of suicide or mental problems;
• when the missing person has to take medication, or is sick or infirm.

The competent police force decides whether or not to issue a public inquiry notice.

You can file a declaration of disappearance at the counter of any police station or by telephone at the emergency number 117.

Can we conclude from this that if this John Doe is from Switzerland went away, being an adult, just to travel (abroad) he doesn't necessary meets one of the above criteria and is probably not registered as a missing person in the official data base. I think searching family will eventually reach out to unofficial missing persons sites, like Facebook groups. Question is...do they go back in time so far. If his family is searching for him (he also could be estranged from them, or they lost contact in an earlier stage while traveling) they might not even know he traveled to America.