CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

[Bit of hope]

I checked The Malibu Times from December 1985, hoping to find some lead about a boat trip or the like. And also some papers from the beginning of 1986, but I couldn't find anything about this incident. There is a section in this paper called "Sheriff Blotter". Maybe somebody else has more luck.

Just some ideas that came to me from reading some of the papers, around the time he was found.
He was pushed or fell of the Malibu Pier
He was kidnapped and killed (In the Sheriff Blotter section someone wrote about 1 kidnapping, no further information)
He was an exchange student, early arrival (in the January 3 paper there is a call for families who want to house a student from Denmark, The Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland or Japan, among others countries.
His boat was stolen and they try to sell it (in the paper of January 3 there was a boat for sale: a Catalina 27.

The Malibu Times

 

[Warwick1991]

As far as Swiss currency is concerned, it may not mean he was a citizen of Switzerland. Many Europeans (and people from other parts of the world) like to have Swiss currency, especially at that time and before. It was seen as a hedge against inflation and fluctuations of other, less stable currencies. The man might have had Swiss currency to have a stable rate of exchange to convert to dollars. Before the Euro, some European currencies fluctuated greatly, and travelers setting out for a long trip might find their currency yielded fewer dollars for exchanges over time. There were other countries with currency problems at this time as well. Portugal had a high inflation rate in 1985 and 1986. Argentina also had major currency problems in 1985 and 1986, and an Argentinian would likely have European appearance. His clothing could have been purchased in Argentina, even if its origin was elsewhere. Just thinking out of the box….

 

[Warwick1991]

With a robbery, the Swiss cash might not have been taken. Exchanging currency requires ID in a bank, and is not necessarily easy. If the man was a victim of a crime, other items easily sold or used might have been taken - jewelry, US dollars, etc.

 

[jellabiafro]

Back to thinking he fell off of was thrown off a ship or sailing yacht. Maybe pirates stole his yacht....just pondering....wouldn't they have stolen the money too. Falling off seems weird without somebody noticing and you would think this would have been reported.

He clearly isn't the type of boat-owning person if we base ourselves on his clothes.
I would more think of a cliff or a pier he might have jumped from (or been pushed) or fell from

 

[sk716]

I kind of get an East German vibe from his appearance. It was the mid 80s, could have been smuggled through Switzerland where he was outfitted with cash and headed off to see the world/start a new life? This would also explain why no one was looking for him, people died trying to get out of E. Germany. It's possible someone tried to find him after reunification, but I don't think they would have gone through official channels.

I'm not sure how he made it all the way to Malibu without buying more clothes. He would have to have entered the America's from the east coast. So how does he get all the way to the US west coast with mostly Swiss currency and Iberian apparel? I don't question how he got here, it was the 80s and nobody really cared all that much.

 

[Bit of hope]

He clearly isn't the type of boat-owning person if we base ourselves on his clothes.
I would more think of a cliff or a pier he might have jumped from (or been pushed) or fell from

I would be careful basing things on clothes alone. I know to many examples where that turned out to be very off.

 

[Warwick1991]

I kind of get an East German vibe from his appearance. It was the mid 80s, could have been smuggled through Switzerland where he was outfitted with cash and headed off to see the world/start a new life? This would also explain why no one was looking for him, people died trying to get out of E. Germany. It's possible someone tried to find him after reunification, but I don't think they would have gone through official channels.

I'm not sure how he made it all the way to Malibu without buying more clothes. He would have to have entered the America's from the east coast. So how does he get all the way to the US west coast with mostly Swiss currency and Iberian apparel? I don't question how he got here, it was the 80s and nobody really cared all that much.

IMO, East Germany is unlikely. It was a very dangerous border, and although people figured out schemes to leave, the usual destination was West Germany, where the escapees would be given assistance to start a new life. The United States still had very careful passport controls in the 80's. I traveled overseas from the US on multiple occasions, and when returning, was carefully checked by passport control, as were others arriving at an airport. Even the 911 hijackers were checked by passport control - the problem was that they were given visas to enter the US when still overseas - the issuing officials at US embassies abroad did not adequately research the hijackers. The unidentified man would have had to request asylum and a visa overseas first. Even the Canada-US border required a driver's license, and people going in either direction were usually questioned a bit before proceeding, even if it was very casual. IIRC they listened for accents. So, wherever he came from, there is probably some record of who he is, unless he was Canadian. There would have been some procedure in the 80's to check who he was, no matter how he came in, unless he entered illegally from either Mexico or Canada. Illegal entry is possible in this case, most likely through the border with Mexico, and could explain why there are no traces of who he was.

A searchable list of tourists or others who overstayed their visa at that time might help, but I don't think there is one.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

I agree with @Warwick1991 that it wasn't easy for Europeans to enter the US in the eighties without some documentation. Apart from where he was found, is there really any evidence that he had ever actually been in the US? Maybe he was trying to enter on a merchant ship and ran afoul of his shipmates.

 

[sk716]

I agree with @Warwick1991 that it wasn't easy for Europeans to enter the US in the eighties without some documentation. Apart from where he was found, is there really any evidence that he had ever actually been in the US? Maybe he was trying to enter on a merchant ship and ran afoul of his shipmates.

I thought about that too, even merchant ships have a uniform. Eastern Europe was a mess then, too The Baltics were a mess, further south there were two nations that were a dozen little countries each embroiled in civil wars. There were a lot of reasons for Europeans to 'flee' to the America's and they all make it kind of impossible to get this guy back home.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

I thought about that too, even merchant ships have a uniform. Eastern Europe was a mess then, too The Baltics were a mess, further south there were two nations that were a dozen little countries each embroiled in civil wars. There were a lot of reasons for Europeans to 'flee' to the America's and they all make it kind of impossible to get this guy back home.

You're right, not likely a crew member. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe he was a paying passenger. Some ships used to take a small number aboard. Or maybe he signed on as a cook or other duty in exchange for the trip.

 

[sk716]

You're right, not likely a crew member. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe he was a paying passenger. Some ships used to take a small number aboard. Or maybe he signed on as a cook or other duty in exchange for the trip.

If he was onboard under the table, he wouldn't have been reported missing if he fell overboard.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

You're right, not likely a crew member. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe he was a paying passenger. Some ships used to take a small number aboard. Or maybe he signed on as a cook or other duty in exchange for the trip.

Good Point!
My husband (Swiss citizen) actually did book passage on one these ships in the late ‘70’s. As a self-described “poor farmer boy” it was an economical way to get himself back to Europe after he noped out on accepting immigration in Australia.
The trip took a long time and of course he had no choice on points of call, but it did fit his budget.

 

[jellabiafro]

I'm not sure the boat is the strongest lead here, but I will try to look deeper. Data is extra hard to gather. It's old and unclear where I should be looking for those infos.

There are many odd points to the autopsy report.

Cuts above the eyes. Symmetrical : "in symmetrical positions on the lateral portion of the eyelids and actually just lateral from what we normally consider eyelid tissue and under the eyebrows slanting 45° forward from vertical are two symmetrical cuts in the skin each 0.8 or 0.9cm in length. "

Do you folks see it on the pictures ? It's quite hard to spot but I can actually notice them now. Someone on reddit mentionned it could be from hitting his face on something with glasses on.

"Heading vertically on the right upper abdomen and running up over the edge of the ribs are four vertical parallel marks measuring up to 8cm in length which appear fresh and probably have occured very recently after he died."

ABOUT THE PLASTIC BAG : You can actually see it on one of the post mortem picture. It was here the whole time but I thought it was some kind of sheet used by the ME. It's a white plastic bag tied with some type of cloth band to this neck. I have no clue what it's been used for, blinding him (I tried to see through one that looked similar, you can only determine whether it's day or night, but nothing more), choke him (in order to kill him or more like a sex thing ?), weigh him down the water...

Whatever happened to him is becoming weirder and weirder. This looks more and more like homicide to everyone I spoke to or exchanged info with about the case.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm not sure the boat is the strongest lead here, but I will try to look deeper. Data is extra hard to gather. It's old and unclear where I should be looking for those infos.

There are many odd points to the autopsy report.

Cuts above the eyes. Symmetrical : "in symmetrical positions on the lateral portion of the eyelids and actually just lateral from what we normally consider eyelid tissue and under the eyebrows slanting 45° forward from vertical are two symmetrical cuts in the skin each 0.8 or 0.9cm in length. "

Do you folks see it on the pictures ? It's quite hard to spot but I can actually notice them now. Someone on reddit mentionned it could be from hitting his face on something with glasses on.

"Heading vertically on the right upper abdomen and running up over the edge of the ribs are four vertical parallel marks measuring up to 8cm in length which appear fresh and probably have occured very recently after he died."

ABOUT THE PLASTIC BAG : You can actually see it on one of the post mortem picture. It was here the whole time but I thought it was some kind of sheet used by the ME. It's a white plastic bag tied with some type of cloth band to this neck. I have no clue what it's been used for, blinding him (I tried to see through one that looked similar, you can only determine whether it's day or night, but nothing more), choke him (in order to kill him or more like a sex thing ?), weigh him down the water...

Whatever happened to him is becoming weirder and weirder. This looks more and more like homicide to everyone I spoke to or exchanged info with about the case.

Wow, I think your are right about the plastic bag seen on the PM picture. I can't figure out why he is found with that....IMO either somebody put it over his head there or he did this himself (suicide). The glasses could be a good theory for his symmetrical cuts. Something or someone could have hit him in the face, while wearing the bag over his head. It's very hard to recognize other bruises in his face from the PM pictures, that I would expect if this was the case. I didn't hear the word homicide yet....I would love to hear a detective's theory on all of this. And also I wonder if there were more incidents like this around that time.

* as an aside; good your tried it out....

 

[Curious_in_NC]

With a robbery, the Swiss cash might not have been taken. Exchanging currency requires ID in a bank, and is not necessarily easy. If the man was a victim of a crime, other items easily sold or used might have been taken - jewelry, US dollars, etc.

You're not thinking like a criminal, which might be a virtue. I expect most criminals would take cash in any currency and figure out what to do with it later. Black markets require no IDs. But I believe there was also US currency found with the Swiss bills (based on first post in this thread. The US bills are not mentioned in NamUs). So I think robbery would have been less likely for a motive. Maybe something far more valuable was taken from him (drugs?) or he saw something he shouldn't have.

 

[Warwick1991]

You're not thinking like a criminal, which might be a virtue. I expect most criminals would take cash in any currency and figure out what to do with it later. Black markets require no IDs. But I believe there was also US currency found with the Swiss bills (based on first post in this thread. The US bills are not mentioned in NamUs). So I think robbery would have been less likely for a motive. Maybe something far more valuable was taken from him (drugs?) or he saw something he shouldn't have.

Or, perhaps it was a result of a conflict that had nothing to do with money - just a burst of anger.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Good Point!
My husband (Swiss citizen) actually did book passage on one these ships in the late ‘70’s. As a self-described “poor farmer boy” it was an economical way to get himself back to Europe after he noped out on accepting immigration in Australia.
The trip took a long time and of course he had no choice on points of call, but it did fit his budget.

I'm not sure the boat is the strongest lead here, but I will try to look deeper. Data is extra hard to gather. It's old and unclear where I should be looking for those infos.

RSBM

I tried to figure out why I even remembered this. I found a Rolling Stone from slightly before 1986 with a half dozen classified ads for work/travel on ships. Village Voice probably had ads like that too. At that time many "budget" travelers also relied on travel guides. Americans might have used Let's Go Europe or Lonely Planet. These guides could have contained more concrete information on who brokered such ship travel. But I don't have any idea what the equivalent resources would have been for Europeans wanting to travel cheaply to the US. At any rate I doubt there are any manifests or records available for those who decided on this type of travel.

 

[jellabiafro]

RSBM

I tried to figure out why I even remembered this. I found a Rolling Stone from slightly before 1986 with a half dozen classified ads for work/travel on ships. Village Voice probably had ads like that too. At that time many "budget" travelers also relied on travel guides. Americans might have used Let's Go Europe or Lonely Planet. These guides could have contained more concrete information on who brokered such ship travel. But I don't have any idea what the equivalent resources would have been for Europeans wanting to travel cheaply to the US. At any rate I doubt there are any manifests or records available for those who decided on this type of travel.

I could look through "Guide du Routard" which is a french equivalent of Lonely Planet. Good call, thanx !

 

[jellabiafro]

You're not thinking like a criminal, which might be a virtue. I expect most criminals would take cash in any currency and figure out what to do with it later. Black markets require no IDs. But I believe there was also US currency found with the Swiss bills (based on first post in this thread. The US bills are not mentioned in NamUs). So I think robbery would have been less likely for a motive. Maybe something far more valuable was taken from him (drugs?) or he saw something he shouldn't have.

Exactly. He had swiss francs mixed with dollars in the pouch and cops also found a 50$ bill in his pocket, outside the pouch.
Either people found his wallet (in which maybe he was keeping most of his american currency) and decided to go after him but did not find the pouch in the end ; either it's a drug story, or as you put it, he saw something he wasn't supposed to see.

 

[jellabiafro]

I have received an email from the Sheriff's office in VC, after my request to get copies from the LE investigation, here's what it stated :
"These records are exempt from disclosure pursuant to Government Code section 6254(f)
and 6255 because they are investigatory in nature and to protect the privacy rights of
involved citizens. Furthermore, Government Code section 6255, subdivision (a) supports
exemption as the public interest in non-disclosure outweighs the public interest in
disclosure."
I will try to appeal but this seems like a process I won't be able to go through without an attorney. Has anyone ever been through that and succeeded in appealing ?