GUILTY CA - Manuel Ortega & others for gang rape of 15yo girl, Richmond, 2009

[believe09]

Could you provide a link that says the first punch knocked her out? Local news (I'm in the Bay Area) has not indicated that.

News reports here say it was the brandy she drank that knocked her out very quickly.

No one has said or reported this, but I'm wondering if there was a date-rape drug involved, for her to be "out" so quickly? Purely speculation on my part and it's quite possible her young system was just not used to alcohol and it knocked her out.

I do hope that whatever the case, she was not conscious for what followed...

I mixed up two stories and corrected my post. :blushing:

 

[Salem]

I hope the news will interview at least 3 of those "bystanders" and ask them why they did not help or report this crime. I can not understand someone's thinking. I think everyone that watched should be charged with accessory. After all, they did help because they did not stop the attack and they did not report the attack and they watched. I believe, in the law, a casual observer can not be charged with a crime because they have no duty to act. However, if they stayed and watched, I would not consider them a casual observer, I would consider them an active participant in an unlawful activity, especially if they laughed and egged the POSs on. It is a chargable crime when you egg someone on to do an unlawful activity. Not to mention I really think these observers should be embarassed and shamed.

Salem

 

[Salem]

I don't know if I would send money to that High School I think I'd rather send it to the family directly. Why is the high school in charge of the money? Most high schools would not get involved in something like that, would they?

Salem

 

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Richmond, Calif. -- Police investigating the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a school dance are finding that a California law may make it impossible to prosecute as many as 20 people who saw the rape and did nothing.

A state statute requires that people must report to police any information they have about the sexual assault of children under the age of 14. There is no law requiring people do the same for victims over that age.

"The fact that our victim missed that age by a very short time ..." said Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan. "It's just very offensive that there's no statute we can use to show that we condemn their behavior."


more here

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=116514

 

[Salem]

If the observers egged the participants on - they can be charged. I think this Police Chief needs to dig a little harder. At least long enough to scare the pants off those cowards.

Salem

 

[Columbo]

I don't know if I would send money to that High School I think I'd rather send it to the family directly. Why is the high school in charge of the money? Most high schools would not get involved in something like that, would they?

Salem

I know what you mean about feeling uneasy about turning your money over to the high school, although I am sure that in this case it would be handled properly. I know that memorial funds (thank god this is not one) are usually handled by a bank. I don't know why the high school is in charge of the donations.

Please don't blame Richmond so much--horrific things happen all over the U.S., even the world. Richmond has a bad reputation to start with so it's easy to denounce it (not that you did, Salem, this is a general statement). I think it's the lack of parental guidance and kids being taught that doing wrong stuff is cool or okay. I think they see movies, etc, of people doing horrible things and treating people as if they were objects, and not suffering any consequences. They don't know the difference between kind and cruel, right and wrong. Even the parents don't !

I'll see if I can find out about the donations. If you watch the video of the students' meeting, you can see there are some intelligent, fine children and involved teachers at Richmond High School.

 

[Columbo]

<snip>

Richmond, Calif. -- Police investigating the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a school dance are finding that a California law may make it impossible to prosecute as many as 20 people who saw the rape and did nothing.

A state statute requires that people must report to police any information they have about the sexual assault of children under the age of 14. There is no law requiring people do the same for victims over that age.

"The fact that our victim missed that age by a very short time ..." said Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan. "It's just very offensive that there's no statute we can use to show that we condemn their behavior."


more here

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=116514

That age requirement is ridiculous !

 

[ziggy]

The main problem here is not that we don't have a statute or law for this, the problem is that we should even HAVE to.

We gotta have a law for everything I guess in order to hold them accountable and culpable - I get that but sheesh.

 

[SleuthyMama]

Oh my goodness, this is one of the saddest things I've ever read. Poor girl! I just don't understand this stuff.

I have a 1 year old daughter and I feel like I'm making a mental list of all the things I have to worry about. I feel like I will never be able to let her walk to school even with friends and even though it is just a few blocks away....I will walk her myself. Now, I will be a dance chaperon whether she likes it or not. I just can't seem to bear all these horrific things that happen.

When I was a kid, my dad was very protective. So much so that my mom would sometimes beg him to cool it, despite the fact that she too had grown up with a very protective Italian dad and two older brothers.

My dad used to show up at school dances a half hour to forty five minutes early and literally drive around the parking lot, waiting and watching. And when I would come out to get picked up he would question me about everything: "Why was Kristin So and So in the parking lot? Who was Karen Do De Do talking to?" and on and on.

This continued throughout high school to the point where after I had graduated from college, I would be out w/ friends at home and my dad would drive by our local bar/hangout. And my friends would see him thru the big bay window and wave and go "Hey SM, there goes your dad!"

When I was a kid it mortified me. When I became a young adult, I laughed about it. Now that I am an adult wife and mother, I can't tell you how grateful I am for it.

 

[Columbo]

There are four suspects in court now. No link yet but it was on KRON-tv news.

 

[Wudge]

I know what you mean about feeling uneasy about turning your money over to the high school, although I am sure that in this case it would be handled properly. I know that memorial funds (thank god this is not one) are usually handled by a bank. I don't know why the high school is in charge of the donations.

Please don't blame Richmond so much--horrific things happen all over the U.S., even the world. Richmond has a bad reputation to start with so it's easy to denounce it (not that you did, Salem, this is a general statement). I think it's the lack of parental guidance and kids being taught that doing wrong stuff is cool or okay. I think they see movies, etc, of people doing horrible things and treating people as if they were objects, and not suffering any consequences. They don't know the difference between kind and cruel, right and wrong. Even the parents don't !

I'll see if I can find out about the donations. If you watch the video of the students' meeting, you can see there are some intelligent, fine children and involved teachers at Richmond High School.

Such warped behavior and minds are not just from poor parenting Columbo, though that is a huge part of the problem. For many a decade, we have been moving to a society with no shame and no God. Without a God, there's no fear of a reckoning. Without shame, any act is acceptable.

Poor parenting combined with a Godless culture and a lack of shame provides a strong base for anything goes. As a detective noted, some of the kids or men they are holding feel no remorse whatsoever -- regards, our slippery slope permissive culture.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Someone had mentioned in a post that they wished they could send money to help the victim (I couldn't find the post). This article has a lot of info and videos; at the bottom there is an address where you can send a contribution to help the victim:

Richmond High School
1250 23rd Street
Richmond, CA 94804

Checks should be made out to "Richmond High School Student Fund" with "sex assault victim" written on the memo line.

Article: http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_13662965

Columbo, I suggest you send the link to this post to Tricia, and see if we can get the info out to the WSrs who might not have found this thread. (In a sticky or something, maybe?)

ETA: I understand about the concerns, re: security/trustworthiness, but I am sure the admins will make up their own minds on that before posting, and everyone can make that decision before/if they donate or not. I would feel more comfortable if it were a national bank or something, but it is likely the high school is just putting it into their general scholarship donation fund, but earmarked for this specific student.

 

[gxm]

Such warped behavior and minds are not just from poor parenting Columbo, though that is a huge part of the problem. For many a decade, we have been moving to a society with no shame and no God. Without a God, there's no fear of a reckoning. Without shame, any act is acceptable.

Poor parenting combined with a Godless culture and a lack of shame provides a strong base for anything goes. As a detective noted, some of the kids or men they are holding feel no remorse whatsoever -- regards, our slippery slope permissive culture.

With all due respect, I'm an atheist, and therefore "godless," and I have morals. One is capable of knowing right from wrong without a fear of god's reckoning. I understand that to the faithful their god is a very important part of their world view but I hope you can understand that one can be godless and still be a morally guided person. I agree that we are living in a culture in crisis but I think that it has more to do with a lack of punishment/consequences in the here and now, as opposed to some future reckoning.

 

[mysticrose]

I have been holding off on posting on this thread because I am so mortified about what happened to this young lady.
I can not begin to try and comprehend such a henious act on another human being let alone join in and participate or stand by and be a spectature and do nothing !
My heart cry's true tears for this generation of kids. As I read here daily and watch the news more and more horrible crimes from teenagers emerge from the daily grind of society.
I feel our youth is becoming more and more desensitized to violence then ever before. These movies that they see and video games they play I feel have a huge impact along with not enough parental involvement in these kids day to day lives.
When your child can pick up a game controller and start shooting it up , rape women , kill police officers, take out entire citie's there is something morally wrong with that picture !
Or when they turn on the TV and sex and violence is thrown in there face on a daily basis making it seem acceptable like it's the norm there is something wrong there as well.
This is the next generation !
I can only hope that everyone of these kids are punished to the fullest extent of the law to try and set an example for other kids to perhaps do the right thing instead of what happened here. And perhaps this will be a wake up call to people to see we have a huge problem starting here and need to try and hit it head on.

As I talked about this case with my husband my 13 year old son was within earshot.
When I stated I could not understand no one coming to her aid or at least calling the police my son piped up and said " Oh yeah Mom and risk being beat up, stabbed or even killed from the group after they found out who ratted". I could not believe my ears !!! Is this the mentality of our kids, being afraid to help because of repercussions ?

My response to my son was " Yes " because it is the right thing to do. That girl needed somebody or anyone's help, it should have never been allowed to go on. Someone could have easily walked off and called 911 in private and no one would have ever known who called.

I explained that feeding into that "fear" of being hurt over trying to help someone is just what these perps count on, and unless people start making a stand for more victims it will only get worse. I said what if that had been your sister ? Would you feel differently then ?

I plan on having more talks with him as I just was in awe at what I heard.I thought such as many parents prob. do that there would be no questioning of what to do in a situation such as this with this girl and to do the right thing wich is help in whatever way you can. I don't believe it can be reiterated enough.

I pray for this young lady and that she can recover fully from this tramatic event, and that her family have strength .

 

[gxm]

Friends of the victim speak out.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/29/california.rape.victim.friend/index.html

 

[Columbo]

Columbo, I suggest you send the link to this post to Tricia, and see if we can get the info out to the WSrs who might not have found this thread. (In a sticky or something, maybe?)

ETA: I understand about the concerns, re: security/trustworthiness, but I am sure the admins will make up their own minds on that before posting, and everyone can make that decision before/if they donate or not. I would feel more comfortable if it were a national bank or something, but it is likely the high school is just putting it into their general scholarship donation fund, but earmarked for this specific student.

WhyaDuck, thank you, great suggestion--I'm not sure how to do this (send to Tricia) but will look around and see--it should be evident!
editing: p.s. just sent her a private message...

 

[WhyaDuck?]

WhyaDuck, thank you, great suggestion--I'm not sure how to do this (send to Tricia) but will look around and see--it should be evident!
editing: p.s. just sent her a private message...

Yeah, C., that's what I had in mind - I'm not sure how else to do it.

I just think people should be given the opportunity to give if they so choose.

 

[Columbo]

With all due respect, I'm an atheist, and therefore "godless," and I have morals. One is capable of knowing right from wrong without a fear of god's reckoning. I understand that to the faithful their god is a very important part of their world view but I hope you can understand that one can be godless and still be a morally guided person. I agree that we are living in a culture in crisis but I think that it has more to do with a lack of punishment/consequences in the here and now, as opposed to some future reckoning.

Whether people believe in God or don't, whatever helps them do the right thing and be moral is okay! I have an atheist friend who I think has a better grip on right, wrong, and being humane, than people I know who are supposedly religious and believe in God. That's not always the case, but I see so much hypocrisy in religion and supposedly religious people that I don't value religion so much anymore.

Maybe following the Golden Rule is the best "religion".

 

[Columbo]

Yeah, C., that's what I had in mind - I'm not sure how else to do it.

I just think people should be given the opportunity to give if they so choose.

Thanks! I don't see any way to give directly to the family...and I'm sure the school will be honest with the funds.

 

[blue_the_puppy]

I am appalled. This poor girl...what has this done to her views of the world?! Being gang-raped while people WATCHED?! And LAUGHED?! No one helped her?!?!

What is wrong with the world today??? Seriously...what has changed so drastically in our society that things like this happen? Children setting other children on fire? Brother killing brother over the volume of a computer? Have we, as a society, lost all sense of right and wrong? Have we lost our compassion for others?

If this had happened when I was in school, I can NOT, under any circumstances, imagine anyone not helping. Maybe I am naive, but I truly can not imagine any of my classmates (even the "bad" ones) not helping.

I'm digusted and heart-broken for this girl.

children are not taught BASIC RESPECT for their fellow human being anymore.
instead, children are raised thinking that they are the center of the universe, and that their own self esteem is the most important thing.

(obviously not all parents are like this .. but you know.)